Detox, please read

[[ma...]]

ok ..sorry .. guess I was reading somebody else's signature. 

 

Yes.. i crossed over about 15 days ago and I'm now over dosed ..but starting the taper ..

so hopefully I can eliminate that devil. 

 

God help us all fishy...  Other's get thru this ..surely we can.  I'm like you .. so sensitive to all of this stuff and every cut. 

[[fi...]]

I feel ya Mary Anna. I pray for all of us, all the time.

It just seems like God has no place in these man made horrible creations.

It's like in Jurassic park per say, it isn't a matter if they could create these meds, it's a matter if they should...

They did so little in terms of long term safety and side effect profile, and what they did find they willingly withheld from public knowledge, so it is truly dealing with the unknown/evil/beast. 

[[Lo...]]

Valium 7.25 mg. Remeron 5mg. No CBD. No Ativan. No Buspar. No Gabapentin.

I read the phoenix  rising forum about some members that quickly sank on valium, lost energy and muscle fast, bed bound, health declined rapidly, so I know I'm not alone.

 

I think 7.25mg Valium is a good place to stay for a while. I'd recommend listening to some Claire Weekes audios. It helps a bit.

 

http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/claire-weekes-audio.2569/

[[ma...]]

Fishy .. the one thing that is helping me a bit is the bentonite clay.  I mentioned it once before .. I'm telling ya ..we are toxic ..the drugs are toxic .. we have to take them to taper but in between doses I'm taking the clay .  I think it will help me clear faster.  I'm sure no doc will agree with this .. but I'm doing it.  you might think about it .  www.redmondclay.com  that one works... some don't. 

 

There is power in prayer.  Let's keep it up..  maybe we can get others to pray too.  I will pray for you by name... God knows who you are.  We will get thru this.  You will get thru this .  You are a young man.  You will make it. 

 

 

[[Wi...]]

Man Fish.......thats the lowest T level ive ever heard of for a 32 yr. old man. 190 is more like a 90 yr. old man! Have you been to an endocrinologist? What is the cause of your T tanking from 700 to 190? That doesnt just “happen” out of the blue without something causing it. Did they figure the actual cause?  It surely seems like you have something else going on besides a person who has held at a 7.5 valium taper for 18 months who is suffering debilitating wd.....or something else. This isnt “normal” by any means. Ive never heard of anything even close to your situation, even on this BB forum, hence it at least seeming like something else may be going on. Have you decided on rehab yet?

[[fi...]]

No on the endo. Just treated the symptoms. The prolactin wasn't high enough to consider tumor they said.

The going consensus was the benzos and psych meds crashed my test. On the test forums many members had this happen on opiates and benzos. Seemed to fit. Haven't decided on rehab because I don't know where to go.

[[Ma...]]

Have you considered switching to a different benzo to see if Valium is just not agreeing with you? I know you were thinking Librium before.

[[ch...]]

My heart goes out to you so much, and here was I feeling sorry for myself. About 4 months ago

I went to my doctors with early morning anxiety, and felt unable to cope with looking after my disabled son.

I was given diazepam, not at a high dose, and at first I took it intermittently, as needed, but slowly I began to feel sick, more anxiety lasting all day, and developed agoraphobia, Till then I was outgoing, and a one time runner. Now I am depressed, anxious nauseous, and struggle to eat,  dry retching. I only take 4mgs a day of diazepam, and did try a slight increase to see if it would help, but it made me worse, pacing, heaving, scaring my brother and me. I have tried a slow reduce but I am not well enough now to withstand more symptoms. I truly believe that diazepam is a poison to me, but all the doctors say is just stop it. I do know it's doing the exact opposite of what it should, and I'm stuck in bed now, feeling worried what will happen and who will care for my son.

All I can say is I havn't taken anything but diazepam and for a short time, and this is how ill I am. I can identify with how you feel, and admire your steadfast bravery and determination to find an answer.

There must be one out there.

Keep fighting 

[[Wi...]]

My heart goes out to you so much, and here was I feeling sorry for myself. About 4 months ago

I went to my doctors with early morning anxiety, and felt unable to cope with looking after my disabled son.

I was given diazepam, not at a high dose, and at first I took it intermittently, as needed, but slowly I began to feel sick, more anxiety lasting all day, and developed agoraphobia, Till then I was outgoing, and a one time runner. Now I am depressed, anxious nauseous, and struggle to eat,  dry retching. I only take 4mgs a day of diazepam, and did try a slight increase to see if it would help, but it made me worse, pacing, heaving, scaring my brother and me. I have tried a slow reduce but I am not well enough now to withstand more symptoms. I truly believe that diazepam is a poison to me, but all the doctors say is just stop it. I do know it's doing the exact opposite of what it should, and I'm stuck in bed now, feeling worried what will happen and who will care for my son.

All I can say is I havn't taken anything but diazepam and for a short time, and this is how ill I am. I can identify with how you feel, and admire your steadfast bravery and determination to find an answer.

There must be one out there.

Keep fighting

 

 

There is an “answer” out there and the answer is STOP the medicine. Im taking the time to write because you need to stop now before you become a long term user which will make it much harder to wd from. You are on a very low dose of valium and you should taper immediately. If i were in your shoes i would do the short end of the ashton taper. Ashton recommends making cuts every 1-2 weeks. If i were you i would make the cuts every one week ie the low end. You havent much of a habit but every day you continue to injest this poison you are making it that much more difficult for yourself. You have no choice unless you intentionally wanna feel like crap forever because what you are experiencing is tolerance withdrawal which you will continue to feel indefinitely until you stop the valium altogether. I know it is daunting but you have no choice. Please make a decision soon as to when to begin your taper before this turns into an even worse nightmare. Ignore the hooror stories on this site. You could very well feel much better much sooner then people on this site given your low dose short term usage. There is no mystery to what you are feeling. It is ALL tolerance wd and nothing more. I urge you to take this seriously for your own sake. Good luck!

[[ma...]]

 

There is an “answer” out there and the answer is STOP the medicine. Im taking the time to write because you need to stop now before you become a long term user which will make it much harder to wd from. You are on a very low dose of valium and you should taper immediately. If i were in your shoes i would do the short end of the ashton taper. Ashton recommends making cuts every 1-2 weeks. If i were you i would make the cuts every one week ie the low end. You havent much of a habit but every day you continue to injest this poison you are making it that much more difficult for yourself. You have no choice unless you intentionally wanna feel like crap forever because what you are experiencing is tolerance withdrawal which you will continue to feel indefinitely until you stop the valium altogether. I know it is daunting but you have no choice. Please make a decision soon as to when to begin your taper before this turns into an even worse nightmare. Ignore the hooror stories on this site. You could very well feel much better much sooner then people on this site given your low dose short term usage. There is no mystery to what you are feeling. It is ALL tolerance wd and nothing more. I urge you to take this seriously for your own sake. Good luck!

 

 

Windwalker, Please adopt a non-prescriptive writing style!  It can be very dangerous telling members what they should or must do! its against the rules of this forum.  Relating your experiences, stating options, or posting suggestions are all welcome. 

 

A more detailed explanation can be found in our Guidelines Regarding the Giving of Medical Advice document.

 

Guidelines Regarding the Giving of Medical Advice

 

Thanks

 

Magrita

 

 

[[ch...]]

Thank  you so much for taking the time to reply.

I have already thought I need to stop this awful drug that is doing nothing at all for me, and in fact making me worse, but scared about doing it correctly and not making matters worse. if that's possible.

I have been spreading the dose over the day at 1mg a time so as not to start nodding off then waking abruptly in shock, panic, and anxiety. However I may well take it as one dose tonight, and perhaps go down by .5mg to 3.5mgs. At least it will feel like a positive step instead of being in limbo and getting myself in a worse mental turmoil, and more addicted as time goes on.

I have a home visit scheduled tomorrow morning  from a psychiatrist. They are like gold, so wont waste it, and will discuss what is best to do, but I know for certain I want to be off diazepam, tapering down. It gives me just a little bit of hope of getting back to eating which I am sure has been effected by the pills, making me continually nauseous,  and if I can eat, I stand a chance of getting better. Once again, thank you so so  much

[[Wi...]]

Thank  you so much for taking the time to reply.

I have already thought I need to stop this awful drug that is doing nothing at all for me, and in fact making me worse, but scared about doing it correctly and not making matters worse. if that's possible.

I have been spreading the dose over the day at 1mg a time so as not to start nodding off then waking abruptly in shock, panic, and anxiety. However I may well take it as one dose tonight, and perhaps go down by .5mg to 3.5mgs. At least it will feel like a positive step instead of being in limbo and getting myself in a worse mental turmoil, and more addicted as time goes on.

I have a home visit scheduled tomorrow morning  from a psychiatrist. They are like gold, so wont waste it, and will discuss what is best to do, but I know for certain I want to be off diazepam, tapering down. It gives me just a little bit of hope of getting back to eating which I am sure has been effected by the pills, making me continually nauseous,  and if I can eat, I stand a chance of getting better. Once again, thank you so so  much

 

 

Sorry magrita but i stand by my post. I wasnt “prescriptive” as you noted given i said “if i were you” and then advised him to begin an ashton taper.  And as you can tell, my post actually helped chinchuck given he thanked me and he now actually seems motivated to begin an ashton taper which hopefully he brought up with his psychologist today. Many Pdocs believe Ashton is wrong when she recommends such a long taper (as u well know) so hopefully chinchucks Pdoc listens to him. If ive assisted in motivating chinchuck in beginning a taper i will take your “warning” any day of the week given im on this forum to hopefully help people with my decades of experience with benzos which i actully did with chinchuck regardless your surly reprimand. Let us know how your Pdoc appointment went today chinchuck ie if he agreed to an Ashton taper or......? Good luck. You GOT this!

[[ma...]]

Hey Windwalker ... try to get your doc to prescribe clonodine 1mg for those big blood pressure spikes .  Works quickly .. and it's an emergency pill..  That is what I use if my BP spike goes too high and doesn't come down pretty quick.  i go into Afib if i'm close to or at 200 for even a little while.  so Clonodine .. and sometimes I only take l/2 .  Have had to use them very seldom but good to know I have them.

 

good post.  Liked your advice. 

 

 

[[ea...]]

That is pretty good advice. Beta Blockers have two good potential results: lowering the blood pressure and also calming anxiety just a bit.

Clonidine is often given in detox centers for this very reason.

 

Windwalker, I tend to agree with Magrita. I have noticed that in some of your posts, you come off sounding like a physician, or someone who knows better than other people. This can be dangerous when dealing with people here on BB. I  KNOW you mean well! That is not the point. Keep in mind that some people here are in the throes of acute withdrawal. Their minds may not be functioning as well as they should. People in this state may OVER react to stuff they read here and become easily terrified. It would be more helpful for all members to word things more carefully, keeping this in mind.

 

I am an RN of many (TOO many) years. I worked on an acute psych unit for years and in a detox center for over a year. And yet - all that time I was addicted to benzos. I found out the hard way that I do NOT know everything about benzos and how diffewrent people respond to them, or even how bad withdrawal can be for some people. I learned the hard way that I did not have all the answers. This came as a bit of a shock! I think you are trying to help people here, but please be more careful how you word things. We are NOT physicians (THANK GOD!) we are "mere mortals" who share a problem.

[[Wi...]]

Hey Windwalker ... try to get your doc to prescribe clonodine 1mg for those big blood pressure spikes .  Works quickly .. and it's an emergency pill..  That is what I use if my BP spike goes too high and doesn't come down pretty quick.  i go into Afib if i'm close to or at 200 for even a little while.  so Clonodine .. and sometimes I only take l/2 .  Have had to use them very seldom but good to know I have them.

 

good post.  Liked your advice. 

 

 

Thanks for the heads up Mary Anna and glad you enjoyed my advice! I think the moderators get bored at times and feel the need to disrupt for whatever reasons but overall they do a great job!🤓🤣  Mostly im happy chinchuck is actually going to possibly begin a taper before he gets in any deeper.  Its odd you mention clonodine because I AM taking clonodine which im sure has helped with my overwhelming symptoms. I was on a clonidine patch PLUS like 4-6 mg per day pills which is insanely high but my spikes were insanely high. Im down to like 2mg daily, and am taking “nifidipine” (procardia) for my bp spikes which works even better then the clonodine. If you are still having spikes i highly suggest you discuss nifidipine with your Dr. Ive tried every bp med in the book and nifidipine works best....by far, if you can stomach calcium channel blockers.  But again, discuss this with your Dr......obviously. Thats how my nightmare began. Many trips to the er and many benzo injections until i finally got a script. I think everybody should research clonodine with their Drs. because it definitely has an anxiolitic effect, almost benzo like with out gaba disruption. Anyway-thanks again for the “like” and i truly hope your suffering has been barable today and is on its way to an end. Take care and stay positive!

[[ma...]]

Windwalker .. let me ask you a question if you don't mind.  a little history .. i was on ativan for 2 yrs for anxiety attacks that led to afib if not stopped.  reached tolerance on ativan..doc switched me to klonopin 1mg at nite .5 during day..for 8 weeks...bad for me.. K puts me into anxiety attacks.  recently crossed over to Valium.. doc did it wrong gave me 2mg  Ha.. ER and all that .. finally 15 mg V for the last 13 days.  I know the ativan and klonopin has damaged the receptors ..but now that i'm stable on V ..all heart and bp spikes have stopped.. but i'm drugged.. started cutting dose by l/4.  since I've only been 13 days on 15mg .. do you think I could really drop a whole 5 mg and then slow taper the remaining 10 mg ?  All my symptoms are heart and bp.  What'ca think ?  just your opinion of course .. just interested in your take since you have experience with this WD stuff. 

[[Wi...]]

Mary Anna

Wow! Your experience is incredibly close to my own. We just posted at the same time so read my prior post. I dont have time to post right now (out to dinner) but i will later. Let me state first that “i, windwalker am not a physician so dont take my advice as you would a physicians because i speak only from my own SUBJECTIVE experience and ALWAYS consult your physician before making any medication changes.” I hope that suits the moderators (and EC)🤣. Chat latr!

[[Le...]]

Windwalker, we need your candid advice. Thank you.

[[fi...]]

At 7mg now. 5mg Remeron. Not too many changes, nothing anxiety wise. Lungs hurt as an asthmatic laying down so much. Weak.

Kind of a window last two days, but today woke up with suicidal migraine. Started Flovent steroid for lungs, not sure.

[[ma...]]

fishy...good on the 7 mg. 

 

one step at a time ... glad you got a window... you deserve it.   

 

 

[[fi...]]

Thanks Mary Anna.

 

I was wondering what your heart attack symptoms felt like?

I have some concerning chest pain and am curious.

How do you feel that clay is helping you if st all?

I actually have some and am going to start it.

[[ma...]]

Good Morning Fishy:

 

My Heart Attack symptoms:  BP shot up to 220/106/105 / dizzy, weak, nauseous, pressure in middle of chest, left arm pain, jaw pain, extreme head ache about ear line around head. 

I took Clonodine 1 mg, and Lorazepam .5mg.. Heart beat irregular and escalated to 165 . now in Afib

called 911.  Was in hospital for 3 days.  Afib converted after 12 hrs.  All heart tests showed nothing.  I told them I was in withdrawal from Lorazepam and had been off for 3 days.. They did not take that into consideration at all.  Said it was cardiac.  I declined heart cath and all that.. Heart rhythm returned to normal..bp normal .. internal shaking for 3 days because I wouldn't take ativan.  First time I ever had those exact symptoms.  Other times .. My BP would spike, rapid heartbeat, would feel slightly dizzy,butterflies in stomach .. would take Lorazepam and it would go away..  if it didn't go away quick enough I would take the emergency Colodine BP pill 1mg.  but my bp is normally low ..so would bottom out.. so didn't take that very often.  Also at beginning if I would get on the rebounder (mini trampoline) and just bounce ..too weak to jump..and only a few minutes..rest and do it again - it would often go away..that would prove that it was an anxiety attack and not heart related.  When you feel those beginning feelings ..use big muscles and it will stop an anxiety attack.  Also the fact that Lorazepam would make it go away proved it was anxiety related not heart.  I had stopped lorazepam after a slow taper ..not slow enough because I had interdose tolerance and was requiring it every few hrs instead of every few days.  was put on Klonodine for 8 weeks and it gave me the anxiety symptoms and palpitations continued.  Finally Valium .. and finally correct dose .. I now have no heart palpitations and I awoke to them every morning at 5 a.m.  Tapering Valium now.  Every symptom I got was related to my heart and it was all caused by tolerance to either Lorazepam or Klonodine.  Lorazepam (Ativan) is great to stop an emergency anxiety attack..but very strong and you get to tolerance very quickly.  I will never take any of it again. 

I take liquid clay that I have made up in the refrigerator about 3 oz every morning..drink water ... don't eat or take meds for an hour ..  and do it again late afternoon .. before bed is good but i'm usually taking my valium at that time.  The clay absorbs toxins and will help clear the drugs out of your system.. even though you are still replacing them.. it will speed your detox.  Clay is amazing.  What brand do you have... it makes a difference.  You may need to take a stool softner ....clay makes some people constipated in the beginning. 

 

If you don't have a rebounder ..think about getting one.  when you can't do anything else .. just bouncing even if holding onto chair or bar or something helps..  it keeps lymphatic system moving and that all helps you get well.  It also distracts your mind.  When we are so sick ..we can't just go walking .  but we can bounce.   

 

 

[[ma...]]

Fishy...the bouncing will also help your lungs  .. which is probably what is giving you the chest or heart symptoms.    just a thought.  got to move or we lose all function. 

[[Lo...]]

Hope everything goes well, fish. Please keep in mind that there are plenty of GABA receptors in the lungs, as well, and that is another reason to taper slow. My allergies got way worse during tolerance and I also started coughing in withdrawal and feeling that chest pressure myself. Speeding up the taper too much will not help those issues. Most people think GABA receptors are in the brain only, and they're not. Congrats on lowering both valium and remeron. I'd be very careful not to reduce remeron any further. There were people on this forum who had tried to get off both too quickly and it didn't work too great for them. The remaining remeron you are taking might be very helpful with the remainder of the valium taper. Good luck with everything.

[[Gr...]]

I second the fact that allergies get worse during withdrawal.  I was prescribed a flovent inhaler at one point, but then I took a xanax and all my breathing problems went away.  I spent a long time trying to figure out how I would ever know if it was actually asthma or just anxiety, not realizing the ill effects of withdrawal at the time.