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Someone found something, Jordan Peterson's family


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Hey buddies,

 

I am still having a rough go of it, but I am a few teaspoons better yesterday and today than the past few weeks.  Still no where near my "old self," but hanging in there.

 

I wish I were my old self because if I were, I would be trying very hard to contact Jordan Peterson.  Watch his interview.  His story is similar to many of ours.  Worse in some ways.  But toward the middle of the interview, he states that he received a treatment from an anesthesiologist in Belgrade Serbia that took away most of his issues.  The interview took place 2 weeks after the treatment, and the family promises that if it turns out to have long term benefits, they will tell everyone what it is.  Here is the interview:

 

 

As I said, if I were more "myself," I would pursue contact so I could speak with them about the treatment and see how it lines up or doesn't with everything I learned, but I am just not up to it.  I will keep a watchful eye and open ears, and if anyone learns anything about this please post.

 

It is interesting to watch someone speak in disbelief about what has happened to most of us; that no one knows about the damage benzos cause, and no one knows how to treat it.  I am dying to know what the doc in Belgrade did.  Hopefully soon.

 

Still trying to be your neuroscientist,

 

Ramcon1

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I'm not sure that many people here ever want to withdraw. My own aunt (who is polydrugged on five differend psychiatric drugs) told me "Why are you withdrawing? What's wrong with staying on it for life?" so be as it may, I'm planning on trying the treatments myself.
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Many people, like Jordan Peterson and myself, have no choice but to withdraw because we only get sicker while on the meds.  So I ask the question again, is anyone in Serbia claiming he can help people withdraw from benzos with flumazenil and xenon? The reason I ask is I am wondering if xenon and flumazenil is "the treatment" Jordan Peterson got, or is it something else?
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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20048760/

 

'Thus, our data indicate that in AMPARs channel blockade by Xe is related to desensitization...'

 

Looks like Xenon may have a 'desensitizing' affect on AMPA receptors.

I'd never heard of it prior to it being mentioned here. Maybe it's of interest.

 

I can shoot Mikhaila an email from her website. Not sure I'll get a response, but it's worth a shot, eh?

 

 

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Nov,

 

Good catch.  I am definitely 5 steps behind my old self.  I thought "Xenon" was the name of some NMDA antagonist drug.  It never dawned on me they meant the noble gas xenon, and that it could actually inhibit glutamate transmission and reception, not antagonize it the receptor. (Glutamate receptor antagonists don't help us.)

 

Sadly, that scares me more than encourages me because at first glance it is not clear if the effect if long lasting, or just masks the pain.  I will try to read the whole article (available in the free article link at the upper right hand corner), and encourage others to read it also.  I may email the author if it is not clear.

 

ramcon1

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I may have figured out what clinic Jordan went to.

 

https://drvorobjev.com/en/

 

It's in Belgrade, Serbia, as mentioned in the podcast.

It's ran by an anesthesiologist, as also mentioned.

 

And it's advertised as an international clinic that offers detoxes for benzos and a variety of other substances.

 

I reached out to inquire about their protocol.

 

 

Edit: They do mentioned Xenon gas on their site.

As well as 'Neurometabolic Therapy'.

 

https://drvorobjev.com/en/xenon-gas/

https://drvorobjev.com/en/neurometabolic-therapy-dr-vorobjev/

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I emailed Mikhaila Peterson and will let everyone know if I get a response.

 

I also emailed that Belgrade detox center I mentioned, still unsure if that's where Jordan went, but it meets a lot of the criteria?

 

I talked to them and all they would tell me is that, for benzo patients, they would do their detox therapy(?), 'psychostabilizers', and would recommend doing treatment with 'Ibogaine' as well...

 

https://heroindetoxeurope.com/benzodiazepines-addiction-program/

 

No mention of Xenon specifically on their benzo detox page, or what medications or 'psychostabilizers' are used.

I tried to pry a little bit, but they wouldn't give me any further details and said they'd have to do further diagnostics to determine exactly.

 

But a quick search of Ibogaine is enough to scare me away I think. It's a psychoactive substance and apparently creates a very intense experience. It is used by various places to treat addictions, and appears to be an NMDA antagonist(?), but 'pyschoactive' or psychedelic is literally the last thing I would want to try with my fragile brain.

 

Unless Jordan Peterson comes out and says it was the greatest thing that happened to him and solely responsible for his 180 healing, then that's one thing I am not going to attempt.  :laugh:

 

Looks like there are various clinics in Europe that offer treatment with Xenon gas though. Not sure if that was actually part of Jordan's protocol, hopefully we'll find out, but it looks interesting.

 

One of the stem cell clinics I was looking at, before I decided on the Mexico one, actually offers it and can even pair it with stem cells.

 

https://www.startstemcells.com/xenon-gas-inhalation-therapy.html

 

 

 

 

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I contacted the clinic and told them that I was in protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal and was looking for treatment. They indicated that they would use ibogaine. Maybe that’s what Dr. Peterson is getting.
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Hey all ya'll,

 

To add insult in injury, I now have a &I^U&*^! cold as well as the 5 steps I had lost.  Before I had lost 5 steps, it usually took me 2 weeks to get thru a cold.  For now, I have just got to buckle up and ride it out.

 

But ok.  Xenon and Ibogaine.  They have moved to the top of my list to look at more closely.  For now, my "gut" agrees with Nov. Xenon may hold promise and Ibogaine scares me, is an NMDA antagonist which in and of itself would make me NOT try it, and while I will look at it when I can, unless Jordan Peterson said, "I took Ibogaine and it is responsible for my turn around," I would not do it.

 

I wonder if "neurometabolic therapy," is NAD+ and the vitamins and aminos that often accompany it?  That is a "neurometabolic" treatment.

 

I will mostly be passively watching for at least the next 2 weeks.  Ugh.

 

Ramcon1

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4855665/

 

More info on Xenon's ability as a 'neurorestorative' therapy. This study used it to correct chronic, low-level excitation of NMDA receptors. And also pointed out its trophic healing abilities.

 

It makes note of it 'potentially' having a similar effect to other NMDA receptor antagonists, but we've seen in other articles that while it interacts with the same receptors, it's action does appear to have some distinct differences. 

 

'Excitotoxic stress mediated through NMDA receptors is most generally associated to acute central nervous system insults such as ischemia and traumatic brain injury, but chronic, low-level overexcitation of these receptors is also a possible contributor to neuronal death in a number of chronic neurodegenerative conditions...'

 

'In our work published in Cell Death Discovery, we explored for the first time the neuroprotective potential of xenon in experimental settings that mimic sustained, low-level excitotoxic stress as it may occur in the AD pathology...'

 

'In summary, present data demonstrate that the noble gas xenon has the ability to provide protection and to exert trophic or restorative effects for AD vulnerable neurons...'

 

If the theory that we've been building up for a while around here about chronically over-excited glutamate receptors does indeed have some truth, this study would indicate that Xenon might actually have some potential for us.

 

pacenik mentioned that the treatment there was Xenon and Flumazenil. Maybe Flumazenil resets any issues in the GABA system and Xenon resets any issues in the glutamate system. Could be a nice one-two punch, eh?

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Still sick (damn cold.)  Still following.  I do not have an anxious bone in my body after cutting to 7.5 mg V, but nor can I focus my mind and read with the damn cogfog from this damn cold.  I will read all the articles, with particular attention to Xenon.

 

Thank you all for picking this up and running with it.

 

ramcon1

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I emailed Mikhaila Peterson and will let everyone know if I get a response.

 

I also emailed that Belgrade detox center I mentioned, still unsure if that's where Jordan went, but it meets a lot of the criteria?

 

I talked to them and all they would tell me is that, for benzo patients, they would do their detox therapy(?), 'psychostabilizers', and would recommend doing treatment with 'Ibogaine' as well...

 

https://heroindetoxeurope.com/benzodiazepines-addiction-program/

 

No mention of Xenon specifically on their benzo detox page, or what medications or 'psychostabilizers' are used.

I tried to pry a little bit, but they wouldn't give me any further details and said they'd have to do further diagnostics to determine exactly.

 

But a quick search of Ibogaine is enough to scare me away I think. It's a psychoactive substance and apparently creates a very intense experience. It is used by various places to treat addictions, and appears to be an NMDA antagonist(?), but 'pyschoactive' or psychedelic is literally the last thing I would want to try with my fragile brain.

 

Unless Jordan Peterson comes out and says it was the greatest thing that happened to him and solely responsible for his 180 healing, then that's one thing I am not going to attempt.  :laugh:

 

Looks like there are various clinics in Europe that offer treatment with Xenon gas though. Not sure if that was actually part of Jordan's protocol, hopefully we'll find out, but it looks interesting.

 

One of the stem cell clinics I was looking at, before I decided on the Mexico one, actually offers it and can even pair it with stem cells.

 

https://www.startstemcells.com/xenon-gas-inhalation-therapy.html

 

Thanks for the information, I live about 2 hours away from the Swiss clinic you provided the link for with regards xenon gas. Have emailed them, willing to give it a shot I think

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Thanks for the information, I live about 2 hours away from the Swiss clinic you provided the link for with regards xenon gas. Have emailed them, willing to give it a shot I think

 

Happy to help. This is actually super interesting and exciting to me!

I would definitely be giving it a shot ASAP if there was a clinic that offered it near me. I think, based on everything I can find, it would be a pretty safe thing to give a go! The side effect profile appears to be pretty much non-existent, assuming you go to a good clinic. And as far as I can tell, the mechanism of action should not be something that revs us up or sets us back. Attenuating hyper-excited NMDA receptors seems to be exactly what we need!.....

 

I'm very excited to hear about your experience if you do decide to go!! I just got back from Mexico for stem cells so I'm going to give those a few months (and give my wallet a break for at least a few months). But after that, I'm already eyeballing flights to Europe for this one. It would be a long, expensive journey, but I'm willing to take such adventures when I feel things have real promise and this, at least at the moment, is giving me some good vibes.  8) Hearing about your experience would be infinitely helpful in persuading me to pull that trigger! :) You must keep us posted!!

 

By the way, I've talked with Swiss Medica on various occasions when I was researching stem cell clinics. They've got a good reputation and I think you'd be in good hands there.

 

I'm personally looking at a Xenon exclusive clinic in Prague. I like what I'm reading about them and on their page.

https://www.xenonclinic.com/en/

 

One thing to make note of, Having a mare, or anyone else thinking of pursuing this. It looks like we will definitely need multiple treatments. Based on what I read, I'm thinking we are looking at at least 10 days, with one or two 30 minute + sessions daily. I am basing that off what I've read on the Prague Clinic's page. They've posted data they collected from patients suffering from chronic pain... https://www.xenonclinic.com/en/chronic-pain/

 

'In patients with pain duration more than 30 days, pain reduction to 0-10 points was achieved after an average of 8 procedures; this is most likely due to chronicity of pain syndrome on the background of the formed pathogenic mechanism of pain, and the development of painful behavior of patients.'

 

'Most likely, xenon, due to its effect on all the components of the mechanism of pain syndrome, "breaks" the vicious pathological circle through blocking the pathological impulses...In addition to the direct impact on conduction and perception of pain, xenon normalizes the psycho-emotional state of patients, reducing the emotional component of pain...'

 

'In all patients with occipital nerve neuralgia painful paroxysms were completely abolished after 3-7 procedures with complete termination of drug therapy.' - that's exciting, as I suffer from occipital neuralgia.  ;D

 

Now, this is chronic pain, not chronic benzo issues, I know. But it gives us an idea of how many treatments are needed to address chronic issues and 'break the vicious pathological circle', as they say. They mentioned that for the first couple treatments, the results last 3-5 hours, then fade away. So we're going to have to hit it hard for several days - I will personally opt for 2 treatments per day (which they say is what tougher issues can do) - to really hope to get a permanent effect and actually have lasting desensitization and correct the chronic low-level excitation of our NMDA receptors, as mentioned in the aforementioned publications.

 

Even an intensive regimen such as 2 times a day for 10 days wouldn't be that bank-breaking, all things considered. I believe it'd be around a couple grand, USD. So, not cheap but attainable.

 

Anyway, this is certainly intriguing... Let's keep the Xenon train rolling!

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Hi Nov,

 

Of course I'll keep you informed. One of the worst things about this is that you simply can't take or do anything that helps, and I've had enough of suffering, so am willing to be the Guinea pig here.

 

I live on the Swiss border, which is about 6hours away from Prague too so have also emailed them. I can pretty much Guarantee it will be MUCH cheaper, as Switzerland is expensive. I do have Swiss health insurance, but I doubt it will cover this but I will find out before making any decision.

 

Hoping to have some feedback from both clinics soon and will keep everyone informed

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So it appears that either the Czech or Swiss clinic (I'm assuming Czech) are connected to the Serbian clinic mentioned earlier by Nov, as I have just been contacted by them.

 

Below is WhatsApp chat:

 

"The treatment for your probleme in our hospital would take 10 or 14 days at minimum"

 

"What would it involve? I haven't had a Benzo in 12 weeks after a hospital visit. But I still have withdrawal symptoms. I was curious about Xenon treatment"

 

"Since you havn't benn taking benzodiazepines for 12 weeks, you don't need a detox treatment. The treatment convenient for you is a psicostabilisation program.

There is a basic psicostabilisation program  that lasts 10 days and there is also psycostabilisation program with ibogain procedure that last 15 days.

Treatments with xenon gas is a part of our regeneration program and can always be added to a program"

 

"Ok, I'm a bit concerned with Ibogain as I don't want to make things worse, and am very sensitive to medication and supplements. Would it be possible to tell me a little more about things that I might have a bad reaction to. Also how much would the 10 day treatment cost?"

 

"I understand. Like I said, every treatment is individually raccomanded after diagnostical part.

The price for 10 days treatment is 6.000 eur.

The xenon gas treatment can be added, the price for 5 treatment is 1000 eur"

 

Personally I'm not comfortable with this, and it's a lot of money to part with, especially with very little information on what you are actually receiving.

 

I'm still interested in the Xenon treatment, and will continue to try and get some more information.

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

 

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I think it's Swiss clinic that answered you. Looking the web-site of Czech clinic it would appear that they do nothing but xenon. They also appear to be cheaper.
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I think it's Swiss clinic that answered you. Looking the web-site of Czech clinic it would appear that they do nothing but xenon. They also appear to be cheaper.

 

Yes, think you're right. They have a clinic in Serbia listed on their website

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Ok so just to be clear, Xenon will potentially fix the glutamate side of the equation

 

And we have one buddy ‘having a mare’ trialing it next week.

 

Well I’m beyond excited

 

Good luck ‘having a mare’

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So Swiss Medica is seemingly partnered up with the Serbian Detox center? Strange...

 

That response you posted was just like the one I got from Serbia. It's very strange that they do not disclose what the actual treatment consists of. I don't like that at all. I have a phone consult with the Serbia Doctor tomorrow. Hopefully he will give me more information, just because I am interested now... And yeah, it better be something super good with a price tag like that?!

 

I think the Prague clinic is the best bet for Xenon! I think you made a good choice, Having a mare.

 

I am so infinitely excited to hear about your results and I absolutely wish you the best!

I feel your pain on the trepidation. In the past few months I've tried NAD+, stem cells, and had a surgery with multiple medications/anesthetics. Every time I've escape without a major setback, I've shed a tear in relief. Anything is possible, but I think the data and mathematics are in you favor for a positive outcome. I would personally take a chance with this one too, if it were closer to me.

 

AND - we are all incredibly grateful for your bravery, friend!! Truly. As I've come to find myself, this is the only way to really learn if we can be helped. To take some calculated chances. We are indebted to you - win, lose, or draw.  :)

 

Good luck.

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