Pharmacy Valium all hell broke loose

[[Li...]]

Ok.

Thanks again benzo-off and Bella!!

 

I’m feeling less anxious about this now!! Lg

[[Li...]]

I’m sorry. I still don’t understand the micro taper using vodka. Do I need to add 99 ml of water? Can I just add 1 ml? Im usually not this stupid, but I have sx’s Through the roof. Bad bad brain fog.

 

The vials I ordered ate only 15 ml.

 

Would propylene glycol be a better idea?

 

Would it be the exact same process as the vodka?

 

Could I get detailed instruction on how to do this again, please? How to make it? How to extract it for use?

 

My symptoms are very bad, yet I haven’t tapered in over 60 days, with the exception of a failed taper with the pharmacy liquid. Should I continue to hold?  I have nausea, migraine, anxiety, benzo belly, etc. I really haven’t had many partial windows in 4 yrs. I know I can’t stay here forever. I hate this Valium. I think it’s part of why I’m symptomatic anyway.

 

Really scared and don’t know how to proceed. I just CAN NOT wrap my head around it.

 

Thank you

Lg

 

 

 

 

 

[[bu...]]

I’m sorry. I still don’t understand the micro taper using vodka. Do I need to add 99 ml of water? Can I just add 1 ml? Im usually not this stupid, but I have sx’s Through the roof. Bad bad brain fog.

 

The vials I ordered ate only 15 ml.

 

Would propylene glycol be a better idea?

 

Would it be the exact same process as the vodka?

 

Could I get detailed instruction on how to do this again, please? How to make it? How to extract it for use?

 

My symptoms are very bad, yet I haven’t tapered in over 60 days, with the exception of a failed taper with the pharmacy liquid. Should I continue to hold?  I have nausea, migraine, anxiety, benzo belly, etc. I really haven’t had many partial windows in 4 yrs. I know I can’t stay here forever. I hate this Valium. I think it’s part of why I’m symptomatic anyway.

 

Really scared and don’t know how to proceed. I just CAN NOT wrap my head around it.

 

Thank you

Lg

 

If you combine 1mg benzo + 2ml vodka (or PG) + 8ml water, then you have a .1mg =1ml solution.

 

Those are ratios.  Use those ratios to make multi-day batches.  Ex:  5mg + 10ml + 80ml,  8mg + 16ml + 64ml,  10mg + 20ml  + 80ml, etc...

 

Whether you use vodka or PG, the procedure is exactly the same.  Some folks have an aversion to alcohol (even though the amounts are actually miniscule) and choose PG.  But for most folks, in most areas, vodka is more readily available and convenient.  Either will will work equally well. 

 

The procedure to prepare:  1) Put the required amount of solvent in a glass container (reclaimed jelly, pickle/olive, salad dressing, etc jar) 2) drop in the benzo tablets, and then 3) dilute with water.  Store at room temp with the lid on.  That's really all there is to it...just combine 3 ingredients in the 1:2:8 ratio.

 

To extract you dose, you will need a 1ml and 10ml syringe.  If you can read a ruler, you can read a syringe.  Just read the scale on the syringe barrel and pull the plunger to the amount you need.  Your dose in milliters (liquid) will always be 10X the amount on milligrams (tablet).  Ex:  a 10mg dose is 100ml, a 5mg dose is 50ml, a 4.3mg dose is 43ml, a 3.55mg dose is 35.5ml, etc.

 

If you're unfamiliar with the syringes, get a couple and become familiar.  Start by adding a few drops of food coloring to water to improve readability.  Most pharmacies will give you syringes for free, or they are readily available (and inexpensive) from Amazon.

 

This is NOT complicated!! 

[[Li...]]

Thank you Builder!

 

I know I’m making it more complicated than it is.

 

Do you think I should try to stabilize a bit more or go forward?

Anxiety, nausea, migraine, eye pain, ear pressure, tinnitus, body pain,

Internal pain, benzo belly, insomnia, wobbly legs, dp/dr, terror

Etc etc

Thanks again!!!!

[[bu...]]

Thank you Builder!

 

I know I’m making it more complicated than it is.

 

Do you think I should try to stabilize a bit more or go forward?

Anxiety, nausea, migraine, eye pain, ear pressure, tinnitus, body pain,

Internal pain, benzo belly, insomnia, wobbly legs, dp/dr, terror

Etc etc

Thanks again!!!!

 

IMO, If you have held for 60 days with no improvement, then your sxs are NOT withdrawal. 

Many folks in withdrawal have a tendency to blame all of their sxs on withdrawal.  There can be many other factors to consider.

 

You could updose back to a dose where you were OK, or see your doc for an updated diagnosis.

 

Amended

[[Li...]]

Thanks Builder

I think I may still be in protracted wd from large cut in lexapro, from 20 mo ago.

I have had every test in the book as far as my health. I’ve had 2 surgeries during this time. Gallbladder out a few months ago. Spoke to anesthesiologists prior to surgery. Was told I’d get only propofol, but they also added versed. I had dry heaves for 2 days. Ended up in ER where they gave me 4 IV drugs including compazine. I’ve also had 5 ab’s during my taper, more than I’ve had in my life. I think they’ve all taken a toll on me. I’ve also come off 3 benzos and 8 mg of Valium since the end of October.

 

Now what do I do? TY lg

 

[[Be...]]

Thank you Builder!

 

I know I’m making it more complicated than it is.

 

Do you think I should try to stabilize a bit more or go forward?

Anxiety, nausea, migraine, eye pain, ear pressure, tinnitus, body pain,

Internal pain, benzo belly, insomnia, wobbly legs, dp/dr, terror

Etc etc

Thanks again!!!!

 

If you have held for 60 days with no improvement, then your sxs are NOT withdrawal. 

 

You could updose back to a dose where you were OK, or see your doc for an updated diagnosis.

 

Hey Builder-

 

Please share the source of the scientific data to back up this claim 

[[Be...]]

I’m sorry. I still don’t understand the micro taper using vodka. Do I need to add 99 ml of water? Can I just add 1 ml? Im usually not this stupid, but I have sx’s Through the roof. Bad bad brain fog.

The vials I ordered ate only 15 ml.

 

Would propylene glycol be a better idea?

 

Would it be the exact same process as the vodka?

 

Could I get detailed instruction on how to do this again, please? How to make it? How to extract it for use?

 

My symptoms are very bad, yet I haven’t tapered in over 60 days, with the exception of a failed taper with the pharmacy liquid. Should I continue to hold?  I have nausea, migraine, anxiety, benzo belly, etc. I really haven’t had many partial windows in 4 yrs. I know I can’t stay here forever. I hate this Valium. I think it’s part of why I’m symptomatic anyway.

 

Really scared and don’t know how to proceed. I just CAN NOT wrap my head around it.

 

Thank you

Lg

 

What are your dose(s) again and what size tablets do you have available to taper with?

[[bu...]]

 

 

Hey Builder-

 

Please share the source of the scientific data to back up this claim 

 

See my edits.

[[Li...]]

Hey Bella

I have 2 and 5 mg tabs

 

I take 1 mg at 7am

          1 mg at 10:30

          1 mg at 5pm

          8 mg at 9:30 pm

 

I think I have classic wd symptoms. I’m just one of the lucky ones to get all of them.

 

[Guest [be...]]

Hey Bella

I have 2 and 5 mg tabs

 

I take 1 mg at 7am---------> Dose is from a split 2 mg tablet

          1 mg at 10:30-------> Dose is from a split 2 mg tablet

          1 mg at 5pm --------> Dose is from a split 2 mg tablet

          8 mg at 9:30 pm----> Dose is from 1 5 mg tablet, 1 2 mg tablet and a split 2 mg tablet

 

I think I have classic wd symptoms. I’m just one of the lucky ones to get all of them.

 

IMO, and I have never advised pill splitting and uneven dosing, I believe a lot of the issues you are having are from this.  See bold above.

 

If I needed to dose correct, which would require an increase in benzo, than that is what I would do to achieve a stabilized baseline before I would begin a proper liquid taper and a slow daily reduction rate.

 

You must do what is best for you and I wish you well.

 

 

[[Li...]]

Hey Bella

I have 2 and 5 mg tabs

 

I take 1 mg at 7am---------> Dose is from a split 2 mg tablet

          1 mg at 10:30-------> Dose is from a split 2 mg tablet

          1 mg at 5pm --------> Dose is from a split 2 mg tablet

          8 mg at 9:30 pm----> Dose is from 1 5 mg tablet, 1 2 mg tablet and a split 2 mg tablet

 

I think I have classic wd symptoms. I’m just one of the lucky ones to get all of them.

 

IMO, and I have never advised pill splitting and uneven dosing, I believe a lot of the issues you are having are from this.  See bold above.

 

If I needed to dose correct, which would require an increase in benzo, than that is what I would do to achieve a stabilized baseline before I would begin a proper liquid taper and a slow daily reduction rate.

 

You must do what is best for you and I wish you well.

 

Thank you B

I didn’t think it would make a difference because of the long half life.

But I still don’t know much about this whole process, even after being in the thick of it for so long.

Like I said, I’ve made so many mistakes at every turn.

So then you think I should take all of my cut pills with the liquid taper, even if I’m not reducing yet?

I’m stopping by the pharmacy today for propylene glycol. The vodka makes me nervous.

I don’t know about updosing. I’m so stubborn and hate to go backwards. You don’t think I’ll stabilize w/o going up a bit?

The only time I had the slightest stability was when I finished my crossover. I was at 19 mg then. I should have tapered slower but was following a schedule set up for me that , I’m sure , most people could handle.

 

What amt would you suggest? How long of a hold then? Don’t think I’ll feel near normal due to protracted ad wd, and the fact this Valium sucks.

 

Thank you B!!  Lg

[[Be...]]

Hey Bella

I have 2 and 5 mg tabs

 

I take 1 mg at 7am

          1 mg at 10:30

          1 mg at 5pm

          8 mg at 9:30 pm

I think I have classic wd symptoms. I’m just one of the lucky ones to get all of them.

 

Hey there!

 

I agree. Some of us are super sensitive. I do believe that multiple withdrawals, cold turkey/rapid tapers and possibly genetics factor a great deal into why some folks get little to no relief while holding while others seem to experience minimal symptoms. IMO, It has NOTHING to do with the taper for those of us who have done everything right but continue to have unbearable symptoms. It is unfortunate that some folks cannot comprehend and accept this fact. They tend to continuously blame the individual as somehow being inept. This is not right. We are all different... it is not black and white, cookie cutter, one way works for all. Just my opinion... 

 

Here is an option for you to consider. This option tapers at the rate of 5% a month. This may be a good place for you to start once you feel  ready. This rate can always be easily adjusted at any point.

 

1ml=1mg (using ethanol as a solvent)

 

1)Put 2 - 5mgV tablets in 15ml vial

2) Add 1ml of ethanol wait 10 minute or until tablets are broken down.

3) Add 9ml of distilled water. Shake well prior to dosing

4) Remove and take dose following the attached schedule

(This batch will last approx. 10 days)

 

    click image

 

Tip:

If you decide to cut the 2mg tablets in half, use a quality cutter and put the cut portion in a daily pill box and take it the next dose. Due to the long half life, this should compensate for any minut variance in the halves. 

 

With this taper plan, the amount of alcohol used is minimal. 1ml every 10 days. (1ml is equal to 20 drops)

 

*edit typo 20 drops

[[Li...]]

Bella,

You are awesome!!

 

I do use a quality pill splitter. And I use all halves of the pills in one day.

 

This looks like a great taper schedule and easy for me to comprehend.

Thank you!! You’ve gone above and beyond for me.

 

I picked up some propylene glycol from my pharmacy today.

They had to do a little research and said it would work fine.

But they also said the amt of alcohol is so little, that it wouldn’t have any effect on me.

But he’s also the same one that said that 10 mg of Zoloft was a cat sized dose and I shouldn’t have gotten sick from it. He wanted to know where I was getting my info about vodka or PG taper. I told him BB. I got a slight eye roll.  I got my GP on board with you guys. He researched bb and read the Ashton manual. Now, if we can get the pdocs on board, there would be a lot less pain in this world.

 

Thank you !!!!

 

[[Li...]]

Thank you 3 B’s

Bella, Builder, Benzo-off

 

Does the morning cortisol rush ever let up while tapering?

It’s been there for the last few yrs. Depending on how bad it is, kinda know how my day is going to be. I’ve done Himalayan salt drinks, cold showers, mild exercise. but most mornings I tremble til my mid morning, 2nd dose, of Valium. It’s terror and tears. So hard to start the day that way. I fear going to bed at night.

 

And I’m terrified to start tapering again. But I’m more afraid of tolerance wd again.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I need to be upright each day as I watch my 2 grandkids. It’s been really hard and really sad as I don’t feel the joy I used to being with them. I fake it as best I can so my misery doesn’t effect them.

I don’t have the luxury of just being quiet and resting most days. But it is a distraction for me, yet hard to take care of little ones feeling like the worst hangover while standing in a rocking boat.

[[Be...]]

Thank you 3 B’s

Bella, Builder, Benzo-off

 

Does the morning cortisol rush ever let up while tapering?

It’s been there for the last few yrs. Depending on how bad it is, kinda know how my day is going to be. I’ve done Himalayan salt drinks, cold showers, mild exercise. but most mornings I tremble til my mid morning, 2nd dose, of Valium. It’s terror and tears. So hard to start the day that way. I fear going to bed at night.

 

And I’m terrified to start tapering again. But I’m more afraid of tolerance wd again.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I need to be upright each day as I watch my 2 grandkids. It’s been really hard and really sad as I don’t feel the joy I used to being with them. I fake it as best I can so my misery doesn’t effect them.

I don’t have the luxury of just being quiet and resting most days. But it is a distraction for me, yet hard to take care of little ones feeling like the worst hangover while standing in a rocking boat.

 

My experience was that as I got lower in dosage symptoms eased up. When you feel better able to begin your taper why not just reduce what ever you can holding as necessary. As long as you are moving in the right direction that is what is important.

 

If you are getting some relief from the benzo then you probably are not in "tolerance withdrawal". In withdrawal, symptoms are likely to be present, it is withdrawal not tolerance. Nothing easy about this process for those who are sensitive. Some folks just need to get off of benzo...

[[Li...]]

Thanks Bella

I’m sure I’m not in tolerance. Been there before. But it happened so quickly with the other benzos, so I’m nervous about it. I think my body just doesn’t agree with these drugs. So, my only option is to start reducing slowly and be able to keep functioning with the symptoms.

 

Good to hear your symptoms reduced as you got lower. I’m holding on to that thought and going forward. Or downward. TY

[[Li...]]

Hey Bella

I’ve tried diluting 10 mg of diazepam in propylene glycol. It did not dissolve quickly. By morning it was a paste. Wasn’t sure if I could add the water at this point and use it. I threw it out.

So I bought some ethanol, in 2 hrs the Valium hadn’t dissolved. So I took my regular 8 mg at bedtime again. Left pills in ethanol overnight. Nothing! Have not dissolved at all!

Not the slightest bit broken down.

 

Now, don’t know how to proceed.

[[bu...]]

Keep in mind that only a tiny percentage of the tablet is actually diazepam.  The diazepam will dissolve, although much of the inactive binders, fillers, colorants, etc will not.

 

If the tablet deconstructs, then the diazepam will dissolve.  Some brands have a protective coating which will slow down the deconstruction.  If  that applies to your tablets, then crush them before adding to the PG.

[[Li...]]

Keep in mind that only a tiny percentage of the tablet is actually diazepam.  The diazepam will dissolve, although much of the inactive binders, fillers, colorants, etc will not.

 

If the tablet deconstructs, then the diazepam will dissolve.  Some brands have a protective coating which will slow down the deconstruction.  If  that applies to your tablets, then crush them before adding to the PG.

 

Oh, ok Builder. Cuz it’s not deconstructed at all, 20 hrs later. Do you think I can save those pills by taking them out of the ethanol  and crushing them at this point?

 

Also, another question. I pulled the vial out of the trash that I had dissolved using the propylene glycol

It sat for more than 36?hrs. I added distilled water to it this morning. Do you think that’s still good? It was still sterile in the airtight jar.

I hate to have to explain to my dr and insurance why so many 5 mg pills are disappearing.

 

Thanks, as usual for responding. This is making me anxious. I just want to get on with the taper. TY

[[bu...]]

Keep in mind that only a tiny percentage of the tablet is actually diazepam.  The diazepam will dissolve, although much of the inactive binders, fillers, colorants, etc will not.

 

If the tablet deconstructs, then the diazepam will dissolve.  Some brands have a protective coating which will slow down the deconstruction.  If  that applies to your tablets, then crush them before adding to the PG.

 

Oh, ok Builder. Cuz it’s not deconstructed at all, 20 hrs later. Do you think I can save those pills by taking them out of the ethanol  and crushing them at this point?

Also, another question. I pulled the vial out of the trash that I had dissolved using the propylene glycol

It sat for more than 36?hrs. I added distilled water to it this morning. Do you think that’s still good? It was still sterile in the airtight jar.

I hate to have to explain to my dr and insurance why so many 5 mg pills are disappearing.

 

Thanks, as usual for responding. This is making me anxious. I just want to get on with the taper. TY

 

Just "muddle" them while in the PG, then dilute.  Others have done that.

 

The only issue is for the active ingredient to be exposed to the solvent.  How you do that, or how that haappens, really isn't important.

[[Li...]]

Ok. Thanks builder.

Sorry for being a pain. So afraid to make another mistake.

 

[[bu...]]

Ok. Thanks builder.

Sorry for being a pain. So afraid to make another mistake.

 

I would much rather answer questions than have you say ..."I tried it but it just didn't work"! 

[[Li...]]

Ok. Thanks builder.

Sorry for being a pain. So afraid to make another mistake.

 

I would much rather answer questions than have you say ..."I tried it but it just didn't work"! 

👍 thanks.

[[Li...]]

Ok guys-

This doesn’t seem to be working for me. I’ve cut 7 days .02 ml of Valium. After 1 wk of feeling 30-40% better than the last 4 yrs, the bottom fell out after the first cut of .02, and has gotten worse everyday. Today completely non-functional. Every symptom in the book.

 

I followed the plan to a T. Shook the solution. Measured carefully.

 

Should I updose to stabilize? Follow the course using dry weigh and cuts?

 

I can’t imagine doing a 5 yr or more taper feeling like this.

I slept little last night with cortisol rush waking me at 3am. It has not let up even after taking 1 mg x3 times today. Head pressure and headache is excruciating. And the rest of the cruel symptoms. I have no appetite for the first time since crossing over to Valium.

 

If microtaper is going to be this bad, should I just make bigger cuts and get this over in a few months like my original Ashton schedule that was set up for me?

 

I know I have to bite the bullet and do it eventually, but I’m leaning towards going back up that teeny amt I took off the last week? 

Have you found that anybody else could not handle the PG taper? I have the same ramped up symptoms as when I used the pharmacy liquid.

 

Not sure how to proceed or if I should at this point.

 

Thank you  Lg