Are we telling people the wrong thing ?

[[To...]]

I think there are many different situations that impact individuals.  Fighting4me, you are one example.  Based on your signature, you were also floxed. And damaged by benzo's, both.  Floxing alone often causes long term symptoms - how does the combination of both impact you?? (Rhetorical question).  And it appears you likely may have kindled, based on your history.  Your healing may be prolonged, or it may be the result of the floxing, etc.  We also have no idea with some people who post what their history is (or if they even KNOW about floxing), etc.  Are they all truthful? who knows?? What is their personal life like? Support network? diet?  Personal issues (relationships, lack of, loss of jobs, etc) also cause deep depression outside of the w/d.  Healing from benzos isn't going to help that.

And I honestly believe (no matter how much a taper may help), that if you're still on benzos, the healing is not going to be complete ever, unless you are.

 

So I guess my point is that we may "say" to people on here "You will heal" but it IS a bit of a blanket statement.  Benzo w/d can not heal what benzo's did not break - and we have no way to know if other things are "breaking" the individual - so maybe they will heal from benzos but not from other underlying things.

 

I still think the overall statement is relatively correct - and we can't sift through everyone's postings to ascertain why WE think they might not be healing and are miserable.  Most people will heal, given enough time, clean diets, positive outlooks, support system, and/or some combination...

 

but it certainly has exceptions...

[[Fi...]]

I think there are many different situations that impact individuals.  Fighting4me, you are one example.  Based on your signature, you were also floxed. And damaged by benzo's, both.  Floxing alone often causes long term symptoms - how does the combination of both impact you?? (Rhetorical question).  And it appears you likely may have kindled, based on your history.  Your healing may be prolonged, or it may be the result of the floxing, etc.  We also have no idea with some people who post what their history is (or if they even KNOW about floxing), etc.  Are they all truthful? who knows?? What is their personal life like? Support network? diet?  Personal issues (relationships, lack of, loss of jobs, etc) also cause deep depression outside of the w/d.  Healing from benzos isn't going to help that.

And I honestly believe (no matter how much a taper may help), that if you're still on benzos, the healing is not going to be complete ever, unless you are.

 

So I guess my point is that we may "say" to people on here "You will heal" but it IS a bit of a blanket statement.  Benzo w/d can not heal what benzo's did not break - and we have no way to know if other things are "breaking" the individual - so maybe they will heal from benzos but not from other underlying things.

 

I still think the overall statement is relatively correct - and we can't sift through everyone's postings to ascertain why WE think they might not be healing and are miserable.  Most people will heal, given enough time, clean diets, positive outlooks, support system, and/or some combination...

 

but it certainly has exceptions...

TN, where’s your sig?

 

My biggest downfall was Klonopin.  That I do know.  It was the wrong Benzo for me. 

I healed within a couple months from being floxed.  Like you said we have no way to know the full story.    I was functional driving, shopping going out.    My crossover to K that’s when things went south.  You are right you can’t make assumptions. 

[[To...]]

I was floxed several years ago and thought I was healed (more or less) - but since then, and the benzo "fiasco" :-) of my life, I wonder.  It makes me think that perhaps my CNS was damaged by the floxing (I've read a lot about this) and put into hypersensitive mode.  If I had not been floxed, would I have had the same symptoms, or as badly? I'll never know, but it's food for thought, isn't it?

I C/T's (out of ignorance) off of Valium - prescribed for muscle spasm that was the result of surgery.  Intermittent use (few times a month) for about 12 months.  That's it.  That's before I know about long half lives, tolerance, kindling....Very tough acute - now at about 10/11 months out. Much better.  After acute most of my symptoms were physical (luckily, I feel). 

Many of my symptoms were very similar to my floxing symptoms....but worse. 

Who knows? we just can't know the total picture when we say "we'll all heal"....

But I still feel most people do, especially those without complicating factors

[[Fi...]]

Well, everyone has an opinion.  No one really knows.  I’m glad you are doing better. 

[[To...]]

I think we all have opinions about everything....

but gosh, benzos - tough subject, because at the end of the day, we really don't know a lot "for sure"....

I do find this site helpful though with tips that have worked for me - and maybe sometimes just to vent or commiserate, you know?

[[Fi...]]

I think it’s helpful I think it needs to be more open about all possibilities.    I’d rather know then go crazy saying no one told me this could happen.  What’s wrong with me?  In fairness disclose all different possibilities of what this experience can be and involve. 

[[Ho...]]

I find your post very negative, yes I am a long term sufferer and still believe in a positive outcome after all. I can imagine this is not always positive for you. But at the end I don’t believe we stay like this forever.

[[of...]]

I think we all have opinions about everything....

but gosh, benzos - tough subject, because at the end of the day, we really don't know a lot "for sure"....

I do find this site helpful though with tips that have worked for me - and maybe sometimes just to vent or commiserate, you know?

 

 

 

It is a really great site. People have helped me so much. I just know for me personally had I not started the mirtazipine, I would not have been able to taper klonopin period. I’m not as strong as some of you all. I’ve taken cipro 3 times over the last 3 years. Now I’m wondering if that had anything to do with anything.

[[Su...]]

I don’t want this to be controversial but I’m having a hard time seeing people that are so sick years out. I’m having a hard time believing it’s still withdrawal (except for cold turkey people).

 

Maybe we shouldn’t be telling them it will get better. Maybe they do need to be on an anti depressant.

 

Please don’t attack the post. I’m just questioning the quality of life if the suffering goes on for so long.

 

This is exactly how I feel. People keep saying I’ll get better because I’ve only been on them 2 weeks and some change and got like this. And it’s November and this all happened end of July. It’s so tiring. I’m willing to take anything. I’m too young for this. It’s so depressing. I question my sanity everyday. I obsess over it. I’m like a caged animal in my damn head.

[[Sa...]]

This thread me realize I need to take a break temporarily from BB. Can’t obsess over this.

[[of...]]

Geez did anybody read the disclaimer ?

 

Can someone tell me how to delete this friggin post?

[[...]]

Can one get floxed from eye or ear drops?

[[Do...]]

Can one get floxed from eye or ear drops?

 

Yes, I have seen it a few times on here.

[[...]]

Can one get floxed from eye or ear drops?

 

Yes, I have seen it a few times on here.

 

JFC would this explain why I got my ass handed to me in WD? I’ve also used floxin eye drops in the past due to pink eye.

 

I was also taking the K alongside a steroid which I’ve read on here can increase dependency and/or exacerbate WD. I’m just incredulous about all of this.

[[...]]

I don’t want this to be controversial but I’m having a hard time seeing people that are so sick years out. I’m having a hard time believing it’s still withdrawal (except for cold turkey people).

 

Maybe we shouldn’t be telling them it will get better. Maybe they do need to be on an anti depressant.

 

Please don’t attack the post. I’m just questioning the quality of life if the suffering goes on for so long.

 

This is exactly how I feel. People keep saying I’ll get better because I’ve only been on them 2 weeks and some change and got like this. And it’s November and this all happened end of July. It’s so tiring. I’m willing to take anything. I’m too young for this. It’s so depressing. I question my sanity everyday. I obsess over it. I’m like a caged animal in my damn head.

 

Here is a quote from Luke Montagu that puts things into perspective for me.......

 

"Psychiatry is a corrupt and dishonest business: it treats so-called illnesses that don't exist with drugs that don't cure and can cause great harm. And once you have been harmed, it then diagnoses further illnes and prescribes yet more drugs".

 

And in my opinion, a truer word has never been spoken!

[[Do...]]

I think there is a whole other theory that people aren't accounting for.  Any time a person has an illness that isolates them from society, whether it is benzo withdrawal or a physical illness or injury, it takes a lot of work to re-integrate into society.  Even people who didn't have anxiety issues before their accident, may suffer social anxiety and depression after being sidelined for a while.  I had a botched surgery years ago, and spent over a month in the hospital and another couple of months mostly housebound.  Once all the tubes were removed and I was able to go out and do things again, it took a few months and a lot of work to get back into the swing of things. 

 

In regards to this feeling, this is NOT something that will heal - it is something that must be worked through.  Remember that during withdrawal, many times the only way to get through the severe terror or pain is to distract yourself.  This is great when the pain or anxiety is extreme, but in time as things start to heal, if we continue those behaviors we will not move forward.  I see people years out telling others to just distract during the bad times.  However, there does become a point that if you just keep distracting yourself, you will lose the ability to deal with things properly.  We can't distract ourselves every time life gets tough, and trying to do this long term will only worsen anxiety and depression.  Some of the things we do when we are in survival mode are not effective strategies for long term use.  I have seen people refuse to leave their house two years after getting off of benzos, because each time the person tried to go outside, she started shaking.  Each month, she would try to walk out the door, and if she shook or trembled at all, she decided she wasn't "healed from withdrawal" and retreated to her room for another month.  IN a case like this, the more she isolates herself, the worse the shaking is going to get - it is not just going to suddenly "heal" one day without her changing her habits.  If you notice, virtually all of the people who healed spontaneously were already pushing themselves, not just waiting around.

 

In other cases, it is a vitamin deficiency.  So many people tell others not to take vitamins because they make people worse, and for some people, that is true.  However, there have been people who were seriously deficient in "B" vitamins, but when they tried to take a supplement, they got revved up and decided to stop, stating they were getting worse.  However, several people who pressed through this "uncomfortable" feeling for a few weeks and got used to the vitamins found that once they fixed their deficiency, most of their "withdrawal" symptoms went away.  This can also be the case for exercising - I see some people refuse to exercise because it revs them up.  Yet I see many of the same people months later finally get annoyed from not being able to exercise and decided to push through the increased symptoms, again finding that the more the exercised, the better they felt.  Remember that just because something causes anxiety for a short period of time, it does not mean that it is necessarily bad for you.

 

Finally, there is always the chance that the person really did have their anxiety disorder get worse while they were on benzos.  Many people were on benzos for a decade or more (including myself!).  I have personally wondered if my anxiety could have gotten worse (in my case, I figured out how to stop the panic attacks and the anxiety did settle down post taper), but there was always the possibility that I developed a panic disorder the years I was on klonopin for sleep.  Had this happened, waiting to heal won't work, since the worsening of the anxiety is not benzo related.

 

And as the original poster said, it is possible that people are helped by other meds.  I have seen several cases of people who went years waiting for their depression or anxiety to heal, and when they finally gave in and tried an antidepressant, they did find it very helpful.  I know in the facebook groups, people who try antidepressants and find them helpful are often shunned by other members, so they usually don't stay in the groups long (or don't tell others they are on meds).  While I think psych meds are over prescribed and have a ton of side effects, if someone really is miserable and has no quality of life and antidepressants help them, the side effects may be worth it.  Some people really are helped by them, and if that is the case, there is no point in being miserable.

[[No...]]

This thread me realize I need to take a break temporarily from BB. Can’t obsess over this.

 

 

Sometimes that's a good thing to do. I've taken the odd break from here. I think some posts on BB go into too much detail and literally overthink things that no one truly knows the answers to. I try to take my life a day at a time and enjoy the good days as they are not happening very much. I could easily take to my bed and stay there, but I refuse to. I'm relieved that I'm not losing the plot when I read posts of others with the same WD symptoms as myself. I don't know what I'd have done if I hadn't found BB, but it is hard to read the suffering posts, but also positive when people have come through the other side and have got their lives back 

[[Su...]]

I don’t want this to be controversial but I’m having a hard time seeing people that are so sick years out. I’m having a hard time believing it’s still withdrawal (except for cold turkey people).

 

Maybe we shouldn’t be telling them it will get better. Maybe they do need to be on an anti depressant.

 

Please don’t attack the post. I’m just questioning the quality of life if the suffering goes on for so long.

 

This is exactly how I feel. People keep saying I’ll get better because I’ve only been on them 2 weeks and some change and got like this. And it’s November and this all happened end of July. It’s so tiring. I’m willing to take anything. I’m too young for this. It’s so depressing. I question my sanity everyday. I obsess over it. I’m like a caged animal in my damn head.

 

Here is a quote from Luke Montagu that puts things into perspective for me.......

 

"Psychiatry is a corrupt and dishonest business: it treats so-called illnesses that don't exist with drugs that don't cure and can cause great harm. And once you have been harmed, it then diagnoses further illnes and prescribes yet more drugs".

 

And in my opinion, a truer word has never been spoken!

 

This quote is so on point thank you for that

[[Fl...]]

There isn't a person on the face of the earth that "needs" an AD. It isn't air or food or water.

 

Honestly I don't think a lot of people understand that like benzos, AD's don't cure anything, they can be every bit as dangerous as benzos and when you take them you are taking a big risk with your health.

 

I understand some people might be at the end of their rope and in those cases it might be an option to consider but in my opinion that is the only justifiable reason to take them. I would suggest anyone who is considering it to do lots of research and weigh their options very carefully.

[[ea...]]

First of all, HI Florida Guy! This is east, and I live in Florida too.

 

I agree with what you said. Completely. Ads, did not do a thing for me even though I took them 12 years, along with my nightly benzo line up. Truth is, I was all along in tolerance withdrawal, which produces all sorts of symptoms, and depression is one of them. Thus, my psych doc put me on various ADs but my depression never got better til I got OFF benzos. I personally think ADs are fake and a sort of fake bandaid when other issues are causing a person's sadness.

 

I think ADs were created ONLY to mkake money for drug companies and are a waste of money and time. Taking them gives people false hope, when what they need to do is become drug FREE and see how they truly are OFF all drugs (except for things like BP meds or heart meds or diabetes meds.)

east

[[of...]]

All I was trying to say was that if I was still suffering five years after being done, I would not be able to endure and I would see a doctor. I know me. I couldn’t handle it. This is coming from someone who had problems before benzos and did get relief from anti depressants at some point.

 

I apologize if I have offended anyone. I just worry about people having to endure such suffering that far out.

 

After reading, I do understand more about the “injury” aspect of things.

 

I wish this thread would just go away now.

[[me...]]

Geez did anybody read the disclaimer ?

 

Can someone tell me how to delete this friggin post?

 

Hi, fyi,

 

Once a thread has been replied to, and this one currently seems to be a hot topic -- it cannot be deleted according to our rules.  Most threads stop getting replies within several days, and when that happens they drop down the list.  Posts are the property of the forum, not the poster. 

 

So, if you'd like the thread to vanish, you might want to stop posting on it, and that may help the process. 

 

[[bu...]]

There isn't a person on the face of the earth that "needs" an AD. It isn't air or food or water.

 

 

 

That same logic would also say no one ever needs an antibiotic (or a pain killer, or a sedative, or...)

[[Fl...]]

That same logic would also say no one ever needs an antibiotic (or a pain killer, or a sedative, or...)

 

I would argue that antibiotics could fall under the need category as this is a class of drug that can save your life, but the point is that the word "need" is thrown around very loosely and that can be a dangerous thing when it comes to psych drugs. Especially considering that the perceived "need" that is created by them is often not from an organic health issue but is a direct result of the drugs themselves.

[[Fi...]]

That same logic would also say no one ever needs an antibiotic (or a pain killer, or a sedative, or...)

 

I would argue that antibiotics could fall under the need category as this is a class of drug that can save your life, but the point is that the word "need" is thrown around very loosely and that can be a dangerous thing when it comes to psych drugs. Especially considering that the perceived "need" that is created by them is often not from an organic health issue but is a direct result of the drugs themselves.

 

FG, have you no concern of some who have been taking benzodiazepines for decades, have tried unsuccessfully to quit them but can't due to not being able to function or not being able to  maintain an adequate quality of life? For these people, there is a true need to continue benzodiazepines or likely die or live an intolerable life until death.

 

It's true that the need would not have existed if they had not been prescribed benzos initially or if they had only used them short-term. But, through no fault of their own, they have a true & legitimate need to continue with benzo treatments.

 

To say there is no need for benzos, it delegitimizes these injured people.