Someone found something, Jordan Peterson's family

[[Be...]]

I can feel it in myself too that I have too many glutamate receptors and they are overactive. 

[[De...]]

Hey Everyone,  What parameters do you use to sense for yourself whether you have too many glutamate receptors vs too few GABAA recptors?  Thanks in advance!

[[Ma...]]

Maugham,

 

You have basically quoted (almost) the benzobuddy mantra.  "Get clean, stay clean and eventually you will get better."  That is probably true.  There is also no conclusive proof that one single thing that will shorten the duration of recovery.  I will get to that in a moment.  But the idea that there is no proof that we have GABA and glutamate receptor damage is absolute preposterous.  The only thing on which experts disagree is which receptor damage, GABA or glutamate, is the dominant factor in benzo damage, or if it varies from individual to individual, and GABA or glutamate is more common from case to case.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but if it is an opinion, please qualify it as such, as I did below, "This is an educated guess."  I do not mean to insult you at all, but your idea that we do not know that benzo damage is GABA and glutamate receptor damage is simply not true.

 

Benzos activate our GABA receptors.  In response, they release GABA, and through various means, mostly the release of negative ions (anions) inhibit transmission.  Transmission of what?  Glutamate, and its receptor release of positive ions (cations).  In response to this band-aid, in the short term, we get the benefit of a benzo, we calm down, fall asleep, our seizure stops, whatever we took the benzo for happens.  But in the long term, two things happen.  The body is fooled into thinking it needs fewer GABA receptors and more glutamate receptors, and on average the current of anions decreases and cations increase.  None of this is speculation on my part.  This much we know is true.  If you do not accept this, spend some time on google like the rest of us have and read a few of the papers on benzo experiments.

 

I argue, and I use the word argue to mean, "present the case," that those who are sickest longest are "glutamate receptor damage dominant," because it both my own personal experience, what I have observed in the posts of others, and it makes logical sense. The body is designed to rebuild.  If ones GABAergic system is downregulated, the body is primed to rebuild it.  I believe, I cannot prove but it has been my experience and it makes sense, that those who are sick for 6-18 months and then feel fine fine fine, had almost all GABA downregulation.  Their bodies rebuilt, and they are healed.  But getting the body to downregulate an upregulated system is an unnatural process.  All of those with diseases of an overactive glutamate system are sick for life, epilepsy, IBS, autism, etc.  Then there is us, those in protracted benzo withdrawal.  I have drawn the conclusion that the over expression and overactivity of glutamate is why we are still sick.  Can I prove it? No.  Am I certain?  Yes, because as I said, I can feel it in myself, I have observed it in others, and it makes logical sense.

 

Now to the point of, "Tapering is the only approach."  For the past year or so, those of us posting on Chewing the Fat have been looking for something to successfully treat protracted benzo withdrawal.  A half dozen pretty good ideas have been kicked around, and presented research papers that support those ideas.  I agree with some, I disagree with some, I have no idea about others, but this is the place to "kick around" or "brainstorm" those ideas.  It is free discussion that facilitates our learning from each other.  I will stand behind anyone's right to present any idea he wishes, except those who say we should stop kicking around ideas.

 

If you don't want to kick around ideas, don't post here.

 

Is there a cure for protracted benzo withdrawal?  Not yet.  Does that mean we should stop trying?  Over my dead body.  To you my buddy, and to all reading, I will remind you of three things:

 

1.  There was once a man who decided we should close the patent office because everything worthwhile that could be invented had been invented already.  Thankfully, that idea was dismissed.

 

2.  There is a quote about the urgency of action often attributed to the late John Lewis, but when he said it he knew it is actually much older.  It has variations, but the gist is, "If not us, then who?  If not now, then when?"

 

So finally . . .

3.  It stands to reason that if there is something, benzos, antidepressants, or even trauma, that through a form of "chemical neuroplasticity" can shift our glutamatergic (and GABAergic) systems to dysfunction, then it stands to reason there should be something that can shift it to a more healthy neurotypical state.  We just have not found it.  Yet.

 

Remember, no one is "forcing you" to accept or even read these ideas.  All I am asking is that you or anyone else of similar thinking please do not post that we are wasting our time or that it is impossible.  I am asking politely, and I think it is a reasonable request.

 

Thank you.

 

Ramcon1

 

I think i have the right to state my opinion without qualifying it. What I said was not an educated guess but was based on a decent number of peer-reviewed articles I read on this topic. I first learned about GABA and glutamate in medical school a long time ago.

 

Let's discuss some of your arguments. You mention that benzos activate GABA receptors. Wrong. GABA activates the GABA receptors and benzos are positive allosteric modulators. In other words, if GABA doesn't activate the GABA receptors, benzos do nothing. Then you state that GABA receptors release GABA. Again wrong. They mediate the outflow of chloride ions but not GABA. You then state that glutamate and its receptor release positive ions. Very wrong. Glutamate receptors actually allow the influx into the cell through and not release (outflow) of positive ions (mostly calcium).

 

Nobody questions the existence of downregulation of the GABAergic system in benzo dependence. However, what this exactly means nobody knows. Some people think it's the actual disappearance of GABA receptors from the cell (membrane), others think other mechanisms are responsible, which I will not detail here.

 

Nobody can brainstorm in medicine and solve problems that way. Brainstorming has to be followed up with experiments and only if the experiments confirm the hypotheses can we make conclusions. So wrong again about how science works.

 

The causes of epilepsy, IBS and autism are unknown.

 

As of now, the only scientifically supported method to withdraw from benzos is by tapering. And I post what I think is right.

[[Be...]]

Maugham1, what is your opinion about rat scientific research studies and how they relate to the human body?  Why do they use mice and rats in human research studies.  I read a research article years ago about how rats that were administered benzo's long-term and then c/t'd off them had an increase in glutamate receptors and some had a 40% and 50% increase, and also they were scared to death afterwards and wouldn't explore their environment anymore.  I think it was called the open-arms exploratory platform or whatever.  It was many years ago when I read that article.  I wish I could find it again, but I can't.  The article also said that their GABA receptors weren't affected.  I also read that dementia is caused by overactive glutamate receptors. 

[[Ma...]]

Maugham1, what is your opinion about rat scientific research studies and how they relate to the human body?  Why do they use mice and rats in human research studies.  I read a research article years ago about how rats that were administered benzo's long-term and then c/t'd off them had an increase in glutamate receptors and some had a 40% and 50% increase, and also they were scared to death afterwards and wouldn't explore their environment anymore.  I think it was called the open-arms exploratory platform or whatever.  It was many years ago when I read that article.  I wish I could find it again, but I can't.  The article also said that their GABA receptors weren't affected.  I also read that dementia is caused by overactive glutamate receptors.

 

It depends. With regard to benzos, I also read that rats and mice also develop dependency. There are quite a few studies but no consensus on what is the mechanism behind it and what happens to the receptors.

[[di...]]

This is too much speculation about GABA and glutamate without any scientific support. There is no evidence that doing anything to glutamate receptors with memantine, Xenon, etc, will help with benzo withdrawal. There is no evidence for flumanezil either. By evidence I mean clinical trials.  Tapering is currently the only approach.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There's a big powerful lobbying group that would want to suppress such research. That counts for something.

 

I find your insistence on stifling discussion bizarre. Also, you just talk straight past people rather than addressing what was actually said/meant. It's annoying.

[Guest [pa...]]

I find your insistence on stifling discussion bizarre. Also, you just talk straight past people rather than addressing what was actually said/meant. It's annoying.

There are also many reasons why people need alternatives to tapering. Like being forced into cold-turkey, getting setbacked, benzos going toxic/paradoxical, etc. setbacks being probably the biggest one. You can't just reinstate and taper off every time you get a setback, but on the other hand you also don't want to live in perpetual fear of getting a setback.

[[ra...]]

Hey all yall.  Warning:  I had like 2 decent days and then my cold relapsed, so I am in a really bad mood. 

 

Maugham,

 

You clearly just want to put down what other people say, so please stop reading here.  There is no need to read discussions with which you fundamentally disagree.  I had no idea you had a medical background or I would not have short-cutted my response.  I was just trying to keep it simple.  Of course benzos are an allosteric modulator, and GABA receptors do not release GABA, they receive it.  And while this is a simplification, the following statement is absolutely true:  Ionotropic GABA receptors release anions and via their negative charge, "inhibit activation currents," and ionotropic glutamate receptors release cations, and thru their positive charge, "create activation currents." 

 

Diaz-e-bam,

I do not think anyone is "suppressing" research.  When a problem is big, it is human nature to suspect a conspiracy.  I believe our problem is well hidden by the millions who do well while still on the meds, and also it is a very difficult problem to solve.  That said, I like your "absence of evidence quote" a lot.  Our problem is real, in my opinion very well defined, and also will be solved, eventually.

 

Deanna,

If you want to know if you are GABA or glutamate damage dominant, the easiest way to tell is food and chemical sensitivities.  The GABA dominant have almost no food sensitivities (unless they had a previous intolerance or allergy) while the glutamate dominant tend to get revved up by every damn thing we eat or take.  Many foods, especially grains and vegetables, contain free glutamate, and rev us up.  The sweetener nutrasweet/aspartame is the worst offender, especially when heated like in jello or a hot beverage.  The heat liberates the aspartic acid, (The "A" in NMDA receptor) and HO-LY CROW will it rev the crap out of you if you are glutamate dominant.

 

Pacenik,

I do not know if you are male or female, and frankly I do not care.  I love you.    You get it right just about every time.  Yes!  We need to reverse the damage or we are going to live in fear of a setback for the rest of our lives.  How many "success stories" are there where people say "I am doing great, as long as I don't . . . " Drink alcohol.  Drink coffee.  Eat gluten, dairy, or whatever else.  F-me and F-this.  I was fearless and ate and drank any damn thing I wanted whenever I wanted before I got sick, and I will not consider myself well until I can eat and drink any damn thing whenever I want!

 

I am now going to return to the prone position and wait out the damn relapse of this damn cold.

 

(And Maugham.  All kidding aside dude, if you cannot post constructive criticism and/or further discussion, please don't post just to tear other people's ideas down.  My skin is thick, so you cannot "hurt" me, but other's here are more sensitive, and more importantly, it is not productive.)

 

Ramcon1

[[Ha...]]

Hey all yall.  Warning:  I had like 2 decent days and then my cold relapsed, so I am in a really bad mood. 

 

Maugham,

 

You clearly just want to put down what other people say, so please stop reading here.  There is no need to read discussions with which you fundamentally disagree.  I had no idea you had a medical background or I would not have short-cutted my response.  I was just trying to keep it simple.  Of course benzos are an allosteric modulator, and GABA receptors do not release GABA, they receive it.  And while this is a simplification, the following statement is absolutely true:  Ionotropic GABA receptors release anions and via their negative charge, "inhibit activation currents," and ionotropic glutamate receptors release cations, and thru their positive charge, "create activation currents." 

 

Diaz-e-bam,

I do not think anyone is "suppressing" research.  When a problem is big, it is human nature to suspect a conspiracy.  I believe our problem is well hidden by the millions who do well while still on the meds, and also it is a very difficult problem to solve.  That said, I like your "absence of evidence quote" a lot.  Our problem is real, in my opinion very well defined, and also will be solved, eventually.

 

Deanna,

If you want to know if you are GABA or glutamate damage dominant, the easiest way to tell is food and chemical sensitivities.  The GABA dominant have almost no food sensitivities (unless they had a previous intolerance or allergy) while the glutamate dominant tend to get revved up by every damn thing we eat or take.  Many foods, especially grains and vegetables, contain free glutamate, and rev us up.  The sweetener nutrasweet/aspartame is the worst offender, especially when heated like in jello or a hot beverage.  The heat liberates the aspartic acid, (The "A" in NMDA receptor) and HO-LY CROW will it rev the crap out of you if you are glutamate dominant.

 

Pacenik,

I do not know if you are male or female, and frankly I do not care.  I love you.    You get it right just about every time.  Yes!  We need to reverse the damage or we are going to live in fear of a setback for the rest of our lives.  How many "success stories" are there where people say "I am doing great, as long as I don't . . . " Drink alcohol.  Drink coffee.  Eat gluten, dairy, or whatever else.  F-me and F-this.  I was fearless and ate and drank any damn thing I wanted whenever I wanted before I got sick, and I will not consider myself well until I can eat and drink any damn thing whenever I want!

 

I am now going to return to the prone position and wait out the damn relapse of this damn cold.

 

(And Maugham.  All kidding aside dude, if you cannot post constructive criticism and/or further discussion, please don't post just to tear other people's ideas down.  My skin is thick, so you cannot "hurt" me, but other's here are more sensitive, and more importantly, it is not productive.)

 

Ramcon1

 

Interesting to hear about being GABA or Glutamate dominant, I've got the added bonus of serotonin too. Been thinking about it a lot (too much) but didn't think there was any way of knowing for sure the main culprit.

 

As you also mentioned being able to get my life back and be able to eat and drink what I want is the only thing I will accept

[[ra...]]

Sky,

 

Good to see you. I am certain you made an excellent post.  I can feel it, but my brain just isn't working.  I have actually set a reminder in my calendar for 2 weeks an again 3 weeks to come back and read it when the fog clears.

 

And Having,

 

I will promise you the food sensitivity thing is a sure fire test.  Aspartame and parmesan cheese.  Triple whoa.  I also at one time knew exactly how serotonin can go wrong.  It is all about serotonin's ability to mess with glutamate receptors.  Maybe when I come back with my brain.  Sigh.

 

Ramcon1

[[Ma...]]

This is too much speculation about GABA and glutamate without any scientific support. There is no evidence that doing anything to glutamate receptors with memantine, Xenon, etc, will help with benzo withdrawal. There is no evidence for flumanezil either. By evidence I mean clinical trials.  Tapering is currently the only approach.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There's a big powerful lobbying group that would want to suppress such research. That counts for something.

 

I find your insistence on stifling discussion bizarre. Also, you just talk straight past people rather than addressing what was actually said/meant. It's annoying.

 

I support research into every aspect of benzo withdrawal wholeheartedly. I stated my opinion and did not stifle discussion. Please discuss away.

[[Ma...]]

 

 

(And Maugham.  All kidding aside dude, if you cannot post constructive criticism and/or further discussion, please don't post just to tear other people's ideas down.  My skin is thick, so you cannot "hurt" me, but other's here are more sensitive, and more importantly, it is not productive.)

 

Ramcon1

 

The fact that you don't like my criticism doesn't mean that other people won't find it constructive. My goal is not to hurt you or anybody. I believe that my medical knowledge based on an MD and decades of medical research is helpful to some. I'm also open to new ideas if they are supported by scientific data. But the ideas raised at the beginning of this thread are not. I want people not to spend (tens of) thousands of dollars, pounds, or euros on unproven therapies (Xenon, flumanezil) just to see their hopes for healing being crushed.

 

 

[[Be...]]

I guess with the rat and mice studies they need to be duplicated by other research labs to even begin to have some validity.  I did see the slides of the rats' brains in that one study and the increased glutamate receptors lit up like a Christmas tree.  I guess no one really wants to do much research on the damage that benzo's can do since big Pharma makes so much money on them.  No one will fund the studies. 

[[Ma...]]

I guess with the rat and mice studies they need to be duplicated by other research labs to even begin to have some validity.  I did see the slides of the rats' brains in that one study and the increased glutamate receptors lit up like a Christmas tree.  I guess no one really wants to do much research on the damage that benzo's can do since big Pharma makes so much money on them.  No one will fund the studies.

 

You're absolutely right, studies need to be duplicated, scientific ideas retested, and finally new therapies tested in clinical trials. These issues won't be solved here on benzobuddies.

[[...]]

The worst part about these forums is when fruitful theoretical conversations on science and ideas (literally what ‘chewing the fat’ is for) get hijacked and derailed by a random naysayer reciting the ever-repeated doom and gloom mantra that nothing can help but tapers and time.

 

We all know. We know the mantra. We’ve heard it over and over ad infinitum. With all due respect, if you are uninterested in theoretical science that extends beyond the taper/time mantra, why even post here? There are plenty of other threads about tapering and whatever else you want to talk about. People come here to be hopeful and productive and talk about ideas. We know they’re not proven. We know time is the best answer we’ve got now. But for a lot of us, that’s just not enough. There are not going to be clinical trials. Not any time soon. No way. And if they started tomorrow they’re still a decade away from producing anything of use to mainstream medicine. We would OBVIOUSLY all prefer for tons of brilliant and motivated scientists to come together and dedicate their time to our cause... but that’s not going to happen. All we have is our group, our minds, our energy. If you’re on this page, you should know that mainstream medicine simply doesn’t care. And they never will unless we come together and KEEP talking.

 

Why won’t these issues get solved on benzobuddies?! Why can’t we be the spark? I’ve personally met some brilliant people here and we have something on our side - we CARE about these issues. I’ve met scientists, lawyers, engineers, etc etc all in this circle. I’ve met doctors through people here. I’ve met tons of educated people who are reading and studying and researching and talking to doctors and professionals around the world. Coming up with logical, science-based theories and testing them. Is this the perfect method? No. WE KNOW. But it’s all we’ve got. These threads are for science theories and ideas, we know we’re not talking about facts with 20 years of clinical data and human trials. If we had that we wouldn’t be in this damn position in the first place.... EVERYTHING starts somewhere. No disease has a cure until someone finds it.

 

Ugh. Was hoping the conversation would continue unscathed and I could ignore it, but alas, it continues. I just hate when this happens... Lolol. Forgive me. To return back to the cutting edge discussion and revert away from the pervading mantra that everyone who’s visited this site since its inception knows by heart.......

 

Pacenik!!... have to had your xenon appointment yet? We are nearing the end of the week so just checking in. Did you give it a shot?!

[[Ma...]]

This is too much speculation about GABA and glutamate without any scientific support. There is no evidence that doing anything to glutamate receptors with memantine, Xenon, etc, will help with benzo withdrawal. There is no evidence for flumanezil either. By evidence I mean clinical trials.  Tapering is currently the only approach.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There's a big powerful lobbying group that would want to suppress such research. That counts for something.

 

I find your insistence on stifling discussion bizarre. Also, you just talk straight past people rather than addressing what was actually said/meant. It's annoying.

 

diaz-E-BAM

 

I do enjoy your posts, I think they are very helpful. I went back and looked at some of them and found this:

 

"Beware of anything that promises to be an instant remedy to all of your troubles. There's really no such thing. Genuine improvement is realised through incremental change which happens over time."

 

I wholeheartedly agree. This counts for something.

[[Be...]]

There are alot of intelligent people on this forum who have the ability to check for all the scientific research done on our benzo damage, which is why these threads are important.  I now know to keep an eye out for Xenon therapy, etc.

[[Fo...]]

This is too much speculation about GABA and glutamate without any scientific support. There is no evidence that doing anything to glutamate receptors with memantine, Xenon, etc, will help with benzo withdrawal. There is no evidence for flumanezil either. By evidence I mean clinical trials.  Tapering is currently the only approach.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There's a big powerful lobbying group that would want to suppress such research. That counts for something.

 

I find your insistence on stifling discussion bizarre. Also, you just talk straight past people rather than addressing what was actually said/meant. It's annoying.

 

diaz-E-BAM

 

I do enjoy your posts, I think they are very helpful. I went back and looked at some of them and found this:

 

"Beware of anything that promises to be an instant remedy to all of your troubles. There's really no such thing. Genuine improvement is realised through incremental change which happens over time."

 

I wholeheartedly agree. This counts for something.

 

Your 666th post.  How appropriate

 

You know in Tasmania old people with Parkinson’s have been wearing buckets on their head lined with Near infrared LED lights to treat their Parkinson’s.  I’m sure if you were on a Parkinson’s forum you would have been calling them all foolish as well.  Yet the research on photobiomodulation continues to pile up for treating everything from Parkinson’s to Alzheimer’s to TBI’s. I for one have a pbm helmet I use on myself and my father who has Parkinson’s. 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-24/clinical-trials-for-wearing-led-helmets-treatment-parkinsons/10836906

 

And who would of thought ecstasy (mdma) would be nearing fda approval with an 80% cure rate for PTSD and trauma based mental health disorders.  Or that the iboga plant would be able to eliminate opiate withdrawals and essentially reset the brain to a preaddictive state.  Or that ketamine could reverse suicidal depression in certain patients in a matter of hours. 

 

Jordan Peterson flew halfway around the world twice trying to survive his Akathisia and resulting benzo damage. And apparently he found something that Helped.  Maybe it will pan out, maybe it won’t.  But I for one am glad there are curious and intelligent people out there looking for answers to extremely difficult problems. 

 

Feel free to wait for all the trials, studies and fda approval.  The same process that gave us benzos, opiates, gabapentinoids, psych meds, and countless other drugs which have destroyed millions of lives. 

[[Ha...]]

Maugham1, pretty much every post I've seen of yours on various threads is the same, constantly putting people and their ideas down quoting the lack of scientific data. It's not helpful, and in some cases I find it unnecessarily hurtful for people in a vulnerable state.

 

Anyway I find the topic very interesting, theoretical as it is.

 

Ramcon1, I think I will try a little parmesan to test a sensitivity and would be interested in hearing about serotonins affect on glutamate, I shall do some research on it in the meantime.

 

Thanks

[Guest [pa...]]

Pacenik!!... have to had your xenon appointment yet? We are nearing the end of the week so just checking in. Did you give it a shot?!

Unfortunately no!  :'(

Anesthesiologist that does the procedure isn't here until the week after next. I was very dissapointed when I found out. Reinstatement window is slowly going away.

[[De...]]

Thanks for the information re: GABA vs Glutamate damage dominance.  Very interesting!  Hadn't read about that distinction before.  I don't seem to have any food sensitivities that I can discern.

 

I will continue to read/monitor this thread as I for one love reading about cutting edge scientific ideas on such complex problems.  Healthy scientific debate is crucial, but the drama is quite unecessary 

[[...]]

Unfortunately no!  :'(

Anesthesiologist that does the procedure isn't here until the week after next. I was very dissapointed when I found out. Reinstatement window is slowly going away.

 

Oh no! I’m sorry to hear that.

How do you plan to move forward from here?

Will you wait until the week after next? Or try another clinic?

 

Thanks for the update either way, man. I can’t wait until everything finally lines up. Hang in there in the meantime!!

[[Ma...]]

Maugham1, pretty much every post I've seen of yours on various threads is the same, constantly putting people and their ideas down quoting the lack of scientific data. It's not helpful, and in some cases I find it unnecessarily hurtful for people in a vulnerable state.

 

Anyway I find the topic very interesting, theoretical as it is.

 

Ramcon1, I think I will try a little parmesan to test a sensitivity and would be interested in hearing about serotonins affect on glutamate, I shall do some research on it in the meantime.

 

Thanks

 

I actually almost never put people down. I do oppose non-scientific ideas. That is called free speech.

[[Ma...]]

This is too much speculation about GABA and glutamate without any scientific support. There is no evidence that doing anything to glutamate receptors with memantine, Xenon, etc, will help with benzo withdrawal. There is no evidence for flumanezil either. By evidence I mean clinical trials.  Tapering is currently the only approach.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There's a big powerful lobbying group that would want to suppress such research. That counts for something.

 

I find your insistence on stifling discussion bizarre. Also, you just talk straight past people rather than addressing what was actually said/meant. It's annoying.

 

diaz-E-BAM

 

I do enjoy your posts, I think they are very helpful. I went back and looked at some of them and found this:

 

"Beware of anything that promises to be an instant remedy to all of your troubles. There's really no such thing. Genuine improvement is realised through incremental change which happens over time."

 

I wholeheartedly agree. This counts for something.

 

Your 666th post.  How appropriate

 

You know in Tasmania old people with Parkinson’s have been wearing buckets on their head lined with Near infrared LED lights to treat their Parkinson’s.  I’m sure if you were on a Parkinson’s forum you would have been calling them all foolish as well.  Yet the research on photobiomodulation continues to pile up for treating everything from Parkinson’s to Alzheimer’s to TBI’s. I for one have a pbm helmet I use on myself and my father who has Parkinson’s. 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-24/clinical-trials-for-wearing-led-helmets-treatment-parkinsons/10836906

 

And who would of thought ecstasy (mdma) would be nearing fda approval with an 80% cure rate for PTSD and trauma based mental health disorders.  Or that the iboga plant would be able to eliminate opiate withdrawals and essentially reset the brain to a preaddictive state.  Or that ketamine could reverse suicidal depression in certain patients in a matter of hours. 

 

Jordan Peterson flew halfway around the world twice trying to survive his Akathisia and resulting benzo damage. And apparently he found something that Helped.  Maybe it will pan out, maybe it won’t.  But I for one am glad there are curious and intelligent people out there looking for answers to extremely difficult problems. 

 

Feel free to wait for all the trials, studies and fda approval.  The same process that gave us benzos, opiates, gabapentinoids, psych meds, and countless other drugs which have destroyed millions of lives.

 

Light therapy for Parkinson's started because a scientist/physician had an idea that it might work based on light therapy in other conditions and that scientist/physician tried it. There were no forums involved.

[[ra...]]

Nov,

 

I wholeheartedly agree.  As I quoted, "If not us who?  If now now when?"

 

Pace,

So you are waiting on XENON.  I am really glad to hear that. I understand that there has been the odd off person who got help from flumazenil, but I am not a fan.  I just never could get my mind around the "why" it should work.  That said, many of medicines best discoveries were accidents, so I am not putting down anyone who wants to give flumazenil a go.

 

But Xenon.  Between the two papers (still mostly noise to me right now, but I keep re-reading them because I want to understand soooooooooo badly) I think there is both the "how it should work" from the paper on receptors, and the clinical evidence from the paper on panic.  I am not an optimist by nature, but to me, that is worth a shot.  Surely even teh most skeptical would think with those two papers as background, and then minimal risk involved, xenon is worth a shot.

 

That brings me back to the first point.  I said I do not believe there is a conspiracy against further research, but I fully believe it does not happen because there is no financial motivation.  We are not a big problem, and therefore not a big source of potential revenue.  Yet.  There may come the day when the millions still on benzos have to pay the piper.  If so, you watch how much research happens then.  But maybe it won't.  Maybe all of those people will last until they are 70-something, so their suffering and deaths will go unnoticed.  So who is going to find the cure then if not us?  Who on earth is more motivated to look at and try any and everything if not us?

 

Sky,

 

The is the whole HPA axis stuff where glutamate and cortisol, (and several other hormones besides cortisol) feed back to each other.  I found precious few things in recovery that have actually helped with symptomatic relief without doing further damage.  I LOVE Phosphatidylserine.  It blocks cortisol release naturally.  I have posted about this before.  We need to select a brand without MCT oil which is a stimulant, and made from sunflower oil, not soy.  But I take 300 mg at bedtime, and I do not wake to cortisol.  I like the Bioclinic brand because it is easily available from Amazon and other sources, and it meets the no MCT oil no soy criteria.

 

Ok.  Back to resting.  Hope you all have good days.

 

Pacenik, please keep us posted on what you get and when.  Good luck!

 

ramcon1