The Dizziness Group: For those who are floating, boating, falling or flying

[[La...]]

Hey Maggie,

I know it's an intense symptom, but if you can keep moving forward, you'll hopefully get to place where things settle down a bit. How far along are you in your taper? Are you microtapering, or following the Ashton Manual? Truthfully, I'm not sure if one is better than the other as far as symptoms go, but at least, you're moving in the right direction.

 

If you need a bit of walking support to stay mobile, by all means, pick up a cane, or walker, or whatever you need to get through it safely. Falling is NOT an option!

 

Take care!

[[La...]]

Hi Dizzy Buddies,

I recently posted a study on psych conditions, psych meds and dizziness in the Benzos in the News section, so you can check it out here if you're interested:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=226101.0 

[[Ma...]]

Good afternoon all,

 

Lapis, in answer to your question, I am dry cutting and weighing on a scale to ensure dosage regularity.  It seems to be working okay, but today seems to be a bad day after about 5 good days and I am on a hold schedule due to having to travel for work this past week.  The dizziness had been gone until this morning, not sure what triggered it, but I sure wish it would go away. 

 

Hoping for improvement soon.  I am still working, and go back to work tomorrow after being away from the office at meetings, which could be a source of stress for me, worrying about going back and having to deal with all the issues of being gone a week!

 

Hope everyone has a good week,

Maggie

[[La...]]

Hey Maggie,

It's great that you've been able to continue working! That's wonderful!

 

With regards to the dizziness, there's often no rhyme or reason as to why it's worse one day and better another. At least, that's what I've found. My level seems to change overnight. Yesterday was horrible, but today, I'm less dizzy. I'll likely be back in Dizzyville tomorrow.

 

Just keep going...keep putting one foot in front of the other and doing your taper. It sounds like you're well on your way. 

[[Da...]]

I'm currently reading a book called "Balance: A Dizzying Journey Through the Science of Our Most Delicate Sense", by Carol Svec, and so far, it's been a really interesting read. The chapter I just read is called "Altered States", and guess what it covers? Yup, the effect of alcohol and medication on balance. The first part of the chapter focuses on alcohol, and it even includes a discussion of GABA and glutamate. According to the author, there are two aspects of balance that are greatly affect by alcohol: sensory inputs and motor inputs. And sensory inputs include the vestibular (balance) and cochlear (hearing) aspects of the eighth cranial nerve. It all adds up to poor balance, poor hearing and an inability to walk and move properly.

 

The second part of the chapter looks at a number of other medications that can affect balance, including acetaminophen, anti-inflammatories (ibuprofen, diclofenac, naproxen, aspirin), antihistamines (Claritin, Sudafed, meclizine, diphenhydramine, etc.), Pepto-Bismol, NyQuil, Gas-X, benzodiazepines, ACE inhibitors, calcium channel blockers, diuretics, SSRIs (Prozac, Zoloft, Lexapro, Celexa, Paxil), and anticholinergics (scolpolamine).

 

In the discussion of SSRIs, the author notes that these meds can make people dizzy both while they're taking them AND when coming off them. She also mentions the many neurotransmitters that are involved in the "feedback loop between the hairs cells of the inner ear and cells that contribute to the vestibular ocular reflex...". SSRIs are referred to as "the most neurotransmitter-changing medications".

 

Other drugs listed as possibly causing dizziness are cholesterol-lowering drugs (simvastatin, atorvastatin), antifungals (amphotericin B, fluconazole), antipsychotics (chlorpromazine, clozapine, thioridzine), anti-seizure medications (gabapentin), opioids (hydrocodone, oxycodone) and Parkinson's medications (bromocriptine, levodopa/carbidopa).

 

And then she says "This is not a complete list. These are just the large categories of medications that cause dizziness in a fair number of people who use them. Virtually any drug can cause dizziness in some people."

 

The chapter ends with a warning to "be careful" when it comes to alcohol and medications.

 

Right. Thanks.

 

Nice summary, Lapis. I don't know if you've checked out that other book (Dizziness: Why you feel dizzy and what will help you feel better by Whitman and Baloh), but I've found it's not so great on the medication issue. There are cursory mentions of ototoxic meds, but they do not go into much detail and leave many known ototoxins  completely unmentioned. It may be a decent book if your dizziness is not medication induced, but I've got to give it a failing grade. A bit disturbing that specialists are not even aware of the vast array of meds that can induce dizziness, vertigo etc. Balance problems account for 5% of all adverse drug events, and I've read that is likely an underestimate.

[[La...]]

Hi Data_Guy,

I haven't read that other one, and I don't think I will. I'm probably going to read a bit of fiction, actually! I need a break or diversion from this stuff sometimes. Thanks for the info, though.

 

I'll continue to look at the abstracts on PubMed and see what's rolling in. If there's anything that's pertinent to us here, then I'll post it.

 

By the way, did that other book mention Mal de Debarquement? I think I remember seeing a reference to it in the description of the book. Anything there?

[[Da...]]

I need to read some fiction myself, I think. What did you want to know about Mal de Debarquement?

 

Things I thought were noteworthy:

- exact mechanism that causes it is unknown, "but experts believe it has something to do with how the brain adapts to motion" (this seems like a tautology, that is the borderline definition of the syndrome).

- Tests of inner ear function, both auditory and vestibular, are generally normal in patients with MdDS. Nothing abnormal in brain scans.

- Recent studies have found increased resting metabolic activity and abnormal connectivity between areas of the brain that process visual and vestibular signals

- There is convincing evidence of central nervous system dysfunction but no known treatment

- It is generally made better by being in motion, in contrast to other disorders of balance

 

 

[[La...]]

Yes, thanks. That looks like things I've read before in the literature -- especially the 2018 studies. Not so helpful for us, though. It just seems like so little is known.

[[Jo...]]

This sorta stinks. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3138949/

[Guest [mi...]]

Nice I found this thread!

I finished my taper of K in February after 10 months. Three days later, from nowhere,  I started to have dizziness/nausea mainly when I got up in the morning. It continued for about three weeks then diminished.

In May due to a bad supplement reaction ( L theanine) I reinstated to 1 mg. Yes, it was that bad that I had to do it! But immediately I began to reduce the dose and now I'm down to 0.650mg and feeling better. But now after reducing the dose I started to have dizziness again. It's not that bad during the day. actually I can do sports run my bike etc. It's just in the morning when I get up. I really hate this meds with all my heart! Although all my ordeal started after I took Cipro antibiotic and were the benzos that helped me to overcome some of the Cipro after effects. Talking about fighting evil with evil...

I guess a lot of you, it's a long thread, have experience a similar problem. Any comments on the issue will be appreciated

Regards!

Miguel

[[La...]]

This sorta stinks. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3138949/

 

Yes, but doctors should be warning their patients about ototoxicity. In one of my early hearing tests, ordered by the ENT (re: dizziness), the audiologist pulled out a big book on ototoxicity. All of the meds I was taking were listed in there! It was the first time I'd heard that word.

[[La...]]

Nice I found this thread!

I finished my taper of K in February after 10 months. Three days later, from nowhere,  I started to have dizziness/nausea mainly when I got up in the morning. It continued for about three weeks then diminished.

In May due to a bad supplement reaction ( L theanine) I reinstated to 1 mg. Yes, it was that bad that I had to do it! But immediately I began to reduce the dose and now I'm down to 0.650mg and feeling better. But now after reducing the dose I started to have dizziness again. It's not that bad during the day. actually I can do sports run my bike etc. It's just in the morning when I get up. I really hate this meds with all my heart! Although all my ordeal started after I took Cipro antibiotic and were the benzos that helped me to overcome some of the Cipro after effects. Talking about fighting evil with evil...

I guess a lot of you, it's a long thread, have experience a similar problem. Any comments on the issue will be appreciated

Regards!

Miguel

 

Hi Miguel,

Dizziness is a very common symptom with these meds, so lots of people around here get it at some point during their use of benzos or after withdrawing. I'm glad you can still do so many things, though. That's a big bonus. I'm really hoping your dizziness is short-lived. 

[[La...]]

Hi Dizzy Buddies,

How is everyone doing? I just wanted to share a link to a Success Story that was recently shared where there's a reference to dizziness and its resolution. Check out the bottom part of this page where Fp1984 has asked now-power about dizziness. Now-power responded earlier today here:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=226549.30 

[[Fp...]]

Although my dizziness / lightheadedness is not as severe as it was earlier in withdrawal (Im 9 .5 months off), I still experience it, especially in the mornings. Can anyone explain to me why my dizziness may be more pronounced in the morning and nearly nonexistent in the afternoon and evenings. I do feel that I am healing. Most of my other side effects are gone. The AM dizziness and lightheadedness, which last from about 7AM until noon is my last symptom that just keeps hanging on. As I said, it is improving, but at a slow snails pace! I hope everyone experiences healing soon!

Thanks,

Fp

[[La...]]

Hi Fp1984,

Well, it's fantastic news that you're getting better! Congratulations! As far as why you have that particular pattern, I think we'd only be able to make guesses. Probably the best thing you can do is work with the pattern that you have and take advantage of the times when you're less dizzy to be more active. I have days when I'm less dizzy, and on those days, I try to move around more. On the dizzier days, I just can't. But the more active we are, the better it is for the body, I'm sure.

 

 

[[Fp...]]

Thanks Lapis,

I guess the fact that we both have times where we're less dizzy is a sign that our brains and vestibular systems have the potential to get it right. I know some people talk about the fact that cortisil is higher in the mornings and can have an impact on side effects. Do you know if changes in cortisol levels has any impact on the vestibular system? Also, thanks for the advice. It is definitely much easier to be active when the dizziness is less. Ill definitely continue to be active during those times. Thanks for all you do with this board!

Fp

[[La...]]

Hey Fp,

I was going to mention the adrenal glands being active in the morning, so yes, I believe it might have an effect. Keep up the good work! And thanks for the positive feedback. I'm glad to share info whenever I can, and of course, the support goes both ways. We all need it!

[[Do...]]

Bump.  Thanks for this thread!

[[La...]]

Hi DoveLuv,

It's been rather quiet around here as of late. I'm not sure if that means that there are fewer people suffering with dizziness, or if people are just staying quiet for now. I always want to know how people are doing, but I do understand that there are times when people can't or don't want to write about it.

 

I hope everyone is hanging in there! 

[Guest [So...]]

Wow, other people have this too.

 

I’ve been off benzos for over 1.5 years and I’m still dizzy, I wonder if this ever ends?  I never had constant dizziness or insomnia until I got off these stupid drugs, and now I can’t seem to get well again.  My doctor says that it can’t be because of the Valium because I’ve been off for so long, although I did get some Xanax from a friend for awhile, and that cured me when I took it, so I’m pretty sure the drugs did this to me.  Can it really last this long though, 1.5 years??? 😮

[[jo...]]

Is there anything that helps with these Vertigo type s/x?

There are times when I am feeling fine just sitting in a chair and then suddenly without warning I feel as if I am about to pass out and the room turns upside down and starts spinning.  Other times I can be lying awake in bed and suddenly I feel like someone is trying to roll me out onto the floor and I have to hang on to the sheets even though I know I cannot be possibly moving.  Instead of creeping up on you like a panic attack, these s/x come on in a split second without warning.  Horrible s/x these meds can cause!!

 

Thanks

JoJo

[[Do...]]

Hello fellow floaters, 

    Dizziness was why I sought out medical opinions 1 yr ago.  I was on a lot of klon but was experiencing intermittent dizziness.  Doc said klon couldn't be causing and all blood work good.  I decided to cut back the klon to about half in late October.  By November my balance and coordination was truly dangerous.  I dosed back up and didn't help much.  Sought out an addiction specialist and he really screwed me.  Took me off in 6 days and said he didn't know why I was stumbling around.

    Anyway, I am 9 months from a c/t.  I still walk around with my hand up like I am using an imaginary wall to balance me.  But it is MUCH better.  It's with me every day to some degree but doesn't cause fear anymore.  If I find anything that works...will sure check back in.  Becoming over heated def makes it a thousand times worse for me.

[[La...]]

Hi Everyone!

I'm so sorry to hear about all these symptoms, but yes, benzodiazepines can definitely affect the vestibular (balance) system during and after the period that someone is on them. They're known in the medical literature as "vestibular suppressants", and they're not meant to be taken long term. I'm surprised and sad to know that so few doctors know about or acknowledge this fact. It's in the medical literature -- including Ear, Nose and Throat (ENT) textbooks. They can interfere with "vestibular compensation", which is the brain's way of normalizing balance.

 

I've posted this link quite a few times around here, but it might be a good idea to post it again for those who might not have seen it. Read the first part about whether medication can make people feel better when they're dizzy. It explains a bit about vestibular suppressants:

 

https://vestibular.org/understanding-vestibular-disorders/treatment/vestibular-medication

 

Dr. Ashton mentions this type of dizziness/disequilibrium in the Ashton Manual, so it's well known as a symptom.

 

Hang in there, Everyone! My best suggestion is to try to stay functional, but to be safe about it. If you need a cane or a walker, then go for it. Falling is NOT a good thing! Stay upright and stay calm...

[[Do...]]

Thanks Lapis!  Dizziness vs. vertigo.  It is an important distinction.  I have both and would much rather have the dizziness.  When the floor is rolling or coming up to meet me, I have trouble with basic functioning.  It can get a little dangerous.

Once again, we have a receptor problem. Many pathways and neuro-transmitters involved.  I just figure that the benzos damaged these receptors as well and they need to heal.  I didn't have the sxs until I hit tolerance.  I don't think any drug intervention is warranted with me.  The whole vestibular system is fascinating.

The article did mention to be cautious of stopping the vestibular suppressants (benzos) because of the "withdrawal syndrome."  At least this article recognized this.

 

I have a lot more to read on this thread...now that I can process info...some of the time.

[[La...]]

Hey DoveLuv!

I prefer the word "disequilibrium". Vertigo usually refers to spinning -- either you or your surroundings, and I don't have that. "Syncope" is fainting, which is what I did last Saturday. It's very different from benzo disequilibrium, which I already had on that day, and which I still had after I recovered from syncope (look up "vasovagal syncope"). Mine is very floaty-boaty, push-pull disequilibrium. "Dizziness" can refer to variety of sensations, so I think it's a bit less clear. But the terms are often used interchangeably, since few people likely spend a lot of time thinking or reading about this stuff!

 

Anyway, you might want to read the first few pages of this thread. I put up a number of links near the beginning, and then more along the way as I came upon different things. I'm still checking PubMed for studies that might be relevant to people around here.

 

Take care!