New to this benzo mess

[[Da...]]

Thats awesome, I got a can of mixed nuts I will definitely keep by my bed tonight. Good catch on the info, maybe I need to look at those forums more closely haha, Thanks, ill keep you posted on how that works for me

[[su...]]

Hello want2bfree,

 

Nice to see you again. Welcome back. I have been thinking of you. Hey, way to go on your first cut. I see you went from 1.5mg of Klonopin to 1.375mg that is a 9% cut. We learn a great deal from our first cut. We learn what withdrawal symptoms we may experience and the intensity. I see you are having many of the most common withdrawal symptoms. Not to worry. I have many symptoms too. I am in the process of taper as you may recall. I was on 5mg of Klonopin and am currently at 0.625mg.

 

You are taking the Klonopin 4 times per day I see. So, you cut .125mg (1/4th of a 0.5mg tablet) from the 1.5mg total. So, you are taking .375mg 3 times per day and a .25mg for one of the doses. That is great. Hey, I have learned over time that I need to hold no shorter than 2 weeks for my body to get use to the new lower dose. As we cut and allow our body to get use to the new lower dose that gives our body time to adjust. I have found that with each dose reduction my body gets use to the new lower dose and I get a few lower withdrawal symptom days. I have found that to be helpful before I cut again.

 

The best way to reduce the amount and intensity of symptoms is to do a slow taper. It took our bodies time to get use to the Klonopin and it will take time for our body to get use to not having it. You are doing great finding some things that are helpful. Like eating protein, light exercise, rest, etc. I think you are doing great. How are you doing today?

 

We are here for you,

Summer

[[wa...]]

Hi Summer,

 

Yes, I did go from 1.5 mg to 1.375 mg, but I'm taking it 3 times a day, not 4 anymore (that 4th pill just dropped out within the first 2 or 3 days after I started sleeping through the night).  I'm taking 0.5 in the morning (around 9 or so), 0.375 (3/4 of a 0.5 mg pill) at about 4 in the afternoon, then 0.5 at night.  It's only the middle dose I made the recent .125 cut in. 

 

I'm not sure how soon I should make my next cut, or on what dose--I'm thinking of holding steady at this for a few days, then trying to take out another .125.  If I do that, not sure which of the doses I should cut it out of.  Not sure if my goal should be to eliminate my middle pill first, or should I even out the tapering over the doses (I think the latter makes more sense, though that's more pill splitting).  I've been steadily taking benzos for only a month, so I don't want to be on them longer than I have to, but I also don't want my taper to go too fast.  I'm still thinking on that. 

 

I am actually doing pretty well today--I ate a light snack of cottage cheese and fruit before I went to sleep, and I kept some nuts by the bed, and actually ate a little bit in the night when I woke up to use the restroom, and also drank a small cup of milk.  Also made sure to drink water if I felt thirsty, even if that would make me get up again.  This eating and drinking helped ENORMOUSLY with morning anxiety (felt almost none), so I will do that again.  Had some strange dreams, but at least they were more active than totally tranqed-out sleep, so I am getting some REM activity I guess. 

 

I got out to the grocery store and post office with friends today (friend drove), was a touch nervous, but felt not too bad.  I felt happy to get a bunch of my month's shopping done.  It helped to get out and do normal things and to get my mind off the weird anxiety thoughts. 

[[su...]]

Hello Want2bfree,

 

Nice to hear from you. So, you are taking Klonopin 3 times per day. That is right I remember that. The 0.5mg was dropped due to sleeping through the night. That was great!

 

Hey, when I cut my Klonopin dose I would alternate cuts. After I had been cutting for a while, I looked at which dose helps me the most. For instance, it helps to have the K to sleep so I held onto that dose and cut the am and afternoon does. Alternating the cuts. Which dose helps you the most? The am or pm?

 

I have found that I hold no shorter than 2 weeks with K. This is all based on my experience. I found that my body would get use to the new lower dose and I get a few low withdrawal symptom days before I cut again. Are you having that experience? Where your body gets use to the new lower dose?

 

I am so happy to hear you are getting time to get out and keep your mind off of the symptoms. I think you are doing great.

 

Summer

[[wa...]]

Hi Summer,

 

Not sure which dose helps the most--I think the am dose might, but that night one has to last the longest (I'm not taking it right before bed, and I'm in bed longer than 8 hours).  So I guess I might try to cut the am dose next.  Well, this is the 3rd day of my tapering that middle dose, and I could feel it yesterday--I could feel the doomy feeling about an hour or so before my evening dose, and I was extremely antsy to take it.  Was icky.   I'll wait at least a few days and see if I get used to it before I cut some more, I think. 

 

I think I'll end up having to taper longer off this stuff than I was even on it in the first place.  I've felt withdrawals all along---first, from erractically/intermittently taking the Ativan last month, then from withdrawing cold turkey from Ativan, then from the Klonopin not quite satisfying the Ativan withdrawals, then from I think tapering out that one Klonopin pill in the middle of the night (though I do think I am used to that now), from interdose withdrawals all the time, and now from tapering.  And I seem to flush this stuff out of my system quickly (I do drink a fair amount of water) so it seems to last only 6 hours.  Yucky.  I don't think my body has been getting used to much.  

 

Thanks so much for your encouragement and advice, Summer.  I just want this to be over with soon. 

 

 

[[wa...]]

To everybody--do you all want to know something funny?  In my Clinical Chemistry class in 2006, we all had to give presentations on drugs of abuse, and we would pick a drug or class of drugs to our presentation on.  Guess what I picked?  Benzodiazepines.  I carefully researched the presentation and got an A and everything, knew about addiction/withdrawal and how bad it could be. 

 

In fact, that's why when my doctor recently recommended me to take the Ativan regularly, I was scared to take much of it, or too regularly, which is how I ended up intermittently/erratically daily dosing, landing in the ER, from cold turkey withdrawals, then getting stuck on Klonopin.  At the time when I did my presentation, I only took Ativan extremely rarely, like maybe 3 times a year, and from my research, it seemed that people only got addicted when taking it regularly for long periods.  So I never, ever thought this would happen to me.  When my doctor recently recommended that I take Ativan regularly to stave off agoraphobia coming back, she reassured me that this would be for such a short time (like 2-4 weeks), and that I wasn't the sort of person to get addicted because I *was* cautious about it.  So I'm now feeling like an idiot and rather like the victim of a very unfunny joke.

[[Da...]]

That is quite Ironic indeed, Dont feel so bad this is my second time to fall into the trap as well. Yes and I do feel foolish becuase I was more informed after the first tiem it happened, so I feel ya  Its alright though we will live and learn. Life is just rough for hard headed people like myself

[[uw...]]

I also suffer horrible morning anxiety. I can barely function. I want to stay in bed and hide all day. I often have panic attacks in the morning. The afternoon is bad for me as well. Evenings are my only break. But if I have to go anywhere, then I have anxiety at night as well.

 

This is really getting old!

 

I'm glad you've found some things to help you get through, and that you have such beautiful nature around you.

 

Do you test your blood sugar level? I've found that helps me a lot with my anxiety. Sometimes I feel that my blood sugar is low and start to have an anxiety attack, and I'll test it and it is a fine level. Other times, it really is low and I need to eat something. So it's good for me to know and be aware of my levels.

[[su...]]

Hello want2bfree,

 

I wanted to share some information with you. I think it is great you know so much about benzos. I have found that understanding what is happening and why to be helpful to me.

 

I will share some research regarding the question about duration of therapy and dependence.

 

“The Ashton Manual” by Heather Ashton, 2002

 

"The committee on Safety of Medicines and the Royal College of Psychiatrists in the UK concluded in various statements (1988 and 1992) that benzodiazepines are unsuitable for long-term use and that they should in general be prescribed for periods of 2-4 weeks only."

 

Another book is: "Benzo Blues, Overcoming Anxiety WITHOUT Tranquilizers" by Edward H. Drummond, M.D. 1997 (he is a Psychiatrist) 

"It is now widely accepted that benzodiazepines can cause a discontinuance syndrome with the usual therapeutic doses after only a few weeks of administration."

 

  "The severity of the symptoms varies tremendously in different individuals. Factors include the size of the daily dose, the length of time that a person has been on the drug, the speed with which the drug is metabolized in the body, and the rate at which the drug is tapered or stopped."

 

"Your Drug May Be Your Problem, How and Why to Stop Taking Psychiatric Medications”, Fully Revised and Updated Edition" by Peter Breggin, M.D. 2007 (a Psychiatrist)

 

"Tranquilizers can produce withdrawal reactions after only a few weeks of use. Studies of Xanax, for example, have indicated increased anxiety and panic upon withdrawal after only eight weeks."

 

 

“The resistance and denial have been documented in year’s past- notably, with respect to the benzodiazepines, the barbiturates, the stimulants, and even the opiates. Yet these very drugs are today considered “classically addictive.”

I am thinking of you,

Summer

 

[[su...]]

Hello want2befree,

 

I am sharing with you some of the routines that help me get through the day. I hope there is something in here that will spark some ideas for you.

 

I want to let you know that my routine is something I have been working on for a while.  I have learned what works for me and what does not. When I find something new I will add that to my routine. I think everyone who has a routine may have a different one, because it depends on what works for each of us.

 

My routine includes my eating routine (eating on a schedule). Along with a routine regarding:

1. stress reduction

2. exercise and walking schedule

3. shower and self-care

4. days I feel I can. I run some errands

5. days when I do not answer the phone or run errands

6. distractions and things that make me laugh (watching comedies. I also like watching calm movies)

7. if I am injured or in pain. I have routine for that as well, including self-nurturing

8. look for ways to reduce the demands on me ie: I just canceled may cell phone. I was not using it. So, now there is one less phone bill and one less phone to check if someone called.

 

I hope this is helpful. May be worth trying some routines for yourself and see what works. If something works. Then add it. If it doesn't then don't use that one. I have found that the routine in my life helps reduce anxiety and that in turn helps the wd sx’s be as low as possible. A routine is something I have control over. I do not have control over when a wd sx will hit, what sx it will be, and how difficult it will be. That is why I like having a routine I can count on.

 

I hope this helps.

Take Care,

Summer

 

[[su...]]

Hello want2befree,

 

I wanted to comment dry cutting and the tablets not being exact. I have found that the tablet difference over a 2 week period has not made much of a difference. In other words, it is not so important to be perfect with the cuts. It all adds up to a dose reduction in the end.

 

I am glad you found us. It is nice to see that you are so knowledgeable. I am impressed.

 

Take Care,

Summer

[[wa...]]

Summer,

 

Thanks for posting the helpful info.  You are so kind.  

 

Uwdawg (are you a Huskies fan?)--no, I don't have a glucometer or anything to test my blood sugar, I just go by what my body is telling me.  By the way, even if your blood sugar reads normal, you can still have a problem with getting it into your cells (that's why insulin-resistant diabetics get ravenously hungry at times).  I can feel shaky and icky and hungry and hypoglycemic with supposedly a normal reading--one time, in my phlebotomy class, we students were doing finger sticks and glucometer readings on each other, and I was in a state where I badly needed to eat something--shaky, icky, hungry, etc.  And my reading was a normal 114.  I'm not diabetic, but it runs in my family and I have borderline high fasting sugar at times.  So a sugar reading doesn't necessarily need to be "low" for a person to have hypoglycemic symptoms and to need to eat.  Anyway, I hope your anxiety gets better--I hope it gets better for all of us. 

[[su...]]

Hello Want2befree,

 

I am glad you received the information. I hope it was helpful.

 

How are you doing today? How did you sleep?

 

I am thinking of you,

Summer

[[wa...]]

Hi Summer,

 

My sleep wasn't too bad, thanks for asking.  I switched around different CPAP masks, including one a friend had loaned me, and ended up using my usual one anyway.  Woke to use restroom and eat/drink water.  Didn't feel too chokey or like my breathing was terrible, but I don't think I'm sleeping that deeply.  I stay in bed about 10 hours because of how much I get up.  Felt my usual morning anxious/dread feeling in pit of stomach around 6:30 a.m., ate something, drank water, and it was a bit better.  Hung out in bed snoozing and calming self until my medication time at 9:00 am.  Got up, made the bed, dressed, cried a bit, ate breakfast, went on about my day.  Mostly trying to distract myself from how much the stuff sucks.  Thanks for checking in with me.

[[su...]]

Hello Want2befree,

 

I understand the need for distractions. I need that too. I am glad you slept ok. That is great. I need lots of sleep too. Fatigue is my main wd sx.

 

I am thinking of you,

Summer

[[wa...]]

Hi all,

 

Still holding at 1.375 Klonopin, 3x per day.  Feeling a bit more normal the past three days (though still really up and down).  Morning anxiety and interdose withdrawal is less, I think.  I've had some times that I feel more like my normal self.  Still feel icky, though.  I'm going to wait another week before I cut any more, I think. 

[[Mi...]]

That's wonderful news that you are having some windows

 

 

[[su...]]

Hello Want2befree,

 

Nice to see you again! Hey, nice signature line. I see you cut on September 2nd. You are having some wd sx's yet they are manageable. I have found with Klonopin that I hold no shorter than 2 weeks. I see you are considering doing the same. I have found that my body gets use to the new lower dose and I get a few lower wd sx days. I still feel icky too. Just less so. Then I feel ready to take on another cut.

 

I am happy to see you are having sometimes where you are feeling normal. That is great.The next cut is up to you. If you feel ready to cut again then that would be fine. If you feel like you need more time that is fine too. Over time we learn what works for us.

 

How are you sleeping? Are you continuing to get some sleep?

 

Summer

[[wa...]]

Well, some of the w/d sx's are manageable/improved...some are still pretty horrid.  I think I'll hold at least 2 weeks to get more stable.  I think I'm getting the "windows" because I am getting more stable on this dose of Klonopin, and, I'm hoping some of the ickier stuff was withdrawal from the Ativan that hopefully I am putting behind me.  I'm glad I'm able to get sleep.  I wish I could just sleep and sleep this stuff away (like a flu or something), but I have to get up in the morning, or I know I'll feel worse.  Haven't liked my dreams that well lately, but at least I am getting a good full night's sleep--8-10 hours.

 

I've been getting out on my bike, a bit further from my place, getting a little braver w/the agoraphobia.  Today I overexerted myself or something, and had a vomiting attack, which is no fun.  After I have one of those, I have to be careful and eat easy to eat stuff (like broth, light soups, etc) to replace my blood sugar level, or I'll get very sick (and also anxious).  Anyway, thanks for the support and good wishes. 

[[Mi...]]

Well, some of the w/d sx's are manageable/improved...some are still pretty horrid.  I think I'll hold at least 2 weeks to get more stable.  I think I'm getting the "windows" because I am getting more stable on this dose of Klonopin, and, I'm hoping some of the ickier stuff was withdrawal from the Ativan that hopefully I am putting behind me.  I'm glad I'm able to get sleep.  I wish I could just sleep and sleep this stuff away (like a flu or something), but I have to get up in the morning, or I know I'll feel worse.  Haven't liked my dreams that well lately, but at least I am getting a good full night's sleep--8-10 hours.

So glad you are having windows and are able to sleep!

I've been getting out on my bike, a bit further from my place, getting a little braver w/the agoraphobia.  Today I overexerted myself or something, and had a vomiting attack, which is no fun.   

Also glad to see you are able to get out a little.  Sometimes it's easy to do too much when we are having windows, and then we pay for it later.  I call this the "play and pay" part of withdrawal.  This should lessen with time and should not be as bothersome, and your windows will increase with time as well.

Here's hoping today is one giant window for you!

 

[[wa...]]

   

Also glad to see you are able to get out a little.  Sometimes it's easy to do too much when we are having windows, and then we pay for it later.  I call this the "play and pay" part of withdrawal.  This should lessen with time and should not be as bothersome, and your windows will increase with time as well.

Here's hoping today is one giant window for you!

 

 

I'm so glad to hear there are more and more windows up ahead and that the "play and pay" thing gets better.  Do w/d symptoms themselves usually also become less bothersome further on during the taper?  I'm trying to do it slow and gradual so they won't be.  I keep worrying that the symptoms will be worse further ahead as I decrease more and more.  Thanks for the wish for today to be a big window for me...I hope it is.  My morning isn't that horrible today, and I had nice dreams and sleep last night. 

[[su...]]

Hello Want2befree,

 

I see you are waiting to hear from Missy. That is great. We are here for you. Hey, in the meantime, I wanted to let you know that each cut has been a little different for me.  I have found though that as my dose is getting lower some of the symptoms I use to have are not there, or at least do not show up as often.

 

I see you are getting a chance to do some biking.That is great. I have found that with exercise, it is important for me to take it slow and easy. This is different for everyone. Yet, I have had times where I exercised too much and ended up not feeling well after. If you are having trouble with nausea and vomiting, it may be worth paying attention to that and see if doing a little less might be helpful.

 

How are you feeling today?

 

Summer

[[Mi...]]

   

Also glad to see you are able to get out a little.  Sometimes it's easy to do too much when we are having windows, and then we pay for it later.  I call this the "play and pay" part of withdrawal.  This should lessen with time and should not be as bothersome, and your windows will increase with time as well.

Here's hoping today is one giant window for you!

 

 

I'm so glad to hear there are more and more windows up ahead and that the "play and pay" thing gets better.   Do w/d symptoms themselves usually also become less bothersome further on during the taper?  I'm trying to do it slow and gradual so they won't be.  I keep worrying that the symptoms will be worse further ahead as I decrease more and more.  Thanks for the wish for today to be a big window for me...I hope it is.  My morning isn't that horrible today, and I had nice dreams and sleep last night. 

 

So did my wish come true?

 

In answer to your question: because you are tapering pretty slowly, then hopefully your withdrawal symptoms will be less and less as you get lower in dosage.  This happens for many people, while some people experience more symptoms.  This could be because the lower one gets, the higher th percentage of a cut is.  This is why many people extend the time between cuts or make smaller cuts as they get lower.

 

You'll simply need to continue listening to your body and going at a rate that is comfortable.  The fact that you are able to exercise and get in some biking is a positive thing

 

How are you doing today?

 

 

[[wa...]]

Hi Missy,

 

My Sunday wasn't way too bad.  Maybe not one huge window, but was ok.  Went to the grocery store with a friend, though I kept my sunglasses on most of the time (even when I'm not light-sensitive, they do seem to cut down the stimuli and make me more relaxed).  Summer--you're right that I shouldn't overdo it on stuff.  I was trying to get out and be bold and ride around a lot, then wanted to go to a friend's house even though I was really too tired.  So that's probably how I got the nausea/vomiting and had to lay down.  Stuff is still up and down, my sleep, thankfully, is ok.  My favorite part of the day is sleeping at night--I hope I don't get insomnia when I taper more.  My head is still weird--dealing with derealization/depersonalization stuff  (which I tend to have a problems with anyway), and also emotional stuff that has seemed to come up.  It makes stuff really hard to deal with.  I feel extra sensitive lately. 

[[Pa...]]

Each day seems to bring something new and it's usually not good is it?  I think that was one of the hardest things for me, just when I'd get used to something, it would change and something just as nasty would crop up.  It sounds like you're trying to roll with it, but really what choice do you have?  The powerlessness of this process is so discouraging.