Detox, please read

[[fi...]]

I appreciate the feedback. Today, the bad ideations got a hold of me. Worse than before, and I almost acted. Being trained medically doesn't mean jack crap when 1) we lose dr's ,nurses, psychologists, neurologists, medics etc, to these drugs 2) we barely understand what they do.

 

Why am I suffering? Who knows honestly. We all have speculations, including me. Could it be I don't metabolize valium well and it builds up to toxic type levels? Could this be tolerance?

 

In the beginning last year, the taper from 25 mg to 10 mg was actually easy. Once I hit 10mg I felt the dreaded wall, I even told the "expert", I hear all the trouble is when one reaches 10mg or below. I was laughed at, and said that's no, the easy part, slam.

As time went on, we're talking 14 months, the worse I got. It did NOT matter how I tapered down, .25 mg, .50 mg, liquid, long hold like I've been at now for months at 7.5 mg. Nothing help(s)(ed). Why? Again who knows.

 

What I'm experiencing is now life threatening. My breathing as an asthmatic is getting considerably depressed, I'm on my back in bed most of the day leaving pneumonia open, my heart is working hard as I can feel the beats and lethargy, I can't exercise and am now in a painful catabolic state, eating once a day, horrible dry mouth, throat, and eyes, long crying jags, dark depression from all of this madness, and cyclical vomiting. I've employed every remedy almost to man kind for most of these symptoms with minimal results. This is not ok. This is not normal.

 

So if I hold longer, more than likely the toxicity will continue. I know this because there were many long holds from 10 mg and below, each with resulting like symptoms.

 

Getting off fast, as we all know is heavily frowned upon for good reasons.

 

But, um, where does that leave me? Everyday of inaction I feel leads closer to my demise.

I'm grouped into, well I've never heard of that happening, or people take much larger doses than you and are just fine for life.

Well, I'm not them. I'm me. If I was an animal, I'd put it out of its misery. But I cling to hope, with help from my wife and Wind and fellow buddies via PM. I fall into what seems like no category, or the extreme category which is disheartening.

I'm mean Jesus Christ (help me), if I saw someone go through what i was going through, I'd tell them to get the hell off the drugs.

Sleeping 14 hours and living with such symptoms is truly hell.

[[Lo...]]

Just wondering if you actually thought of swapping Valium for an equivalent dose of Librium and giving that a try. I wonder if you have that option at all. Not that Librium is amazing. But, it's not a hypnotic like Valium is, so it won't have the temazepam metabolite in it. The 13-14 hour sleep might get shorter. The Valium + Remeron + CBD might be an oversleeping combination. Just guessing.

[[fi...]]

I have pondered the librium idea a lot recently.

I was told it's very similar, and my research has come up a little short on it.

They use it in detoxes, it's an old benzo, but I wonder about it.

[[Lo...]]

It's and old one. I'd never taken it. I recall my mother being on Tranxene (which was similar) for several months. She got off with few problems. I think librium is probably the weakest bzd out there. It comes in capsules, so tapering could be tricky. Tranxene is another option, too. I'd think that it may be theoretically possible to switch from Valium to Librium or Tranxene because the rate at which they leave the system and build up in it are pretty comparable. It's not like an Ativan to Valium crossover zoo.

[[ma...]]

Fishy... I'm new here ... but this I know.... you sound very toxic.  If I were you .. I would use bentonite clay.

I only use Redmondclay.com    Different clays do not act the same.  I use large glass container .. measure the purified water or distilled .. one tsp to each 8oz water.  Let it sit on top until it drops... then stir .. or use emersion blender .. don't let metal be in contact very long .. metal should not touch it ..but the blender works quickly .. by this point it has sat probably 20-30 min.  Now drink about 4 oz.  Away from your meds by an hour.  It will absorb all toxins.  repeat this 2-3x a day.  If you become constipated - take a stool softner .. not a laxative ..a softner.  It is important to keep things moving.  The clay is full of minerals etc ..but that is not the point .. Each grain absorbs up to 7x its size in pathogens.  DO iIT.  it will probably save your life.  It did mine. 

 

I know it sounds weird with all our modern meds etc .. but then again that is why we are here and sick. 

 

Do not store in plastic .. it will absorb the bad stuff in that .. glass only .. wooden or plastic spoon to stir.  I refrigerate .. tastes better cold.  really no taste ...but better cold. 

 

Praying for you. 

 

 

[[Le...]]

Wait... I thought you were going to a Detox place?  It seemed like the best alternative and now - it seems absolutely necessary. Please go.

[[Gr...]]

I would at least go and try some librium and see if it helps you feel better.  If it does, than it might make your life so much easier to cross over to it.  I am really thinking that it's the valium making you feel this ill and your need to cross over.  Just my opinion, I'm not a doctor, etc...etc..  Good luck. 

[[Wi...]]

Fish

Youve been tapering since fed. 2017 and have been stuck at 7.5 mg of valium for 19 months? I misunderstood that. It seems you are waiting to actually “stabalise” ie as if you arent going to feel any more withdrawal and then cut the 7.5 mg....right? Given benzos create tolerance withdrawal,  you arent going to stabalise in that manner. I think stabalise is intended to mean “when you are mentally ready” to make another cut in your dose.  So you havent made any cuts in 19 months from 7.5 because you are waiting to “stabalise?” Whats going on is that you are in constant tolerance withdrawal. Its that simple. Youre not allergic nor having a paradoxical effect nor are you different then anybody else, sans your symptoms seem to be amplified, yet they are are still only symptoms of benzo wd and nothing else. You are in constant tolerance wd.  You need to finish the taper from the 7.5 which is already a very low benzo dose and then jump. You will continue to feel the way you do until you completely stop and give your brain time to heal. Your suffering will end....guaranteed but you need to take the jump. I thought you began your taper feb. 2018 from 7.5. Being on 7.5 for 18-19 months is insane because again, you have been in constant tolerance wd and you should have been off the 7.5 long ago. All your symptoms are due to tolerance wd fish. It is imperative you finish your taper from 7.5 or you will continue feeling the same way you do now. This will be over for you 100% guarateed for sure but you must actually stop taking the drug first or you wont begin to heal. Good luck. You GOT this!

[[Le...]]

Fish

Youve been tapering since fed. 2017 and have been stuck at 7.5 mg of valium for 19 months? I misunderstood that. It seems you are waiting to actually “stabalise” ie as if you arent going to feel any more withdrawal and then cut the 7.5 mg....right? Given benzos create tolerance withdrawal,  you arent going to stabalise in that manner. I think stabalise is intended to mean “when you are mentally ready” to make another cut in your dose.  So you havent made any cuts in 19 months from 7.5 because you are waiting to “stabalise?” Whats going on is that you are in constant tolerance withdrawal. Its that simple. Youre not allergic nor having a paradoxical effect nor are you different then anybody else, sans your symptoms seem to be amplified, yet they are are still only symptoms of benzo wd and nothing else. You are in constant tolerance wd.  You need to finish the taper from the 7.5 which is already a very low benzo dose and then jump. You will continue to feel the way you do until you completely stop and give your brain time to heal. Your suffering will end....guaranteed but you need to take the jump. I thought you began your taper feb. 2018 from 7.5. Being on 7.5 for 18-19 months is insane because again, you have been in constant tolerance wd and you should have been off the 7.5 long ago. All your symptoms are due to tolerance wd fish. It is imperative you finish your taper from 7.5 or you will continue feeling the same way you do now. This will be over for you 100% guarateed for sure but you must actually stop taking the drug first or you wont begin to heal. Good luck. You GOT this!

 

 

So so agree with this. But he claims he can’t go further down in taper on his own and has the resources for detox so it is imperative he go!!! This was what I said and I am so grateful you are too. I was sick in tolerance too

[[ma...]]

hope fishy goes where they go slow and give him vitamin IV's and all that good stuff.  Bless his heart. 

 

[[Lo...]]

http://benzoinfo.com/2018/04/20/why-prescribed-benzo-patients-shouldnt-go-to-detox-or-rehab/

[[Le...]]

What a great article written by some one who really knows what they are talking about! So, yes a slow taper at home is the best approach based on evidence based research; but Fishy seems to fall into that note on Reason #4 with the paradoxical affects.  And since he has admitted that he can’t get any lower (not a weakness but a strength to admit when you need help!); he should make sure the treatment center tapers him safely and without introducing more drugs.  Fishy, if you agree to Dana Farber then I am sure they would not have you go through the 12 step program but rather get you through detox as swiftly as possible.  Let us know how it goes!  We are all here for you.

[[fi...]]

Yeah, thank you.

I've read all of the internet and more for 18 months on this.

I could do a Master's thesis on this. Yet I cannot make progress.

Stuck in a sick swamp.

My family and I are meeting on Monday.

Do any of you have any suggestions on places?

Yes, I still have some places, but I'm just getting rapidly ill.

I wish they could put me out, go through withdrawal, IV nutrients, and wake back up!

[[Lo...]]

What a great article written by some one who really knows what they are talking about! So, yes a slow taper at home is the best approach based on evidence based research; but Fishy seems to fall into that note on Reason #4 with the paradoxical affects.  And since he has admitted that he can’t get any lower (not a weakness but a strength to admit when you need help!); he should make sure the treatment center tapers him safely and without introducing more drugs.  Fishy, if you agree to Dana Farber then I am sure they would not have you go through the 12 step program but rather get you through detox as swiftly as possible.  Let us know how it goes!  We are all here for you.

 

Thanks, LeslieJ. Thanks for bringing that point up. Yes, it is a really difficult situation and it is not clear what the best course of action is. Yes, valium can cause all kinds of problems and side effects, but I am still not convinced that someone who is having that many problems getting off of 7.4mg Valium can just go to 0mg in a short amount of time. I mean, this process gets just downright awful for some of us, and the suffering can be horrific and undescribable even with a slow taper.

 

It's absolutely not a weakness if someone cannot reduce their dose. Not the very least. For some people, this gets extremely physiological, meaning that there are probably some physiological reasons he can't taper. Perhaps, the body is too weak and tired at the moment to drop the dose, it may be missing certain nutrients, etc.

 

If I were fishy and had money to spend on good care, instead of a detox, I'd look for a functional medicine doctor and get thoroughly checked out to rule out any other reasons that are making the taper difficult. Only then would I proceed with any kind of a taper or a detox plan. Just my two cents.

[[Wi...]]

Something to think about: Rehab isnt a guaranteed cure all Fish. Ive been to rehab and its much easier to kick in the comfort of your home vs. in a rehab filled with strangers and a regime that you must follow. Theres a good chance you may get to rehab and say “fuck this man, i cant do this in front of strangers and having staff telling me what to do and when to do it.” You may believe its a magic bullet, which it can be for opiates and alcholics, but people kicking benzos have a very difficult time kicking in rehab because of the length of the wd. . No way in hell would i kick benzos in rehab yet i have kicked opiates in rehab. Totally different withdrawals. Heres an idea that ive actually done myself but it was with opiates. I couldnt stop them myself nor could i be trusted to do a certain daily detox dose so i gave my stash to a friend. My friend stopped by once a day and gave me my daily dose with each days dose progressively less and less until it was zero. Given you dont seem to be able to lower your dose by yourself do you have someone that could deliver you a daily taper dose so you can finally get past the 7.5?  Ive even used this detox technique through the mail before. My friend lived across country and sent me a daily envelope with a progressively lower opiate dose and it actually worked. Again-i cant stress enough how much for me personally, no way would i kick benzos in a strange regimented atmosphere such as a rehab facility. What makes you think it will be any easier vs. the comfort of your own home? You are still gonna be suffering withdrawal. You will simply be suffering in a strange atmosphere. Good luck!

[[fi...]]

Well, I never liked the idea of even being on these damn meds.

I refused them, and got injected anyways.

I have no itch to take them, no anxiety, just brutal crushing physical issues.

On top of that, I am now at 300lbs. up from 240lbs 1.5 years ago.

I never thought the day would come where 1) I was addicted to pills 2) I'd reach 300lbs.

I am disgusted. With the amount of sleeping I do and little eating I do, it makes no sense with all of the fasting that takes place to gain this much weight. I know so much about how and why the body stores, but this should not have happened. Even if I do look like a pregnant body builder, it's not safe on the heart.

It all started when on Remeron. No matter what I ate, or how much, I gained weight fast.

 

My once water fall like internal temple has turned to swamp infested ruins.

I'd like to get off these damaging drugs!!!

I have to go somewhere, I made a promise, I keep my word.

 

[[Lo...]]

So sorry. I gained a bunch of weight from Valium myself. I have not taken Remeron, but it is well known for causing weight gain. So sorry about the weight gain. It is just yet another insult from these drugs.

 

You may want to check you blood sugar and a1c. That went way up for me during this. Never had blood glucose issues, but was diagnosed with Type II diabetes in wd and was prescribed Metformin for it.

 

It seems to me that people through this either lose weight or gain weight. Anything is possible.

 

I dropped 5mg of Valium since February and it has been torment. I went from 10mg to 8.75mg down to 7.5mg and then 6.25mg and then 5mg. I did all cuts about a month apart and I am still reeling  . Even more agoraphobic than before.

 

It is very scary. All of it. I am so sorry you are suffering this bad.

 

 

[[fi...]]

Yeah it's disgusting.

Truly insulting.

 

A1c is 4.9-5.0, fasting is 97, triglycerides are under 200, ldl is a little high and hdl is low, but overall is fine.

 

How are your reductions/rate going down on valium? Anything that helps?

 

[[Lo...]]

It is technically not recommended here, but I do take Valerian Root, Passion Flower, Aswhagandha, Celery Seed Extract, Astragalus root, chamomile tea, lemon balm tea, etc. I don't take it all at the same time of course. My doctor has Rx'ed some Vistaril, so I take a 1/4 pill of Vistaril when I am awful.

 

BTW, there is an Alpha Lipoic Acid supplement that helps with improving glucose tolerance in cells. Wish I'd known about it much sooner. That one does not interfere with GABA in any way

 

 

[[Lo...]]

Again-i cant stress enough how much for me personally, no way would i kick benzos in a strange regimented atmosphere such as a rehab facility. What makes you think it will be any easier vs. the comfort of your own home? You are still gonna be suffering withdrawal. You will simply be suffering in a strange atmosphere. Good luck!

 

This is completely spot on. One of the main symptoms of benzo withdrawal will be fear to the nth degree. The feelings of fear and utter insanity along with a host of horrible physical symptoms. I could not imagine doing that in an unknown environment either. Plus, to anyone mightily struggling to get off of benzos, people detoxing from alcohol and opiates in the rehab will look like superheros. They may even be able to enjoy activities that a benzo withdrawer will be too sick to participate in.

[[Wi...]]

Fish

Ok. Ive read your history a bit more. Im curious as to why you are on testosterone at 32 years old? Im assuming its for body building purposes? Im on T cypionate myself and i can guarantee it severly ramps up my wd symptoms. I completely stopped injecting T for two years until my symptoms became manageable. Also-why/when did you get on mirtazipine? Was that to ease wd? That could at least be partially the cause of your weight gain-more so then the valium. I doubt valium is the culprit because you arent even feeling the effects of the valium at this juncture 18 months later. The bottom line is you are on such a low dose of valium that you could easily drop 1mg a week and be done with it. Youve already tapered and held for 18 months so there is a good chance once you finish the taper  you could quite possibly have a very speedy recovering...once you are completely off. You are literally “only” in tolerance wd because you havent gotten completely off yet. Your brain wont begin to heal completely until you are off. And again-the T could very well be ramping of your symptoms. It did mine- big time, along with other people ive read about. Also-clonidine seemed to help my symptoms a bit which is a bp medication if you can score a prescription. Clonidine has a definite anxiolitic effect very similar to benzos without disturbing gaba. The key is actually doing enough of it while monitoring your blood pressure. Its an outdated med yet maybe you could convince your md to scribe. Have you tried cutting down to 7.0? If not, that is what you need to do, like... yesterday. Im assuming thats why you are considering rehab because they will forcefully cut your dose.....correct?-and you will be getting away so your wife/family neednt witness their favorite son suffering such. Instead of 7.5 why not try 7.0?.......today or tommorow.  Good luck & please consider all ive said.

[[fi...]]

The shit hit the fan today.

I tried dropping from 7.4, 7.25, to 7.0 two days ago and got smacked hard with terrible physical symptoms.

All I can do is grab my head and rock and cry in bed.

This is just so horrible and I don't see a way out.

I'll have to stay or go up to 7.25 either way is hell.

 

I got put onto testosterone because we were checking blood results like crazy for 6 months trying to figure out if something was wrong, total test came back at low 200s then again at 190, and for me, that's so low. Two years ago at physical it was high 700s. Prolactin level isn't high enough to be any tumor. So I tried injections in all different formats to little relief actually got worse histamine responses by the oil, then compounded cream to little more relief, none of it was a miracle which is what I was hoping for. I stayed on a low dose to get me out of heart attack range of too low. No idea my levels now since i got really ill a couple of months ago.

 

Nothing works how it should with me on any drug.

 

 

[[Lo...]]

That is a lot of suffering. Are you at 7mg or back at 7.4mg, fish?

[[ma...]]

you are on Ativan, Valium, Gabapentin and Buspar...  no wonder you can't get out of bed. 

 

That sounds like a lot of the same meds.  I'm new here so pay no attention to me ..but yikes.. get a second opinion please. 

 

I can't take Buspar-it knocks me out.. it is for anxiety. 

 

My heart goes out to you fishy... get another opinion on all those drugs. 

[[fi...]]

Valium 7.25 mg. Remeron 5mg. No CBD. No Ativan. No Buspar. No Gabapentin.

I read the phoenix  rising forum about some members that quickly sank on valium, lost energy and muscle fast, bed bound, health declined rapidly, so I know I'm not alone.