Someone found something, Jordan Peterson's family

[[di...]]

Just booked 10 sessions for next week in Prague. A little nervous about making me worse now though. I really hope not

That's big. I'll be really interested to hear how you get on.

[[Fi...]]

following & found this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5470223/

[[Be...]]

Interesting article about the Xenon.  It would be nice if they were administered in a whippit-type packet.

[Guest [pa...]]

Dr. Ramah in Belgrade, RS charges €200 for 3 hour flumazenil infusion, and €1500 for four day infusion (ultrarapid detox using flumazenil, probably better and far safer to just taper slowly and then get 3 hour infusions at least one month post-jump).

[[Ch...]]

Pacenik.

 

Can you let us know when you are getting your treatment?

 

Also how we contact DR Ramah, I emailed 2 weeks ago however had no response.

[[...]]

Dr. Ramah in Belgrade, RS charges €200 for 3 hour flumazenil infusion, and €1500 for four day infusion (ultrarapid detox using flumazenil, probably better and far safer to just taper slowly and then get 3 hour infusions at least one month post-jump).

 

Is there any reason to believe Dr. Ramah could be where Dr. Peterson went? Is he an anesthesiologist as well?

I only gravitated toward the Vorobiev Clinic because they specifically mention the fact that they work with anesthesiologists, which Dr. Peterson mentioned. As well as, obviously, being in Serbia. I saw it mentioned elsewhere online too, as a potentiality, as that place seems to be the most prominent detox center in Serbia.

 

Could it be that he went elsewhere still?

 

I spoke to the Vorobiev Clinic on the phone this morning and asked more about what their protocol would be in treating someone with benzo issues that was not doing a rapid detox... They were very nice, but I wasn't particularly impressed with the protocol... They continued to reiterate they would need to see me there to tell me exactly. But then confirmed that the aforementioned 'psychostabilizers' are just antidepressants. So, they said I would get the antidepressants (maybe Seroquel they said), do vitamin and amino acid infusions to help heal my receptors, and then psychotherapy... Not much else. Of course, aside from mentioned the possible addition of Ibogaine if I was interested. When I asked about Xenon, they said that I could do that too... But, I don't know if they have some magic, secret benzo treatment beyond that. At least not for someone that isn't detoxing... Or maybe they do and they're not completely aware of its potential. I.e. Maybe they're using Xenon for anesthesia during rapid detox and it's actually what helped repair Dr. Peterson's glutamate system. Or maybe they use flumazenil for rapid detox and that is the true healer (or both)... But they're not mentioning it as much as they feel that it's more suitable in a rapid detox setting....??

 

Or...... alas, maybe it is another clinic such as Dr. Ramah or elsewhere. I don't know. But that's what I gathered this morning.

 

For now, I am anxiously awaiting to hear about Having a mare's experiences and results with Xenon.

[Guest [pa...]]

Pacenik.

 

Can you let us know when you are getting your treatment?

 

Also how we contact DR Ramah, I emailed 2 weeks ago however had no response.

I'm going tomorrow.

 

He only got back from his vacation today.

 

Is there any reason to believe Dr. Ramah could be where Dr. Peterson went? Is he an anesthesiologist as well?

 

No, I'm pretty sure Peterson went to Dr. Vorobiev's VIP Clinic. Maybe in VIP Clinic they tailor treatment according to your needs but I didn't much like the regular Vorobiev Clinic, for two reasons. First of all, they are treating everyone as if you were a polydrug abuser in need of detox, even if you're off benzos. And second that they don't want to tell you what they are going to do. Maybe they do flumazenil, it certainly makes more sense than vitamins and amino acids. But who knows? They're not telling. Also xenon is fine, but ibogaine doesn't make much sense for treating benzo withdrawal. In fact, ibogaine clinics tend to follow the Ashton Manual.

[[Ch...]]

Thanks for replying,

 

I wish you all the best for tomorrow; that everything works out well and hope to hear how you got on soon.

[[...]]

I too wish you the best of luck, pacenik!

 

What does a flumazenil treatment look like?

How long is each treatment? Will you be treated multiple days?

[Guest [pa...]]

Thank you everyone!

 

Well, it depends on the protocol. Dr. Ramah gives it IV, like receiving chemotherapy. You sit on a chair for 3 hours hooked up on an infusion.

[[Fo...]]

I’m a bit late to this party but may have some relevant information.  Shortly after that interview was posted I contacted someone close with Jordan Peterson trying to get some more information as I am currently dealing with Akathisia myself.  This was the reply I received. 

 

—————-

Hey! I'm really sorry to hear that... obviously, I can't give medical advice, but the "corrector" class of medication seemed to have helped with akathesia... that's stuff like PK Mertz (Amantatine) and Akineton (Biperiden). Other than that, Gravol (Dramamine) seemed to have been effective, along with seroquel (that was a good one).

 

Be really careful with this though - akathesia is one step away from suicide, if it goes badly. The clinic he is at (which I can't disclose) recommended this place for a detox program - they're apparently affordable, and have a lot of experience dealing with various tapers. Disregard the name. This is their contact:

 

desintoxclinique@drvorobjev.rs

https://heroindetoxeurope.com/

 

I wish you good luck, resilience, and a full recovery.

——-———

 

It’s not what I was hoping for as I was hoping they had found some “magic bullet” treatment.  Granted, this is related to Akathisia specifically and not benzo protracted withdrawal.  I was surprised at the seroquel comment specifically as it is a medication known to cause Akathisia. 

 

Unfortunately the individual has stopped responding to me so I haven’t been able to learn anything more. 

[[Fo...]]

On a side note.  As someone who has looked into ibogaine pretty extensively, it does seem to possess an ability to reset brain receptors.  However, everything I’ve read states it has no effect on GABA receptors and therefore no application in benzo withdrawal.  Although it is an NMDA antagonist I believe. 

[[Ha...]]

Sorry to say but might have to postpone. Heads been spinning for past couple of days. Not sure if uncertainty has set me off or what. But don't feel upto it at the moment.

 

Sorry guys and gals

 

Edit: They have just contacted me saying they running low on Xenon, and could I postpone. So it looks like it will be a couple of weeks

[Guest [pa...]]

OK, returned from Belgrade. Received 0.5 mg of intravenous flumazenil during 3 hours. Muscle tension and cog fog are gone. Inner ear pressure / sound sensitivity / constant hissing still here, which would imply, I guess, that I either need 2 mg dose, or that it isn't benzo related at all. Also after infusion I started yawning a lot, which is a good thing.

[[Ha...]]

OK, returned from Belgrade. Received 0.5 mg of intravenous flumazenil during 3 hours. Muscle tension and cog fog are gone. Inner ear pressure / sound sensitivity / constant hissing still here, which would imply, I guess, that I either need 2 mg dose, or that it isn't benzo related at all. Also after infusion I started yawning a lot, which is a good thing.

 

Thanks for the update. This is also on my list.

[[Ch...]]

Pacenik,

 

So glad you had some changes for the better!

 

Please keep us up to date how your progress continues

[[...]]

Sorry to say but might have to postpone. Heads been spinning for past couple of days. Not sure if uncertainty has set me off or what. But don't feel upto it at the moment.

 

Sorry guys and gals

 

Edit: They have just contacted me saying they running low on Xenon, and could I postpone. So it looks like it will be a couple of weeks

 

I hope you feel better soon, Having a mare!

Hopefully a couple weeks will give you enough time to reset, relax, and calm your nerves so you are more comfortable going into the treatment.

 

I'm sure all will work out fine! ...Keep us posted on your updated plans for the coming weeks!

 

OK, returned from Belgrade. Received 0.5 mg of intravenous flumazenil during 3 hours. Muscle tension and cog fog are gone. Inner ear pressure / sound sensitivity / constant hissing still here, which would imply, I guess, that I either need 2 mg dose, or that it isn't benzo related at all. Also after infusion I started yawning a lot, which is a good thing.

 

Nice, pacenik! It's great to hear a positive update. I hope that the muscle tension and cog fog STAY gone.

Regarding the remaining symptoms that were unaddressed, I believe there is a third option.

 

What if it IS benzo related but not GABA related. Which is what we've been discussing here and other threads for a while. What if those issues are related to issues with your glutamate system being hyper-reactive/hyper-sensitive. That is, hypothetically, where the Xenon would come in. Flumazenil potentially resets the GABA system, but Xenon potentially (based on the papers and such we've posted) could reset/desensitize the glutamate system...

 

If a 2 mg dose doesn't do the trick, and the symptoms remain, I would consider trying Xenon!

[[Fo...]]

Strangely, I have access to research grade 99.999% xenon a couple of hours from me.  I feel like with the proper equipment a DIY xenon/oxygen treatment shouldn’t be too difficult to pull off. 

 

The things you consider when you’re life is a mess. 

[[...]]

Strangely, I have access to research grade 99.999% xenon a couple of hours from me.  I feel like with the proper equipment a DIY xenon/oxygen treatment shouldn’t be too difficult to pull off. 

 

The things you consider when you’re life is a mess.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure about that. It does seem to be fairly straightforward, but I'd still be worried I'd mess up and do too much or something. Lol... Does said provider offer administration of the xenon? Or just the xenon itself?

 

Treatments with it don't seem particularly expensive, so it may be safest/wisest to have the administration done somewhere if possible.

[[Ch...]]

Foreseason,

 

I like your thinking in terms of the self treatment.

Could be a viable option for those that are to unwell to travel.

 

Have you thoughts further of how you would do yourself? And have you any resources to share?

 

Where are you based that you can get access to xenon gas?

[Guest [pa...]]

OK, what happened to me was exactly as described in Lader study:

Benefits from flumazenil generally started to be felt within a few minutes of drug administration and built up to a peak effect over a few hours. Maximum relief usually lasted for the rest of the day with further partial relief for a few days. For most patients the benefit gradually faded but a few patients gave accounts of some symptoms returning more suddenly or forcefully the next day.

 

Repeated doses given between 4 days and 5 weeks later resulted in some additive and increasingly persistent effect though they had less immediate effect in terms of score reduction. This may be related to either reduced baseline score or increased expectation of relief each time. Several patients who experienced temporary relief each time were reluctant to have further doses because they could not face the possible return of symptoms afterwards.

The day before yesterday I received flumazenil, felt good. Yesterday I had intense anxiety and crying spells the whole day. Feeling better today though (can't really compare to baseline before flumazenil since I've burned myself and been bitten by bugs so I'm somewhat aggitated at the moment). I had different response than wolfie011 because he tapered off and received flumazenil in month 6 post-jump, whereas I'm basically in a cold-turkey state (rescue dose induced setback). I think flumazenil definitely works for PAWS, but my problem at the moment is glutamate. Doctor wants me to get infusions every 3 weeks for additive / persistant effect, like indicated in Lader study. I think I'll need to tackle glutamatergic system before I tackle my GABAergic system.

[[Ha...]]

OK, what happened to me was exactly as described in Lader study:

Benefits from flumazenil generally started to be felt within a few minutes of drug administration and built up to a peak effect over a few hours. Maximum relief usually lasted for the rest of the day with further partial relief for a few days. For most patients the benefit gradually faded but a few patients gave accounts of some symptoms returning more suddenly or forcefully the next day.

 

Repeated doses given between 4 days and 5 weeks later resulted in some additive and increasingly persistent effect though they had less immediate effect in terms of score reduction. This may be related to either reduced baseline score or increased expectation of relief each time. Several patients who experienced temporary relief each time were reluctant to have further doses because they could not face the possible return of symptoms afterwards.

The day before yesterday I received flumazenil, felt good. Yesterday I had intense anxiety and crying spells the whole day. Feeling better today though (can't really compare to baseline before flumazenil since I've burned myself and been bitten by bugs so I'm somewhat aggitated at the moment). I had different response than wolfie011 because he tapered off and received flumazenil in month 6 post-jump, whereas I'm basically in a cold-turkey state (rescue dose induced setback). I think flumazenil definitely works for PAWS, but my problem at the moment is glutamate. Doctor wants me to get infusions every 3 weeks for additive / persistant effect, like indicated in Lader study. I think I'll need to tackle glutamatergic system before I tackle my GABAergic system.

 

Are you considering Xenon? My head seems to be clearing, I can actually feel it adjusting which isn't pleasant! But will be contacting Prague again soon.

[Guest [pa...]]

Yes I am considering xenon. I booked a single session for a test run in this clinic.

[[Ch...]]

Fantastic Pacenik,

 

Great to know both treatment are available in Serbia.

 

Can you tell us when your having it? And cost etc

[Guest [pa...]]

Next week. The cost is €200 per session. They say it usually takes 3-7 sessions in a row for the reboot. I booked only one for trial. If it works out I may work out a plan for the reboot with them.