Are we telling people the wrong thing ?

[[se...]]

Benzos had a significant and life-altering impact on me and it's precisely because of that experience (ADs as well), that I hold views supporting their use in certain circumstances.  I would not be able to tell someone they can't use a benzo only because they're not about to seize or die.  I wouldn't want that for me either.  I think it's better to make the determination on an individual, case-by-case basis weighing risks and benefits.  Function and quality of life matters here big time.

[Guest [sa...]]

In the end, we're all gonna die.

[[No...]]

In the end, we're all gonna die.

 

 

Yes but hopefully later rather than sooner!! 

[Guest [bl...]]

In the end, we're all gonna die.

 

Why can't the doctors save us? Centuries of investment in medical research by mankind and there isn't yet a pill that can save us from death? When man can fly to the moon and back, why can he not cure death? Sometimes I feel that all the medical industry is interested in is selling drugs. Even if they find a cure for death, they would hide it from us - immortality is bad for business.

[Guest [sa...]]

In the end, we're all gonna die.

 

Why can't the doctors save us? Centuries of investment in medical research by mankind and there isn't yet a pill that can save us from death? When man can fly to the moon and back, why can he not cure death? Sometimes I feel that all the medical industry is interested in is selling drugs. Even if they find a cure for death, they would hide it from us - immortality is bad for business.

 

Only god can help us, not any doctor. 

[[ab...]]

I believe labels are total bs.  There is no one way for every person.  There are so many paths to a full life, and each person has to find their own way.  I am grateful for this site in that it allows open debate and has taught me so much!  At the end of the day, however, each of us must determine our own path.  And we are so lucky that we have the choice!

[Guest [Sk...]]

I believe labels are total bs.  There is no one way for every person.

There are so many paths to a full life,

and each person has to find their own way.

 

I am grateful for this site in that it allows open debate

and has taught me so much!

  At the end of the day, however,

each of us must determine our own path.

  And we are so lucky that we have the choice!

 

very wisely said.   

[[ho...]]

Couldn't agree more! 

 

Either way, there will be risks and benefits. It really comes down to our ability to choose our paths. For some, I suppose, there is no choice when they unknowingly succumb to the horrors of prescription drugs gone wrong.

 

But I do believe,  once you are armed with the truth and gain an accurate understanding of prescribed meds, you are accountable at that point. Choose to get better or choose to stay sick.

 

Mind, body &soul

Peace&Love

Hope &Faith

[[...]]

In the end, we're all gonna die.

 

Why can't the doctors save us? Centuries of investment in medical research by mankind and there isn't yet a pill that can save us from death? When man can fly to the moon and back, why can he not cure death? Sometimes I feel that all the medical industry is interested in is selling drugs. Even if they find a cure for death, they would hide it from us - immortality is bad for business.

 

Are you okay?

 

You must be slipping.......no flow chart?

 

I miss them.

 

Just shittin you. Take care.

[Guest [bl...]]

In the end, we're all gonna die.

 

Why can't the doctors save us? Centuries of investment in medical research by mankind and there isn't yet a pill that can save us from death? When man can fly to the moon and back, why can he not cure death? Sometimes I feel that all the medical industry is interested in is selling drugs. Even if they find a cure for death, they would hide it from us - immortality is bad for business.

 

Are you okay?

 

You must be slipping.......no flow chart?

 

I miss them.

 

Just shittin you. Take care.

 

 

learnt a new phrase -- shitting you.

can't use it in my circles though.

[Guest [bl...]]

Oh look PSVT! there has been a revolution!

looks like you were heard! 

 

Here is a quote from Luke Montagu that puts things into perspective for me.......

 

"Psychiatry is a corrupt and dishonest business: it treats so-called illnesses that don't exist with drugs that don't cure and can cause great harm. And once you have been harmed, it then diagnoses further illnes and prescribes yet more drugs".

 

And in my opinion, a truer word has never been spoken!

 

http://i66.tinypic.com/2z8ccxz.png

 

the fact that they used "homeostasis" (your hifalutin word for the day) to complicate simple things has to be the icing on the cake!

[Guest [bl...]]

some syllogisms for you PSVT. You should get used to syllogisms too, for, after flow charts, they are the second most powerful arsenal in internet shitting you.

 

ACT I SCENE I

 

DOC -- PSVT you have heart palpitations

PSVT -- OK, what do I have to do now?

DOC -- take these pills twice a day

PSVT - what do they do?

DOC -- they control your nervous systems in ways that we do not fully understand. But we do know that they modulate the activity of your neurotransmitters -- epinephrine, norepinephrine, gaba. The end result is that your heart rate slows down, muscles relax and you feel less anxious

PSVT -- what's this drug called? antibiotic?

DOC -- ha ha, no. it is a beta blocker.

PSVT. you rock doc! antibiotics and beta blockers cure illnesses. psychiatric drugs create illnesses. i'll take this pill!

 

ACT I SCENE II

 

DOC -- PSVT you have heart palpitations

PSVT -- OK, what do I have to do now?

DOC -- take these pills twice a day

PSVT - what do they do?

DOC -- they control your nervous systems in ways that we do not fully understand. But we do know that they modulate the activity of your neurotransmitters -- epinephrine, norepinephrine, gaba. The end result is that your heart rate slows down, muscles relax and you feel less anxious

PSVT -- what's this drug called? antibiotic?

DOC -- ha ha, no. it is a benzodiazepine.

PSVT. No way!!! Why are you prescribing me psychiatric drugs? Do you know psychiatric drugs create illnesses?

DOC -- huh?

 

[Guest [bl...]]

ACT I SCENE III

 

DOC -- PSVT you have heart palpitations

PSVT -- OK, what do I have to do now?

DOC -- take these pills twice a day

PSVT - what do they do?

DOC -- they control your nervous systems in ways that we do not fully understand. But we do know that they modulate the activity of your neurotransmitters -- epinephrine, norepinephrine, gaba. The end result is that your heart rate slows down, muscles relax and you feel less anxious

PSVT -- what's this drug called? antibiotic?

DOC -- yes

PSVT -- But I thought antibiotics killed harmful bacteria

DOC -- You are right. Antibiotics kill bacteria and if you have an infection, the harmful bacteria get killed in more numbers. But most antibiotics also impact neurotransmitters. Their neurological side effect is not emphasized, not studied and ignored when noticed. I feel this antibiotic might just do the trick.

PSVT -- Hmmm.

[[...]]

 

 

 

learnt a new phrase -- shitting you.

can't use it in my circles though.

 

You need to find new circles because it sounds like the people in your current ones are a little too......square!

[[...]]

Oh look PSVT! there has been a revolution!

looks like you were heard! 

 

 

I've never been very good at riddles you may need to explain this one to a simpleton like myself.

[[...]]

Oh look PSVT! there has been a revolution!

looks like you were heard! 

 

Here is a quote from Luke Montagu that puts things into perspective for me.......

 

"Psychiatry is a corrupt and dishonest business: it treats so-called illnesses that don't exist with drugs that don't cure and can cause great harm. And once you have been harmed, it then diagnoses further illnes and prescribes yet more drugs".

 

And in my opinion, a truer word has never been spoken!

 

 

 

the fact that they used "homeostasis" (your hifalutin word for the day) to complicate simple things has to be the icing on the cake!

 

Hifalutin....What tha....?  Well, like I said in a previous post, at the least it makes you sound smarter (even though it makes you look like a douche)

 

Only someone who was up themselves and with obvious insecurities would use the word hifalutin. *drops mic*

 

How can you devour a dictionary so well yet you cant quite understand a simple success story? Try sticking to the easy words, that may just help you. (and me)

[[...]]

some syllogisms for you PSVT. You should get used to syllogisms too, for, after flow charts, they are the second most powerful arsenal in internet shitting you.

 

ACT I SCENE I

 

DOC -- PSVT you have heart palpitations

PSVT -- OK, what do I have to do now?

DOC -- take these pills twice a day

PSVT - what do they do?

DOC -- they control your nervous systems in ways that we do not fully understand. But we do know that they modulate the activity of your neurotransmitters -- epinephrine, norepinephrine, gaba. The end result is that your heart rate slows down, muscles relax and you feel less anxious

PSVT -- what's this drug called? antibiotic?

DOC -- ha ha, no. it is a beta blocker.

PSVT. you rock doc! antibiotics and beta blockers cure illnesses. psychiatric drugs create illnesses. i'll take this pill!

 

ACT I SCENE II

 

DOC -- PSVT you have heart palpitations

PSVT -- OK, what do I have to do now?

DOC -- take these pills twice a day

PSVT - what do they do?

DOC -- they control your nervous systems in ways that we do not fully understand. But we do know that they modulate the activity of your neurotransmitters -- epinephrine, norepinephrine, gaba. The end result is that your heart rate slows down, muscles relax and you feel less anxious

PSVT -- what's this drug called? antibiotic?

DOC -- ha ha, no. it is a benzodiazepine.

PSVT. No way!!! Why are you prescribing me psychiatric drugs? Do you know psychiatric drugs create illnesses?

DOC -- huh?

 

Sorry bluewaters, I really couldn't be fucked trying to find out what a "syllogisms" were but it sounds like something that also be called the "money shot" in a porn movie but I'm sure its not......can you just get to the fucking point?

 

If we are going to have some debate your going to need to keep the other party at least partly interested and not make them nod off to sleep trying to figure out your point or in your case, lack thereof.

 

Can we please please please go back to your flow charts?

 

 

[[...]]

…...they are the second most powerful arsenal in internet shitting you.

 

 

Wow, this is sad......you sound like a seasoned professional of having to troll, debate, proove your superior "Big word" skills, show your lack of ability at actually understanding the written word, and provoke people on the internet.

 

The fact that you think you know that "they are the second most powerful arsenal...." is sad.

 

You gettin any sex?

 

[[pi...]]

This thread is veering far off course now.

 

There are a couple of points I'd like to address. First of all, everyone agreed to follow rules and policies when joining the forum.  This includes being careful with profanity.  There are people who are sensitive to the use of profanity and while we don't edit out each and every occurrence, mostly due to the fact we have a small team to moderate a large forum,  it is important to post in a manner than is acceptable by all.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=108145.0

 

Please do not post profanity - disguised or otherwise - at this forum. Members will have differing sensitivities to the use of swear words, so it is better to avoid their use altogether. The use of profanity can also contribute to a less calm atmosphere. If a swear word is mild and infrequent, or if the member is particularly upset at the time, we might choose to let the rule infraction go unchallenged. Do not take any such examples of such leniency as a green light to post more of the same.

 

Secondly,  we are not an anti-benzo, anti-doctor, anti-medical profession forum. There is a place and a need for medicine and doctors in this world.  While some of us, perhaps many, have been subject to inferior medical care, your comments should only refer to your particular instance and not generally debase the entire medical profession. 

 

I know a little boy very well that is still undergoing periodic chemotherapy sessions to make certain his cancer stays in remission.  Where would he be without this care?

 

Anti-doctor, Anti-psychiatrist and Anti-medicine Comments

 

Whilst some of our members report negative experiences with doctors, psychiatrists, or the wider medical profession, and although we do not wish to outlaw comments about how members feel let down or mistreated in their personal medical care, you are not permitted to use this community as a platform to spread general anti-doctor or anti-psychiatry propaganda. Nor should you, unless you are posting a recommendation, name those involved in your healthcare.

 

Please read the referenced links for more information.

 

pianogirl

[Guest [bl...]]

Thank you for the intervention Pianogirl. I share half the blame for the thread veering off course, so please accept my apologies and a promise to stick to the rules going forwards. 

 

 

[[ho...]]

Personally, I feel great relief when others posting here are brave enough to say what Im certain, alot of us are thinking....

 

Just saying....

[[pi...]]

Thank you for the intervention Pianogirl. I share half the blame for the thread veering off course, so please accept my apologies and a promise to stick to the rules going forwards. 

 

Thank you very much blueWaters!

 

PG 

[[...]]

This thread is veering far off course now.

 

There are a couple of points I'd like to address. First of all, everyone agreed to follow rules and policies when joining the forum.  This includes being careful with profanity.  There are people who are sensitive to the use of profanity and while we don't edit out each and every occurrence, mostly due to the fact we have a small team to moderate a large forum,  it is important to post in a manner than is acceptable by all.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=108145.0

 

Please do not post profanity - disguised or otherwise - at this forum. Members will have differing sensitivities to the use of swear words, so it is better to avoid their use altogether. The use of profanity can also contribute to a less calm atmosphere. If a swear word is mild and infrequent, or if the member is particularly upset at the time, we might choose to let the rule infraction go unchallenged. Do not take any such examples of such leniency as a green light to post more of the same.

 

Secondly,  we are not an anti-benzo, anti-doctor, anti-medical profession forum. There is a place and a need for medicine and doctors in this world.  While some of us, perhaps many, have been subject to inferior medical care, your comments should only refer to your particular instance and not generally debase the entire medical profession. 

 

I know a little boy very well that is still undergoing periodic chemotherapy sessions to make certain his cancer stays in remission.  Where would he be without this care?

 

Anti-doctor, Anti-psychiatrist and Anti-medicine Comments

 

Whilst some of our members report negative experiences with doctors, psychiatrists, or the wider medical profession, and although we do not wish to outlaw comments about how members feel let down or mistreated in their personal medical care, you are not permitted to use this community as a platform to spread general anti-doctor or anti-psychiatry propaganda. Nor should you, unless you are posting a recommendation, name those involved in your healthcare.

 

Please read the referenced links for more information.

 

pianogirl

 

More than happy to apologise for the Profanity, it is not a socially accepted form of communication in some arenas of the "real world" so I can appreciate that this applies on the web.  Sorry.

 

However, I wont apologise for my hatred of the charlatans that call themselves doctors and hide behind their so called qualifications, especially those that patient blame once they themselves have inflicted the harm.

 

My experience has been that of Luke Montagu and his quote is exactly what happens in the majority of cases to the people with whom I have communicated with. There is an obvious fundamental flaw in the Psychiatric field and I don't see why there should be an issue on illuminating that fact from my experiences.

 

Further to this, it appears that you have assumed that maybe I am anti doctor or anti medicine when in fact this could not further from the truth. Unfortunately you have absolutely no idea of my current or past medical conditions. Doctors (i.e real doctors...surgeons) have resolved many health issues for me and have saved my life. When having surgery I was informed of the procedure, why it was to be done, how it was to be done, the success rate, the failure rate, the alternatives if it was unsuccessful, the risks with the surgery including anaesthesia, how recovery is expected to take place, etc.. All this was wrapped up in a nice little document for me to ingest over a couple of days then when I return I would sign the document only once I had been through it again with the surgeon and had any and all questions answered. And then I could sign if I wanted to proceed. Further to this, this was all free through the Australian Medicare system.

 

This however, is not the modus operandi of the prescribers dealing out these toxic drugs. Unfortunately for me I was misdiagnosed and harmed from these poisons prior to my surgical experience which in fact resolved the issue that was misdiagnosed, yet here I sit extremely unwell (like most on this site and others) from drugs I never needed for a condition that I never had not knowing when or if I will get well again. Had I had the experience if "informed consent" (for want of a better term) like the surgery I would not have been so fool hardy to have ingested toxic chemicals long term even though my instinct was not to, the manipulative, lying and very misinformed Doctor convinced me to do so. And might I had further to this, I was financially raped for this "privilege" and still continue to do so to this day while my prescribers have been on four, yes, four overseas holidays in the time period that I have been ill.

 

Let me repeat what I said in another post.....

 

"I was told that I had 3 separate mental disorders and would need to be on drugs the rest of my life. It was a garbage diagnosis based on absolutely no objective data. I never did have a mental disorder despite their insistence to the contrary."

 

If others believe that any psychiatric drugs will benefit them (other than extremely short indications and circumstances) than have at it but, if my anti-psychiatry and psych med stance based on my own experience stops one person from any or further harm then it has been more than worth being chastised for from the BB admin.

 

However, being the power base is definitely biased in your favour and understandably so, I can only follow the rules in which are provided.

 

Again, sorry for the profanity.

 

[[Lo...]]

Sorry for your suffering, PSVT. I wish that this didn't happen to you.

 

I wish that there was some real informed consent about benzodiazepines out there and wish that people wouldn't have to comb through obscure web pages such as benzo.org.uk or benzosupport.org  in order to find out the truths about these drugs. It shouldn't be this way, at all. The informed consent that benzodiazepines can cause iatrogenesis is something that needs to be communicated to the patient before the first prescriptions is ever given. This class of drugs has been around since 1960's, and there's no excuse for when this information is not given to patients. I am fearful that the medical profession still suffers from intellectual arrogance when it comes to this class of drugs. I just don't think that the doctors understand it enough. They think they do, but I don't think they actually do.

 

The rules here are really about liability and making sure that people here who are iatrogenically dependent on benzodiazepines can still get treatment for their medical problems, including the one of iatrogenic benzodiazepine dependence. I do not know what it's like in Australia, but I have noticed here in the United States with all the doctors that I had seen that their primary motivator in wanting to end my benzodiazepine prescriptions is liability driven fear. Never mind that I would have gotten 10,000 times sicker if my prescriptions were stopped, but it seems that, at least in my case, the doctor's liability seems to be more important that my actual patient's rights, and that is what makes me sick.

 

 

 

[[Fl...]]

However, I wont apologise for my hatred of the charlatans that call themselves doctors and hide behind their so called qualifications, especially those that patient blame once they themselves have inflicted the harm.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote but you have to understand why the admin team has to walk a fine line with regards to any negativity about doctors being posted. Not only is it a liability issue as Loraz pointed out but it is also necessary to keep it in check to avoid creating an anti-medicine culture here at BB. It wouldn't take much for this place to turn into a wild west free for all and if that were to happen everyone here would suffer and no one outside of the community would ever take this seriously.