Question - I don’t understand this long hold business?

[[We...]]

Mary  The most amazing thing about all this is how powerful these drugs are and how different everyone's path is.  Was/is hard for this newbie to sort through while so afraid and just wrapping my mind around that the Klon was the problem for dozens of symptoms.  I guess this accidental addict accidentally muddled through to this point - so far so good.  True, we all find our own path and root for each others success.  Hopefully folks are rooting for me too, cuz I sure do need it.

[[Ma...]]

Mary  The most amazing thing about all this is how powerful these drugs are and how different everyone's path is.  Was/is hard for this newbie to sort through while so afraid and just wrapping my mind around that the Klon was the problem for dozens of symptoms.  I guess this accidental addict accidentally muddled through to this point - so far so good.  True, we all find our own path and root for each others success.  Hopefully folks are rooting for me too, cuz I sure do need it.

 

Welchie, you can believe we are all rooting for you and will do anything we can to help. We are all in this miserable journey together  Mary ☮️☮️🙏🙏💜💜

[[mo...]]

Haven't read all of the comments but in my case I initially cut my dose by 1/3 at the advice of a dr. who wasn't knowledgeable and I wasn't either. I then learned I needed to gradually taper and did so 1/8 of a pill at a time for 4 cuts. It was hell. Then I took a year off to stabilize. When I resumed my taper, I had symptoms 2 or 3 days each time  and pretty mild. I did this 6 times in a few months. My theory is that when I cut too quickly I damaged myself and needed time to heal but didn't take that time, hence the bad experience. When I held and got healthy again I was in a good position to taper again. Should I have held an entire year? No probably not but I had a lot going on. Maybe 6 months would have been better maybe not. But I'm glad I took a break. Maybe my dependence was increased over that year so maybe in the long run I'll have worse or protracted symptoms. I'll never know. I try to focus on a healthy lifestyle to ease the healing process.

 

No way of knowing what causes a window or wave the chemistry of the brain is complex. I am guessing outer influence plays a huge part- stress level, alcohol or other substances, rest, supplements or foods that help or hinder. They are definitelg real I've experienced them myself.

[[Ho...]]

Thank you Cantfly. 

 

        I went faster than Ashton suggested when I thought I was strong enough to handle it and found out the hard way that my body could NOT handle it.  I'm not going back ...I'll stay here till I stabilize and white knuckle it.  I agree with Cantfly.  We have to listen to our bodies, and even before I went from 11 to 10, I thought I was able to handle it.  BUT my body said NO WAY!  SURPRISE!  So even listening to your body ......then suddenly it hits you hard is no guarantee it won't hit you hard like it did to me and it's lasted now 6 solid weeks and NO WINDOWS!  NONE!    Starting on the 6th week, I'm noticing my BP is settling down but still spikes here and there but not constant like it was.  It was horrible. 

And I'm getting some sleep whereas before I got no sleep for weeks!  Yea, I thought my body could take it ...........NOT! 

 

    6 weeks and I'm still weak and I still have to watch my bp, still shaking, especially when I wake up.  Naturopath Spit Test for Adrenals showed my Adrenals are shooting out excessive amounts of Cortisol but not all the time.  Mainly morning and night time.  Yet, I keep losing weight because of the high stress it's causing me.  Benzos mess up your adrenals too, either they become overactive or underactive.  Mine is overactive.

 

    So even listening to your body is no guarantee.  Cantfly is right.........going slow is the best way.  I think I'm going to Liquid micro taper 1/2 mg a MONTH.  It will take me 20 months to get off this medicine and hopefully it will be a smooth taper, IF NOT, I'll HOLD again.

[[Ma...]]

Thank you Cantfly. 

 

        I went faster than Ashton suggested when I thought I was strong enough to handle it and found out the hard way that my body could NOT handle it.  I'm not going back ...I'll stay here till I stabilize and white knuckle it.  I agree with Cantfly.  We have to listen to our bodies, and even before I went from 11 to 10, I thought I was able to handle it.  BUT my body said NO WAY!  SURPRISE!  So even listening to your body ......then suddenly it hits you hard is no guarantee it won't hit you hard like it did to me and it's lasted now 6 solid weeks and NO WINDOWS!  NONE!    Starting on the 6th week, I'm noticing my BP is settling down but still spikes here and there but not constant like it was.  It was horrible. 

And I'm getting some sleep whereas before I got no sleep for weeks!  Yea, I thought my body could take it ...........NOT! 

 

    6 weeks and I'm still weak and I still have to watch my bp, still shaking, especially when I wake up.  Naturopath Spit Test for Adrenals showed my Adrenals are shooting out excessive amounts of Cortisol but not all the time.  Mainly morning and night time.  Yet, I keep losing weight because of the high stress it's causing me.  Benzos mess up your adrenals too, either they become overactive or underactive.  Mine is overactive.

 

    So even listening to your body is no guarantee.  Cantfly is right.........going slow is the best way.  I think I'm going to Liquid micro taper 1/2 mg a MONTH.  It will take me 20 months to get off this medicine and hopefully it will be a smooth taper, IF NOT, I'll HOLD again.

 

You have a plan, I just want to say, a lot of people have found Ashton too fast, 5 to 7 is being used a lot now. When you start tapering again, watch those symptoms so you don't have to go through this twice.  Goo luck HfR, luv ya , Mary ☮️💜🎄

[[co...]]

 

You have a plan, I just want to say, a lot of people have found Ashton too fast, 5 to 7 is being used a lot now.

 

When you say 5 to 7 is being used a lot now, exactly what are you referring to?  Not trying to be confrontational, just wondering what the 5 to 7 refers to. 

thanks.

[[Ma...]]

 

You have a plan, I just want to say, a lot of people have found Ashton too fast, 5 to 7 is being used a lot now.

 

When you say 5 to 7 is being used a lot now, exactly what are you referring to?  Not trying to be confrontational, just wondering what the 5 to 7 refers to. 

thanks.

 

People that are struggling are just cutting 5 To 7 % a month.  I know it's slow, but it's keeping a lot of people functional. Mary

[[Ho...]]

Thank you Mary5588,

 

      I want off Valium like YESTERDAY, but now I'm on hold bcuz of that attitude.  I hit the wall hard and fast, BP dangerously high day and night for 3 solid weeks.  It's starting to settle down now but still have some spikes.  So when you want to go fast and it affects you very LIFE, your health.......you are darn RIGHT you WILL HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE but to HOLD!  I HAD no other choice.  So you ppl who don't understand it, you BETTER before this happens to you too and if it does, you might not live through it.  I nearly died from the HBP myself.  And that Continual HBP can destroy your organs, kidneys, blind you....etc.

 

    Does anyone in here want this to happen to you?  I know I don't.

[[co...]]

People that are struggling are just cutting 5 To 7 % a month.  I know it's slow, but it's keeping a lot of people functional. Mary

 

Thanks, Mary.  I agree.  Keeping people functional and minimizing the withdrawal effects is the most important thing--to me, anyway. 

[[Ma...]]

People that are struggling are just cutting 5 To 7 % a month.  I know it's slow, but it's keeping a lot of people functional. Mary

 

Thanks, Mary.  I agree.  Keeping people functional and minimizing the withdrawal effects is the most important thing--to me, anyway.

 

Me too

[[Ca...]]

Thank you Mary5588,

 

      I want off Valium like YESTERDAY, but now I'm on hold bcuz of that attitude.  I hit the wall hard and fast, BP dangerously high day and night for 3 solid weeks.  It's starting to settle down now but still have some spikes.  So when you want to go fast and it affects you very LIFE, your health.......you are darn RIGHT you WILL HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE but to HOLD!  I HAD no other choice.  So you ppl who don't understand it, you BETTER before this happens to you too and if it does, you might not live through it.  I nearly died from the HBP myself.  And that Continual HBP can destroy your organs, kidneys, blind you....etc.

 

    Does anyone in here want this to happen to you?  I know I don't.

I agree, -Im sure some people in the world think we do it as a fashion statment... While it can turn into a life style choice (work, parenting, etc), its usualy pure survival that initiates a committed long hold...

It would be great if everyone knew and understood what options are around, should they run into problems...

 

***

So as to %/time, I feel that for someone starting out, with no idea on how they will respond to reductions, that Ashton is a great place to start.. -Remembering that there are plenty of people that dont have the significant problems that we can see here (support sites)...

 

I think the key is to understand our differences in body and history, and know that while some people could increase their tapering speed from 5-10% every couple of weeks, others will be served well by reducing this down... -As Mary mentions... 

While 3% has been used, I think from memory that below 5% people tend to extend the time with some form of holding... 

 

I sometimes wonder for those particularly sensitive people, that are doing a DLMT, what would happen if they swapped that extra holding time for a further reduced %, -and continued daily (from a stable position)..?? I doubt its that simple, -probably due to the absence of change from holding having its own healing value...

 

All in all, people that manage to sort their way through all the variables, and taylor a taper that suits themselves, tend to do quite well, from what I have seen..

Its the process of working it out thats the hard part...