Restarting Generic Klonopin taper

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Bob7 - hope you mom is doing and feeling better.

Thanks.

Still not sure if stroke.

Slow but significant improvements each day.

[[Pa...]]

Are you getting any sleep?

[[se...]]

Bob7 - hope you mom is doing and feeling better.

Thanks.

Still not sure if stroke.

Slow but significant improvements each day.

 

Good news to hear. Quick question for you. For the taper approach you did, what purpose did the Microcrystalline Cellulose serve?

 

Thx

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Bob7 - hope you mom is doing and feeling better.

Thanks.

Still not sure if stroke.

Slow but significant improvements each day.

 

Good news to hear. Quick question for you. For the taper approach you did, what purpose did the Microcrystalline Cellulose serve?

 

Thx

When you get really low in dose, the scale cannot accurate measure small changes in weight.

By adding Microcrystalline Cellulose, you dilute your dose so that now the changes in weight for each small reduction can be accurately measured by the scale.

 

[[se...]]

Thank you. Right now I am on the fence about my next target cut on Sunday. I think I can cut, I am debating on whether to try 5% or 10% down from 0.39mg.

 

Or mabye try a hybrid...if I do a 10% cut every 15 days then I could semi DMT say a % of the 10% every 3 days...not sure

 

Symptoms are not horrible.

[[Pa...]]

I hate that those who are suffering have to experiment on themselves throughout this process.  Tapers need to be adjusted all the time and the only way to know if it's going to work is to chance it.  Whatever you decide I hope it works for you but try to make a decision as soon as possible, indecision is stressful and you know stress makes us feel worse. 

[[se...]]

So true

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Status update: On day 7 of 5% cut and hold down to 0.39 mg. Symptoms have been relatively rough. Symptoms feeling are burning sensation throughout body, some rapid heartbeat, shakiness. Average sleep about 6 hrs /day.

 

My next cut I am going to start today. I am going to try a direct micro dry cut taper of 0.001 g per day and see how that goes with my body. Will try that for 7-14 days and see how it goes.

 

Still some amazement of the significant effects of my taper this go around. Especially the tingling/burning. Do not know if it is the teva brand of klonopin I take now or just benzos in general.

 

 

[[sl...]]

Your sleep sounds okay; I personally aim for 8 hours a day. But the burning sensations, rapid heart rate and shakiness all sound like a nervous system in repair. I'm still pretty new to benzo withdrawal, but I personally wouldn't want to be taking cuts (even micro tapers) on top of these kinds of symptoms.

 

I may be missing the bigger picture of your journey; maybe there is a reason to cut amidst these kinds of withdrawal symptoms in your experience. From my experience and time around the forum, it seems like the suffering we experience in benzo tapering is either an underlying condition emerging through the reduction in dosage, OR it's the body struggling to recover with the rate at which the dosage is being reduced. In the second case, I've noticed that simply responding to symptoms with holds  seems to allow the body to catch up and makes the experience MUCH more comfortable, and may also speed up the taper/recovery in the long run.

 

I'm wondering, why are you in a hurry to keep cutting when your body is going through "rough" withdrawal symptoms? Would it be worth holding longer to stabilize, and see if these symptoms improve?

[[se...]]

Thanks and very valid points. The relatively rough symptoms are not all day. As I am typing this now the burning sensation has subsided some. Honestly yes I am in a hurry but know more enough now that rushing will backfire. It is the sliding scale of what basis to use to define as stable for the next reduction. I do not expect to be comfortable during the withdrawal, functional yes, but comfortable not as much. All my cuts have been cut and hold, so will see what the dry DMT will do.

 

I am not opposed to holding.

 

 

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I think you are currently at 0.39 mg of Klonopin which probably weighs around 0.133 grams.

 

So if you reduce 0.001 grams of weight on the scale per day, you will be done in 133 days.

 

Just for reference, when I got down to 0.125 mg of Klonopin, I started to reduce 0.001 mg of drug (not weight) per day.

 

Do you see the difference?  You are planning to reduce 0.001 grams per day on the scale whereas I was reducing 0.001 mg of drug per day.  Your plan will be a faster taper than I did (about 3 times faster).

 

All that said, I think your plan of reducing 0.001 grams per day is a good one as long as your symptoms are tolerable.

 

 

 

[[se...]]

Thanks Bob7. Pretty much. I measured 0.39mg at 0.131 grams. Most pills I weigh seem to hit around 0.168 g.

 

Yes I do see the difference. 0.125 mg is my benchmark. When I get to that then I re-plan to hit the finish line.

 

Am tracking symptoms, so far they are not fun but functional.

 

I am not held to one approach. I tried cut and hold and will see how dry cut DMT does and then reassess again.

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Equipment update. I was using the smart weight Gemini 20 scale to do my dry cuts. My scale fluctuated so much. I bought a MAXUS Dante Milligram Scale which seems to not jump around so much.

 

So far seems to work better for me.

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nice.

[[se...]]

I think you are currently at 0.39 mg of Klonopin which probably weighs around 0.133 grams.

 

So if you reduce 0.001 grams of weight on the scale per day, you will be done in 133 days.

 

Just for reference, when I got down to 0.125 mg of Klonopin, I started to reduce 0.001 mg of drug (not weight) per day.

 

Do you see the difference?  You are planning to reduce 0.001 grams per day on the scale whereas I was reducing 0.001 mg of drug per day.  Your plan will be a faster taper than I did (about 3 times faster).

 

All that said, I think your plan of reducing 0.001 grams per day is a good one as long as your symptoms are tolerable.

 

Bob7, thanks. Just curious on percentages. Can you check my math. Assume:  0.5 mg pill weights 0.168 grams and starting at 0.131 grams.

 

- So if I reduce 0.001 g per day for 14 days I have reduced to 0.117 grams. That equates to a 10.69% 14 day drop and a 5.35% drop every 7 days.

- So if I reduce 0.002 g per day for 14 days I have reduced to 0.103 grams. That equates to a 21.37% 14 day drop and a 10.69% drop every 7 days.

 

I do not know if I would try 0.002g daily drops as I believe that is pretty aggressive, will see. Will know 0.001 g drop per day outcome in a few days. If 0.001 g drop is not horrible (meaning I can function), then I might try 0.002 g drop for a week or two to see how it goes and guage. I am sure I cannot do that at the lower dose.

 

thx seekingtoheal

 

 

[[...]]

I think you are currently at 0.39 mg of Klonopin which probably weighs around 0.133 grams.

 

So if you reduce 0.001 grams of weight on the scale per day, you will be done in 133 days.

 

Just for reference, when I got down to 0.125 mg of Klonopin, I started to reduce 0.001 mg of drug (not weight) per day.

 

Do you see the difference?  You are planning to reduce 0.001 grams per day on the scale whereas I was reducing 0.001 mg of drug per day.  Your plan will be a faster taper than I did (about 3 times faster).

 

All that said, I think your plan of reducing 0.001 grams per day is a good one as long as your symptoms are tolerable.

 

Bob7, thanks. Just curious on percentages. Can you check my math. Assume:  0.5 mg pill weights 0.168 grams and starting at 0.131 grams.

 

- So if I reduce 0.001 g per day for 14 days I have reduced to 0.117 grams. That equates to a 10.69% 14 day drop and a 5.35% drop every 7 days.

- So if I reduce 0.002 g per day for 14 days I have reduced to 0.103 grams. That equates to a 21.37% 14 day drop and a 10.69% drop every 7 days.

 

I do not know if I would try 0.002g daily drops as I believe that is pretty aggressive, will see. Will know 0.001 g drop per day outcome in a few days. If 0.001 g drop is not horrible (meaning I can function), then I might try 0.002 g drop for a week or two to see how it goes and guage. I am sure I cannot do that at the lower dose.

 

thx seekingtoheal

Seeking,

 

I carefully checked your math and it is perfect.

 

You are doing everything very well.  In particular, I like how you gauge your reductions based on your symptoms. 

 

Three advice items I give all the time:

(1) You want to taper at a rate where your symptoms are tolerable. 

(2) Be watchful because, if you go too fast, reductions made weeks ago and add up and hit you all at once.

(3) Do not discount the role of anxiety in feeding your symptoms.  Learn natural ways to cope with anxiety.

 

Bob

[[se...]]

Thanks. So far microtaper daily taper is going ok, just 4 days in. Still the shaking and some tingling/burning sensation.

[[se...]]

My update:

 

Basically near the 7th of my daily micro taper of 0.001g to hit my target of 0.37mg. The week has not been horrible but not great either. My symptoms are very similar to when I did my cut and hold symptoms; shakiness, jitteriness, burning/tingling in hands and feet and some heart palpations.

 

Starting on 4/18 I am going to try to do a drop of 0.002g weight every day and see how I do. My 7 day target would be to get to 0.110g weight and approximately 0.33 mg dosage. Will be gauging how I do and monitor my symptoms and always be prepared that it could catch up with me.

 

As many have noted using scales to do a daily micro taper is challenging at best. The scales do fluctuate and you will never be exact. If I can get to 0.001 or 0.002 g consistently that is what I am going with and try to track weekly progression.

 

I am shooting to get down to .1125 mg and then evaluate either Bob7's method or doing a liquid based titration method.

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You are dong very well.

Yes, the scale do vary but benzos stay in the blood long enough that your body will be ok with a little higher one day and a little lower the next.

 

[[se...]]

Thanks for all of your help. I hope your mother continues to improve.

[[se...]]

My update: Just started my 0.002g (0.5 mg pill/avg weight 0.168 g) cut last night. I tolerated 0.001g daily cuts and will see if I can do 0.002 daily cuts. If it gets to rough then I will revert back to 0.001 g per day. Tonight's dosage will be approximately 0.357 mg. Symptoms remain consistent, shaking, jitteriness, burning/tingling in hands and feet and some heart palpations.

[[Pa...]]

Good for you for experimenting a bit, I like how you're keeping such good track of your symptoms so you can make good judgement calls.  Your symptoms sound pretty miserable though, are you able to do what you need to do to stay engaged in your life?

[[se...]]

Hello seekingtoheal; glad I could help. Some of your words don't make sense to me. You said something about micro tapering being a lot of "overhead". Do you mean it's a lot of thinking? I agree the math is tedious, if that's what you meant; that's why I use a website to generate my DMT schedule....

 

Here is the specific page for dry tapering: http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/direct/directForm.php

 

This form will generate a DMT based on the dry weight of your pills and the number and quantity of your daily doses. It's like magic! I couldn't DMT without it. I use a slightly different form from the same site for my liquid/tablet hybrid DMT.

 

I hope I understood your "overhead" reference; if not please clarify. You might really enjoy doing a DMT since you have a scale. It wouldn't be any more work than the weighing and cutting you'll have to do for a cut-and-hold, plus a DMT is gentler on your nervous system.

 

Let me know what you think! And congrats on all your progress so far!

 

slowsteady FYI I cannot get the site to work for me anymore. It keeps defaulting to 5% and I cannot produce any data. Maybe I am doing something wrong. I just tried doing a dry taper of klonopin with 0.5 mg pill, 1.68 total of 10 pills, 0.37 mg starting dose with a start date and 10% reduction over 14 days. Once I put in the daily dose amount it keeps defaulting to 5% but produces no data.

 

thx seekingtoheal

[[se...]]

Good for you for experimenting a bit, I like how you're keeping such good track of your symptoms so you can make good judgement calls.  Your symptoms sound pretty miserable though, are you able to do what you need to do to stay engaged in your life?

 

Thanks Pamster. Yes I can function but feeling it right now. Trying to taper with tinnitus is rough. 0.002 g is at the high end, about 11% over 7 days, so I will try a couple of days... if too rough then will revert back to 0.001 g DMT a day.

[[Pa...]]

I hate to see your symptoms get worse, its tough to calm them down.  Is the tinnitus disrupting what sleep you can get?