Diazepam liquid taper help

[[sl...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

Much respect to you! I tapered off K in the past (long story as to how I ended up back on Benzos!) and it was much more difficult than tapering off Diaz. It won't be long until you reach your goal. How long do you think you'll take a break for? It is admirable that you are willing to take a break because as you know, most want to just power through their taper and get off the drugs. Sounds like you're really in touch with what your body can handle.

 

Thank you for your explanation in response to my question. Yesterday I just had a bad mental health day and I was fed up with the whole process - leading to me thinking that I just want to hurry up and get off the drugs. But I have noticed that with the smaller cuts the insomnia is much milder, so I am definitely going to continue on the path you and I decided on, with 0.25mg drops every 2 weeks or so. Your explanation makes a lot of sense to me.

 

I am actually going to have to stay on 2.5mg of diazepam for a while longer because I am switching from solid Zyprexa tablets to a dissolvable wafer. There have been studies showing that the dissolvable version does not cause as much weight gain due to the way it's metabolised, and I have been piling on weight like crazy. I will stay on 2.5mg for at least 2 weeks before making my Zyprexa change and then won't change anything again for at least 2 weeks after the switch.

 

P.S. I read your backstory and it looks like you and I are the same age . I am turning 35 next month.

 

Enjoy your social event and I'm sure I will chat to you soon

 

Thanks for sharing more of your story Nic. I really hope I can end my benzo WD journey this first time; seriously, I'm considering putting benzodiazepines in my medical records as an allergy after I'm done tapering.

 

The social event went really well; my wife and I hosted Quaker meeting, so really, how hard could it be? ~20 people who want to sit together silently for an hour and then share their names and one word that July makes them think of... It's as low stress as I could hope for. I didn't hold even, I just kept cutting, now 16 days steady. 10 days from now I'll have what I'm sure will be "just another day", but a milestone I'll do my best to celebrate on a restricted diet and extremely limited car travel.  At least it's summer time up here!

 

Thanks for your encouragement. I completely understand about "bad mental health" days; in and out of a funk in a day is a good sign, I hope you were able to be kind to yourself about it.

 

Your Zyprexa dose-form switch sounds very promising; I can't relate personally, I'm very lucky I basically wide-stepped psyche drugs for over a decade (also probably why I was never accepted for disability insurance). I wish tapering K helped me put on weight; I'm fighting to get to 130lbs, at 6 feet! Your plan to hold V while you make the Z dose-form switch sounds really intelligent. I'm always impressed by your thoughtful, patient tapering plans.

 

A premature happy birthday to you! Sorry but I'll definitely forget, as I can hardly remember my own. 

I look forward to updates. You'll be in my prayers (and Angus of course). 

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

How are you my friend? How is your tapering journey going?

 

I have now picked up my liquid Diazepam which is 1mg per 1ml. I had an in depth conversation with my psychiatrist about the switch over to liquid Diaz and he would rather that I don't make a step wise transition over to Diazepam. He thinks it will be better for me to just switch straight over to the liquid version and deal with any withdrawals in one go rather than potentially prolonging withdrawals with a longer switch over. I of course argued with him and said that I would rather gradually switch over incase anything goes wrong. Is it better to gradually move over to liquid because the switch to liquid is like making a cut?

 

Many thanks,

 

Nic

 

Hi Slownsteady,

 

Much respect to you! I tapered off K in the past (long story as to how I ended up back on Benzos!) and it was much more difficult than tapering off Diaz. It won't be long until you reach your goal. How long do you think you'll take a break for? It is admirable that you are willing to take a break because as you know, most want to just power through their taper and get off the drugs. Sounds like you're really in touch with what your body can handle.

 

Thank you for your explanation in response to my question. Yesterday I just had a bad mental health day and I was fed up with the whole process - leading to me thinking that I just want to hurry up and get off the drugs. But I have noticed that with the smaller cuts the insomnia is much milder, so I am definitely going to continue on the path you and I decided on, with 0.25mg drops every 2 weeks or so. Your explanation makes a lot of sense to me.

 

I am actually going to have to stay on 2.5mg of diazepam for a while longer because I am switching from solid Zyprexa tablets to a dissolvable wafer. There have been studies showing that the dissolvable version does not cause as much weight gain due to the way it's metabolised, and I have been piling on weight like crazy. I will stay on 2.5mg for at least 2 weeks before making my Zyprexa change and then won't change anything again for at least 2 weeks after the switch.

 

P.S. I read your backstory and it looks like you and I are the same age . I am turning 35 next month.

 

Enjoy your social event and I'm sure I will chat to you soon

 

Thanks for sharing more of your story Nic. I really hope I can end my benzo WD journey this first time; seriously, I'm considering putting benzodiazepines in my medical records as an allergy after I'm done tapering.

 

The social event went really well; my wife and I hosted Quaker meeting, so really, how hard could it be? ~20 people who want to sit together silently for an hour and then share their names and one word that July makes them think of... It's as low stress as I could hope for. I didn't hold even, I just kept cutting, now 16 days steady. 10 days from now I'll have what I'm sure will be "just another day", but a milestone I'll do my best to celebrate on a restricted diet and extremely limited car travel.  At least it's summer time up here!

 

Thanks for your encouragement. I completely understand about "bad mental health" days; in and out of a funk in a day is a good sign, I hope you were able to be kind to yourself about it.

 

Your Zyprexa dose-form switch sounds very promising; I can't relate personally, I'm very lucky I basically wide-stepped psyche drugs for over a decade (also probably why I was never accepted for disability insurance). I wish tapering K helped me put on weight; I'm fighting to get to 130lbs, at 6 feet! Your plan to hold V while you make the Z dose-form switch sounds really intelligent. I'm always impressed by your thoughtful, patient tapering plans.

 

A premature happy birthday to you! Sorry but I'll definitely forget, as I can hardly remember my own. 

I look forward to updates. You'll be in my prayers (and Angus of course). 

[[sl...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

How are you my friend? How is your tapering journey going?

 

I have now picked up my liquid Diazepam which is 1mg per 1ml. I had an in depth conversation with my psychiatrist about the switch over to liquid Diaz and he would rather that I don't make a step wise transition over to Diazepam. He thinks it will be better for me to just switch straight over to the liquid version and deal with any withdrawals in one go rather than potentially prolonging withdrawals with a longer switch over. I of course argued with him and said that I would rather gradually switch over incase anything goes wrong. Is it better to gradually move over to liquid because the switch to liquid is like making a cut?

 

Many thanks,

 

Nic

 

Hey Nic,

Great to hear from you! If you're signature is up to date, then you're stable on 2.5mg V. Congrats. I also hope your Zelprexa switch went okay.

 

My taper is going swimmingly. I hit my half-way dosage milestone of 1mg, and I don't seem to notice benefits from holding any more. I held 7 days at 1mg just to be sure, and the medicine only made me more disconnected from myself. I'm back to cutting. My goal is to taper just fast enough to negate the effects of the medicine, without creating unnecessary withdrawal symptoms. Tapering is finally on the "back burner", and developmental trauma therapy is in the fore.

 

The argument for making a gradual transition to any liquid is because it carries a series of risks. Two risks that come to mind are 1) being intolerant to one of the new ingredients and 2) the absorption or "bioavailability" could be different, as you say, feeling like a cut of unknown quantity. I suggested a step-wise transition because I think it reduces these risks; I can't quantify these risks, but they are risks. Some of us are more sensitive than others.

 

If you switch all at once I suggest holding at 2.5mg on liquid for two weeks before starting to take reductions; this way if you have an issue you won't confuse it with taper-related withdrawal symptoms.

 

Just from my personal experience, I think the biggest issue to look out for is intolerance of ingredients; sometimes people feel this with the first dose, or it might take three or four. This could be a deal breaker, or you could get used to it. If you're dosing liquid a few days and feeling fine, I suspect you can tolerate the liquid. Then the next week or so will be an indicator of how similar it is to 2.5mg in tablets for your body; you might have some withdrawal symptoms if there's a difference. I don't think this would be staggering, especially with the manufactured solution of diazepam. Maybe a little insomnia, given your history?

 

I suspect your doctor would agree with this two-week hold approach; I bet they just don't want to fuss with two forms of the medicine and a transition schedule. Doctors are busy people.

 

I'd love to hear how you're doing. Best of luck with your switch to liquid. Let me know if there's any more I can do to help. 

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

I'm so glad to hear that your tapering journey is going well! Congratulations on reaching your half-way dosage milestone. It sounds like you are very in touch with the way you feel and you're able to let that determine your tapering rate. In terms of therapy - have you ever done a session of EMDR? I have found EMDR incredible in terms of helping me to process past trauma as well as accepting current issues.

 

Unfortunately I have hit a roadblock due to my Zyprexa switch. I switched to the wafer version on the 20th of July. Since then I have experienced bad bouts of insomnia but after having insomnia for periods of about 3 days I had one or two promising nights, so on a couple of occasions I thought that I had finally transitioned. However, on Friday night I only slept two hours and the following day (yesterday) I felt depressed so I made the tough decision to switch back to the coated tablet. I slept a bit better last night and I have had mild depression today. I have obviously decided to hold my valium (on solid pills) for at least two weeks, or until I can see a decent improvement in my sleep and mood. I hope I haven't jeopardised my valium taper. I am feeling very concerned about that! But trying to stay positive.

 

Thank you for your explanation as to why it is a good idea to do a step wise transition to liquid. I am planning to speak to my psychiatrist again soon and I will explain to him that I have had a hard time with the Zyprexa switch so I would prefer to gradually move on to the diazepam liquid when I am ready. I'll see what he says!

 

Thanks again for your support my friend. I am glad that you are doing well  

 

Hi Slownsteady,

 

How are you my friend? How is your tapering journey going?

 

I have now picked up my liquid Diazepam which is 1mg per 1ml. I had an in depth conversation with my psychiatrist about the switch over to liquid Diaz and he would rather that I don't make a step wise transition over to Diazepam. He thinks it will be better for me to just switch straight over to the liquid version and deal with any withdrawals in one go rather than potentially prolonging withdrawals with a longer switch over. I of course argued with him and said that I would rather gradually switch over incase anything goes wrong. Is it better to gradually move over to liquid because the switch to liquid is like making a cut?

 

Many thanks,

 

Nic

 

Hey Nic,

Great to hear from you! If you're signature is up to date, then you're stable on 2.5mg V. Congrats. I also hope your Zelprexa switch went okay.

 

My taper is going swimmingly. I hit my half-way dosage milestone of 1mg, and I don't seem to notice benefits from holding any more. I held 7 days at 1mg just to be sure, and the medicine only made me more disconnected from myself. I'm back to cutting. My goal is to taper just fast enough to negate the effects of the medicine, without creating unnecessary withdrawal symptoms. Tapering is finally on the "back burner", and developmental trauma therapy is in the fore.

 

The argument for making a gradual transition to any liquid is because it carries a series of risks. Two risks that come to mind are 1) being intolerant to one of the new ingredients and 2) the absorption or "bioavailability" could be different, as you say, feeling like a cut of unknown quantity. I suggested a step-wise transition because I think it reduces these risks; I can't quantify these risks, but they are risks. Some of us are more sensitive than others.

 

If you switch all at once I suggest holding at 2.5mg on liquid for two weeks before starting to take reductions; this way if you have an issue you won't confuse it with taper-related withdrawal symptoms.

 

Just from my personal experience, I think the biggest issue to look out for is intolerance of ingredients; sometimes people feel this with the first dose, or it might take three or four. This could be a deal breaker, or you could get used to it. If you're dosing liquid a few days and feeling fine, I suspect you can tolerate the liquid. Then the next week or so will be an indicator of how similar it is to 2.5mg in tablets for your body; you might have some withdrawal symptoms if there's a difference. I don't think this would be staggering, especially with the manufactured solution of diazepam. Maybe a little insomnia, given your history?

 

I suspect your doctor would agree with this two-week hold approach; I bet they just don't want to fuss with two forms of the medicine and a transition schedule. Doctors are busy people.

 

I'd love to hear how you're doing. Best of luck with your switch to liquid. Let me know if there's any more I can do to help. 

[[sl...]]

Hi Nic,

I'm sorry to hear that you Zyprexa switch didn't pan out the way you had hoped. I understand how discouraging it is when a gamble like this doesn't pay off. I don't think you've jeopardized your benzo taper; I see this testing your patience, but I believe you will be done with the diazepam sooner than later.

 

I really wish I could quantify the risks I was talking about earlier; I don't want you to be overly concerned about the liquid transition, but I also don't know how you'll react to the ingredients or availability. I trialed three different liquid K formulas, and the first two really were hard failures and I'm glad I was mostly on tablets. Everyone is different. I suspect the odds with manufactured liquid are more than a little better than the compounded suspensions I had trouble with.

 

Maybe your doctor will agree to a two step transition; a week half-liquid half-tablets (maybe 1mg liquid, 1.5mg tablets), then if you're tolerating it, a weeks hold on all-liquid before beginning tapering. Sort of a "rushed cautious" approach; bit of an oxymoron.

 

Thanks for your therapy suggestion! I did eight months of EMDR ten years ago, and I walked away saying I was "cured", but really I was just in denial of how deep the rabbit hole went. I also did a few sessions of EMDR and made really good use of the "butterfly" tapping day-to-day when I was a total mess from the THC. I've found as a trauma therapy, conventional EMDR never got to the bottom of my issues. My childhood trauma is pervasive, and it's nearly an endless supply of memories.

 

I get great value from the parts-work I'm doing that was specifically designed for developmental trauma survivors; as I understand it, a big piece of my recovery is not just soothing but also resourcing and establishing a strong connection with parts of myself that were never given the care and respect they needed to develop. So more than turning off the defenses, I need to help integrate and even celebrate who I became and who I am becoming. That's the idea anyways!

 

Let us know what your psychiatrist says, and any way that we can help you going forward with your taper. It may be difficult, but I suggest seeing each step on this journey as a success. 

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

Thanks so much for your reassurance - I'm glad to hear that you don't think I have jeopardised my benzo taper.

 

I could really identify with your description of your childhood trauma as "nearly an endless supply of memories". I am in a similar position. It sounds like you have learnt so much about yourself by experimenting with different therapy routes over the years. I'm glad that you have figured out a positive way forward, by connecting with parts of yourself that weren't given the care/space they needed to develop. Very inspiring!

 

So right now I am in a bit of a predicament. The night that I switched back to the regular coated Zyprexa tablet I slept fairly well, and then over the next 7 nights I started sleeping through the night. I was so pleased that my sleep got back on track, and then bam! On the 8th day I got hit with insomnia again. For the last 5 nights I have been waking between 1am and 2am in the morning. I am able to get back to sleep but I am not feeling very rested because I go to bed at 10:30pm and my first stretch of sleep is not long enough. In the past while I was attempting to taper Zyprexa I made a small error and I was hit with similar insomnia which took months (up to 4 months?) to get better. By insomnia I mean waking up between 1am and 3am in the morning.

 

I don't feel comfortable waiting another long period like that before tapering my valium but I am also concerned about what will happen if I taper valium (or switch to liquid first) while I am already waking up in the early morning. I am considering waiting a couple more weeks and if my sleep still hasn't improved I will take the gamble and switch to liquid valium anyway. What are your thoughts on this?

 

Thank you, and I hope you are still doing well!

 

Nic

 

Hi Nic,

I'm sorry to hear that you Zyprexa switch didn't pan out the way you had hoped. I understand how discouraging it is when a gamble like this doesn't pay off. I don't think you've jeopardized your benzo taper; I see this testing your patience, but I believe you will be done with the diazepam sooner than later.

 

I really wish I could quantify the risks I was talking about earlier; I don't want you to be overly concerned about the liquid transition, but I also don't know how you'll react to the ingredients or availability. I trialed three different liquid K formulas, and the first two really were hard failures and I'm glad I was mostly on tablets. Everyone is different. I suspect the odds with manufactured liquid are more than a little better than the compounded suspensions I had trouble with.

 

Maybe your doctor will agree to a two step transition; a week half-liquid half-tablets (maybe 1mg liquid, 1.5mg tablets), then if you're tolerating it, a weeks hold on all-liquid before beginning tapering. Sort of a "rushed cautious" approach; bit of an oxymoron.

 

Thanks for your therapy suggestion! I did eight months of EMDR ten years ago, and I walked away saying I was "cured", but really I was just in denial of how deep the rabbit hole went. I also did a few sessions of EMDR and made really good use of the "butterfly" tapping day-to-day when I was a total mess from the THC. I've found as a trauma therapy, conventional EMDR never got to the bottom of my issues. My childhood trauma is pervasive, and it's nearly an endless supply of memories.

 

I get great value from the parts-work I'm doing that was specifically designed for developmental trauma survivors; as I understand it, a big piece of my recovery is not just soothing but also resourcing and establishing a strong connection with parts of myself that were never given the care and respect they needed to develop. So more than turning off the defenses, I need to help integrate and even celebrate who I became and who I am becoming. That's the idea anyways!

 

Let us know what your psychiatrist says, and any way that we can help you going forward with your taper. It may be difficult, but I suggest seeing each step on this journey as a success. 

[[sl...]]

Hi Nic!

I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling with insomnia; from your past experience it does sound like it's related to your Zyprexa switch, but I wouldn't expect so many months to recover this time. Honestly, waking up between 1-3am was my bread-and-butter for most of last year, including when I was on 1.5mg of clonazepam in the beginning. Everything I said in my earlier post about learning to fall back asleep was practiced in that early morning wake up; and if I didn't practice, if I got out of bed, or just kept worrying... no more sleep!

 

So I don't remember if I mentioned it, but my wife and I go to sleep at 8pm. We might take until 9pm to fall asleep, but usually it's sooner. I dose 0.5mg of melatonin (liquid) at 8pm every night with my PM clonazepam dose, and I've done this melatonin dose for over a year. It doesn't fix the mid-night wake up, and it doesn't work for me to take more melatonin in the early morning hours, but I think this 8pm low-dose helps me to stick with my early bedtime.

 

The reason we've kept an early bedtime was originally to mitigate the fallout of the 1-3am wake-ups. I track my sleep hours and if I can go to bed at 8pm, even if I wake up at 2am and stay awake until the morning (it happened many times) I'm still getting ~6 hours of sleep. There was a time where I was lucky to get 4 hours, so the early bedtime helped tremendously. Sleep is very healing.

 

I'd like to see you making progress again on your diazepam taper, if that's your wish. I hope that your sleep disturbances might be something you can manage with non-medication options. It's encouraging to hear that you can fall back asleep, but I agree, sleep interrupted can take a toll.

 

What have you been trying to improve your sleep?

Do you think an earlier bedtime is possible?

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

Hearing that you have also woken up between 1-3am for a long time makes me feel better! I think it is normal for people to have wake ups in the night so I just have to learn to accept it. Luckily I have only been unable to get back to sleep once, and that night I think I had too much THC. I haven't had the THC drops since then and I've been fine. It is very admirable that you and your wife go to bed at 8pm. We are in a good routine with Angus - he goes to bed at 7pm every night and then we have dinner and usually start watching a show at 7:30pm before retiring to bed at 9pm. We could try and go to bed earlier - even if it's at 8:30pm. I will discuss it with my husband

 

Seeing as I am already waking up once in the night, I am wondering what will happen if I reduce my valium - seeing as reducing valium usually gives me insomnia. I'm wondering if I will start waking up more than once per night - which would be very difficult. I suppose I will only know once I attempt to reduce again. I am planning to hold my valium dose for another 13 nights and then I will most likely switch to liquid, even if I am still experiencing the 1-3am wake ups. I will look into melatonin to see if that helps.

 

We are currently in lockdown number 6 here - I'm living in the most locked down city in the world. All of the playgrounds have been taped up and police are patrolling some of them. We're having to find creative ways to entertain Angus! I hope that you and your wife have managed to avoid catching Covid. Are you also in lockdown?

 

- Nic

 

 

Hi Nic!

I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling with insomnia; from your past experience it does sound like it's related to your Zyprexa switch, but I wouldn't expect so many months to recover this time. Honestly, waking up between 1-3am was my bread-and-butter for most of last year, including when I was on 1.5mg of clonazepam in the beginning. Everything I said in my earlier post about learning to fall back asleep was practiced in that early morning wake up; and if I didn't practice, if I got out of bed, or just kept worrying... no more sleep!

 

So I don't remember if I mentioned it, but my wife and I go to sleep at 8pm. We might take until 9pm to fall asleep, but usually it's sooner. I dose 0.5mg of melatonin (liquid) at 8pm every night with my PM clonazepam dose, and I've done this melatonin dose for over a year. It doesn't fix the mid-night wake up, and it doesn't work for me to take more melatonin in the early morning hours, but I think this 8pm low-dose helps me to stick with my early bedtime.

 

The reason we've kept an early bedtime was originally to mitigate the fallout of the 1-3am wake-ups. I track my sleep hours and if I can go to bed at 8pm, even if I wake up at 2am and stay awake until the morning (it happened many times) I'm still getting ~6 hours of sleep. There was a time where I was lucky to get 4 hours, so the early bedtime helped tremendously. Sleep is very healing.

 

I'd like to see you making progress again on your diazepam taper, if that's your wish. I hope that your sleep disturbances might be something you can manage with non-medication options. It's encouraging to hear that you can fall back asleep, but I agree, sleep interrupted can take a toll.

 

What have you been trying to improve your sleep?

Do you think an earlier bedtime is possible?

[[sl...]]

Hi Nic,

Your lockdowns have numbers! That sounds scary. And the most locked down city in the world! Wow. I'm sorry to hear this.

 

No lockdown here; just the opposite really. It seems like aside from a few random people wearing masks, most people are just going about like "normal". Stores don't require masks, usually. The only current requirement is...

 

Masks are still mandatory for all individuals on public and private transportation systems (including rideshares, livery, taxi, ferries, MBTA, Commuter Rail and transportation stations), in healthcare facilities and in other settings hosting vulnerable populations, such as congregate care settings.

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/covid-19-mask-requirements

 

I hope things improve where you are. We all need social connections and time outdoors.

 

Regarding diazepam reductions, yes, they will probably continue to bring up the challenge of insomnia. I hope an earlier bedtime helps you to feel more rested; I realize it cuts into your alone time with your husband, but maybe it will be worth the sacrifice. It's great that you already have a consistent bed-time routine; it sounds like you are getting almost all the sleep you can hope for with a child and some withdrawal related insomnia.

 

I'm sure that you can learn ways to sleep more soundly with practice.

I hope you continue to stabilize after the Zyprexa disturbance and can continue to make progress on your benzo taper with minimal symptoms. 

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

I hope all is well with you

 

The thought of everyone just going about like "normal" (during these covid times) makes me slightly jealous! Haha. I am just so over these lockdowns by this point. Atleast we can still enjoy the outdoors and go for nice walks. I live in an area full of trees and with many nice bush walks. Is it similar where you live?

 

So just a couple of updates. Instead of waking between 1am and 3am, for the last few mornings I have woken up at 4am which is much more manageable for me. I feel pretty confident that I want to make another valium cut on the 2nd of September. Secondly, I have decided that I definitely don't want to take the risk of moving onto liquid. Trying to transition to the Zyprexa wafer was a nightmare and I feel that it was a warning. My main worry with cutting and weighing was that my 0.001g scales jump around too much, but I have worked out that I can use my solid and trusty 0.01g scale to make reductions. I will reduce by 0.02g at a time which always equals either a 0.23mg or 0.24mg reduction. So this should work out well!

 

It must be approaching night time there, so I hope you have a good sleep. But if you read this on Saturday morning, happy weekend!

 

Big thanks,

 

Nic

 

Hi Nic,

Your lockdowns have numbers! That sounds scary. And the most locked down city in the world! Wow. I'm sorry to hear this.

 

No lockdown here; just the opposite really. It seems like aside from a few random people wearing masks, most people are just going about like "normal". Stores don't require masks, usually. The only current requirement is...

 

Masks are still mandatory for all individuals on public and private transportation systems (including rideshares, livery, taxi, ferries, MBTA, Commuter Rail and transportation stations), in healthcare facilities and in other settings hosting vulnerable populations, such as congregate care settings.

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/covid-19-mask-requirements

 

I hope things improve where you are. We all need social connections and time outdoors.

 

Regarding diazepam reductions, yes, they will probably continue to bring up the challenge of insomnia. I hope an earlier bedtime helps you to feel more rested; I realize it cuts into your alone time with your husband, but maybe it will be worth the sacrifice. It's great that you already have a consistent bed-time routine; it sounds like you are getting almost all the sleep you can hope for with a child and some withdrawal related insomnia.

 

I'm sure that you can learn ways to sleep more soundly with practice.

I hope you continue to stabilize after the Zyprexa disturbance and can continue to make progress on your benzo taper with minimal symptoms. 

[[sl...]]

It's Saturday! But unfortunately it's "bed-time for benzos". I will reply tomorrow!

[[sl...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

I hope all is well with you

 

The thought of everyone just going about like "normal" (during these covid times) makes me slightly jealous! Haha. I am just so over these lockdowns by this point. Atleast we can still enjoy the outdoors and go for nice walks. I live in an area full of trees and with many nice bush walks. Is it similar where you live?

 

So just a couple of updates. Instead of waking between 1am and 3am, for the last few mornings I have woken up at 4am which is much more manageable for me. I feel pretty confident that I want to make another valium cut on the 2nd of September. Secondly, I have decided that I definitely don't want to take the risk of moving onto liquid. Trying to transition to the Zyprexa wafer was a nightmare and I feel that it was a warning. My main worry with cutting and weighing was that my 0.001g scales jump around too much, but I have worked out that I can use my solid and trusty 0.01g scale to make reductions. I will reduce by 0.02g at a time which always equals either a 0.23mg or 0.24mg reduction. So this should work out well!

 

It must be approaching night time there, so I hope you have a good sleep. But if you read this on Saturday morning, happy weekend!

 

Big thanks,

 

Nic

 

Hi Nic!

I'm sorry to have bragged about relative freedoms; it's great to hear that you can get out for walks in nature. We have the Atlantic ocean with beautiful sandy beaches and forests. The heavy rain of this summer has meant abundant mushrooms and my wife likes to harvest and eat what she can identify. Black trumpets, chanterelles, milk caps, and boletes seem the most abundant lately, but yesterday she came back with a bright orange mass of "chicken of the woods" the size of my head. 

 

This is your winter-time, right? Is it still enjoyable to go for walks? Our winters are frigid and snowy.

 

Thanks for the updates. I'm glad to hear your sleep has improved. Lately I also have been waking up a little earlier than I'd like to; I just use the time to lie on my back in bed, meditating, reflecting, dreaming and scanning my body.

 

Your approach to dry tapering with your 0.01mg scale makes sense to me; it's pushing the limit of that unit by weighing so close to it's minimum value, but I think with diazepam this should still work. I agree that switching to a liquid, especially the commercial variant, carries a number of risks; if you can taper off the medicine without it, you may be saving yourself a fair amount of suffering. Most importantly, you made this decision and I hear why it makes sense to you. I believe you can trust yourself in this process.

 

It looks like your next cut is in just a few days. How long are you planning to hold between cuts?

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

I hope you enjoyed your weekend! You are totally allowed to brag about your "relative freedoms"  . Wow it would be amazing to be near beaches and forests... Sounds like a wonderful area to live in. I would love to be able to walk on a beach - it is so calming hearing the sound of the sea. My closest beach is about an hour away. I am very impressed by your wife's ability to harvest mushrooms! I love mushrooms. Haha the "chicken of the woods" mushrooms sound interesting. I can only imagine your reaction when you first saw them.

 

We are transitioning into Spring here so the weather is finally warming up. It's a great time of the year because it's not cold and not too hot either. I can imagine it's still quite hot for you? I wouldn't mind having snow - it must be cozy indoors with the snow outside. I can't remember the last time I saw snow.

 

Great idea to relax in bed instead of getting up once you wake earlier than expected. I have also learnt to enjoy early wake ups.

 

Seeing as I am reducing my dose in a few days I decided to prepare 2 weeks worth of pills. I cut a 1/4 of a 2mg pill into a sliver and tried to weigh it on my 0.01g scale but as you predicted - the scale didn't pick up the weight. Luckily I have a couple of Gem20 0.001g scales so I bit the bullet and got used to using one of them to weigh the pieces. I am now confident that I will be able to use the Gem20 from now on. It does jump around a bit, but it's still relatively accurate. I plan to hold 2 weeks in-between cuts. Do you think that will be an adequate amount of time? 

 

Hi Slownsteady,

 

I hope all is well with you

 

The thought of everyone just going about like "normal" (during these covid times) makes me slightly jealous! Haha. I am just so over these lockdowns by this point. Atleast we can still enjoy the outdoors and go for nice walks. I live in an area full of trees and with many nice bush walks. Is it similar where you live?

 

So just a couple of updates. Instead of waking between 1am and 3am, for the last few mornings I have woken up at 4am which is much more manageable for me. I feel pretty confident that I want to make another valium cut on the 2nd of September. Secondly, I have decided that I definitely don't want to take the risk of moving onto liquid. Trying to transition to the Zyprexa wafer was a nightmare and I feel that it was a warning. My main worry with cutting and weighing was that my 0.001g scales jump around too much, but I have worked out that I can use my solid and trusty 0.01g scale to make reductions. I will reduce by 0.02g at a time which always equals either a 0.23mg or 0.24mg reduction. So this should work out well!

 

It must be approaching night time there, so I hope you have a good sleep. But if you read this on Saturday morning, happy weekend!

 

Big thanks,

 

Nic

 

Hi Nic!

I'm sorry to have bragged about relative freedoms; it's great to hear that you can get out for walks in nature. We have the Atlantic ocean with beautiful sandy beaches and forests. The heavy rain of this summer has meant abundant mushrooms and my wife likes to harvest and eat what she can identify. Black trumpets, chanterelles, milk caps, and boletes seem the most abundant lately, but yesterday she came back with a bright orange mass of "chicken of the woods" the size of my head. 

 

This is your winter-time, right? Is it still enjoyable to go for walks? Our winters are frigid and snowy.

 

Thanks for the updates. I'm glad to hear your sleep has improved. Lately I also have been waking up a little earlier than I'd like to; I just use the time to lie on my back in bed, meditating, reflecting, dreaming and scanning my body.

 

Your approach to dry tapering with your 0.01mg scale makes sense to me; it's pushing the limit of that unit by weighing so close to it's minimum value, but I think with diazepam this should still work. I agree that switching to a liquid, especially the commercial variant, carries a number of risks; if you can taper off the medicine without it, you may be saving yourself a fair amount of suffering. Most importantly, you made this decision and I hear why it makes sense to you. I believe you can trust yourself in this process.

 

It looks like your next cut is in just a few days. How long are you planning to hold between cuts?

[[sl...]]

Hi Nic,

I'm glad to hear you've learned to enjoy your early wake ups!

 

It sounds like great weather where you are. Similar to here actually; our summer has been relatively cool, hot and muggy sometimes, but unusually wet and yesterday I was in a sweater. Still nothing to complain about; barefoot walks around the neighborhood, sunshine, some garden crops are doing better than others. I hope it gets hot again before the fall so that I can go back in the ocean; I'm reluctant to swim in that ice-bath when it's not broiling outside.

 

Oh, snow is wonderful the first time of the season, then it's just work. It is definitely more fun with a woodstove, which we don't have at the moment and miss.

 

Down to business!

Seeing as I am reducing my dose in a few days I decided to prepare 2 weeks worth of pills. I cut a 1/4 of a 2mg pill into a sliver and tried to weigh it on my 0.01g scale but as you predicted - the scale didn't pick up the weight. Luckily I have a couple of Gem20 0.001g scales so I bit the bullet and got used to using one of them to weigh the pieces. I am now confident that I will be able to use the Gem20 from now on. It does jump around a bit, but it's still relatively accurate. I plan to hold 2 weeks in-between cuts. Do you think that will be an adequate amount of time? 

 

I don't understand why you're weighing a sliver of a 2mg tablet. Aren't you trying to take 2.25mg after your reductions? I would suggest weighing this all at once. A 2mg tablet, plus whatever pill weight is necessary to make the combined pill weight equal to 2.25mg. You CAN just weigh the 0.25mg portion, but there is a trick to doing this...

 

Earlier I was referring to taking 0.02mg reductions as very close to the minimum value of your 0.01mg scale; I don't know all the science-y words for it, but I meant the degree of accuracy that your scale uses (0.01mg). I wasn't talking about weighing something small, although that can be an issue too because scales have a weight-range and the low end sometimes won't register. A trick that works for this is to use a known weight, like one of the calibration weights, and to weigh your tablet piece on top of this, ignoring the value of the added weight when considering your tablet. The goal is to bring the sample weight up to near the middle of the weight-range of the scale. Ex. a 50g max weight scale, using one 25g calibration weight plus the tablet pieces.

 

This may seem a mute point since you're working with the Gem20 scales, but the same principles apply with these; this is why I've often seen YouTube dry tapering instructionals using their calibration weights on the scale while weighing. They don't tare out the calibration weight, but instead use it to keep the sample weight value somewhere in the middle of the scale weight-range, for better accuracy. This is all just my best understanding; I'm not an expert with scales or anything close.

 

So lastly, your question, which unfortunately I can't answer with any confidence. I think your body is the guide on this journey.

 

The simple answer is yes, two weeks is usually long enough for taperers to be aware of the effects of a diazepam reduction, so I would expect that's also long enough to know if you need to hold another week or can take another cut. With diazepam another cut might take a week or so to realize, which means even if you're still not 100%, there's a chance you will be improved by the next wave. I wouldn't push this though, since stabilizing between cut-and-hold reductions seems very important in my experience and not the "wasted time" I thought it was originally.

 

I hope this helps. 

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

It sounds like your Summer has been rather unusual! I do hope that you'll be able to have a couple of good swims before the weather starts cooling down. Yesterday was the first day of Spring and the weather has been amazing for the last two days. We've had lots of big walks. On one of our favourite walks there are goats, llamas and horses. We walk there with carrots and Angus loves feeding them.

 

Thank you for bringing to my attention that I need to weigh the sliver of pill along with the 2mg pill. I just assumed that all of the 2mg pills would weigh the same amount, which is why I have just been weighing the sliver. But I realised that the 2mg pills can often vary in weight, so I will be weighing both the sliver and the tablet from now on.

 

I was so ready to reduce to 2.25mg today but unfortunately on Saturday I forgot to take my pill for the first time ever. On Monday night I slept horribly - woke all night and then on Tuesday I was anxious all day. The anxiety thankfully calmed down the following day but my sleep hasn't recovered yet. I am going to hold for another week before reducing to 2.25mg. Such bad timing

 

Thank you for explaining the scale information - regarding the use of the calibration weight. Do you think it's important that I start using the calibration weight while I'm weighing on the Gem20? I have weighed out 14 days worth of 2.25mg without using the calibration weight.

 

I have also learnt that the holding period after a cut is not wasted time - it's during this time that we repair before the next cut.

 

Hi Nic,

I'm glad to hear you've learned to enjoy your early wake ups!

 

It sounds like great weather where you are. Similar to here actually; our summer has been relatively cool, hot and muggy sometimes, but unusually wet and yesterday I was in a sweater. Still nothing to complain about; barefoot walks around the neighborhood, sunshine, some garden crops are doing better than others. I hope it gets hot again before the fall so that I can go back in the ocean; I'm reluctant to swim in that ice-bath when it's not broiling outside.

 

Oh, snow is wonderful the first time of the season, then it's just work. It is definitely more fun with a woodstove, which we don't have at the moment and miss.

 

Down to business!

Seeing as I am reducing my dose in a few days I decided to prepare 2 weeks worth of pills. I cut a 1/4 of a 2mg pill into a sliver and tried to weigh it on my 0.01g scale but as you predicted - the scale didn't pick up the weight. Luckily I have a couple of Gem20 0.001g scales so I bit the bullet and got used to using one of them to weigh the pieces. I am now confident that I will be able to use the Gem20 from now on. It does jump around a bit, but it's still relatively accurate. I plan to hold 2 weeks in-between cuts. Do you think that will be an adequate amount of time? 

 

I don't understand why you're weighing a sliver of a 2mg tablet. Aren't you trying to take 2.25mg after your reductions? I would suggest weighing this all at once. A 2mg tablet, plus whatever pill weight is necessary to make the combined pill weight equal to 2.25mg. You CAN just weigh the 0.25mg portion, but there is a trick to doing this...

 

Earlier I was referring to taking 0.02mg reductions as very close to the minimum value of your 0.01mg scale; I don't know all the science-y words for it, but I meant the degree of accuracy that your scale uses (0.01mg). I wasn't talking about weighing something small, although that can be an issue too because scales have a weight-range and the low end sometimes won't register. A trick that works for this is to use a known weight, like one of the calibration weights, and to weigh your tablet piece on top of this, ignoring the value of the added weight when considering your tablet. The goal is to bring the sample weight up to near the middle of the weight-range of the scale. Ex. a 50g max weight scale, using one 25g calibration weight plus the tablet pieces.

 

This may seem a mute point since you're working with the Gem20 scales, but the same principles apply with these; this is why I've often seen YouTube dry tapering instructionals using their calibration weights on the scale while weighing. They don't tare out the calibration weight, but instead use it to keep the sample weight value somewhere in the middle of the scale weight-range, for better accuracy. This is all just my best understanding; I'm not an expert with scales or anything close.

 

So lastly, your question, which unfortunately I can't answer with any confidence. I think your body is the guide on this journey.

 

The simple answer is yes, two weeks is usually long enough for taperers to be aware of the effects of a diazepam reduction, so I would expect that's also long enough to know if you need to hold another week or can take another cut. With diazepam another cut might take a week or so to realize, which means even if you're still not 100%, there's a chance you will be improved by the next wave. I wouldn't push this though, since stabilizing between cut-and-hold reductions seems very important in my experience and not the "wasted time" I thought it was originally.

 

I hope this helps. 

[[sl...]]

Hi Nic!

I'm sorry to hear your WD symptoms spiked after you missed a dose. I'm glad you have a new date set for your next reduction. I hope your sleep keeps improving.

 

Yes, I would use a calibration weight to get to the middle of the weighing range if I was using a scale to adjust my tablets. The scale I have came with two, each weighing half the total capacity of the scale, so just one is what I'd use. With the Gem20 maxing at 20g I think the calibration weights are each 10g; in this case I'd use one, and weigh my tablets on top of the weight (after scale calibration of course).

 

You could re-weigh your prepared 2.25mg doses, checking a few for accuracy, and with the calibration-weight trick if they're looking like the weights are off maybe it's worth adjusting the whole batch. It's up to you, but a little quality control check might put your mind at ease or avoid an uncomfortable dosing experience.

 

I'm with you, I think repairs are happening even during the later portion of a hold when we're feeling fine. Just because we feel functional doesn't mean changes aren't taking place in our neurology; ideally all of tapering would be high functioning while adjusting to lower doses. Just another case for being patient and going slow; so difficult sometimes, yet so rewarding.

 

I love that you can visit and feed all those friendly ruminants! It does sound like you're enjoying amazing weather. I'm thankful that there's so much more to life than pills and taper schedules. 

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

Thanks very much for sharing the tips about weighing using the calibration weight. I spent my morning re-weighing the pill slivers on top of the 10g calibration weight and also with the 2mg tablet and thank goodness I did this! I had to adjust most tablets. I think I would've had a really rough ride if I didn't have your help. Now I'm patiently waiting for my sleep to improve a little so that I can make my next reduction.

 

Trying to switch to the Zyprexa wafers really did teach me that even though we feel fine and symptom free towards the end of our hold period - there is a lot more going on behind the scenes. I take it your taper is still going well?

 

It sounds like you have a really positive outlook on life, which is wonderful. It is Father's Day tomorrow for us Aussies, so I have bought my husband a fancy bottle of tequila that was apparently filtered through coconut charcoal (which he requested) and a box of very indulgent loaded cookies with a mini bottle of whiskey. He enjoys tequila/gin/whiskey as you can probably tell. I don't really feel like I'm missing out, not being able to drink alcohol. But sometimes I do crave a glass of red wine. Do you miss being able to enjoy a drink?

 

Hope you're having a great weekend.

 

Nic

 

Hi Nic!

I'm sorry to hear your WD symptoms spiked after you missed a dose. I'm glad you have a new date set for your next reduction. I hope your sleep keeps improving.

 

Yes, I would use a calibration weight to get to the middle of the weighing range if I was using a scale to adjust my tablets. The scale I have came with two, each weighing half the total capacity of the scale, so just one is what I'd use. With the Gem20 maxing at 20g I think the calibration weights are each 10g; in this case I'd use one, and weigh my tablets on top of the weight (after scale calibration of course).

 

You could re-weigh your prepared 2.25mg doses, checking a few for accuracy, and with the calibration-weight trick if they're looking like the weights are off maybe it's worth adjusting the whole batch. It's up to you, but a little quality control check might put your mind at ease or avoid an uncomfortable dosing experience.

 

I'm with you, I think repairs are happening even during the later portion of a hold when we're feeling fine. Just because we feel functional doesn't mean changes aren't taking place in our neurology; ideally all of tapering would be high functioning while adjusting to lower doses. Just another case for being patient and going slow; so difficult sometimes, yet so rewarding.

 

I love that you can visit and feed all those friendly ruminants! It does sound like you're enjoying amazing weather. I'm thankful that there's so much more to life than pills and taper schedules. 

[[sl...]]

Hi Nic!

I'm glad you checked your doses! Hopefully you'll feel more confident now when you're using them.

 

My taper is like most long tapers: full of discoveries. Overall my taper is going really well. I am currently stabilizing at 0.875mg and switching from a compounded liquid from pure clonazepam back to a homemade liquid from tablets. I'm investigating if the pure clonazepam is too potent and therefore throwing off my taper rate; I do a liquid/tablet hybrid, so if the liquid isn't bioequivalent to the tablets there can be issues. Hopefully going back to using tablets to make the liquid will resolve the problem.

 

I haven't had a drink in over a decade... so no, I don't miss it  . I miss travel and homesteading. It's been a long time since I felt well enough to travel or tackle home and garden projects. I believe these limitations will change and someday I will have these kinds of opportunities again, but I try not to look forward to them. I try to make today special, celebrate a miracle of existence, accept all the unending mysteries, and give myself credit for just living this long. I try anyways!

 

I also try to share a positive outlook. I think the stories we tell ourselves and others are fundamental to health and wellness. I think it's easier to do this in writing. I have a more challenging time celebrating life in-person, but it's a journey.

 

Thanks for asking. Let us know when you begin your taper! Or anything else that comes up. I'm wishing you easeful progress, when you're ready. 

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

How are you doing? It's been a while since I've been in touch. Basically, I have had endless rounds of bad insomnia since July. For over a year I was able to have a strong coffee every day, despite the fact that caffeine interacts with Zyprexa. After attempting to switch to Zyprexa wafers in July I all of a sudden started waking up at 12:00am - 1:00am in the morning and I was unable to get back to sleep. I worked out that I developed caffeine sensitivity and my theory is that switching to wafers destabilised my CNS. I attempted to completely stop having coffee but I felt absolutely terrible because Zyprexa is sedating, so now I have to very carefully weigh out a small amount of coffee every day. If I go even a tiny bit over my small set amount, the insomnia comes on. I am really regretting trying to switch to the wafers . A few days ago I finally felt ready to reduce valium again so I am now down to 2.25mg.

 

How did your switch back to the homemade liquid go? I hope your taper is still going really well. I really like that you try to make today special - focussing on the present. I can completely understand why you try not to look forward to the things you really miss, but I too believe that one day you will be able to travel and tackle home/garden projects again. You will one day be free from clonazepam and you will heal completely. I could take a leaf out of your book in terms of the positive thinking - I have been quite negative recently (especially about zyprexa) and it really brings me down.

 

Looking forward to hearing from you again! 

 

Hi Nic!

I'm glad you checked your doses! Hopefully you'll feel more confident now when you're using them.

 

My taper is like most long tapers: full of discoveries. Overall my taper is going really well. I am currently stabilizing at 0.875mg and switching from a compounded liquid from pure clonazepam back to a homemade liquid from tablets. I'm investigating if the pure clonazepam is too potent and therefore throwing off my taper rate; I do a liquid/tablet hybrid, so if the liquid isn't bioequivalent to the tablets there can be issues. Hopefully going back to using tablets to make the liquid will resolve the problem.

 

I haven't had a drink in over a decade... so no, I don't miss it  . I miss travel and homesteading. It's been a long time since I felt well enough to travel or tackle home and garden projects. I believe these limitations will change and someday I will have these kinds of opportunities again, but I try not to look forward to them. I try to make today special, celebrate a miracle of existence, accept all the unending mysteries, and give myself credit for just living this long. I try anyways!

 

I also try to share a positive outlook. I think the stories we tell ourselves and others are fundamental to health and wellness. I think it's easier to do this in writing. I have a more challenging time celebrating life in-person, but it's a journey.

 

Thanks for asking. Let us know when you begin your taper! Or anything else that comes up. I'm wishing you easeful progress, when you're ready. 

[[sl...]]

Hi Nicjk,

I've been meaning to message you to see how you were doing. I'm sorry to hear that your Zyprexa wafer trial has been so problematic. I'm going through a few sick days, and I think it's easy for all of us to think negatively about ourselves and our situation when we're uncomfortable.

 

Have you considered caffeine alternatives? Or is it that Zyprexa interacts with stimulants? I wonder if you could titrate your coffee and transition to living without it; I think stopping this habit suddenly could be difficult, but a slow titration might make it much easier. Maybe something like weighing and reducing your coffee beans or discarding a portion of your coffee cup. I have become a big fan of slow transitions!

 

Thank you so much for encouraging me to feel hopeful about my future. I'm sure one day I'll be a butterfly; for now it's been just munching leaves and turning to jelly in a womb of my own making...

 

So I understand you bravely took a 0.25mg reduction a few days ago. Exciting! Are you taking these reductions by weight, with the doses you mentioned preparing earlier? What's your intended hold period?

 

I hope you can make peace with your night-time meditations. I'm praying for you.

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

Apologies for another slow reply . Are you feeling better now? I agree with you that it's easy for us to think negatively about ourselves/ our situation when we're uncomfortable. I have been thinking about journalling my symptoms so that I can easily see that every time I feel bad it usually passes.

 

That is a very good idea to titrate off caffeine slowly. Though I tried going without caffeine for a few days and I felt so horrible because Zyprexa is extremely sedating - I feel like I need something to wake me up. Also, I wonder if caffeine might increase dopamine. I'm not sure, but I also felt a bit down without my usual coffee and as soon as I had a bit of caffeine my mood perked up a bit. I think I will just continue carefully weighing out the small amount of coffee that I'm having.

 

That is a beautiful analogy (about one day being a butterfly). I have no doubt that you will transform into a butterfly in good time!

 

So I am now on 2mg of valium. I made the reduction to 2.25mg and I had a few days of insomnia on the 4th day after my reduction, but then it passed. I held for just over two weeks and then I reduced by another .25mg. On this latest reduction I only had a couple of nights of mild broken sleep so I am feeling very hopeful!

 

I haven't had to do much math to work out the last reductions so I just want to check with you that I'm doing it correctly with the next reduction. Firstly, how many pills should I weigh to find an average pill weight? And secondly, say the average pill weight is 0.170g and obviously my pills are 2mg. By dividing 2mg by 0.17g I get 11.76mg. What would be the next step when trying to calculate how much 1.75mg should weigh? My brain doesn't work well with numbers :|

 

I appreciate you praying for me. You will also be in my prayers! You have been such a great support for me, so thanks once again.

 

 

Hi Nicjk,

I've been meaning to message you to see how you were doing. I'm sorry to hear that your Zyprexa wafer trial has been so problematic. I'm going through a few sick days, and I think it's easy for all of us to think negatively about ourselves and our situation when we're uncomfortable.

 

Have you considered caffeine alternatives? Or is it that Zyprexa interacts with stimulants? I wonder if you could titrate your coffee and transition to living without it; I think stopping this habit suddenly could be difficult, but a slow titration might make it much easier. Maybe something like weighing and reducing your coffee beans or discarding a portion of your coffee cup. I have become a big fan of slow transitions!

 

Thank you so much for encouraging me to feel hopeful about my future. I'm sure one day I'll be a butterfly; for now it's been just munching leaves and turning to jelly in a womb of my own making...

 

So I understand you bravely took a 0.25mg reduction a few days ago. Exciting! Are you taking these reductions by weight, with the doses you mentioned preparing earlier? What's your intended hold period?

 

I hope you can make peace with your night-time meditations. I'm praying for you.

[[sl...]]

Hi Nicjk,

I'm glad your 0.25mg reductions have been so functional! I think this is great news. Thanks for all your encouragement; I'm grateful to be able to help you.

 

I haven't had to do much math to work out the last reductions so I just want to check with you that I'm doing it correctly with the next reduction. Firstly, how many pills should I weigh to find an average pill weight? And secondly, say the average pill weight is 0.170g and obviously my pills are 2mg. By dividing 2mg by 0.17g I get 11.76mg. What would be the next step when trying to calculate how much 1.75mg should weigh? My brain doesn't work well with numbers :|

 

The way I understand pill weight math is that for example if you have an average weight of 0.170g per pill and you know that pill weight contains 2mg of medicine, the math is to divide that 0.170g into 2 pieces (one for each milligram) to get the amount of pill weight that contains each milligram of medicine. Then we can use this ratio of pill weight per milligram to solve for your desired pill weight to dose.

 

(average pill weight) / (milligrams of medicine in pill) = (pill weight per milligram)

ex. 0.17g / 2mg = 0.085g/mg

 

(desired milligrams of medicine) * (pill weight per milligram) = (desired pill weight)

ex. 1.75mg * 0.085g/mg = 0.149g (rounded up from 0.14875g)

 

As for how many pills to weigh for an average I suggest at least 10, but you could use 20 or 30 if you wanted for a potentially better average. Just divide the total weight by the number of pills used to get what your scale thinks is their average weight.

 

If you want to write back with your real pill weight average, and your results for pill weight per milligram and pill weight for 1.75mg I'm happy to check your results. 

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

I hope you've had a great weekend!

 

Thanks so much for explaining the formulas to me. It just so happened that my average pill weight was 0.17g - I weighed 20 pills. So that was lucky. I cut all my pills to the correct weight and last night I made the reduction to 1.75mg. My next reduction will obviously be to 1.5mg, so I take it the correct weight for that pill dose will be 0.128g?

 

Nic

 

Hi Nicjk,

I'm glad your 0.25mg reductions have been so functional! I think this is great news. Thanks for all your encouragement; I'm grateful to be able to help you.

 

I haven't had to do much math to work out the last reductions so I just want to check with you that I'm doing it correctly with the next reduction. Firstly, how many pills should I weigh to find an average pill weight? And secondly, say the average pill weight is 0.170g and obviously my pills are 2mg. By dividing 2mg by 0.17g I get 11.76mg. What would be the next step when trying to calculate how much 1.75mg should weigh? My brain doesn't work well with numbers :|

 

The way I understand pill weight math is that for example if you have an average weight of 0.170g per pill and you know that pill weight contains 2mg of medicine, the math is to divide that 0.170g into 2 pieces (one for each milligram) to get the amount of pill weight that contains each milligram of medicine. Then we can use this ratio of pill weight per milligram to solve for your desired pill weight to dose.

 

(average pill weight) / (milligrams of medicine in pill) = (pill weight per milligram)

ex. 0.17g / 2mg = 0.085g/mg

 

(desired milligrams of medicine) * (pill weight per milligram) = (desired pill weight)

ex. 1.75mg * 0.085g/mg = 0.149g (rounded up from 0.14875g)

 

As for how many pills to weigh for an average I suggest at least 10, but you could use 20 or 30 if you wanted for a potentially better average. Just divide the total weight by the number of pills used to get what your scale thinks is their average weight.

 

If you want to write back with your real pill weight average, and your results for pill weight per milligram and pill weight for 1.75mg I'm happy to check your results. 

[[sl...]]

Thanks so much for explaining the formulas to me. It just so happened that my average pill weight was 0.17g - I weighed 20 pills. So that was lucky. I cut all my pills to the correct weight and last night I made the reduction to 1.75mg. My next reduction will obviously be to 1.5mg, so I take it the correct weight for that pill dose will be 0.128g?

 

Hi Nic,

Well that was lucky! Yes, with 2mg tablets that your scale thinks weigh an average of 0.170g each, 1.5mg of medicine is found within 0.128g of pill weight. With diazepam I'd rather just cut 1.5mg from 2mg tablets with a decent pill splitter since it's exactly 3/4 of a tablet, but of course I support whatever method you feel more comfortable with. Either way you would need to go back to the scale again for 1.25mg.

 

How has your sleep been? 

[[Ni...]]

Hi Slownsteady,

 

How are you doing? I hope your tapering journey is still going well. Thank you for checking my calculation. I like your idea of using the pill splitter to cut 3/4 of a tablet. I will probably still weigh the pill pieces because I am so obsessive  .

 

In terms of my sleep, it is a little complicated. I made an error while making my coffee the other day and the fluctuation in caffeine caused me to wake up at 2am (usually when I make an error with caffeine the early wake ups can last for up to 2 weeks!) I really should try again to cut out caffeine. Then to make matters worse my usual valium reduction insomnia hit me as well, so at the moment I am waking up between 2:00am - 3:00am and then I'm experiencing very broken sleep after that. It's not fun I will wait for the sleep to improve significantly before making my next reduction. 

 

-Nic

 

Thanks so much for explaining the formulas to me. It just so happened that my average pill weight was 0.17g - I weighed 20 pills. So that was lucky. I cut all my pills to the correct weight and last night I made the reduction to 1.75mg. My next reduction will obviously be to 1.5mg, so I take it the correct weight for that pill dose will be 0.128g?

 

Hi Nic,

Well that was lucky! Yes, with 2mg tablets that your scale thinks weigh an average of 0.170g each, 1.5mg of medicine is found within 0.128g of pill weight. With diazepam I'd rather just cut 1.5mg from 2mg tablets with a decent pill splitter since it's exactly 3/4 of a tablet, but of course I support whatever method you feel more comfortable with. Either way you would need to go back to the scale again for 1.25mg.

 

How has your sleep been?