severe shaking all over body and internal shaking and vibration/nausea

[[pe...]]

Colin,

I had planned to water titrate once I got to 0.5 mg of Klonopin which is where I am now....I have a blender and the cylinder that is 250 ml...I won't be able to do anything for awhile if I can even get out of this....if the valium were going to help wouldn't I have noticed a reduction in symptoms or felt any relief when I took 5 mg of it with my Klonopin dose? I felt nothing different at all....can you post a schedule using 0.5 mg and maybe 125 ml of water and have it decrease by no more thna 10% every 14-21 days...I am so sick...Thanks, Pebbles

[[Co...]]

Hi Pebbles,

 

I'll post up a table for you sometime tomorrow.

 

For how long did you take the 5mg of Valium?

[[ja...]]

Pebbles-I think what Colin and Therese are presenting might really help you out.  I was literally toxic on ativan and because you reinstated and never really stabilized, you may be experiencing some toxicity as well.  This is quite uncommon though.  But the question Colin asked is really pertinent...how many times did you take the valium???  If you only took it once, it would not make a difference.  I think there is a great possiblity that you could stabilize with this plan...at least see how it goes...it certainly will not make things worse, I wouldn't think.  Just don't make any more cuts without talking to Colin first.  Janus

 

Is it possible that she could also supplement with what she just previously cut with an additional amount of valium in addition to the third that  you are mentioning ?  That way she could reinstate her last cut (which was obviously too soon to cut) but not with clono. and valium instead.  She needs to slow way down at this point and restabilize and I am wondering if this is possible with the clono.  I like your idea of testing the waters.  I think she will find a lot of relief this way, maybe not for a few days, but a lot sooner than if she continues on this course. 

 

According to the Ashton Manual 20 mg. of valium equal 1 mg. of klon.  Ashton herself titrated people in a stepwise fashion, substituting diazepam for the ativan until she found the dose that  alleviated their anxiety.  Upon presentation all these people while on ativan had very high levels of anxiety.  She did a very extensive study which I will someday explain better, but she also did the same thing, in a less formal way, with klon. and xanex.  This is how she arrived at her equivalency tables. 

[[pe...]]

Colin,

 

I have taken the valium a few times...when I tried to take it with the Klonopin it did nothing....when I tried to take it as one of my doses instead of the Klonopin...meaning right when I started taking the Klonopin I switched out some of my doses for the valium instead and felt worse so i just stuck with the Klonopin.  I am very depressed and do not want to get worse with the valium or have it mess my stomach up worse than it already is...Thanks for your help.  Pebbles

[[ja...]]

What do you mean by a "few times".....this is very important... how long exactly did you take the valium???  A few days does not make any difference with the valium.  Janus

[[pe...]]

Back when I was first started on the Klonopin I took the valium for a few days and I felt worse on it so I went back to the Klonopin...since then I have taken 1 or 2 tablets with my Klonopin on really bad days to see if it would help with the symptoms at all or if I would be able to notice that I had taken an extra benzo dose and I didn't notice anything.  I went to have a procedure done not too long ago and they gave me double doses of versed and demerol and could not get me out....said it was because I was so tolerant to the benzos...so i suspect I would need a pretty high dose of Valium to get stable as the 1.5 mg of Klonopin didn't do it and that was the equivalent of 30 mg of valium...Thanks for all of your help.  Pebbles

[[bo...]]

Hi Pebbles

No one will force you to do something you dont want to do, if you hate Valium, you hate it. Your having great difficulty and there are a few things to try, titrating, staying on a dose for a longer period , switching to a longer lasting benzo, or toughing out the symptoms and I'm sure many other options. These are just suggestions up to you to decide whether there worthy of trying.

Take Care

Bobers

[[pe...]]

Thanks...I appreciate it....I would like to water titrate but I'm sure it will be a tough ride...Pebbles

[[ge...]]

Hi,

 

I am internal and external tremors all the time, and the nausea is sometimes so bad on the Valium I have to force feed myself like I'm force feeding my poor sick cat who just came home from the vet. It's amazing how many different symptoms I get from time to time. Yesterday, my breasts were really hurting and today the pain is bearable. Go figure.

 

Love,

Genie

[[Sa...]]

Hi,

 

I am internal and external tremors all the time, and the nausea is sometimes so bad on the Valium I have to force feed myself like I'm force feeding my poor sick cat who just came home from the vet. It's amazing how many different symptoms I get from time to time. Yesterday, my breasts were really hurting and today the pain is bearable. Go figure.

 

Love,

Genie

 

Genie,

 

I have had the internal tremors throughout my taper but they don't seem to want to let up down here on the lower doses.  They are the worst!

 

I'm glad the breast pain subsiding a bit.

 

Have a good weekend!

 

Sandy

[[ge...]]

Hi, Everybody,

 

Boy, did I make a funny typo - lol! I wrote by mistake that "I am internal tremors and shaking" instead of "I have internal tremors and shaking." It's almost as though subconsciously I was trying to OWN my tremors and shaking. Yikes! That's the last thing I wanted to convey to the group. It's like saying my headaches are killing me. If you make statements like that, or if you IDENTIFY with your symptoms, this can become a self-fulfilling prophecy! Sorry about the silly typo. I hope some of you got a laugh out of it!

 

Love,

Genie

[[da...]]

I have been taking for some time a Beta-blocker called Propranolol, it is a generic for Inderal.I’m prescribed it for hypertension but it is also used to help anxiety. I was just reading the Ashton manual and seen if used during Benzo withdrawal it can control muscle tremors. I’m having a hard time trying to taper but one of the withdrawl symptoms I don't have is muscle tremors. This is a quote from the Ashton Manual........

 

“ Beta-blockers. In a few cases, severe palpitations, muscle tremors or motor jerks develop during benzodiazepine withdrawal and hinder progress. These symptoms can be controlled or ameliorated by beta-blocking drugs such as propranolol (Inderal). Drugs of this type inhibit the effects of excess epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenaline and noradrenaline) released by an overactive sympathetic nervous system. They slow the heart and prevent excess muscle activity. Although they have little effect on psychological symptoms, they can cut the vicious circle in which palpitations or tremor create anxiety which leads to yet more palpitations. Some people in benzodiazepine withdrawal take small doses of these drugs (10-20mg Inderal three times daily) regularly, while others reserve them to take only if the physical symptoms of a panic attack seem uncontrollable. They are not a cure, but can sometimes help people through a difficult situation”

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha03.htm#21

 

[[pe...]]

Thank you for the info...Pebbles

[[yo...]]

Hi one and all

 

The inner vibrations is one of the more unsettling symptoms for sure but also often one of the earliest to go away. This I base on my own experience and what I know of others.

 

As to the beta blockers, I took one now and then as needed for the first few months off the drugs, to control persistent heart palpitations. I had no problems with them as they act in a very different way than benzos. I haven`t had to take one in well over a year now. It seems an as needed regime with betas would be better than daily, if your doctor approves it. God bless and all keep the faith.

[[pe...]]

I am having the severe internal and external tremors and yet when they did a urine check recently my Epinephrine and Norepinephrine levels were within a normal range and my blood pressure has been low...what else could cause this if it is not excess adrenaline...also bad muscle twitching, etc...scared...Pebbles

[[Sa...]]

I am having the severe internal and external tremors and yet when they did a urine check recently my Epinephrine and Norepinephrine levels were within a normal range and my blood pressure has been low...what else could cause this if it is not excess adrenaline...also bad muscle twitching, etc...scared...Pebbles

 

Pebbles,

 

It sounds like classic w/d symptoms to me.  But if you are worried it can't hurt to get things checked out by a doctor.

 

Sandy

[[Co...]]

These are pretty common withdrawal effects - the cause is upset to neurology. It will settle down again - you may even feel fine tomorrow. As I always write though, do have anything you are concerned about checked out though - even if it is just to put your mind at rest.

[[Su...]]

Pebbles,

 

How are you tapering?  I mean, are you tapering at a rate greater than 10% or have you just made a cut?  When I taper at a reasonable rate, I don't get those withdrawal symptoms, but when I try to go down faster than 10% and to withdraw from 2 meds at the same time, all hell breaks loose.

 

Do you have these symptoms every day, all day, or just when due for your next dose?

[[pe...]]

No...I have these symptoms (and many others) all day and night everyday...they do not go away...I am homebound and on disability.....I have had a c/t and then tapered quickly from the Klonopin...I am trying to get compounding capsules and plan to taper the equivalent of 1 mg of valium every 2 weeks....I am currently at .4375 of Klonopin which is about 81/2 mg of valium.  I started from 1.5 mg  of Klonopin and began cutting in July so really I cut the equivalent of 20 mg of valium in about 14 weeks...per my doc....I was never stable on the full dose of Klonopin...I had a severe c/t in may and was put on Klonopin about 3 to 4 weeks after the c/t...the reinstatement was not successful as the beast had already been unleashed which has made this withdrawal so much harder...I was also put on about 9 or 10 different meds from January to Mid March and then tapered from Remeron with my lost dose being 9-1.  I have always had symptoms and have been very sick for months...

[[pe...]]

Also...How do you stay within 10%...even with valium as you go below 10 mg the cuts don't typically stay at 10%...do they??  Pebbles

[[Co...]]

Also...How do you stay within 10%...even with valium as you go below 10 mg the cuts don't typically stay at 10%...do they??  Pebbles

 

Hi Pebbles,

 

That's correct. Even if titration used to make tiny cuts, eventually you will have to make cuts larger then 10% of your dose at the time. However, at low doses our brain chemistry has largely taken over control of managing our GABA receptors, so cuts (in percentage terms) can rise. If this wasn't the case, we could never fully taper off, as we'd only be reducing by part of our last dose. I think that at about 2-4mg of Valium, you can stop thinking about cuts in terms of 10%. Cuts of about a quarter of pill is fine for most, or if you are particularly sensitive, titration will enable you to achieve smaller cuts.

[[pe...]]

Thanks Colin...I don't think my brain has managed anything yet...I am in severe withdrawal very badly....I don;t sleep at night and have electric zaps and tingling all through my body about every 20 mins at night and racing thoughts and severe physical symptoms all the time everyday...it is horrid...

[[Co...]]

Hi Pebbles,

 

Can you fill your signature so that we can easily follow your progress: Profile >> under Modify Profile, click Forum Profile Information >> fill in the Signature box >> click Change Profile at the bottom.

 

You might need top slow your taper a little. I'll comment further after you have added a signature.

[[Su...]]

Pebbles,

 

Are you on any other meds but the Klonipin?  It sounds as if you might need to stay at a regular dose for a long time before trying to taper any more to repair the damage of c/ting and tapering at the equivalent of 20 mg of valium in 14 weeks.  I am starting to have your problems and I know that it is because of too fast of tapering (prior to that all I had was insomnia and increased anxiety).  If I were you, I would stabilize on some dosage (even if you have to stay there for a couple of months) before cutting again.  I've just learned that if I go too fast, I have to stay for too long a period before I cut again (thus, negating all of my progress). 

 

Hope you start to feel better real soon.

[[da...]]

I know they are promoting Requip and another medication for Restless Leg Syndrome. Both of these are long time medications used for Parkinson's disease. Has anybody ever talked to his or her doctor about using a medication like requip to ease this symptom?

Dave