The Long Hold Support Group

[[Va...]]

Baddove,

 

I agree with Lynn and Valley.  You need to take the same dose each day. Once you have decided on that dose, holding at that dose for a few weeks before you start to taper is a good suggestion.

 

Anne

I also agree, one thing I have learned while going through this I have to Accept the Process, it goes as fast as it can, and continual changes is confusing to our Precious Brains, it needs the time to regroup, it is gonna get really confused. I am thinking you want to stay at doseage as advised but the Benzo lies are working on you and I know Valley has literature how this comes in and wants to trip you up. We will be here for you.

I was typing at the same time you posted BG. I must have read your mind. 

[[ly...]]

 

Please, you can move around dose amts as long as the daily total is the same.  In my experience it hasn't taken more than a few days to adjust to the change.

[[Pl...]]

 

Please, you can move around dose amts as long as the daily total is the same.  In my experience it hasn't taken more than a few days to adjust to the change.

 

Thank you so much Lynn.... That is good to know....((.    ))

[[Pl...]]

V- I hope I'm not being too personal... But when you did your 6 month hold may I ask the type of symptoms you were having?  If too invasive, I understand.... Or if you want to pm or not, that's also okay...

 

Some people I know may feel uncomfortable about certain things.... Thank you...

[[He...]]

Baddove,

 

I agree with Lynn and Valley.  You need to take the same dose each day. Once you have decided on that dose, holding at that dose for a few weeks before you start to taper is a good suggestion.

 

Anne

 

Hi bad dove,

I agree with Lynn, Valley and Anne,

However I want to add something. I am a newbie, so I may be wrong but in my opinion,  maybe you should hold for longer than a few weeks? If after a few weeks you find things are indeed getting better, maybe  you should continue to hold at the same dose for even longer, say a few months?

 

I see from your posts that you are really in a bad way, and i am so sorry that you are feeling so badly. Especially with your company coming.

 

it seems, from reading your posts that you have been making many changes overall in short periods of time. 

 

Once a person finds the right dose for one's self, and the consistent way of dividing that  dose daily, it makes senseto me to  hold for a long enough time to get really stable. This of course is IMO, but it comes with good intentions, and  it comes from all that the buddies have taught me about the way to cut and taper and help your CNS adjust with the least disturbance. Holding longer will let one's CNS adjust from the too many and too rapid changes that may have been the reason why a person is having such a hard time. THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME! , and a two month hold really helped me get a much less number and much less severe side effects. It really helped me so much!

 

GOOD LUCK WHAT EVER YOU DECIDE. I hope you get stability in your hold very soon. I am sure thatYOU KNOW YOUR OWN BODY BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. I hope you are feeling much better real soon, no matter what you decide.

Heathcliff

 

[[He...]]

What's  this I read about a Dr Peart saying that a hold any longer than two months is useless for Valium because Valium is constant in your system after two months and a longer hold can lead to tolerance withdrawal? Please some one help to explain and prove this not true. I am so confused. I want to keep holding but really am confused and don't know what to do! I keep changing my mind!

 

I posted a scenario in withdrawal support but some one moved it to chewing the fat. I dont know why. Maybe I offended someone. If I did, I and trulyy sorry!

Now I wish I never posted what I did!

 

I am all mixed up and so scared. I don't want to go into withdrawal tolerance . I thought there was no such thing!

PLEASE SOMEONE STRAIGHTEN ME OUT!

Heathcliff

Hi Heathcliff. I'm a big Reg Peart fan and actually posted that very thing about not holding longer than 2 months when I was a newbie. Good thing one of the veterans here told me I didn't know what I was talking about.  It is true that the plasma levels of the drug have gone down to the new baseline after 2 months but that doesn't mean your CNS has had a long enough time to adjust to that level. Reg Peart was truly a pioneer, but we have a lot more information available since his work as well as Ashton's. Try not to stress about your hold. It's a classic symptom of withdrawal to question holding for longer than x amount of months because the time necessary to pull some out of a bad place due to tapering too aggressively will most likely take longer than 2 months. The anxiety comes because it's not linear and you do experience ups and downs until you finally make it to where you want to be. Trust me. I've traveled the road and know what it's like. Trust your instinct and what your body is telling you. If you still have intolerable sxs, your body is telling you to keep holding.  --V

 

LIBR I reposted the above quote for  anyone who is interested in the above information.

I hope it helps you to see that in the opinion of most of the buddies  ( and now, me too) there is no such thing as tolerance once you are in withdrawal. The side effects you get are not a sign of tolerance, they are a sign of your CNS trying to adjust to your taper. When my sfx ramped up, I held for two months as suggested. It sure did give my brain the time it needed to adjust and catch up. Wow did I improve! I was Not in tolerance.

 

If you want, I'm sure you can ask VallyUm more about it. He is such a wealth of information and has helped me feel so much better when I am confused. I'm sure he will respond. And so will the other buddies.

 

Also, if you look for the post  with the picture of the chicken and the turtle,that VallyUm posts every so often, you should read it. It is very long, but.  Wow will you feel better when you read it.. I read it about once every two weeks. It's great for encouragement and support. ITS KIND OF LIKE MY BENZO BIBLE!

Heathcliff

[[Pl...]]

What's  this I read about a Dr Peart saying that a hold any longer than two months is useless for Valium because Valium is constant in your system after two months and a longer hold can lead to tolerance withdrawal? Please some one help to explain and prove this not true. I am so confused. I want to keep holding but really am confused and don't know what to do! I keep changing my mind!

 

I posted a scenario in withdrawal support but some one moved it to chewing the fat. I dont know why. Maybe I offended someone. If I did, I and trulyy sorry!

Now I wish I never posted what I did!

 

I am all mixed up and so scared. I don't want to go into withdrawal tolerance . I thought there was no such thing!

PLEASE SOMEONE STRAIGHTEN ME OUT!

Heathcliff

Hi Heathcliff. I'm a big Reg Peart fan and actually posted that very thing about not holding longer than 2 months when I was a newbie. Good thing one of the veterans here told me I didn't know what I was talking about.  It is true that the plasma levels of the drug have gone down to the new baseline after 2 months but that doesn't mean your CNS has had a long enough time to adjust to that level. Reg Peart was truly a pioneer, but we have a lot more information available since his work as well as Ashton's. Try not to stress about your hold. It's a classic symptom of withdrawal to question holding for longer than x amount of months because the time necessary to pull some out of a bad place due to tapering too aggressively will most likely take longer than 2 months. The anxiety comes because it's not linear and you do experience ups and downs until you finally make it to where you want to be. Trust me. I've traveled the road and know what it's like. Trust your instinct and what your body is telling you. If you still have intolerable sxs, your body is telling you to keep holding.  --V

 

LIBR I reposted the above quote for  anyone who is interested in the above information.

I hope it helps you to see that in the opinion of most of the buddies  ( and now, me too) there is no such thing as tolerance once you are in withdrawal. The side effects you get are not a sign of tolerance, they are a sign of your CNS trying to adjust to your taper. When my sfx ramped up, I held for two months as suggested. It sure did give my brain the time it needed to adjust and catch up. Wow did I improve! I was Not in tolerance.

 

If you want, I'm sure you can ask VallyUm more about it. He is such a wealth of information and has helped me feel so much better when I am confused. I'm sure he will respond. And so will the other buddies.

 

Also, if you look for the post  with the picture of the chicken and the turtle,that VallyUm posts every so often, you should read it. It is very long, but.  Wow will you feel better when you read it.. I read it about once every two weeks. It's great for encouragement and support. ITS KIND OF LIKE MY BENZO BIBLE!

Heathcliff

 

Heathcliff you are such a gem trying to help out others here with so much feeling behind your posts it comes thru the screen...((.    )))

 

I feel so hopeless because my situation isn't like most ( on here anyway; not sure?)

 

But I wanted to ask you .....I think in one of your posts you said you had shaking and tremors? Could you describe them? How long did they last? Did a hold fix them? Mine is still from ativan withdrawal....

 

thank you kindly..

[[Va...]]

V- I hope I'm not being too personal... But when you did your 6 month hold may I ask the type of symptoms you were having?  If too invasive, I understand.... Or if you want to pm or not, that's also okay...

 

Some people I know may feel uncomfortable about certain things.... Thank you...

Hi Please. I made this post at 4 months when I was feeling fairly stable although I did continue to experience periods of bad days mixed with good, the good days were more prevalent at 5 months and at 6 months I felt pretty much normal. Sxs would drop off only to be replaced by new sxs. It waxed and waned the whole time but I took away temptation by going into "Guinea pig" mode and resolving to hold for 6 months. I hope that helps. I was a mess when I started the hold.

 

List of sxs experienced during this 4 month hold:

Electric shocks in legs, feet and hands

Severe sweating

Muscle and nerve pain in shoulders, neck, feet, legs and back

Excessive DP/DR

Extreme fatigue

Terrible depression and suicidal ideation

Vertigo

Muscle fasciculations

Frequent urination

Anhedonia

Apathy

Activity intolerance

Terrible headache

Tinnitus

Blurry vision with floaters

Hands and body shaking

Feeling like I live in a dream world (even if it is a nightmare)

Neuropathy

I'm sure I'll think of more but these are those that stand out. Maybe if I just cut and pasted the sxs from the Ashton manual they'd all be included lol.

--V

[[li...]]

Does it make sense that a wave in a hold would be more brutal the further in you get?  At five months this is my worst wave--even worse than having vertigo for three weeks (which I never had before in my life). This is feeling like tolerance. I totally believe what everyone has said about tolerance but I'm holding, not tapering so isn't it possible this could be tolerance?  Or is it darkest before the dawn?  This last week has been so terrible mentally with way worse fog, confusion, blurry vision, DR,  frantic, can't ground to distraction, constantly talking myself out of screaming that it's hopeless. I started the hold with these symptoms and now they are just as strong and I feel like a failure. I remember being on here at 2-2 1/2 months so positive and able to drive. Just don't know what to do

[[Pl...]]

Does it make sense that a wave in a hold would be more brutal the further in you get?  At five months this is my worst wave--even worse than having vertigo for three weeks (which I never had before in my life). This is feeling like tolerance. I totally believe what everyone has said about tolerance but I'm holding, not tapering so isn't it possible this could be tolerance?  Or is it darkest before the dawn?  This last week has been so terrible mentally with way worse fog, confusion, blurry vision, DR,  frantic, can't ground to distraction, constantly talking myself out of screaming that it's hopeless. I started the hold with these symptoms and now they are just as strong and I feel like a failure. I remember being on here at 2-2 1/2 months so positive and able to drive. Just don't know what to do

 

Liza.... Are you at 5 months now? ( i had to go back and check and see that yes you are) Do you think you could wait one more month and reevaluate? Maybe the next few weeks or even week will be even more revealing in what you should do.... listen to me talk here as if I know .     

 

Whatever you decide to do its kind of like the satisfaction of knowing you did give it that bit of extra time of say 6 months where you might not be second guessing yourself later that you should have waited a few extra weeks to do something..... I don't know if that makes sense...

 

Btw, I have all your symptoms  you listed and more....you can watch my head sway like a bobble head ( no kidding!) We can both scream together...And the humidity and heat just escalated everything big time.....

[[Pl...]]

V- I hope I'm not being too personal... But when you did your 6 month hold may I ask the type of symptoms you were having?  If too invasive, I understand.... Or if you want to pm or not, that's also okay...

 

Some people I know may feel uncomfortable about certain things.... Thank you...

Hi Please. I made this post at 4 months when I was feeling fairly stable although I did continue to experience periods of bad days mixed with good, the good days were more prevalent at 5 months and at 6 months I felt pretty much normal. Sxs would drop off only to be replaced by new sxs. It waxed and waned the whole time but I took away temptation by going into "Guinea pig" mode and resolving to hold for 6 months. I hope that helps. I was a mess when I started the hold.

 

List of sxs experienced during this 4 month hold:

Electric shocks in legs, feet and hands

Severe sweating

Muscle and nerve pain in shoulders, neck, feet, legs and back

Excessive DP/DR

Extreme fatigue

Terrible depression and suicidal ideation

Vertigo

Muscle fasciculations

Frequent urination

Anhedonia

Apathy

Activity intolerance

Terrible headache

Tinnitus

Blurry vision with floaters

Hands and body shaking

Feeling like I live in a dream world (even if it is a nightmare)

Neuropathy

I'm sure I'll think of more but these are those that stand out. Maybe if I just cut and pasted the sxs from the Ashton manual they'd all be included lol.

--V

 

V- thanks for that beautiful list! Yes... I can relate and I think pasting all the symptoms from the Ashton manual would pretty much sum it up for me along with some new ones! Leave it to me for that...   

 

As I sit here typing I'm getting random memories of old dreams I've had popping in my head (wth? Fun times... Thanks kolonopin) and now i have to fight my face and eyes to keep from moving spasming and contracting and so much more!.....wait how could I forget my drug fueled dreams I get every night after starting this evil k and waking up with wicked anxiety..... .oh benzos the gift that keeps on giving..... I hope what Ashton says about the memories thing is a good thing.... I never had any of this stuff before in my life....

 

Really V.... Everyday its like this.... Literally like the movie Groundhog Day...

 

If I didn't have you guys to spill this out to I don't know what I would do.....

 

All kidding aside, it really helps to specifically know what others have gone thru before you though you really wouldn't wish it on anybody its so horrible..

 

Thank you so much for sharing V.....(((.      ))))

[[Va...]]

V- I hope I'm not being too personal... But when you did your 6 month hold may I ask the type of symptoms you were having?  If too invasive, I understand.... Or if you want to pm or not, that's also okay...

 

Some people I know may feel uncomfortable about certain things.... Thank you...

Hi Please. I made this post at 4 months when I was feeling fairly stable although I did continue to experience periods of bad days mixed with good, the good days were more prevalent at 5 months and at 6 months I felt pretty much normal. Sxs would drop off only to be replaced by new sxs. It waxed and waned the whole time but I took away temptation by going into "Guinea pig" mode and resolving to hold for 6 months. I hope that helps. I was a mess when I started the hold.

 

List of sxs experienced during this 4 month hold:

Electric shocks in legs, feet and hands

Severe sweating

Muscle and nerve pain in shoulders, neck, feet, legs and back

Excessive DP/DR

Extreme fatigue

Terrible depression and suicidal ideation

Vertigo

Muscle fasciculations

Frequent urination

Anhedonia

Apathy

Activity intolerance

Terrible headache

Tinnitus

Blurry vision with floaters

Hands and body shaking

Feeling like I live in a dream world (even if it is a nightmare)

Neuropathy

I'm sure I'll think of more but these are those that stand out. Maybe if I just cut and pasted the sxs from the Ashton manual they'd all be included lol.

--V

 

V- thanks for that beautiful list! Yes... I can relate and I think pasting all the symptoms from the Ashton manual would pretty much sum it up for me along with some new ones! Leave it to me for that...   

 

As I sit here typing I'm getting random memories of old dreams I've had popping in my head (wth? Fun times... Thanks kolonopin) and now i have to fight my face and eyes to keep from moving spasming and contracting and so much more!.....wait how could I forget my drug fueled dreams I get every night after starting this evil k and waking up with wicked anxiety..... .oh benzos the gift that keeps on giving..... I hope what Ashton says about the memories thing is a good thing.... I never had any of this stuff before in my life....

 

Really V.... Everyday its like this.... Literally like the movie Groundhog Day...

 

If I didn't have you guys to spill this out to I don't know what I would do.....

 

All kidding aside, it really helps to specifically know what others have gone thru before you though you really wouldn't wish it on anybody its so horrible..

 

Thank you so much for sharing V.....(((.      ))))

Glad I could help Please! I'm sure almost all on BB can relate lol.  --V

[[He...]]

Hi Pleasebethere,

I looked at your profile signature and see that you have been on so many different drugs over the past recent years and months.

I don't know about most of those drugs.

I do know that the Ashton manual says if you are on more than on drug, you  shouldn't try to taper off of them at the same time.  You should taper off only one at a time. I am not sure if that is what your doc is having you do but might tapering and changing drugs so  often be a reason you are having so much difficulty? Can you CNS adjust to all that change so fast?

I am certainly not a dr. But it's just a thought I had. I find it hard to follow your taper so please excuse me for that.

 

In regard to my taper, my parathesia and holding.....

 

Before I decided to get off my prescribed Valium, I was on 7.5 mg Valium and had already begun to have feelings of shakes and kind of inner vibrations in my body. I thought I had Parkinson's disease.  My hands would tremble so that when I ate cereal with a spoon it just shook off the spoon.

I had feelings inside my body that I could feel but nobody could see. They wer internal. It was like someone turned on a machine inside my body.  the term for that I believe is parathesia.

 

This all happened BEFORE I was starting to taper off the drug. No body told me about tolerance. I never  heard the word. But I knew something was wrong because of the way I felt. I needed more than my initial dose to get the same effect. That's when I knew something was wrong.That's when I decided I had to get off this drug. THATS WHAT I NOW KNOW IS TOLERANCE. ..WHEN YOU ARE ON A DRUG AND YOU FIND THAt THE DOSE YOU ARE ON IS JUST NOT GIviNG YOU THE same EFFECT AND YOU HAVEVTO UP YOUR DOSE! That's how I got addicted in the first place. ( had my doctor taken me off the dug, perhaps I wouldn't be in the situation I am on now!)

 

So I have had the feelings of trembles in my body even BEFORE I started my taper. They never got better throughout my taper. They never went away. They got a bit worse. I know now, but I didn't know then, that the reason the parathesia never went away was that my cutting and tapering was much too fast. I was not letting my CNS catch up with all the cuts I made. The size of the cuts was too big and the time between cuts was too fast. So I just held on and figured the parathesia was one of the side effects that I was going to have.

But when I went fro 1.5 to 1.25, ( it was a 16% cut !) the s--t hit the fan. My parathesia became much worse. Now my internal vibrations and trembles were so bad I didn't want to do anything but stay in bed.. I started having pins and needles in my arms and legs also.

 

It was the buddies in this long hold group that helped me to understand what was happening. All those fast cuts were catching up to me.my CNS just needed time to catch up. They told me I could up dose or hold tight where I was and the side effects would eventually get better. They said I needed time to stablize.

I didn't want to hold. I didnt want to updose.

I wanted to keep tapering because I wanted off this horrible drug.

But I was in such a horrible spot, I decided I had no choice.

So I started my hold promising myself I would give it atleast two months( which really is not that long when you compare it other holds on this forum.)

 

You asked if my sfx got worse or what happened during my hold? Well they got so bad I didn't know what to do. I almost dosed up, but encouragement from others told me not to dose up now that I was already into day 11 of my hold. They said it would get better. I can't tell you how many times it got better only to get worse again. The parathesia was the worst it had ever been. I had headaches and neck aches and thigh muscle pain. I had tinnitus ( it's still there but much better) and dry eyes and some blurry vision from time to time.

But I still held with the promise that it would get better.

THEN SOMETIME INTO MY FIFTH OR SIXTH WEEK IT STARTED TO EASE UP. THEN I STARTED GETTING WINDOWS In the LATE AFTERNOON FOR ABOUT THREE  HOURS. THEN ONE ONE DAY, THE PARSTHESIA LEFT ME AND I ACTUALLY FELT LIKE MY OLD SELF AGAIN.  That was areal gift!

BUT IT DIDNT LAST. BUT... I know healing is not linear. I know things will get better and worse and better gain etc. but each time, although they did often get worse, all and all they were all so much better than before.

 

At the end of my hold,Iknew for sure, that my CNS WAS  CATCHING UP WITH MY CUTS. Because of how I felt...really much better.

And After 7 weeks, my parathesia disappeared for about  6-7 hours each day! It's getting better all the time. AND REMEMBER, I WAS NEVER WITHOUT PARATHESIA FROM EVEN BEFORE I HAD STARTED MY TAPER!

 

There is no one who can convince me that it was not the hold that saved me. I know for sure it was the hold! I was NOT IN TOLERANCE, I just needed to let my CNS CATCH UP WITH MY CUTS.

 

I am now  8 days passed my two month hold. I started my micro taper. I tapered .01 everyday for five days to bring me to a cut of .05.  I am having mild side affects but nothing compared to what I went though with that two month hold. I actually went shopping with my hubby today to two different stores. Was on my feet for three hours, and did really well. I am back going to the gym, even though I don't go often enough.

There is no one on this planet that can change my mind.... LONG HOLDS WORK!

I don't believe in withdrawal tolerance.

 

Good luck PLEASEBETHERE!

Sorry I rambled on so much.

I hope I answered your questions.

Long holds work. They aren't easy because you will constantly question what you are doing, and will want to cut before your hold is up. But hang in there! You will be so glad you did!

I hope your taper and your healing begin to go easier for you. I care, and I will be looking for your posts.

And when I hit a bad bump, I know all you buddies will be there for me too. ITS EASY FOR ME TO SOUND POSITIVE IN MY POSTS WHEN I AM DOING WELL, LIKE NOW. BUT I KNOW, THERE WILL MOST LIKELY STILL BE TIMES WHEN I AM COMPLETELY DOWN AND I WILL NEED YOUR SUPPORT

 

I love this forum and all you buddies!  

Heathcliff

 

 

 

[[li...]]

Thanks Please. I cried to my husband yesterday and he said something similar about waiting into the next week or so and see if it lets up because I committed to trying without updosing for six months so I pray I can get there. I know what you mean about the dreams.  They've always been crazy on K, but before my hold and in this last week I'm waking up several times a night trying to "fix" what is going on in my dream. It's very disorienting and disturbing and makes me feel like I have gotten very little sleep.

I wish you all the best and pray things settle down for you if you stop tapering even tiny amounts and hold.

[[He...]]

Ha ha, today my hubby asked me if

MY WINDOW WAS OPEN!

He finally understands!

And he's got the lingo! ( sort of)

Yay!

 

Heathcliff

[[ly...]]

 

Heathcliff,

 

I hope it's open WIDE!  How are you doing?  You sound great!  Often you can tell just by someone's writing that things are improving/better.

 

I want to tell you all that my long hold of 4 months seems to have really done the trick.  This latest 12% cut has been the easiest so far.  It's day 5 and I am ready to call success.  I only had the most minimal of wd sxs on day 2 or 3 - can't remember - and I feel great.  The T remains at a very low level but I have had t from day one of my taper and it was roaring for months and has been off and on throughout - coming and going.  I may even be at baseline now because the high dose of xanax may have keep it away.  My mother has had T for years and my husband has it, so it may just be an age thing due to blasting music most of my life.

 

I had very bad wd on the earlier cuts.  I considered it "tolerable" because I wasn't bed-ridden (except periodically with the dizzies and other stuff) and my mood was (and has remained) excellent since the first large cut.  This after 25 yrs of horrible, debilitating and intractable depression and anxiety.  The mood and energy made even the worst wd tolerable - I'll take physical over the torture of suicidal depression any day of the week.

 

I hope my experience gives hope to those holding or considering a hold - it has paid off in spades for me.  I allowed myself time to right the ship, give my brain a chance to recover and be in a better state to proceed.  I think V's theory is spot on.

 

note: the weird stuff (vibrating/creepy crawly) in the lower legs and feet is still noticeable when in bed but lower/lesser than it was.

[[Va...]]

Thanks Please. I cried to my husband yesterday and he said something similar about waiting into the next week or so and see if it lets up because I committed to trying without updosing for six months so I pray I can get there. I know what you mean about the dreams.  They've always been crazy on K, but before my hold and in this last week I'm waking up several times a night trying to "fix" what is going on in my dream. It's very disorienting and disturbing and makes me feel like I have gotten very little sleep.

I wish you all the best and pray things settle down for you if you stop tapering even tiny amounts and hold.

The dream issue you're having is strange to me although I've read several others have disturbing dreams also. My dreams are great and I can't wait to go to bed so I can start dreaming. Hope the 6 month mark is the charmfor you!  --V

[[be...]]

Morning all, for those of you having a good day, I am so happy, and for those who are still struggling I am Praying for you and we are here for you, and I hope that your suffering will stop soon. Hang in there everyone.

 

Lynn, just love what you wrote.

 

"I hope my experience gives hope to those holding or considering a hold - it has paid off in spades for me.  I allowed myself time to right the ship, give my brain a chance to recover and be in a better state to proceed."  

[[ba...]]

Hi Pleasebethere,

I looked at your profile signature and see that you have been on so many different drugs over the past recent years and months.

I don't know about most of those drugs.

I do know that the Ashton manual says if you are on more than on drug, you  shouldn't try to taper off of them at the same time.  You should taper off only one at a time. I am not sure if that is what your doc is having you do but might tapering and changing drugs so  often be a reason you are having so much difficulty? Can you CNS adjust to all that change so fast?

I am certainly not a dr. But it's just a thought I had. I find it hard to follow your taper so please excuse me for that.

 

In regard to my taper, my parathesia and holding.....

 

 

 

Before I decided to get off my prescribed Valium, I was on 7.5 mg Valium and had already begun to have feelings of shakes and kind of inner vibrations in my body. I thought I had Parkinson's disease.  My hands would tremble so that when I ate cereal with a spoon it just shook off the spoon.

I had feelings inside my body that I could feel but nobody could see. They wer internal. It was like someone turned on a machine inside my body.  the term for that I believe is parathesia.

 

This all happened BEFORE I was starting to taper off the drug. No body told me about tolerance. I never  heard the word. But I knew something was wrong because of the way I felt. I needed more than my initial dose to get the same effect. That's when I knew something was wrong.That's when I decided I had to get off this drug. THATS WHAT I NOW KNOW IS TOLERANCE. ..WHEN YOU ARE ON A DRUG AND YOU FIND THAt THE DOSE YOU ARE ON IS JUST NOT GIviNG YOU THE same EFFECT AND YOU HAVEVTO UP YOUR DOSE! That's how I got addicted in the first place. ( had my doctor taken me off the dug, perhaps I wouldn't be in the situation I am on now!)

 

So I have had the feelings of trembles in my body even BEFORE I started my taper. They never got better throughout my taper. They never went away. They got a bit worse. I know now, but I didn't know then, that the reason the parathesia never went away was that my cutting and tapering was much too fast. I was not letting my CNS catch up with all the cuts I made. The size of the cuts was too big and the time between cuts was too fast. So I just held on and figured the parathesia was one of the side effects that I was going to have.

But when I went fro 1.5 to 1.25, ( it was a 16% cut !) the s--t hit the fan. My parathesia became much worse. Now my internal vibrations and trembles were so bad I didn't want to do anything but stay in bed.. I started having pins and needles in my arms and legs also.

 

It was the buddies in this long hold group that helped me to understand what was happening. All those fast cuts were catching up to me.my CNS just needed time to catch up. They told me I could up dose or hold tight where I was and the side effects would eventually get better. They said I needed time to stablize.

I didn't want to hold. I didnt want to updose.

I wanted to keep tapering because I wanted off this horrible drug.

But I was in such a horrible spot, I decided I had no choice.

So I started my hold promising myself I would give it atleast two months( which really is not that long when you compare it other holds on this forum.)

 

You asked if my sfx got worse or what happened during my hold? Well they got so bad I didn't know what to do. I almost dosed up, but encouragement from others told me not to dose up now that I was already into day 11 of my hold. They said it would get better. I can't tell you how many times it got better only to get worse again. The parathesia was the worst it had ever been. I had headaches and neck aches and thigh muscle pain. I had tinnitus ( it's still there but much better) and dry eyes and some blurry vision from time to time.

But I still held with the promise that it would get better.

THEN SOMETIME INTO MY FIFTH OR SIXTH WEEK IT STARTED TO EASE UP. THEN I STARTED GETTING WINDOWS In the LATE AFTERNOON FOR ABOUT THREE  HOURS. THEN ONE ONE DAY, THE PARSTHESIA LEFT ME AND I ACTUALLY FELT LIKE MY OLD SELF AGAIN.  That was areal gift!

BUT IT DIDNT LAST. BUT... I know healing is not linear. I know things will get better and worse and better gain etc. but each time, although they did often get worse, all and all they were all so much better than before.

 

At the end of my hold,Iknew for sure, that my CNS WAS  CATCHING UP WITH MY CUTS. Because of how I felt...really much better.

And After 7 weeks, my parathesia disappeared for about  6-7 hours each day! It's getting better all the time. AND REMEMBER, I WAS NEVER WITHOUT PARATHESIA FROM EVEN BEFORE I HAD STARTED MY TAPER!

 

There is no one who can convince me that it was not the hold that saved me. I know for sure it was the hold! I was NOT IN TOLERANCE, I just needed to let my CNS CATCH UP WITH MY CUTS.

 

I am now  8 days passed my two month hold. I started my micro taper. I tapered .01 everyday for five days to bring me to a cut of .05.  I am having mild side affects but nothing compared to what I went though with that two month hold. I actually went shopping with my hubby today to two different stores. Was on my feet for three hours, and did really well. I am back going to the gym, even though I don't go often enough.

There is no one on this planet that can change my mind.... LONG HOLDS WORK!

I don't believe in withdrawal tolerance.

 

Good luck PLEASEBETHERE!

Sorry I rambled on so much.

I hope I answered your questions.

Long holds work. They aren't easy because you will constantly question what you are doing, and will want to cut before your hold is up. But hang in there! You will be so glad you did!

I hope your taper and your healing begin to go easier for you. I care, and I will be looking for your posts.

And when I hit a bad bump, I know all you buddies will be there for me too. ITS EASY FOR ME TO SOUND POSITIVE IN MY POSTS WHEN I AM DOING WELL, LIKE NOW. BUT I KNOW, THERE WILL MOST LIKELY STILL BE TIMES WHEN I AM COMPLETELY DOWN AND I WILL NEED YOUR SUPPORT

 

I love this forum and all you buddies!  

Heathcliff

I need this, thank you. Same boat, was already in the shit before tapering. And, I had tapered several times before, usually  would give up screaming after a month. Thanks for sharing, I have read over several of your posts, and I know the taper for you has been hell, I am likewise really suffering.  Some us have  a physiology that is extremely reactive, others don't. I was so depressed last night I wanted to commit suicide. I told myself it's because your brain has very low seratoniin, and your stressed, and wd is a nightmare, and wait for tomorrow, this will pass.

[[an...]]

Good Morning everyone!!

 

Lynn, I am so happy this second cut is going well for you.  Wonderful news!!

 

Heath, you do sound much better.  You will get to the end before you know it, but then again there is no rush.

 

Baddove, you will also stabilize.  Just keep holding at a consistent daily dose.

 

Begood, thank you for all of your encouraging words.  Glad to hear you are doing well.

 

Liza, I agree with your husband.  You have another few weeks before you  hit that 6 month mark.  Might as well hang in there.  You never know with these drugs.  I remember several times during this taper I was ready to up dose because of symptoms.  I would tell myself to hold on for a while longer, and then when I least expected it, symptoms would just lift.  You can always reevaluate once you hit that 6 month mark. 

 

Free, I hope you find some relief soon.  I am so sorry about the burning.  So many on the forum seem to have this problem.  You are in my thoughts.

 

Lainey, I hope things are going well with your cut.  You will make it through this. We all will.

 

Valley, I am sending good thoughts your way.  So glad to hear things are going well with this cut.

 

Gardner, I hope you are still improving.  How is it going with the Q? 

 

Please, I hope that you get relief soon from the symptoms.  I am so sorry you are going through so much pain. I wish I had an answer for you, but please know you have my support.

 

I hope everyone has windows today!!

 

Anne :smitten:

[[an...]]

Morning all, for those of you having a good day, I am so happy, and for those who are still struggling I am Praying for you and we are here for you, and I hope that your suffering will stop soon. Hang in there everyone.

 

Lynn, just love what you wrote.

 

"I hope my experience gives hope to those holding or considering a hold - it has paid off in spades for me.  I allowed myself time to right the ship, give my brain a chance to recover and be in a better state to proceed."

 

Agreed!!  :thumbsup:

[[li...]]

Thanks BeGood and Anne.  I don't know where i'd be without this group.  I had such hope and now I feel insane again and so sick so I hope this is the last of the worst.  I'm almost afraid to hope for 6 months because I hoped for 3, 4 and 5!  Love you all.

 

Wait Anne--didn't you just updose?  And it was a good thing?  I am so frantic brained I'm back in the thick of the horrible and can't decide so I'm just sitting here and crying and praying.

[[ba...]]

Thanks BeGood and Anne.  I don't know where i'd be without this group.  I had such hope and now I feel insane again and so sick so I hope this is the last of the worst.  I'm almost afraid to hope for 6 months because I hoped for 3, 4 and 5!  Love you all.

 

Wait Anne--didn't you just updose?  And it was a good thing?  I am so frantic brained I'm back in the thick of the horrible and can't decide so I'm just sitting here and crying and praying.

 

I am not Anne, but I just up dosed. I had a psychotic episode, and was declining for 3 or weeks into deeper hell nearing 2 months. The psychosis was it for me.

 

Those who are wiser than I can advice you. I just started my up dose, so can't really report on it yet.

 

 

[[Va...]]

 

 

THEN SOMETIME INTO MY FIFTH OR SIXTH WEEK IT STARTED TO EASE UP. THEN I STARTED GETTING WINDOWS In the LATE AFTERNOON FOR ABOUT THREE  HOURS. THEN ONE ONE DAY, THE PARSTHESIA LEFT ME AND I ACTUALLY FELT LIKE MY OLD SELF AGAIN.  That was areal gift!

BUT IT DIDNT LAST. BUT... I know healing is not linear. I know things will get better and worse and better gain etc. but each time, although they did often get worse, all and all they were all so much better than before.

 

At the end of my hold,Iknew for sure, that my CNS WAS  CATCHING UP WITH MY CUTS. Because of how I felt...really much better.

 

Long holds work. They aren't easy because you will constantly question what you are doing, and will want to cut before your hold is up. But hang in there! You will be so glad you did!

I hope your taper and your healing begin to go easier for you. I care, and I will be looking for your posts.

And when I hit a bad bump, I know all you buddies will be there for me too. ITS EASY FOR ME TO SOUND POSITIVE IN MY POSTS WHEN I AM DOING WELL, LIKE NOW. BUT I KNOW, THERE WILL MOST LIKELY STILL BE TIMES WHEN I AM COMPLETELY DOWN AND I WILL NEED YOUR SUPPORT

 

I love this forum and all you buddies!  

Heathcliff

This was exactly my experience Heathcliff. I got my first window at 6 weeks but it was anything but stable at that point. I kept thinking I was stable several times throughout the hold because I think we actually forget what feeling good actually is. Most of us have felt like garbage even before starting to taper so it's very difficult to judge stability. At least it was for me as this was the first experience I had with a long hold. The important thing is to allow as much time for healing to take place as possible. I refer to our experience in tapering as temporary chemical brain damage. If we allow healing to take place, the ride is much smoother. Continuing to taper in the face of severe withdrawal causes more of the temporary chemical brain damage, makes no sense to me and will take a lot longer to heal from in the long run, thus the need to hold for sxs to settle. The idea is to get off in as good as shape as possible so post acute is minimized or non existent.

 

Holding was so hard to do as I am so impatient but knew intuitively the drug was going to have the last say and there was no way I was going to taper my way out of being highly symptomatic. I'm absolutely sold on holds now (pretty good considering I was absolutely against them when I started tapering lol). I also believe an occasional hold is beneficial even when tapering is going well just to allow for additional healing to occur. Just my thoughts. Your post was excellent!  --V

[[Va...]]

Thanks BeGood and Anne.  I don't know where i'd be without this group.  I had such hope and now I feel insane again and so sick so I hope this is the last of the worst.  I'm almost afraid to hope for 6 months because I hoped for 3, 4 and 5!  Love you all.

 

Wait Anne--didn't you just updose?  And it was a good thing?  I am so frantic brained I'm back in the thick of the horrible and can't decide so I'm just sitting here and crying and praying.

Liza, so sorry it's a bad day for you. Can you make it to 6 months? If not, do what you feel you have to do to get stable. You've been suffering a long time and if things aren't changing and sxs are intolerable, do what you have to do. --V