glutamate storm= (bzd withdrawal)

[[ih...]]

Due to the presence of glutamate receptors throughout the body, (particularly the cv system), memantine has many undesirable side effects & causes extreme weakness as a reasonably frequent side effect.  Drugs developed for Alzheimers tend to have all sorts of sledgehammer side effects given their main objective.

 

Fan, a psychiatrist who has been through withdrawal himself told me that valium withdrawal is hardest at the lowest doses because the receptors are still down-regulated & of course, GABA is at its lowest.

[[sp...]]

I don't know if I buy that argument; many people seem to have a relatively easy go of things, and obviously some upregulation is happening all along or tapering wouldn't work at all.

[[zo...]]

Due to the presence of glutamate receptors throughout the body, (particularly the cv system), memantine has many undesirable side effects & causes extreme weakness as a reasonably frequent side effect.  Drugs developed for Alzheimers tend to have all sorts of sledgehammer side effects given their main objective.

 

Hello IHope.  Does your comment about "drugs developed for Alzheimers" refer only to Namenda or does it also include Aricept?

 

I would be interested to know as I have some Aricept and was wondering whether to take some to try and improve my waves of brain fog. They can be so severe that I can't write or think no matter how hard I try and can last for days.

 

-Zoner

[[sp...]]

Aricept inhibits the enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine, so it's mechanism of action is completely different than the other drugs discussed here. I've got no idea how it would interact with benzo withdrawal, though my own experiments with piracetam and aniracetam were not inspiring.

[[...]]

agrewe with Spengler only namenda ----but its a crap shoot experiment -found a dr who would go off label--I would try it before Ashton tho.I know its just my opinion.

[[ih...]]

As Spengler says, Aricept is much more discrete in its actions, only inhibiting one enzyme rather than hitting multiple receptors throughout the body.

[[Bi...]]

You guys will love this

 

http://www.hindawi.com/crim/psychiatry/2012/749796/

[[Bi...]]

Memantine would ONLY be good as a POST JUMP drug to halt any s/x while healing occurred?  AGREED??

 

If taken while still taking benzo's It would just cause increased potential of the benzo's on the brain and act to amplify them.  Agreed?

 

 

[[...]]

I wonder if memantine would delay the body's natural re-regulation of glutamate pathways.

[[ih...]]

Very interesting. I haven't found any papers suggesting that antagonising the  NMDA receptor has the sorts of long term effects that agonising the GABA receptors does, but definitely in lab rat territory as usual.

 

Good find, Bird.

 

 

[[Br...]]

Has anyone looked at using Acamprosate for benzo withdrawal?  It is used for alcohol withdrawal and is said to help compensate for the damaged GABA receptor as well as reduce any glutamate storm.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acamprosate

[[Bi...]]

I wonder if memantine would delay the body's natural re-regulation of glutamate pathways.

'

Hi bart, I do not think so. memantine does not mess with GABA it just lowers glutamate levels.  But then the brain adapts so it may slow GABA up regulation since the brain will not feel any stress and react by healing.

 

BUT,,,,, there are PLUSES:

 

A. It's NOT a benzo.

B. It could also be slow tapered

C. It IS designed for lifetime long use 50 years+ is OK - Benzo's can only be used 2 weeks.

D. It could gave relief for PAWS while NOT being a benzo.

 

This could be a good post taper therapy to take the edge off!

 

Bird

[[Bi...]]

Very interesting. I haven't found any papers suggesting that antagonising the  NMDA receptor has the sorts of long term effects that agonising the GABA receptors does, but definitely in lab rat territory as usual.

 

Good find, Bird.

 

Thanks Ihope

[[Bi...]]

Has anyone looked at using Acamprosate for benzo withdrawal?  It is used for alcohol withdrawal and is said to help compensate for the damaged GABA receptor as well as reduce any glutamate storm.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acamprosate

 

Hi Braban,  It looks good too

 

Acamprosate is not a controlled substance and therefore is not viewed as presenting a risk for abuse or addiction.

 

Acamprosate is not known to cause addiction or lead to abuse in an individual, although it can still happen. If the medication is abruptly stopped, withdrawal symptoms can still occur. Such symptoms have been reported when more Acamprosate is taken than what is medically prescribed

 

 

http://www.drugrehabwiki.com/wiki/Acamprosate

 

[[...]]

I wonder if memantine would delay the body's natural re-regulation of glutamate pathways.

'

Hi bart, I do not think so. memantine does not mess with GABA it just lowers glutamate levels.  But then the brain adapts so it may slow GABA up regulation since the brain will not feel any stress and react by healing.

 

BUT,,,,, there are PLUSES:

 

A. It's NOT a benzo.

B. It could also be slow tapered

C. It IS designed for lifetime long use 50 years+ is OK - Benzo's can only be used 2 weeks.

D. It could gave relief for PAWS while NOT being a benzo.

 

This could be a good post taper therapy to take the edge off!

 

Bird

 

When you artificially lower glutamate levels with some drug the body has no stimulus to lower the levels on its own. When the drug is stopped, glutamate levels could go back up. It is possible that this drug would have to be tapered for this reason.

[[Wi...]]

I wonder if memantine would delay the body's natural re-regulation of glutamate pathways.

'

Hi bart, I do not think so. memantine does not mess with GABA it just lowers glutamate levels.  But then the brain adapts so it may slow GABA up regulation since the brain will not feel any stress and react by healing.

 

BUT,,,,, there are PLUSES:

 

A. It's NOT a benzo.

B. It could also be slow tapered

C. It IS designed for lifetime long use 50 years+ is OK - Benzo's can only be used 2 weeks.

D. It could gave relief for PAWS while NOT being a benzo.

 

This could be a good post taper therapy to take the edge off!

 

Bird

 

When you artificially lower glutamate levels with some drug the body has no stimulus to lower the levels on its own. When the drug is stopped, glutamate levels could go back up. It is possible that this drug would have to be tapered for this reason.

 

In your opinion, would that count for Acamprosate too?

[[...]]

Yes. I don't have any clinical experience or personal experience with Acamprosate, but theoretically it could help benzo w/d symptoms by increasing the effect of GABA and decreasing glutamate's effect. It would probably best to taper it after the benzo taper is completed as the body would need to rebalance without the drug's effects present. I think some BBs have taken it with mixed results. If you're having a lot of symptoms during your taper, it does look like something worth a try. Maybe somebody with experience on Acamprosate can chime in.

[[Bi...]]

Hi Bart,

 

We should probably start a new thread called  "Acamprosate Does It Work For You?"

 

OK I will do it now

[[...]]

Yo Bird

I'd try it if I were having problems and wasn't near the end of my taper.

Lab Rat #1 (If you try it I'll relinquish my title to you)

[[sp...]]

Campral is a lot tamer than memantine or other things that have been suggested! Unfortunately it did absolutely nothing for me.

[[as...]]

My general feeling is that if you use any drug that has an impact on the same processes as benzos, you will have to taper from that, and you will experience the same type of withdrawal for the same amount of time as you would have from benzos for the reasons that Bart said. Healing only happens when the receptors and the like re-regulate back to pre-benzo levels, which won't happen if drugs are preventing glutamate or GABA from returning to its pre-benzo state.

 

Only by using drugs that don't effect these receptors or these neurotransmitters for benzo withdrawal syptoms can you gain any benefit .... In theory, by using those, you would lessen benzo withdrawal symptoms without delaying the recovery from benzo withdrawal. For me, I think Remeron is the perfect fit for this. I've been healing underneath it, without a doubt. I plan to come off the remeron at 36-months post-benzo.

[[Bi...]]

Yo Bird

I'd try it if I were having problems and wasn't near the end of my taper.

Lab Rat #1 (If you try it I'll relinquish my title to you)

 

Hi bart,  I don't think Campral will work until after a jump.  I still think a nano taper is better.

[[...]]

Yo Bird

I'd try it if I were having problems and wasn't near the end of my taper.

Lab Rat #1 (If you try it I'll relinquish my title to you)

Yup, as long as you're not in tolerance withdrawal or having some adverse effect from the benzo, nothing beats a slow taper. But I'll still keep looking for a softer easier way to the end. I hit .07 today and feel great. I had a recent uptick of symptoms that seems to have been cured by a 2 week hold. I'm trying to be as close to completely healed as possible at the end of my taper. Who knows?

I'm getting curious about the very end and immediate time after the taper is completed.

Bart

Hi bart,  I don't think Campral will work until after a jump.  I still think a nano taper is better.

[[Bi...]]

memantine at 40 mgs. is addictive and causes up regulation of glutamate receptors. 

I have been on memantine and I can tell you that it takes about 120mg per day to get any real effect and doctors get nervous at prescribing these high levels.

[[Ja...]]

Bart did your Akathesia resolve and if so how?