Who says we heal as we go?

[[aw...]]

Braban: I wouldn't have believed it 4 months ago, but I believe it now. People have been very confused about half life; it's logical to think that half life means half of how long it's "alive", i.e. active. But the term I'm familiar with is "elimination half life" and that half life [there are several, just to simplify things] is how long it takes for half of the drug to be eliminated from the compartment, in this case plasma. Is that about right, Bart? BTW, excellent post.

 

Now, here's what I'm thinking. What if the duration of action of A [i think of that as the time during which the serum concentration is above the lower limit of the "therapeutic window"] is actually about the same as V? I take them both, and Ativan's DofA is 6h for me, but I would have to take a much bigger dose of V to make the comparison. Hmm.....

 

Aweigh

 

 

 

 

[[Ma...]]

I can't point to the place where I read it, but I did read that Ativan's duration of action is actually longer than Valium, and is the preferred drug to use when transferring patients because of the longer duration of action.

 

So half life is a bit misleading.  Bart my doc said Valium has 200 metabolites.  Is this not so?  I read ativan has only one.  My personal thought about that is that its harder for the body to deal with more metabolites.

[[...]]

I can't point to the place where I read it, but I did read that Ativan's duration of action is actually longer than Valium, and is the preferred drug to use when transferring patients because of the longer duration of action.

 

So half life is a bit misleading.  Bart my doc said Valium has 200 metabolites.  Is this not so?  I read ativan has only one.  My personal thought about that is that its harder for the body to deal with more metabolites.

It's a little confusing, huh? The duration of Ativan is longer than Valium. The shorter duration of action of Valium is due to its much increased tissue distribution.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6131586

Valium only has 3 active metabolites, desmethyldiazepam, oxazepam and temazepam.

Ativan has only its glucuronide conjugate which is not metabolically active.

Because half  life does play a smaller but significant role, Valium should be a little easier to taper than Ativan, but IMO not a whole lot. I think Aweigh is doing the right thing to try and Ativan directly, reserving a Valium c/o only if necessary.

[[aw...]]

Well, it sure is encouraging to hear that, Bart. I wish that V was an easy option for me, but most of the docs 'round here are dead set against it.  I'm sure there are exceptions, and money always talks, but who wants to c/o to a new drug with a new set of problems? Anything that makes a direct A taper look more doable is music to my tongue    If I have to tune up "continuous tapering", so be it...I'd really like to just taper off of Ativan. I keep hearing little things that suggest a c/o from A is no longer standard, but I'm hardly the objective reader. BTW, the local Kaiser detox clinic c/o's all benzo patients to...wait for it...temazepam prior to taper.

 

Has anybody heard of extreme daytime sleepiness as a benzo w/d sx?

 

Aweigh

[[Br...]]

The duration of Ativan is longer than Valium. The shorter duration of action of Valium is due to its much increased tissue distribution.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6131586

Valium only has 3 active metabolites, desmethyldiazepam, oxazepam and temazepam.

Ativan has only its glucuronide conjugate which is not metabolically active.

Because half  life does play a smaller but significant role, Valium should be a little easier to taper than Ativan, but IMO not a whole lot. I think Aweigh is doing the right thing to try and Ativan directly, reserving a Valium c/o only if necessary.

 

Bart, that interesting study used a single dose.  With multiple dosing, wouldn't the accumulated diazepam in the second compartment subsequently feed back into the primary compartment (which I presume is where the pharmacological action takes place)?

 

In other words, presumably diazepam's duration of action would lengthen with repeated dosing?

[[Ma...]]

Honestly guys, this thread is confusing now, it's not about what it started out being. Can you start another one about what you're talking about... I guess we've exhausted this topic.

m

[[...]]

Braban:

I think you're right on that point. The duration of action and performance studies I have seen used a single dose on volunteers. I would expect the performance decrement to be less and the duration of action to be somewhat longer with chronic dosing. I doubt the effect would be a whole lot and tolerance would be a mitigating factor. As far as dosing, you just have to try it and see. There seems to be a really big variation among individuals.

Bart

[[Ma...]]

Aweigh,

 

I think the process of coming down off of benzos is a strain on the body and causes the body to go into some sort of coping mode.  It affects us physically and I think that will drain our bodies resources so that it makes us tired and weary.

[[aw...]]

Yeah, growing new GABA receptors is tiring work... When I was having severe bd sx, my body was convinced it was gonna die; now I think that was the 'coping mode' you speak of.

Aweigh

[[Br...]]

Bart:

Do you take your magnesium gylcinate on an empty stomach? This Medhelp article seems good and it says to take it on an empty stomach.  However I have seen several other sites advise taking magnesium with food.

 

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Heart-Rhythm/Magnesium-supplements----to-avoid---how-to-take-it-and--safety/show/1002415 (or http://goo.gl/T5pPM)

 

[[...]]

Braban:

I feel more of an effect on an empty stomach although I take it 3-4 times a day and some are with meals

[[Br...]]

Braban:

I feel more of an effect on an empty stomach although I take it 3-4 times a day and some are with meals

 

Hi Bart.  I will take my magnesium glycinate on an empty stomach.  I also want to take my diazepam on an empty stomach.

 

If I take the two together would the fillers in the mag tablet affect the absorption of diazepam?

 

I ask this because my magnesium tablets are big (weighing 1.2 grams but containing only 100mg of active ingredient). I may take 2 or even 3 at a time.

[[...]]

I doubt it would be significant. I take my first Valium dose as soon as I get out of bed and don't take anything else for at least 30 minutes. My second daily dose is in the evening and I just try and take it other than with a meal.