The Long Hold Support Group

[[Pe...]]

Hello all, I'm in trouble as well during my hold since 11-3-2020. As I experienced no windows  at all I updosed from 9 to 10mg V at 12-22-2020. I haven't had a good day since my hold (and before, ofcourse). Now my main symptoms are severe depression, anxiety, head-pressure and a very tensed body. Most of my symptoms are in my head and mental. Sometimes I don't know what to do anymore. I'm following CBT now, but against these symptoms it cannot do much. My taper went wrong early on when I went rapidly from 15 to 11mg V in 3 weeks. Since then I have been cutting in agony. Maybe I should have restarted the taper then, but that ship has sailed now. I was expecting to at least have a good day by now, but I suffer the whole time. This depression I am having now is so strong, I have never experienced that before benzo-withdrawal. It started at around 11mg V. Before the tapering, V gave me no problems, I was stable at 15mg. It feels like this depression is not from myself, but from the tapering process or the Valium. I don't know. With no relief or progress for months now I think something has to happen, because this is becoming too much for me. Should I go back to my original dose, try to get stable and start a slower taper? Or is there still hope this hold will work? Is it the Valium causing it and should I switch to another long-acting benzo? I have no idea anymore. My pdoc suggested to updose gradually to get me stable and take it from there. I want to be a good husband and father again for my family, they suffer with me. What can I do? I am unable to work. Thanks and strength to all on this board, Pecoro. 

[[Ma...]]

Hello all, I'm in trouble as well during my hold since 11-3-2020. As I experienced no windows  at all I updosed from 9 to 10mg V at 12-22-2020. I haven't had a good day since my hold (and before, ofcourse). Now my main symptoms are severe depression, anxiety, head-pressure and a very tensed body. Most of my symptoms are in my head and mental. Sometimes I don't know what to do anymore. I'm following CBT now, but against these symptoms it cannot do much. My taper went wrong early on when I went rapidly from 15 to 11mg V in 3 weeks. Since then I have been cutting in agony. Maybe I should have restarted the taper then, but that ship has sailed now. I was expecting to at least have a good day by now, but I suffer the whole time. This depression I am having now is so strong, I have never experienced that before benzo-withdrawal. It started at around 11mg V. Before the tapering, V gave me no problems, I was stable at 15mg. It feels like this depression is not from myself, but from the tapering process or the Valium. I don't know. With no relief or progress for months now I think something has to happen, because this is becoming too much for me. Should I go back to my original dose, try to get stable and start a slower taper? Or is there still hope this hold will work? Is it the Valium causing it and should I switch to another long-acting benzo? I have no idea anymore. My pdoc suggested to updose gradually to get me stable and take it from there. I want to be a good husband and father again for my family, they suffer with me. What can I do? I am unable to work. Thanks and strength to all on this board, Pecoro. 

 

Hey Pecoro, so you are struggling so.  Looking at your taper, you really did go fast, and then you kept pushing through even though you were having bad withdrawals.  I know the last thing you want to do is hold, if I am reading it right, it's only been a month and that is probably not long enough.  It could take quite a few more months.  Valium is known for causing depression..  I definitely would not change benzo's again.  Every change you make causes more instability in your brain and central nervous system .  Your main objective now is to stabilize and that can take months.  Updosing is risky.

You really need to understand the issues before you decide to do that.  The reason most fail, is you don't updose to amount you were at the last time you felt okay, but that isn't even a guarantee.  It also can take months to help, or not help at all.  That's why holding at least gives you a chance at some stability.  I wish you lots of luck and hope you start feeling better very soon.  Try not to change anything if you can.  If not, come back and all of us will try to come up with a plan.  Mary!!

 

[[tr...]]

Omg I literally laughed out loud! 

 

What’s the code for murder? 187?

 

“Ah, dispatch we have a 187 here in the ladies bathroom... over”

 

 

:laugh:

 

 

Trying...now that I've read your remaining symptoms, maybe I am a step ahead. Many of those things you've mentioned are rare now for me, but the big remaining one is muscle/ ligament tightness, and if I have to concentrate for an extended length of time my head hurts and symptoms creep up.

Weird thing happened the other day -ate some choc chips and felt weird within 15 min. I can eat pure dark chocolate no problem. So I looked at ingredients...chocolate liqueur instead of cocoa! I mean it was such a trace amt of it!!! So still sensitive - you bet.

[[Pe...]]

Hi Mary, thanks for your reply! I am in my 3rd month of holding now and have made an updose because I did not see any improvements. I read on this forum that it might help. I should have started my hold much earlier because I was cutting in agony from 10 to 9.5 to 9mg V. In fact all of my cuts since 11mg were made while being in agony. So I was suffering for months already before I started this hold. Especially the mental sx are awful. I'm contantly depressed and anxious and that is what makes this hold so hard. I feels like I have no fight left in me, and that scares me a lot. Because of all the suffering I am in a constant state of fear of benzodiazepines and tapering in general. It consumes me totally and I don't know what to do anymore. I never thought this would hit me so hard from all sides. I don't know if holding longer is going to help me if I can take it, but I also don't know what alternatives would. I feel trapped and without hope. Every day is a painful struggle for months now. Greetings from The Netherlands,  Pecoro 

 

[[Ma...]]

Hi Mary, thanks for your reply! I am in my 3rd month of holding now and have made an updose because I did not see any improvements. I read on this forum that it might help. I should have started my hold much earlier because I was cutting in agony from 10 to 9.5 to 9mg V. In fact all of my cuts since 11mg were made while being in agony. So I was suffering for months already before I started this hold. Especially the mental sx are awful. I'm contantly depressed and anxious and that is what makes this hold so hard. I feels like I have no fight left in me, and that scares me a lot. Because of all the suffering I am in a constant state of fear of benzodiazepines and tapering in general. It consumes me totally and I don't know what to do anymore. I never thought this would hit me so hard from all sides. I don't know if holding longer is going to help me if I can take it, but I also don't know what alternatives would. I feel trapped and without hope. Every day is a painful struggle for months now. Greetings from The Netherlands,  Pecoro 

 

When you updose Pecoro, that was no longer a hold.  You made a change , so your Hold started again at your new dose.  Holding means making no changes.  Benzo withdrawal is hard.  IMO, I would hold now as you are.  Your updose probably wasn't enough but you can't keep making changes, so give this one a chance.  If in a few months you haven't improved.  Look at different things, starting a very slow and small taper may help, or looking at updosing again.  The worst thing about benzo's are you never know how you will react until you try it and what works for one person, may not work for you.  I know you are suffering.  I wish there was a quick answer, unfortunately, there just isn't.  I got stuck in my 8's and had to hold a long time , never felt stable, but started a very slow and small amount taper and was able to tolerate it.  Try to distract yourself anyway you can and accept this won't be easy, but you can do it.  We will always be here for you !

 

[[Pe...]]

Hi Mary thanks! I did not know that with making an updose during a hold your have to start counting again. I would love to give this dose a chance, but my pdoc knows about my suffering and would probably want to updose again with 1mg. He sees progress in weeks, not in months. I might have to lie to him about how well I feel in order to stay at this dose. He means good and wants to get me stable but doesn't believe what is said on this forum about long holds and long lasting sx. I will try to hold on to this dose and stabilise, if I can take it. Thanks again and greetings, Pecoro. 

[[Tr...]]

When do progesterone levels start to come back up after you start your period? Amazingly PMS wasn’t bad this month (🤷🏻‍♀️) but cycles day 1-3 have been brutal. Dizziness, illogical anxiety, balance problems, eye focus and distorted spatial perceptions. Jeez Louise. Mercy!

I had SUCH a good few weeks before! Like almost felt normal. Hiked a few times, went to swim team practice! Good appetite, not exhausted.

 

My brain just says, oh it’s going to be terrible like this again from now on. 😩

It’ll get better again, right?

.

Down to 0.11mg of K every 12 hours

from 0.5mg every night (18 month taper so far)

 

[[Ma...]]

Hi Mary thanks! I did not know that with making an updose during a hold your have to start counting again. I would love to give this dose a chance, but my pdoc knows about my suffering and would probably want to updose again with 1mg. He sees progress in weeks, not in months. I might have to lie to him about how well I feel in order to stay at this dose. He means good and wants to get me stable but doesn't believe what is said on this forum about long holds and long lasting sx. I will try to hold on to this dose and stabilise, if I can take it. Thanks again and greetings, Pecoro. 

 

If he insists on an updose, get him to give you enough to make a difference.  How many mgs were you on the last time you felt at least tolerable.  He can't keep giving a mg at a time, your brain and central nervous system will keep being unstable.  You are wanting to be stable.  Talk to him about it, if he insists on updosing.  .  Good luck.   

[[Pe...]]

His idea is to updose 1mg every 2-4 weeks, assess how I'm doing and if its not good than updose with 1mg again. In this way he wants to achieve a minimal dose where I'm stable on. But the timeframe is too short for an updose to work. I was more or less stable on 12 or 13mg if I recall correctly. And feeling good at 15mg. I do not want to go up that high. I want to get stable on this dose of 10mg but the sx are awful. Especially the depression. My pdoc knows this and wants me to feel good. He already gave me Seroquel and Olanzapine to counter the problems which he thinks are not from WD anymore. They didn't work and gave me a lot of sx. I will see him this week and don't know what to tell him. He sees this in his own way  I'm suffering and confused. I'm sorry. Greetings Pecoro. 

[[Ma...]]

His idea is to updose 1mg every 2-4 weeks, assess how I'm doing and if its not good than updose with 1mg again. In this way he wants to achieve a minimal dose where I'm stable on. But the timeframe is too short for an updose to work. I was more or less stable on 12 or 13mg if I recall correctly. And feeling good at 15mg. I do not want to go up that high. I want to get stable on this dose of 10mg but the sx are awful. Especially the depression. My pdoc knows this and wants me to feel good. He already gave me Seroquel and Olanzapine to counter the problems which he thinks are not from WD anymore. They didn't work and gave me a lot of sx. I will see him this week and don't know what to tell him. He sees this in his own way  I'm suffering and confused. I'm sorry. Greetings Pecoro. 

 

You never have to apologize to me  . I am glad he cares about you.  I understand his thought process.  I hope it works for you.   

[[Tr...]]

His idea is to updose 1mg every 2-4 weeks, assess how I'm doing and if its not good than updose with 1mg again. In this way he wants to achieve a minimal dose where I'm stable on. But the timeframe is too short for an updose to work. I was more or less stable on 12 or 13mg if I recall correctly. And feeling good at 15mg. I do not want to go up that high. I want to get stable on this dose of 10mg but the sx are awful. Especially the depression. My pdoc knows this and wants me to feel good. He already gave me Seroquel and Olanzapine to counter the problems which he thinks are not from WD anymore. They didn't work and gave me a lot of sx. I will see him this week and don't know what to tell him. He sees this in his own way  I'm suffering and confused. I'm sorry. Greetings Pecoro. 

Pecoro,

My response may not be accurate bc I read this post very fast and didn't have time to back read but I can tell you if you're looking to stabilize on a particular dose well in my opinion you can get stable right where you are. It's just my opinion and from my own experience. My story is long so I'll skip details but I was in a position where my new Dr was willing to maintain me at 1.5 of xanax but no more and I was suffering so bad I thought I was going to literally die but I had no say in the matter, there was no option of going higher or back up to my original dose at the time. So to the point I did stabilize on the 1.5 but not before going through a few months of absolute hell. It was one of the most heartbreaking and challenging times of my life. I was so ill but much to my surprise I did get better and better to the point of getting pretty great actually. So it's my opinion and only my opinion that you can get stable on any dose.. As for how long that will take well that's where we're all different. We differ in sxs and holding duration times, everyone is different.

So I have to run I hope that helped if I was accurate in reading your post.

Best of luck,

Trishy

[[Tr...]]

Hey Mary!!! I'll pm you later girl!!

😘❤️❤️

T 🐨

[[Ma...]]

Hey Mary!!! I'll pm you later girl!!

😘❤️❤️

T 🐨

 

Hey you!!  Great post 

[[Tr...]]

Treelover you are doing fantastic with the taper, slowly wins the race. And yes it will smooth itself out and this will pass. During the waves the brain goes into overdrive and it’s difficult to see any way out of it but it does settle and you will feel better again. You are doing well so keep strong and you will get there.

 

Trina watching your progress makes me hopeful. I keep wondering what’s wrong with my transmitters and why I’m taking so long to heal. I’m doing everything right and I’m off all meds. Anyway you should try putting heat pads on the tight muscles, it helped me when I had that... hopefully one day we will have chocolate liquor without any issues.

[[Pe...]]

Hi Trishy, your response is very accurate and I thank you for it. I'm sorry you had to suffer so much because of your new Dr. But reading your reply gives me hope I can get through this. I know everyone is different but maybe for me it is also possible to stabilise on any dose as you say. I now regret the 1mg updose but I was so ill and depressed that I was afraid of becoming totally non-functional or bedridden. I am a father and a husband and cannot afford that. I felt I had no choice but to make a change. And so did my pdoc. I want to ride this out and I hope I have the strength to do it. And maybe just like you I will get through this. If I do it will be the first time I stabilise during my taper. Thanks again and greetings from The Netherlands, Pecoro. 

[[tr...]]

 

Trina watching your progress makes me hopeful. I keep wondering what’s wrong with my transmitters and why I’m taking so long to heal. I’m doing everything right and I’m off all meds. Anyway you should try putting heat pads on the tight muscles, it helped me when I had that... hopefully one day we will have chocolate liquor without any issues.

 

Been using a hot water bottle in bed at night as needed, and I'm spoiled bc my van has heated seats..its great relief when things flare up.

Can you tolerate any vitamins yet? I started with small doses or D and zinc...using a liquid version of each bc the liquid makes it easier to control the amt. I've been able to increase dosage. I swear it made a difference.

 

[[ki...]]

This cycle has been relatively easy and I’m hoping this stays!! I hit 1 mg Valium last week so I’m getting to the home stretch! 🎉🎉

[Guest [fl...]]

Hi guys, I just wanted to mention ZRT labs for getting hormone testing done at home. They do a full range of salivary hormones, for a few hundred dollars. It helped me immensely when I missed my period (I think it was due to an accidental dose of progesterone during the first half of my cycle). It showed me that I had ovulated, was making hormones at a healthy level, and that my cortisol was mostly ok (a little high in the afternoon and evening). My testosterone was a bit low, but I figure I can worry about that later. If you have a time when you aren't sure what your hormones are doing, this is a great tool. I am going to try dosing a small amount of progesterone again in the first half of the cycle to smooth out the transition from luteal to follicular. Wish me luck...

 

Treelover, progesterone rises after ovulation. I ovulate on day 10, so I notice it around day 11-12. Most people ovulate on day 14, and would notice it around day 15-16. Just take the humber of days in your typical cycle, subtract 14, and that is the usual date of ovulation. (My cycles are 24 days long, subtract 14 days, and I ovulate on day 10). The reason this works is that the luteal phase is usually fixed at around 14 days, while the follicular phase varies more (a general rule of course). Oddly, many studies show that women feel better when progesterone is lower. This may be because the brain upregulates GABA receptor sensitivity when allopregnanolone falls. In fact, strangely, studies also show that women are less sensitive to benzos during the luteal phase because the body desensitizes GABA receptors due to elevated levels of allopregnanolone (from the progesterone). If you have a wave after the drop in progesterone due to menstruation, it may be that your receptors are just having a harder time regaining sensitivity. This used to happen to me before I started supplementing progesterone (12.5mg twice daily during luteal, 5mg twice daily during follicular though this is risky as it can mess up your cycle in theory). Hopefully, this gets better the lower your dose and once you are off. I am now 16 weeks off, but due to a missed period, I am not sure how it will go this month. I am due in 203 days. My symptoms have diminished greatly - I hope it stays once I am back in follicular!

[[Tr...]]

Hi Trishy, your response is very accurate and I thank you for it. I'm sorry you had to suffer so much because of your new Dr. But reading your reply gives me hope I can get through this. I know everyone is different but maybe for me it is also possible to stabilise on any dose as you say. I now regret the 1mg updose but I was so ill and depressed that I was afraid of becoming totally non-functional or bedridden. I am a father and a husband and cannot afford that. I felt I had no choice but to make a change. And so did my pdoc. I want to ride this out and I hope I have the strength to do it. And maybe just like you I will get through this. If I do it will be the first time I stabilise during my taper. Thanks again and greetings from The Netherlands, Pecoro. 

I know it's so hard. I completely understand your pain going through this. I'm so very sorry. As hellish as this process can be I have faith you'll get better. I've seen so many people here heal after a good long hold and I believe you will too. You hang in there. I'll be cheering you on you can do this. 💪🙏

All the best to you.

Trishy, from the US 

[[bo...]]

ovulation= tense muscles, overly fatigued, weaker  anyone else?

[Guest [...]]

I have very tense muscles, back, neck, shoulders, chest.....

 

When I get close to my dose time, it is very hard to walk.

 

I also just ovulated, I think and feel a lot more calm than I did a few days ago!

I literally feel crazy just before my period, and have akathisia.

The akathisia is awful, especially when it's hard to move and you need to move etc.

 

I tried these pain relief patches last night that really helped, but now my entire back is red and itchy - I guess I'm allergic to whatever is in those things - too bad, as they really worked, although I couldn't stand the smell.

 

Has anyone tried Dr. Ho's pain relief therapy? It's like a TENS unit.

 

any issues?

 

WinnieDog

 

 

 

[[ki...]]

Winnie, I’m sorry you have to deal with akathisia. That is such a scary symptom. Hang in there. ❤️

[Guest [fl...]]

WinnieDog, you should consider doing a ZRT test when you get the akathesia and consider a little oral progesterone to smooth out the transition. I suspect that as progesterone drops but receptors haven’t re-sensitized you are getting a bit of withdrawal from progesterone. Some people also swear by Vitex (aka chaste berry), I know SSR1974 (I think that was the name) used it (she was the Valium C/T with severe withdrawals who wrote a success story).

 

Ovulation was tough for me too but I’m hoping this smooths out the farther out you are?

[[Ol...]]

Hey everyone,

Looks like we have some new members who are struggling, welcome to LHSG, you will find good support here.

 

As I near my year mark off benzos, I have finally gotten brave enough to do the thing that I absolutely could NOT do during withdrawal, which was go to the dentist. I have notoriously bad teeth even though I take really good care of them, and I had dental anxiety even before benzos so I knew that going back would reveal all sorts of problems. Also, during acute w/d it was harder to take good care of my teeth, I definitely stopped flossing for awhile there, and probably didn't brush as properly as I normally do. Anyway, I went in Nov finally after 3 years of not going despite having a broken crown that whole time.. and of course I had 4 crowns to replace and like 15 cavities. Seriously. I just finished my 3rd visit so now I have 1 crown fully replaced, 1 with a temporary, and 11 fillings done in 3 visits. UGH!!!!!!

[[Ma...]]

Hey everyone,

Looks like we have some new members who are struggling, welcome to LHSG, you will find good support here.

 

As I near my year mark off benzos, I have finally gotten brave enough to do the thing that I absolutely could NOT do during withdrawal, which was go to the dentist. I have notoriously bad teeth even though I take really good care of them, and I had dental anxiety even before benzos so I knew that going back would reveal all sorts of problems. Also, during acute w/d it was harder to take good care of my teeth, I definitely stopped flossing for awhile there, and probably didn't brush as properly as I normally do. Anyway, I went in Nov finally after 3 years of not going despite having a broken crown that whole time.. and of course I had 4 crowns to replace and like 15 cavities. Seriously. I just finished my 3rd visit so now I have 1 crown fully replaced, 1 with a temporary, and 11 fillings done in 3 visits. UGH!!!!!!

 

OMg, OK, you poor thing.  I know I will need a cleaning, 1 crown is iffy, and will need a couple fillings.

I bet most of us need dental work after wd .  Right now with Covid, not sure I could get up my nerve to go anyway.  Hope you aren't in a lot of pain.  LY, Mary 🙋🏼🙋🏼🙏🙏😘😷😘😘😘😷😷😷😷♥️