The Klonopin Klub

[[Le...]]

You guys have no idea how much your responses mean to me. I knew there had to be other people out there to talk to that were going through this kind of thing, but to see it all here on one site...it's just tremendous.

 

It does make me feel somewhat better than the hand shaking, and foggy head, and other uncomfortable symptoms are very common. As uncomfortable as they are, it's obviously good to know I am not the only one.

 

My psych said to reduce the PM pill from 1mg to .75mg for a few weeks and then go from .75 to .50 and so forth. But even though I'm only about one week into this journey, I feel like I'll stay a .75mg (the first cut) for longer than a few weeks. My body seems to be really sensitive to medication changes, so I don't want to rush things at all. I want to play this as safe as I can.

 

I had my first softball game of the season yesterday and right before the game my hands were shaking so much, heart racing, I had to take an Ativan. It calmed down and I did play, but it's already getting to be such a drag.

 

I'm still extremely nervous about future cuts, and the withdrawal symptoms as I get on lower and lower doseages. As you all have said, the symptoms depend on the individual. But reading some of the symptoms on this site...I wonder how people can even live life sometimes. Were you (for those that are further along in the process or already off Klon) able to work? Able to have a social life? Able to interact with people?? It just scares me.

 

One further thought for this post...my pysch didn't seem to mention anything serious about coming off this benzo. Why is it that no doctor or professional says anything about the dangers of Klonipin?!

 

THANK YOU all again! These forums will no doubt become like a family to me moving forward.

[[Ju...]]

I took NO klonopin last night.  ;D ;D ;D

 

Sure I took a bunch of valium.... but I really feel like I am heading in the right direction. As I said before I still want to be in the K Klub since that is what got me here... just not taking K anymore! Hooray!

 

Letsgobirds- please think carefully about taking ativan while trying to taper klonopin. Read the ashton manual if you havent already. They are both benzos, and taking ativan might temporarily help with withdrawal symptoms, it isnt going to be a good idea in the long run. I'm not telling you what to do, I just know (in hindsight) that the last time I was sucked into the whirling quicksand of benzos it was because I was told that ativan is much easier to take and not difficult to stop like klonopin. Hmmmm, no- not for me at least.

[[In...]]

Letsgobirds,

 

Yes the sx you describe are common to benzo withdrawl. And it is not a surprise as you have dropped 25% of your daily dose by going from 1 mg to .75 mg.

 

If you are going to stay at .75 mg which you certainly could do so, I think your doctor gave you good advice to wait it out several weeks. But I also think that your doctor advised you incorrectly when he/she advised you to drop such a large percentage of your daily dose.

 

You are right, IMO, to take it slowly. In fact, I would go much slower than you are going in that I would cut less mgs from your daily dose and hold that level until you felt ok. However, as you mentioned, it has been said, and I know I have said it myself also, that tapering is an individual process. Some of us have an easier time of it than others for sure.

 

And I'd just like to add, IMO, you should stay away from the Ativan. Ativan is another benzo, and to me it doesn't make sense to taper K and try to deal with the withdrawl sx by taking another benzo. I think one is either trying to lower their dose/get off their benzo or there not.

 

A lot of people apparently don't have serious withdrawl effects from coming off a benzo. And there's really nothing to suggest that anyone would have a serious condition develop coming off a benzo. Many people struggle with these withdrawl sx, and many do not. And there are cases of health conditions developing from being on a benzo, but lots of research into any of this has unfortunately not been done on people.

 

Generally speaking, doctors say very little if anything about the "dangers" of dependency development as far as any benzo. It's not just K; it's all of them. And doctors may or may not know. The big pharmaceutical companies provide doctors with a lot of their knowledge about all "brain meds." And that knowledge does not always allow for the negative side. And in medical school and pharmacy school, doctors and pharmacists are not necessarily taught major courses about one type of medication. I've actually asked the pharmacists and pharmacy interns about this where I go for my Rxes.

 

I hope some of your questions have been answered.

 

Intend

[[el...]]

Hi LetsGoBirds,

 

Congratulations for making the decision to get off Klonopin! 

 

The side effects you mentioned are indeed normal and the shaking should resolve in time.  Your brain is making adjustments as you reduce your dose.

 

As you continue to drop your dose, please be aware that many people don't recommend cutting more than 10% of CURRENT dose every two weeks.  Your cut is a bit more at 12.5%.  IMO I would not continue with .25 cuts since you are cutting more of a percentage as you go down.

 

Listen to your body and please don't be afraid of what people have written here.  Everyone is very different.  I agree with Intend that you should think twice about Ativan.  Also, check out the Ashton manual where she recommends crossing over to valium which has a longer 1/2 life than K. 

 

Good luck to you!

 

Ellen

[[...]]

Hi Folks, been gone a few days, somebody in worse crisis than me for a change.  So, I've been trying to comfort.  I'm not home so I haven't read all the posts since last Thurs.  I've been doing good... some d/p today, butno big time trauma... 7 days into my last cut and no major sx.  Awieigh, as you know, I took K 1x/d for years when it was prescribed for bdtime... but I couldn't do that now... if I did that now, I would suffer as I do whenever I miss a dose okay, that's enough of this... I can't type on this machine. Iam as always wishing well to all... Welcome new people... you've come to the right place.

[[ja...]]

WB NJoy. The position of "Cornerstone" is officially open - Rek sang her swan song

[[Ma...]]

Hi dropped from 1 to .75 and feeling like I am going nuts. take K at night - sleep well- ok until 10 then feeling anxious... Can manage with visteral...by 3, crushing internal brain pain and feeling like I am going crazy.. Like not in this world.. Then oddly by 7-8 relief comes...

Wondering if I should 1) go back to 1 - stabilize and taper slower

2) work to split dose during day over next few days

3) wait it out..l if so how long to stabilize? Have no clue how long it can take!

 

I have only been on K for 3 months- and could cut dose in half no problem just a month ago.. Totally crazy.

 

Please any advice support would be appreciAed

 

[[In...]]

Mark Murphy,

 

Well, I don't  know if you saw my post about moving to 2 times per day dosing, but if not, you could go back to Page 372 on this thread, reply #3714 where I explain how you might do that.

 

So, you've pretty much listed your options here.

 

#1 is a good idea because it's generally best to start a taper from a place of stability. The thing to consider is how long you've been at .75 mgs. ( I can't remember ). But there is a possibility that up dosing won't be effective depending on how your receptors accept the increase. Once again, this is determined by individuality and not guaranteed. But there is most likely no harm in trying this.

 

#2 is also an ok idea as it will help to reduce your withdrawl sx, and since you've now dropped to .75 mg anyway, it's never a "not good" idea to realize you've dropped some benzo, and keep it there and stabilize.

 

#3 it may take awhile, but you will stabilize to some degree. No one can really tell you how long as this is once again, individual. I'd guess that it might take 2-3 weeks minimum, but no guarantees.

 

Intend

[[Ma...]]

Thanks intend- i have been on this dose for 9 days.. On K for just 2.5 months.. Can't believe I'm having this much trouble

[[In...]]

Hey Mark,

 

I hear you. It's very disturbing. When you say that a month ago you were able to drop .5 mg with no difficulty, that shows how fast the dependency can happen. And it shows how the receptors can change quickly which is, of course, intrinsic to dependency.

 

So if you've been on .75 mg for 9 days, you could try up dosing. It's not going to harm you in general. No reason to fear that. It's just really up to you. But if you're going to try up dosing, I'd say do it soon as in now. Then you'll know where you stand. You've already made up your mind to get off, and you haven't been on very long.

 

So a taper for you doesn't have to be a long one at all, but indecision can stall you and keep you on this longer than necessary. If I had your time on K, I'd move to get this taper going ASAP. Withdrawals are most likely inevitable, so it's best to accept that and decide what you're going to do, and begin.

 

I'd drop less than .25 mgs next time as in perhaps .125 mg, and hold till you feel ok. Then I'd do it again. Time can be a factor here because you're a "short timer" and that's good.

 

Intend

 

[[ju...]]

Im back in the k klub, 1mg, 2 .5 mg in am and pm. Very frustrated! I had got down to 8 mg of valium, although painful, i was there. Is 1mg  a day for another month or so alot? Ill have to taper using water titration, is my next plan. Please see my signature and any input would be greatly helpful. X~Julie

[[Le...]]

Thanks again for your thoughts, guys. I just find it mind boggling that cutting so little from a pill can cause so much havoc on a human body. I mean, I'm cutting a quarter of one of the two pills I take per day. And all the symptoms have already started. I find that ....just wild that so little can be so dramatic.

 

Three questions at this point too:

 

1 - I didn't know that cutting .25 mg of a pill was too "big". The next time I cut (in 3 weeks maybe?), should I cut it down so that I'm on .65 mg in the PM on that pill? Instead of cutting another .25 down to .5 mg?? And, I have a good pill cutter, is that all you guys use for exact cutting??

 

2 - Ativan has kind of been my go to for serious anxiety and panic over the years. I take it just now and then. If you all don't reccommend I use Ativan when my anxiety kicks up a lot, what do you think I should do? I have CBT skills and breathing exercises, but that often isn't quite enough to quell an anxiety attack...

 

3 - I see that quite a lot of people have Valium or some other drug used as they're getting off Klonipin to help them out, and even after they finally get off Klon, they use another drug to ease that transition. Is doing that necessary??

 

Much appreciated again everyone, much appreciated 

[[Ma...]]

Intend - thanks for the advice. Would you go back up to 1mg where I was when I started- or ad back .125? Really appreciate your thought

[[Le...]]

and a late PS from my last post:

 

I know I'm brand new here, but....the stories people have in their posts or signatures, they are really scaring me! I knew it would be difficult to get off Klon, but some of you are suffering a great deal. I don't even know what to say about it other than I'm scared. I'll titrate very slowly for sure, but still.....

[[In...]]

Letsgobirds,

 

I did not realize that you were on 2 mgs of K per day (didnt read you signature, sorry). So youre cut of .25 mg was 12.5% which is a lot. It could fall within Ashton's rates of 5-10% off or 10-15% off every 2 weeks, but since youve been on K since 2003, it has proven by what you say to be too much of a cut for you if you feel you cant deal with the withdrawl sx.

 

That part is up to you. So now youre at 1.75 mgs is what I understand. Id taper at .125 mgs off at a time if you want to dry cut. I myself am using milk titration at a micro level. That is rather different from dry cutting. Pill cutting is not "exact," but it can certainly work.

 

I was able to cut my .5 mgs K pills into eighths which is .0625 mgs each piece using a heavy Henckles knife. It takes some practice and determination, but its very doable. I only used a pill cutter when cutting a 1 mg pill into fourths, or a .5 mgs pill into fourths. Beyond that, I used the knife.

 

I just cant recommend the Ativan because it is a benzo. If youre trying to get off K, youre trying to up regulate your GABA receptors. And when you take Ativan, you send a signal to those receptors that a benzo is present, and that there is no need to up regulate. And even doing this sporadically confuses your receptors. I think we're all having to handle anxiety here, so I think Id really try those breathing exercises, and CBT skills.

 

I dont know who is using valium here to "help them out" while they get off K, but doing that, if it is being done, is the same as taking the Ativan. I suppose some are crossing to valium from K. And I suppose some are taking Valium concurrently with K as a protocol most likely set up by a doctor with the intention of tapering the valium after the K. And others may be taking valium for other purposes as these drugs do have medical purposes other than anxiety or sleep issues.

 

There are some other meds one can take PRN for anxiety. I have an Rx for clonidine .1 mg for this purpose. Clonidine is actually an older HBP med, but it can be used for anxiety also. I do not take it regularly as I dont have anxiety in the "benzo sense" which to me is completely different than having worrying type anxiety plus, used regularly, it does require a taper. And Im not about to get into tapering anything else.  But I have used it once when I did a cut, and had a bit of a panic attack. It worked wonders for me in that it put me to sleep. That was more than I expected, and luckily I was at home.

 

I also believe that Visteral is used for anxiety. Im not really an expert on these meds, but you could ask your doctor about them to avoid any more use of benzos. And sometimes, we just have to tough this stuff out. And I know thats not easy.

 

And yes, I suppose this can be scary. I started awhile back by tapering xanax before I was benzowise one bit. I did have withdrawl sx, and they were annoying, but I wasnt scared because I wasnt reading all the "scary stuff" at the time. But Ive a bit of a "tortured" benzo history here, and now my receptors have been ultra sensitized to the loss of a small amount of benzo which is why I am micro liquid titrating. So, Id just say try to literally grin and bear it. Its about all one can do if you want to lower your dose or get off the K.

 

Right now, Im being realistic and shooting for lowering my dose. But I expect that as upregulation happens, I will keep on moving to get off this wonderful stuff. I find that I experience depression way more than fear, but thats me.

 

Intend

[[ho...]]

Mark,

It'not to late to updose back to 1mg to get stable.

If I were in your shoes I would do that. Split it into 2... 5mg doses, get stable, then titrate. If you intend to dry cut instead, I don't know how you can make the small cuts necessary to avoid the worse sx unless you get a scale to measure small accurate cuts.

 

You are experiencing what many of us here have gone through, jumping in with both feet too quickly and suffering for it.

Yes, it IS amazing how a small reduction in the pill can be such a big deal. As you are finding out, K is an extremly powerful drug.

 

Best of luck, keep us posted,

hopeful2013

[[In...]]

Mark,

 

Actually, your idea of going up by .125 mgs is a pretty good one. Kind of a compromise there. I do believe Id do that. And then give yourself a few days to see how your feeling and start your taper from there after a bit of stabilization on that level of .875 mgs.

 

Remember that feeling stable once a taper is started is not a perfect situation; its that your sx are tolerable and pretty much unchanging. So I think youve come up with a very good idea.

 

Also, remember that going up may not help with the withdrawl as those receptors really do have "minds" of their own. It may be that your receptors just wont accept the increase. Its really unpredictable, but worth a try as it will not harm you, and may help you feel better to continue your taper.

 

Id give that a go right now.

 

Intend

[[Ma...]]

Thanks for the advice.

Feels great to know there are people out there that can help and relate!

 

 

[[ho...]]

I agree with Intends post. When I said "stable", what I mean was to get to  a place where the sx are tolerable.

 

My own taper is going very well. When I began titrating March 1st, it seemed like it would take such a long time to complete.

I expect to finish the begining of next month. The time has gone by much more quickly than I thought it would.

I have had a few hard days, but not many. Most of my taper has gone very smoothly. I'm very greatful. So glad I found BB and the KK. I have learned everything I know about benzos here. I really appreciate every post. I am heartbroken for those who suffer. I rejoice with those who have overcome. I stand right with those who continue to fight to be free.

 

When I first came here I had never been so scared in my life.

Thank you    thank you  for putting my fears to rest and helping me on my path to freedom.

 

I remain,

hopeful2013

[[Sk...]]

so very well put hopeful.

[[ho...]]

Hey Sky Zone !  Thanks!

 

How are things going for you?

 

Blessings,

hopeful2013

[[Mo...]]

To all the new folks again welcome.

 

Tonight is rough. Head is tight and hurts, chest is tighter and hurts. Tension all over. Urge to cry but no actual crying yet. Not that it's a bad thing sometimes a good cry is very helpful. This wave is almost totally physical which is new for me. Anxiety is around with chest tightness and pain but its not bad. Im also grumpy and being immaturely rude to people which is SUPER crappy of me. Regardless of symptoms tomorrow I am being more positive and nice to everyone around me. No excuse to be a jerk to people who did nothing wrong. Gonna take some tylenol for the headache and go to sleep. Be well all.

[[Sk...]]

Hey Sky Zone !  Thanks!

 

How are things going for you?

 

Blessings,

hopeful2013

Going great!  I am feeling better as I go lower and lower on my dose.  I have a good feeling I will get through the entire taper on schedule. 

 

-SZ-

[[ja...]]

Letsgobirds,

 

I hate to bring attention to myself, but I really think I'm an example of how you can get through it and end up ok on the other end. I actually didn't join the Klonopin Klub until July of 2012, 6 weeks after I jumped (c/t from 2.5 mg). I read everyone's experiences and got scared, too - but what I've seen in the year I've been in the KK is that everyone has a different experience. I think it's true that none of us can get away from the suffering. But I assure you, life on the other end is SO much better than life on the K. It may not feel worth it now while you feel like crap, but...just trust me.

 

I've seen a lot of people come and go here, and I will say that I've seen many people get off the Klonopin and find "windows" that keep growing. Sometimes I think I stay around to see the success of my buddies as they finish the K and start living. So, Letsgobirds, I have seen a lot of great things here, and I want to see you get there, too

 

jaxnj

[[re...]]

Hey, folks - I'm still hanging around here on the fringes.  I've gotten some very sweet responses to my "swan song," as Jaxy put it (hi, Jaxy!), and I'm going to modify what I said the other day just a little bit--make it less of a swan song and more like a semi-retirement announcement.  I'm still going to try to keep general tabs on what's happening here at KK, and if I see something that I feel I can speak to fairly specifically, then I'll still respond if I can.  I just won't be able to make individual responses as much as I wish I could.  Please know, though, that I'm thinking of each and every one of you and if I could teleport strength and relief to you I would.  Above all, I would eradicate your fear, which is arguably the worst part of this whole business.

 

And that brings me to my topic for today.  I really want to stress to Letsgobirds and others who may be feeling fearful that it's important to try not to let other people's experiences here frighten you, though I know that's hard.  No two people going through this are going to feel it in precisely the same way, so we're all finding our path step by step.  Focus as much as you can on the strength you find in posts from fellow-sufferers who are discovering handholds and footholds in the little improvements day-to-day (even if sometimes followed by setbacks) or the glimmers of light at the end of the tunnel.  Easy for me to say, I know, when I'm this far out.  But I remember being in hell--I remember it only too well.  It was less than a year ago, and it's really only in the last few weeks that I've felt as though the last of my major symptoms (weird, persistent upper arm pain) finally dissipated.  A symptom that to me at least is minor--nonstop tinnitus--I've accepted may be a tougher nut to crack, and I'm resigned to putting up with it for some unforeseeable amount of time.  Anyway, here, in no particular order, are the things that helped me the most:

 

1. Knowing I wasn't alone--that others were going through similar ordeals and many had already started to feel better.

2. Mindfulness meditation: I am absolutely convinced that it was this that made my third attempt to kick clonazepam successful.  It doesn't work for everyone, but it's worth a try.

3. Regarding the awfulness (both physical and psychological) of how I felt as an opportunity to take extraordinarily good care of myself--to cherish my own well being, even if "well being" seemed an entirely hypothetical concept at the time.  I cleaned up my diet A LOT--keeping it as fresh and balanced as possible, reducing gluten to virtually nil, and ultimately eliminating both alcohol and caffeine.  I got back into exercising (mainly walking, some biking) as soon as I felt able.  I tried to get reasonable doses of full-spectrum light.  I stopped taking most supplements (which, ironically, can be iffy when you're in benzo withdrawal) and ALL medications except a very occasional strong headache remedy.

 

I cannot believe the way I feel today, compared to a year ago, ten months ago, eight months ago, even a couple of months ago (although by a couple of months ago I was mostly out of the woods).  Most of the body-pain and discomfort is gone.  I still feel a bit depressed at times, I still don't always sleep well, and I'm still a fairly anxious person--that just seems to be who I am, but I'm committed to addressing these things in non-medicinal ways (meditation, deep breathing, exercise).  My husband and I saw a program on TV last week that featured doctors--MEDICAL DOCTORS--saying things like, "There is no drug I can prescribe that has as much potential healing power as mindfulness meditation," and in general promoting, besides meditation and yoga, good nutrition and exercise over drug therapy.  I wanted to take them by the lapels and say, "PLEASE CALL MY DOCTORS AND TELL THEM EVERYTHING YOU'RE SAYING HERE!"  Why are such doctors still lone voices in the wilderness?  Is it just that Big Pharma = Darth Vader/Voldemort (take your pick)?  I dunno.  All I know is we have to approach mainstream medical advice with a great deal of skepticism, and generally go elsewhere to educate ourselves.

 

Here I am, back up on my soapbox!  Sorry about that.  Hearts to you guys.  You are all awesome, and you will prevail! 

 

Peace,

 

Rek