If you are suffering from Insomnia, please read

[[MT...]]

Hi Runnergirl.

 

Yes, it gets better. If you were on the drugs for a while 9 mos. off benzos and 2 off amitriptyline is still early. I think the first year is the hardest and it's hard to keep believing.

 

I was off benzos 20 months when I jumped from amit. It was difficult but not as bad as benzos. I think the issue was more that for over 28 years I'd never slept without some medication (usually numerous) so I had to be willing to totally lose the ability to sleep in order to regain the ability to sleep. I had many months of just minutes at a time sleep and that feeling you describe of it not feeling like sleep. Still, every morning, first thing, I gave thanks for every moment of sleep and rest so that I was acknowledging to my mind that something was happening.

 

Now my sleep is creeping towards 7 hours most nights. I still have some bad nights here and there and my sleep is lighter than I'd like. Some of that is from having CFS and an irritable, bitchy bladder, not all wd. I just about lost hope that I'd ever sleep again. It was easy to believe my brain was permanently damaged or that there was some lesion in my brain. Now nights are my *favorite* time of the day and I can go to bed with the confidence that at some point I'll at least get some sleep. You'll get there. I understand the anxiety and this degree of insomnia totally sucks. One day this will be in your rear view mirror. Allow yourself to believe in that and be patient with yourself.

 

MT

 

[[wa...]]

OMG - MT -- you are approaching 7 hours most nights.  I am so, so glad to hear this!  WBB

[[al...]]

Hi MtFAn,

 

I am just wondering how you are doing.....

 

I am having horrific insomnia and horrible anxiety...I feel wired all of the time...I am lucky to get 3 hours of sleep, but it is not sleep,,,,it doesn't feel like I am sleeping....what does everyone do when they cannot sleep.....I just lay there and hope that I go out...and try to stay calm...

 

I have been off Klonopin for 9 months now .......I was still on Amitriptyline (because I didn't think tapering off both would be good),  I since have tapered off Amitriptyline and have been off for 2 months now.  Do you know anything about withdrawal from the Amitriptyline?  Is it about the same as Benzo withdrawal?  I feel so lost with no information about all of this crap.....I know you were on a lot of stuff and are you getting a little better?  I just need hope. 

 

Thanks MtFan.

 

Hi Runnergirl,,

Of course we all go to bed in hopes of falling asleep and can get pretty frustrated when we don't. I would suggest going to bed assuming that sleep won't come and focus on the badly needed rest that you will be getting while staying in bed instead. More than likely a lot of light sleep that you might not even be aware off will sneak in to help offset your sleep debt. It may not be much that is what gets us through this. 

[[St...]]

What an excellent explanation. Very accurate. Thank you and thumbs up!

[Guest [Kp...]]

What an excellent explanation. Very accurate. Thank you and thumbs up!

 

Indeed! Best advice I have seen so far. Another favourite of mine was -- meditate in bed.

[[al...]]

What an excellent explanation. Very accurate. Thank you and thumbs up!

 

Indeed! Best advice I have seen so far. Another favourite of mine was -- meditate in bed.

 

I'm not sure how true it is but on several occasions I have heard about studies showing that 30 minutes of meditation can have the restorative properties of up to 3 hours of sleep (at least in terms of mental well being).

[[MT...]]

OMG - MT -- you are approaching 7 hours most nights.  I am so, so glad to hear this!  WBB

 

Thanks, Wanna. Your support during all of this has meant a lot. I hope you're getting some better nights!

[Guest [Kp...]]

 

I'm not sure how true it is but on several occasions I have heard about studies showing that 30 minutes of meditation can have the restorative properties of up to 3 hours of sleep (at least in terms of mental well being).

Yes, even I have read about this. Apparently we are able to observe sleep waves in the brain using MRI, I think, to reach this conclusion. The activity of various areas of brain, like those involved for self-reference (creating I), pain, beauty, all get affected in mindful meditation. So I think meditation is a very powerful hack into the brain.

[[St...]]

 

Great post and sadly so true. I took remeron for sleep for about a year. I have been off it for about four months and am now in my second withdrawal. Not much fun and remeron withdrawal has it's unique agenda.

 

How did you get off remeron? I'm going to tackle that one when I get off the benzos. I know I have to take something for sleep during the taper because my body just won't allow it and I'm afraid it would be even more unhealthy if I went days and days with no sleep. It also helps with my appetite so that's nice. I slept 1 night in 8 days but that was after reaching restoril tolerance. Did you have to taper the remeron?

[Guest [Kp...]]

Hey Stacey,

 

You won't have problems getting of mirtazapine. I know we like to take it seriously because nobody likes insomnia. But I had thought I'd get worse insomnia when I tapered librium... but that did not happen. So now I am not going to work myself into a frenzy for my mirt taper.

 

So if you never had a sleep disorder before starting anything, then I do not think you will have a problem. But if you had a sleep disorder, then you might have a problem... But I doubt even that you know. Actually search for the success story of one "theway” (keyword to search member name). Read his experience of letting patience restore the circadian whatever rhythm.

 

All said, very few people has trouble coming off mirtazapine. But unfortunately, I think they all started it in acute to be able to sleep. None used it as an AD. Except member Fairport123. Message her. She is about healed and might have started her mirt taper. She is a nice girl... she will write back with alacrity.

 

If I were you, I would just cut and hold over two months (speed subject to symptoms)

[[br...]]

Kpin. Respectfully your statement that very few people have trouble coming of remeron simply is not true . Look at the very active remeron support board and you will see that many people have had major withdrawal symptoms even after long tapers from low doses.

If you came of this drug easily and with few side effects I am happy for you , but please do not make huge thoughtless statements when advising others . If you have yet to taper remeron I would strongly advise you to say nothing more .

 

Stacey.  A slow taper of the remeron will help lessen the possibility of unpleasant symptoms. The remeron support board will give you reassurance and help. Any A.D. has to be tapered just as carefully as a benzo and remeron can be a vicious one to get off.

[[St...]]

Kpin. Respectfully your statement that very few people have trouble coming of remeron simply is not true . Look at the very active remeron support board and you will see that many people have had major withdrawal symptoms even after long tapers from low doses.

If you came of this drug easily and with few side effects I am happy for you , but please do not make huge thoughtless statements when advising others . If you have yet to taper remeron I would strongly advise you to say nothing more .

 

Stacey.  A slow taper of the remeron will help lessen the possibility of unpleasant symptoms. The remeron support board will give you reassurance and help. Any A.D. has to be tapered just as carefully as a benzo and remeron can be a vicious one to get off.

 

Maybe I should just updose the klonopine a little then and not take the mirtazapine?  I've only been on it for two weeks. I'm not even kidding..I would probably go weeks with no sleep if I didn't take something until my brain heals.

[[br...]]

Stacey , If you can get through this without taking remeron / mirt  I would. Taking any A.D. even at a low dose sets you up for another taper and possible side effects.  Insomnia can be brutal , but eventually the body will learn to sleep on it's own. The best thing is to stay as med free as possible and develop some good coping skills.

[[Th...]]

Stacey,

 

If you have only been on the Mirt for 2 weeks, you could get off without a taper.  You might experience some WD and sleep issues?, but 2 weeks is fine for even jumping off of Benzos for most people.  I would ditch the Mirt and just updose the K-pin to the lowest amount that gives you some sleep and then do a slow taper.  I was on Mirt for 30 days and jumped CT...I don't really know if it did anything as I was also on 2 Benzos and CT'ed them too.  So my WD could have been the Benzos and the Mirt?

 

If you were on longer than 2 weeks, I would agree with BraveRabbit and say do a slooooowwww taper.  But I think you will be OK?

 

Good luck!

[[St...]]

I'll try that tonight and I'm extremely scared of how long I'll go without sleep when this taper is done. I am worried about how this is going to effect my brain and my appearance. I'm not being vain, but it is an issue. I sometimes feel like I can't make it through this.

[[Th...]]

I'll try that tonight and I'm extremely scared of how long I'll go without sleep when this taper is done. I am worried about how this is going to effect my brain and my appearance. I'm not being vain, but it is an issue. I sometimes feel like I can't make it through this.

 

When I jumped cold turkey I was awake for 4 days straight...no perceived sleep...then I got some light sleep the next night, but it was about an hour.  Later, I went into a pattern where I would get an hour or two and then no sleep the next night.  I also had about 10 - 12 strings of 3 and sometimes 4 nights in a row of no perceived sleep over an 8 month period.  I did have some decent nights mixed in and some where I got 8 hours of broken sleep.  It was very up and down.  Your body is "wired" from the Benzos so not sleeping for 3 days doesn't really make you tired at first.  Later on the sleepiness comes back.  Other people on this forum had similar experiences. 

 

You will make it through this.  As I said before, the lack of sleep will not kill you, your body will get what it needs before that can happen.  Your brain will be fine.  Your appearance should be fine. You might get some dark circles or bags under your eyes?  Lack of sleep  really did not affect my appearance.

 

You are a lot stronger than you believe right now.  You can do this.  You won't die and you probably won't even get sick.  Our bodies are amazing.  You will find that you can function very well on very little sleep over longer periods of time.  Just be positive and believe! 

[[Ti...]]

Hi Runnergirl.

 

Yes, it gets better. If you were on the drugs for a while 9 mos. off benzos and 2 off amitriptyline is still early. I think the first year is the hardest and it's hard to keep believing.

 

I was off benzos 20 months when I jumped from amit. It was difficult but not as bad as benzos. I think the issue was more that for over 28 years I'd never slept without some medication (usually numerous) so I had to be willing to totally lose the ability to sleep in order to regain the ability to sleep. I had many months of just minutes at a time sleep and that feeling you describe of it not feeling like sleep. Still, every morning, first thing, I gave thanks for every moment of sleep and rest so that I was acknowledging to my mind that something was happening.

 

Now my sleep is creeping towards 7 hours most nights. I still have some bad nights here and there and my sleep is lighter than I'd like. Some of that is from having CFS and an irritable, bitchy bladder, not all wd. I just about lost hope that I'd ever sleep again. It was easy to believe my brain was permanently damaged or that there was some lesion in my brain. Now nights are my *favorite* time of the day and I can go to bed with the confidence that at some point I'll at least get some sleep. You'll get there. I understand the anxiety and this degree of insomnia totally sucks. One day this will be in your rear view mirror. Allow yourself to believe in that and be patient with yourself.

 

MT

 

MT,

Many thanks for the hope that you spread to those of us still suffering. I am so thankful for you, and your loving care. Your words are so wise, and help me to be willing to believe i will heal, too. My heartfelt congratulations for your health and sleep.  Kudos for sticking to your healing program. You’ve lived through WD a lot longer than my measly 4 1/2 months!

Insomnia, as ThEwAy2 likes to say, is the worst sx. It plays with your thoughts and emotions, and can sap your strength and weight. I’m thankful for the good days, and windows ( I slept my normal 7-8 every day for a week in late March while on vacation- dreamy!) Now it’s back to an every other night sleep regimen. Recent stress and a surgery have not helped. I know to say lots of prayers, and believe that it will pass.

Tigereye

 

 

ThEwAy2, you are a godsend to stay on this site to encourage and guide.

I trust your advice and am staying clean of all drugs, plus eating a nutritious diet. Trying to stay positive is easy some days but brutally hard on others. I ask myself sometimes how long can I go on like this? I don’t mean to sound dramatic- or suicidal . Just honest questions. I promise to be a blessing to others if ( when!) I get better.

TE

[[Th...]]

Tigereye,

 

There is no "if" but only when you get better.  Because I am certain you will heal and get your sleep back.  The proof is the week of vacation of 7-8 hour nights.  If that happened before it will happen again.  Also, the every other night thing is pretty common for awhile.  I did that for months.  But slowly I started getting 2 nights in a row of sleep, then 3 once in awhile until I started getting some sleep every night.  The zero hours ended and I had a nice stretch of 10 months without any zero nights!  But, please just expect it to be UP and DOWN for some time.  You will do well for days or weeks and even a month or two, only to go back to being hit with some poor stretches of sleep or maybe even the every other night pattern?  At 18 months off I got hit by a month long wave.  I had 4 zero nights and about 10 or 12  2 or 3 hour nights.  I was starting to freak out a bit, but some other buddies reassured me that this sort of thing can happen and it would even out and pass.  It did and I have slept pretty well for almost 2 months straight now! 

 

You will get better.  I promise you will!

[Guest [Le...]]

Kpin. Respectfully your statement that very few people have trouble coming of remeron simply is not true . Look at the very active remeron support board and you will see that many people have had major withdrawal symptoms even after long tapers from low doses.

If you came of this drug easily and with few side effects I am happy for you , but please do not make huge thoughtless statements when advising others . If you have yet to taper remeron I would strongly advise you to say nothing more .

 

Stacey.  A slow taper of the remeron will help lessen the possibility of unpleasant symptoms. The remeron support board will give you reassurance and help. Any A.D. has to be tapered just as carefully as a benzo and remeron can be a vicious one to get off.

 

Kpin, please don’t make anymore sweeping statements based on what you believe should happen – many members do have a difficult time for various unknown reasons, while others may not.

 

StaceyY, as Rabbit suggested, it might be a good idea to also visit the following board having numerous members who have actually gone through the process, or who are doing so now – and certainly, some of the suggestions posted here on this thread are good ones as well.

 

Here’s a link to the support board Rabbit mentioned.

 

  Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group

[[St...]]

Thanks. I guess I'll updose my klonopine tonight a little and not use the mirt. Only been on it two weeks.

[Guest [Kp...]]

Thanks. I guess I'll updose my klonopine tonight a little and not use the mirt. Only been on it two weeks.

 

How much rem are you taking? You've been on both short term. I can understand xanax but diid they give you rem for sleep issues when xanax stopped working?

 

Personally I find rem lesser of the evil. Because benzo hurt me bad and too often. The trouble with benzos is that they become the instigator of what they are supposed to treat and you don't realize this and your doctor does not know this. So I don't know how increasing benzo might help in such cases. Rem is much more predictable (people will tell you rem is more effective for sleep at lower dose blah blah but those who know about rats really haven't much clue about humans, lol).

 

God luck! You are in both for not too long. Walk away when it is probably easier to do so.

[[Sh...]]

Bump

[[Bl...]]

Thanks. I guess I'll updose my klonopine tonight a little and not use the mirt. Only been on it two weeks.

The trouble with benzos is that they become the instigator of what they are supposed to treat and you don't realize this and your doctor does not know this.

 

This ^^^^ this is so important to know and understand right here . I even had  benzo wise dr say the same thing .

[[Sh...]]

Indeed. U think u have insomnia now? Well get a load of this insomnia! Unbelievable that a drug that is spose to help these maladies can make them 10 times worse

[[pi...]]

Just to let everyone know that they WILL SLEEP AGAIN. I sleep every night soundly now, some rough patches here and there and not perfect but I dont consider myself to have insomnia anymore. I SLEEP!. and I was a long case, took 19 months for me to turn a corner. Have hope and hang in there.