PLEASE DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL WHEN YOU FEEL RECOVERED

[Guest [to...]]

Thank you for starting this thread.  I have suspected something like this and had resigned myself to the fact that I will never drink again.  I figure is benzos react on the gaba receptors as do alcohol there would be a strong connection with addictions and the healing.

 

peace love and recovery to all

 

towardsthesun

[[WT...]]

I think Whoopsie's message may have been misinterpreted by a few readers.  What she is doing is offering a warning to be careful about drinking after you feel newly recovered -- as being symptom free does not mean full recovery yet.  In no way should it be interpreted as NEVER drink again, but as only a warning to the newly recovered ones, or (to be) newly recovered people. 

 

I went through w/d 15 years ago, and it was 2 or three years after I was better that I drank again, and I was fine.  But, the thing is I didn't know not to drink after w/d, it just so happened that it wasn't part of my life at that time, and that worked out good.  I was lucky.

[Guest [to...]]

I think Whoopsie's message may have been misinterpreted by a few readers.  What she is doing is offering a warning to be careful about drinking after you feel newly recovered -- as being symptom free does not mean full recovery yet.  In no way should it be interpreted as NEVER drink again, but as only a warning to the newly recovered ones, or (to be) newly recovered people. 

 

I went through w/d 15 years ago, and it was 2 or three years after I was better that I drank again, and I was fine.  But, the thing is I didn't know not to drink after w/d, it just so happened that it wasn't part of my life at that time, and that worked out good.  I was lucky.

 

Hi there WTBNA,

 

I live in Australia we have a huge drinking culture here.  I understood what was said, mine is a personal choice.  ,  I m 46 now and pretty much over the "drinking" stage of my life and  know the dangers of alcohol under normal circumstances. 

peace love and healing

towardsthesun

[[Bi...]]

I'm sorry you feel like this. I don't drink. I stopped four years ago.

 

On;y things I drink is water, soda, and milk mostly.  Love waking up in the morning and my soda kicks in! I cannot do without it and thank God I can drink it without my body acting up.

 

Feel better soon!

 

 

[[os...]]

Whoopsie.. I think your heading is alittle misleading. I am sorry you are dealing with not feeling well after having a few drinks after 36 months off of benzos, however I don't think this is the norm.  Not everyone has the same chemical make up. I am dealing with my own withdrawal right now. I am not trying to bash you in anyway and I do wish you luck and I hope you recover, but your heading is alittle misleading. Some people can handle alcohol after withdrawaling from benzo's others can't. Cheers!

 

You may have to be one of the ones who discovers it for yourself.  Don't say you didn't receive fair warning.  I know I didn't.

 

There are plenty of people here, myself included, who can drink moderately without ill consequences.  I am aware that not everyone is in the same place with the same makeup, so just as it would be misleading for me to tell everyone to go ahead and drink because it was fine for me so what's the problem, it's no more universal a thing when you tell everyone not to do it because it didn't work well for you.

 

Do you drink now sweet g?

 

Oscar

[[ge...]]

The alcohol drinking blows my mind for people still having symptoms. I was never a drinker but I did enjoy having a beer here and there so it was not hard for me to give up. i totally understand its part of peoples lifestyles and much harder to let go of completely.

 

Alcohol acts on GABA, which means it makes it much harder for them to stabilize. It just seems common sense not to mess with the thing you are trying to heal. Even if you don't go into waves, the alcohol is still hitting GABA.

 

I appreciate the warning, whoopsie. And hope you come out of this last wave soon

[[...]]

I think Whoopsie's message may have been misinterpreted by a few readers.  What she is doing is offering a warning to be careful about drinking after you feel newly recovered -- as being symptom free does not mean full recovery yet.  In no way should it be interpreted as NEVER drink again, but as only a warning to the newly recovered ones, or (to be) newly recovered people. 

 

I went through w/d 15 years ago, and it was 2 or three years after I was better that I drank again, and I was fine.  But, the thing is I didn't know not to drink after w/d, it just so happened that it wasn't part of my life at that time, and that worked out good.  I was lucky.

I second this and I want to thank Whoopsie for the warning! Drinking again is NOT worth it IMHO!--Not that I drank more than a couple of drinks a YEAR anyway!

 

Since alcohol also acts on GABA, it makes sense that you could get a sort of kindling reaction with it (similar as people get when taking a benzo in withdrawal). What's so hard to understand about this?

[[sw...]]

Whoopsie.. I think your heading is alittle misleading. I am sorry you are dealing with not feeling well after having a few drinks after 36 months off of benzos, however I don't think this is the norm.  Not everyone has the same chemical make up. I am dealing with my own withdrawal right now. I am not trying to bash you in anyway and I do wish you luck and I hope you recover, but your heading is alittle misleading. Some people can handle alcohol after withdrawaling from benzo's others can't. Cheers!

 

You may have to be one of the ones who discovers it for yourself.  Don't say you didn't receive fair warning.  I know I didn't.

 

There are plenty of people here, myself included, who can drink moderately without ill consequences.  I am aware that not everyone is in the same place with the same makeup, so just as it would be misleading for me to tell everyone to go ahead and drink because it was fine for me so what's the problem, it's no more universal a thing when you tell everyone not to do it because it didn't work well for you.

 

Do you drink now sweet g?

 

Oscar

 

Well, it's pretty few and far between, but I do have some alcohol every so often.  When I do, it is most commonly less than one beer if I'm at some sort of social situation where beer is more or less the only beverage available, and I'll just sip on the one the whole night without finishing it.  I'll also have wine with nice dinners, sometimes, if someone else provides it (alcohol in no way figures into my current budget).

 

Early on in the process, if I even had a taste of alcohol I could actually feel something weird happening in my head within 10 seconds.  Nothing bad happened, probably because I took that as my cue not to go any futher, but I didn't ever see any blow back from it.  This situation went away after the first year benzo free or so.

 

I have never in my withdrawal period (or really since way back when I was in college) had enough to drink to where I was either drunk at the time or hung over the next day, and I have never seen it result in an uptick of symptoms.  From all of the threads on the subject routinely on the forum, it's clear to me that there are a number of people who have a harder time with it, but also like some others, I am not one of them.

 

It seems to me that, at least in the very moderate format I have experienced it in, that alcohol in very moderate and occasional use does not seem to have any impact on my symptoms.  That said, who feels like drinking when you already feel like crap?  I'm generally really not inspired, but it can be pleasant to me on the odd social occasion.

[[...]]

This is MY experience with SUGAR in withdrawal. For the first 12 months off I would feel a tremendous increase in anxiety/agitation within 20-30 minutes after ingesting anything with sugar, so I avoided it. Then at abt 12 mos off I started eating more sugar and tolerating it more (meaning that I did not notice much increase in symptoms after 20-30 mins like I did before). So I increased the sugar to probably about 20-25 g a day. I've been doing pretty badly since then but never put two and two together. Until the lightbulb went on and I decided to cut down on my sugar. It's been 3 days since I cut it and in the last two days my DR and brain fog have diminished. It may just be coincidence but we'll see.

 

It seems that at some point in recovery, the shock to the body from ingesting alcohol or sugar or MSG is not as obvious or immediate, but my feeling is that it still can have a detrimental effect on the brain (but more in the long-term). This is just my personal feeling.

 

Your mileage may vary just the same way it may vary with psych drugs, but I wouldn't risk it. My mental health is way more important TO ME than drinking or eating sweets/MSG.

[[pa...]]

quick question.

what about smoking?

does it also effect gaba system at all?

i am currently tapering off klonopin.

want to quit smoking at the same time. but can't seem to tolerate the withdrawal symptoms from both.

[[os...]]

Early on in my taper, for about 6 months, i gorged on any food, chocolate galore, cake, crisps, i literally could not eat enough, i was always hungry.

 

When i hit a wall at 7.5 months into my taper, i lost a LOT of weight in the week leading to that and for a month after, i mean, the weight just FELL off me.

 

I quit caffeine a long time ago but when i had this happen, i quit all sugary foods also, apart from recently on my Birthday i had cake and cake every night for over a week and yes, you guessed it, i got bad anxiety again.

 

I have learnt that sugar actually DOES have an adverse effect on me, in the beginning of this i read all these sensitivities and thought much of it must be psychosomatic or something but yep, my body got used to eating clean without sugar of any description (other than some fruit).

 

It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone who is not fully healed would imbibe (sorry sweet g, just my opinion).

 

I would have thought that alcohol could well delay healing at least, even if it does not seem to have a detrimental effect, in MY opinion, i think many of us probably should lay off alcohol indefinitely, after all i have been through and all i am still going through (still tapering), there is no way in HELL i would drink alcohol again, to me, alcohol is just a liquid benzo and by the time i am done with this (YEARS of trying to restore my brain to a decent level of functioning), there is NO WAY i am going to go and get even vaguely tipsy on a beer... i mean, why have just one beer and risk recovery?

 

I will more than likely stay sugar free for a good year once off... i may not be free for 3 more years so what will another year be? I will buy some Stevia instead... straight up sugar, caffeine or alcohol will be a no no, alcohol will be sworn off for life... and i believe many of us that get back to drinking may well end up back on the benzo´s as a result.

 

Oscar

[[ih...]]

quick question.

what about smoking?

does it also effect gaba system at all?

i am currently tapering off klonopin.

want to quit smoking at the same time. but can't seem to tolerate the withdrawal symptoms from both.

 

PO, smoking does affect GABA receptors, although the precise mechanism is not yet understood.

 

Much as I support your goal to quit, if you are still highly symptomatic, I would be inclined to defer giving up the smokes until you are more stable.

[[Bi...]]

@[ m...]

 

It's interesting to me how some have such a horrible reaction to sugar. I ate it throughout my withdrawal and I didn't get any reaction. Sometimes I couldn't eat it, but most days I did. I'm 13 months off and can tolerate any kind of food, sugar, etc. I even drink coffee, soda, whatever. Coffee kind of made me sick like at month 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, but after that I handled it. Actually sometimes when I couldn't sleep, I ate a big piece of chocolate cake or a candy bar and fell asleep. Chocolate also helped my depression, but I didn't have the anxiety like many speak of. I was actually calmer than before I even took anything. So, maybe it was the anxiety doing that to you. I don't know...

 

 

 

 

[[sw...]]

It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone who is not fully healed would imbibe (sorry sweet g, just my opinion).

 

No offense taken.  I was aware that the Ashton Manual said that it was ok (though I really think that it should have some stronger warnings in there since it clearly is not for everyone) to drink in moderation once you are healing so I tried it. 

 

Like I said, originally a small sip made me feel weird (though no increase of symptoms, but I imagine that might have been different if I had had more) so I readily went without it.  Drinking has never been much of a part of my life so I didn't really care.  I tried again later and it didn't do anything bad and was kind of pleasant and reasonable for the occasion and Ashton is ok with it, so I don't really see a reason not to once in a while if I feel like it.  I hope that that answers your question.

 

[[pa...]]

quick question.

what about smoking?

does it also effect gaba system at all?

i am currently tapering off klonopin.

want to quit smoking at the same time. but can't seem to tolerate the withdrawal symptoms from both.

 

PO, smoking does affect GABA receptors, although the precise mechanism is not yet understood.

 

Much as I support your goal to quit, if you are still highly symptomatic, I would be inclined to defer giving up the smokes until you are more stable.

 

thank you ihope.

it's a poor excuse. but now, cigarrette smoking relaxes me when i am in a bad condition. will try to smoke less from now on, and quit it when i am off the klonopin.

[[ca...]]

I actually got fall to the floor drunk recently. No hang over either!

[[ka...]]

hi whoopsie i am sorry this had happen to you i hope for a fast recovery may i ask what were you drinking an how soon after you drank it did you start felling bad what was your withdrawls sys that lasted 8 more months out .....i am 19 months benzo free an had a small glass of wine on the 15 th of feb an another small glass on the 28th it just made me feel a little sleepy even those iam doing ok i would like to thank you for the warning of drinking wild still healing from benzo so i am going to make those drinks my last till iam at least 3 years clean .....kate7

[[Ho...]]

Benzos affect GABA A receptors and alcohol affects GABA B receptors.

 

 

Whoopsie, just courious, do you ever plan on trying alcohol again? Like 5 years from now? I'd like to know I could have a few beers in the future. I doubt I'll be trying any for at least one year after I heal....maybe longer.

[[...]]

@ mmir,

 

It's interesting to me how some have such a horrible reaction to sugar. I ate it throughout my withdrawal and I didn't get any reaction. Sometimes I couldn't eat it, but most days I did. I'm 13 months off and can tolerate any kind of food, sugar, etc. I even drink coffee, soda, whatever. Coffee kind of made me sick like at month 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, but after that I handled it. Actually sometimes when I couldn't sleep, I ate a big piece of chocolate cake or a candy bar and fell asleep. Chocolate also helped my depression, but I didn't have the anxiety like many speak of. I was actually calmer than before I even took anything. So, maybe it was the anxiety doing that to you. I don't know...

If sugar can make a healthy young kid hyper, I don't see how it's so hard for people to think that it could cause anxiety in SOME of us going through withdrawal...Common sense, people!

 

Do you know what we're doing to each other in this thread? EXACTLY the same thing doctors did to us. Generalizing one person's experience instead of putting ourselves in their shoes and being open to the possiblity that other people's realities are different from our own.

[[Pe...]]

Benzos affect GABA A receptors and alcohol affects GABA B receptors.

 

Whoopsie, just courious, do you ever plan on trying alcohol again? Like 5 years from now? I'd like to know I could have a few beers in the future. I doubt I'll be trying any for at least one year after I heal....maybe longer.

 

 

 

Hope-Fiend,

 

I don't think your statement above is accurate at all.  There are many many sources in the medical literature describing the various ways in which alcohol and benzos each effect the GABA A receptors and the GABA B receptors.  I'm not saying they act on them exactly the same, but their effect on one or the other is not exclusive. Here's one of those articles for your reference.

 

J Clin Psychiatry. 2003;64 Suppl 3:36-40.

GABA systems, benzodiazepines, and substance dependence. Malcolm RJ.

Medical University of South Carolina, Center for Drug and Alcohol Programs, Charleston 29425, USA.

 

Abstract

Alterations in the gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptor complex and GABA neurotransmission influence the reinforcing and intoxicating effects of alcohol and benzodiazepines. Chronic modulation of the GABA(A)-benzodiazepine receptor complex plays a major role in central nervous system dysregulation during alcohol abstinence. Withdrawal symptoms stem in part from a decreased GABAergic inhibitory function and an increase in glutamatergic excitatory function.  GABA(A) receptors play a role in both reward and withdrawal phenomena from alcohol and sedative-hypnotics.  Although less well understood, GABA(B) receptor complexes appear to play a role in inhibition of motivation and diminish relapse potential to reinforcing drugs.

 

The article goes on to say that alcohol use and alcohol withdrawal alters GABAergic function and down-regulates benzodiazepine binding sites among other things.

 

My point here isn't to say that this proves what will or won't happen to any given person who drinks alcohol after withdrawal from benzodiazepines.  However, I think it is misleading to conclusively state, as you did, that alcohol and benzodiazepines work on different types receptors. Sadly, it's just not that simple.  Given what is known about alcohol and benzodiazepines, perhaps it's not that surprising that while some people can get away with drinking, Whoopsie, and many other Benzo Buddies have been thrown back into intense benzo withdrawal by consuming alcohol.

 

I, for one, once I am recovered do not think I'll be wiling to take that risk. If my withdrawal from benzodiazepines had not been so severely debilitating, unimaginably horrifying and long in duration, I might feel differently.

 

Perseus

 

 

[[Bi...]]

@ mmir,

 

It's interesting to me how some have such a horrible reaction to sugar. I ate it throughout my withdrawal and I didn't get any reaction. Sometimes I couldn't eat it, but most days I did. I'm 13 months off and can tolerate any kind of food, sugar, etc. I even drink coffee, soda, whatever. Coffee kind of made me sick like at month 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, but after that I handled it. Actually sometimes when I couldn't sleep, I ate a big piece of chocolate cake or a candy bar and fell asleep. Chocolate also helped my depression, but I didn't have the anxiety like many speak of. I was actually calmer than before I even took anything. So, maybe it was the anxiety doing that to you. I don't know...

If sugar can make a healthy young kid hyper, I don't see how it's so hard for people to think that it could cause anxiety in SOME of us going through withdrawal...Common sense, people!

 

Do you know what we're doing to each other in this thread? EXACTLY the same thing doctors did to us. Generalizing one person's experience instead of putting ourselves in their shoes and being open to the possiblity that other people's realities are different from our own.

 

I wasn't trying to derail your way of thinking on the sugar subject. I know you're sensitive right now to what people says. I'm not quoting this to get a rise either! I was just stating it is interesting how sugar hypes some people. My body seems to crave it, of course I can only speak for myself. It craves it for a reason, maybe it's the levels.

 

I just find it strange how different stuff effects one when it doesn't the other.

 

I honestly don't buy sugar subtracts from one's life either or it's a bad chemical. It's not really. I had an aunt who ate candy everyday and lived to be 94 years old. So I don't believe that.

 

And just like alcohol. I knew a lady on here who c/t and drank a case of beer not long after and it didn't do anything to her, but in other people's cases it does.

 

It's just interesting how each of our bodies are so different.

[[Pe...]]

I just feel it's so important to offer this warning in a strong way to folks here on BB.  I was finally recovered at 37 months off.  I went on a holiday to a tropical island to celebrate.  Towards the end of a two week vacation I had 2 1/2 drinks of alcohol.  That was a huge mistake and I've been in a terrible setback ever since ... 8 months later and still quite sick.

 

I know of this happening to a few others as well.  When you get feeling good again and are happy and enjoying life please don't sabotage it by having a drink.  I totally understand why people do it, you're feeling free and a part of normal life again finally after such a long and horrific illness.

 

Please remember this warning when you recover, which you will, in time.

 

Whoopsie,

 

Thanks for taking the time to share your story and give myself and others the chance to really weigh the gravity of the potential consequences of drinking when we may "feel recovered", but our CNS may nonetheless still be repairing. I know some have said they drank or even continue to drink in moderation and it works out fine for them. No doubt, we remain very individual in how we experience withdrawal and the sensitivities we have during and after our recoveries.  For me it's not worth the risk, for someone else it may be. Either way I think you are brave and generous and to take the time to share your experience, especially when this is a topic some avoid because it can tend to engender contentious debate.

 

I note Whoopsie you are still suffering 8 months after those drinks on the tropical island where you were celebrating your recovery.  It must be so painful to be back in the throws of this horrendous experience for months on end.  I'm so so sorry, and hope your withdrawal ends again soon so you can get back to celebrating again - sans alcohol of course!!!! 

 

Perseus

[[Ho...]]

 

Hope-Fiend,

 

I don't think your statement above is accurate at all.  There are many many sources in the medical literature describing the various ways in which alcohol and benzos each effect the GABA A receptors and the GABA B receptors.  I'm not saying they act on them exactly the same, but their effect on one or the other is not exclusive. Here's one of those articles for your reference.

 

 

Benzos and alcohol are cross tolerant, however my statement was not entirely accurate. Alcohol is associated with both GABA A and GABA B. I was thinking about alcohol possibly affecting different subunits of GABA A (ie: α1, α5, α2, α3) as benzos.

 

Would be really nice if they could find out why alcohol withdrawal usually typically lasts 7 days as opposed to benzo wd taking years in some cases!

 

[[Cl...]]

Dear God.

 

Almost 3 years of withdrawal then 2 drinks puts you back for 8 months.  I can't imagine the disdain you must feel. I'm so, so sorry.

[[Ma...]]

Thank you Whoopsie. Risk to feel worse in benzo w/d or go back on start after feeling better is not logical to me. Giving up sugar, caffeine or be scared of some supplements and on the other had cannot give up alcohol is also not understandable for me. Maybe some people don't find that alcohol affect their healing but I suffered for long and lost so much of my life that I don't want to risk. That is just my point of view.

 

Marry