PROGESTERONE AND BENZOS

[[jo...]]

Would taking progesterone help with benzo withdrawal during a taper?

I am so sorry to hear that these extra substances that you took to help you set you back.

Thank you, I've just read that bio identical progesterone could help with benzo withdrawal. Is this true?

No it is cross tolerant with benzos. Please save yourself the worry.

[[Te...]]

Wow. I thought I was the only person who suffered from this problem. I suffered a horrific withdrawal from coming off of birth control pills. I didn't understand why it was so bad. An emergency room gave me Klonopin and it stopped the birth control withdrawal.... This was so puzzling to me at the time and no doctor believed what was happening to me..... There is a doctor who writes about this very topic in a book about hormones called, Screaming To Be Heard. She's one of the only doctors I've seen who recognizes this correlation. I want to talk to her some day but her appointments are 1,000 dollars.

[[Te...]]

I decided to type up some excerpts from the Screaming To Be Heard book by Elizabeth Lee Vliet, MD. Hopefully this can help someone else here as much as it helped me:

 

Many women have told me over the years that they have become depressed when they take progesterone or use the ‘wild yam’ progesterone creams. This is to be expected due to progesterone’s effects on the brain, since several metabolic breakdown products of the nature human progesterone molecule are very potent depressants of brain (CNS) function. One of the metabolites of progesterone (3-alpha-OH-DHP) has been found to be about eight times more potent as a CNS depressant producing antianxiety, sedative effects than the most potent barbiturate known today, methohexital. Studies looking at the anti-convulsant actions of 3-alpha-OH-DHP have found it to be more potent than clonazepam (Klonopin), a high-potency benzodiazepine used for epilepsy and panic disorder. Depressed mood occurring with progesterone is similar to the depressant effects on some women when taking Klonopin or Valium.

 

The neuroendocrine studies that have identified these progesterone metabolic products and their effects at brain receptors go back several decades, but much of this literature has not made its way into general clinical settings, particularly in the fields of psychiatry and gynecology. The progesterone metabolites above actually attach to GABA receptors, the same ones that bind the benzodiazepine drugs. At higher levels, progesterone actually acts very much like these anti-anxiety medications by attaching to the GABA receptor sites and causing release of the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA, just as Klonpin, Valium, and the others in this group of medicines do. Inhibitory action at the GABA receptor complex causes decreased anxiety, decrease in seizures, increased sedation, delay in word recall and verbal responses, and potential increase in depression. The depressant effects seem to occur at higher doses than are needed for anti-anxiety effects, again similar to those effects we see with benzodiazepines. The depressant effects of progesterone are now thought to primarily occur from one of its metabolites, 3-alpha, 5-alpha-THP and allopregnanolone. Levels of allopregnanolone have been shown to correlate well with circulating levels of progesterone in the bloodstream.

 

An interesting observation in several studies is that progesterone given to either men or women produces effects like Valium (and other benzodiazepines) on such measurable variables as heart rate, blood pressure, respiratory rate, and the electrocardiogram patterns. It also causes quite pronounced daytime sleepiness for many, male or female. The flip side of this effect is that progesterone produces withdrawal effects similar to other medications that act at the GABA receptor, such as benzodiazepines and barbituates. This effect has been shown in men and women. This withdrawal syndrome increases anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, tearfulness, and other effects.

 

The binding of progesterone metabolites to the GABA receptor complex appears to be one of the primary reasons that high doses of progesterone help decrease anxiety in some women with severe PMS. The doses typically used for PMS treatment may run anywhere from 400-1600mg a day and produce blood levels actually higher than the levels of progesterone seen in the third trimester of pregnancy. Such high doses are actually providing a pharmacologic effect on the brain, similar to benzodiazepine medicines, rather than a physiologic one mimicking the levels and functions of a normal menstrual cycle. At these higher doses, the anxiety-relieving metabolites of progesterone are found to be depressogenic, much like what happens to some people when taking higher doses of Valium or Ativan over a period of time. The brain actions are essentially the same, but then over time, it can make depressed, dysphoric moods worse.

 

Frye and Duncan (1994) showed that, in rats, diminished pain sensitivity correlated well with the relative binding actions of various progesterone metabolites at the GABA receptor complex. They looked at several different compounds, and those that were strongly bound to GABA receptors showed he greatest reduction in pain, while the GABA antagonist compounds such as DHEA-S did not improve pain sensitivity.

 

 

 

[[Te...]]

I really would like to reignite this thread because the dangers of progesterone pharmaceuticals should be known.

[[sa...]]

I really would like to reignite this thread because the dangers of progesterone pharmaceuticals should be known.

 

I agree.  And also, I love your username!

[[Te...]]

Thanks!  Did you see the excerpt I posted above from a book about this? Have you experienced anything bad with progesterone medications yourself?

[[sa...]]

Thanks!  Did you see the excerpt I posted above from a book about this? Have you experienced anything bad with progesterone medications yourself?

 

Yes, I did read the excerpt.  Very enlightening.  It helped me understand why I could not use progesterone.  I had a paradoxical reaction to it, which maybe was a good thing because I had no idea there was a withdrawal syndrome from quitting.  I only used it a couple times before I realized it was not helping and only hurting me.

[[Te...]]

Thanks!  Did you see the excerpt I posted above from a book about this? Have you experienced anything bad with progesterone medications yourself?

 

Yes, I did read the excerpt.  Very enlightening.  It helped me understand why I could not use progesterone.  I had a paradoxical reaction to it, which maybe was a good thing because I had no idea there was a withdrawal syndrome from quitting.  I only used it a couple times before I realized it was not helping and only hurting me.

 

Yeah -- I tried the progesterone prescribed to me by a functional doctor made by a compound pharmacy and it caused really crazy symptoms for me. I think there are many women here in withdrawal who are also on birth control pills -- it could be making their withdrawal worse and they don't even know it.

[[12...]]

Hello, i am a female , i am 25 years old, i have checked my hormones, estrogen, testosterone and progesterone. It showed i have too low progesterone. What to do about this situation? Is it worth it going on hormones? Or maybe other alternatives? Been off benzos for almost 2 years

 

[[sa...]]

Hello, i am a female , i am 25 years old, i have checked my hormones, estrogen, testosterone and progesterone. It showed i have too low progesterone. What to do about this situation? Is it worth it going on hormones? Or maybe other alternatives? Been off benzos for almost 2 years

 

There are nutrient and herb supplements that can help balance your hormones.  Progesterone can cause a lot of trouble. 

[[12...]]

Could you explain further like what kind of supplements?

[[sa...]]

Could you explain further like what kind of supplements?

 

For me what helped was a supplement called calcium d-glucarate.  It helps you to detox excess hormones, which helps to balance you out.  Others have had success with things like maca root, vitex, or black cohosh.  Those are all very potent herbs, so do your own research.  I can't take the herbs, too sensitive. 

[[Te...]]

Could you explain further like what kind of supplements?

 

For me what helped was a supplement called calcium d-glucarate.  It helps you to detox excess hormones, which helps to balance you out.  Others have had success with things like maca root, vitex, or black cohosh.  Those are all very potent herbs, so do your own research.  I can't take the herbs, too sensitive.

 

I can't take any herbs or supplements either and I have severe chemical sensitivity. Ugh....

[[sa...]]

Could you explain further like what kind of supplements?

 

For me what helped was a supplement called calcium d-glucarate.  It helps you to detox excess hormones, which helps to balance you out.  Others have had success with things like maca root, vitex, or black cohosh.  Those are all very potent herbs, so do your own research.  I can't take the herbs, too sensitive.

 

I can't take any herbs or supplements either and I have severe chemical sensitivity. Ugh....

 

Me too.  It was even worse during my benzo taper and a couple years after that.  It was so bad it ruined relationships.  People just could not understand why I couldn't tolerate their fragrances.  It was so, so hard.

[Guest [...]]

Sage:

 

Did this get better or did it stay the same??

 

I can’t handle any smells, literally none.

Can’t even go for a walk on Sat/Sun, as people are doing their laundry!

 

When they gave me Ativan for 5 weeks in the hospital 15 years ago, while on bed rest with my 2 child, I remember going through this but it went away.

 

I don’t see this going away??

My allergist and asthma dr says it gets worse with age and as hormones change.

 

Just hoping it will get better….

 

Winnie

[[sa...]]

Sage:

 

Did this get better or did it stay the same??

 

I can’t handle any smells, literally none.

Can’t even go for a walk on Sat/Sun, as people are doing their laundry!

 

When they gave me Ativan for 5 weeks in the hospital 15 years ago, while on bed rest with my 2 child, I remember going through this but it went away.

 

I don’t see this going away??

My allergist and asthma dr says it gets worse with age and as hormones change.

 

Just hoping it will get better….

 

Winnie

 

Not all better, but it improved a lot.  I did the Gupta Program and EFT tapping to help lower the sensitivity level.

[[Ke...]]

Hi Everyone, I am new here. I got badly kindled from an antidepressant withdrawal reinstatement and since then have been in a very bad way and put on benzos to cope with the severe mental symptoms - I have been in acute for 3 years now and still not off last of the AD. What I have noticed is about 2 years ago I started to get what I thought were windows of healing in my second AD taper but they would only happen during the luteal phase of my cycle. (I am perimenopausal and high estrogen) it happened several months in a row and then I realised that they were not windows of healing but my own progesterone somehow alleviating my mental symptoms for a few days or a week but then I would crash into hell after my period and for the next 2 weeks. Some months perhaps when i dont ovulate, I dont get the progesterone window and its just hell all the way through.

 

My question is - if progesterone is cross tolerant to benzos - why is it I feel so much better when I have high progesterone? Or does the cross tolerance only refer to external progesterone? I feel like there must be a key somewhere here - if my own progesterone can make my symptoms so much better - but I tried progesterone tablets from the doc - took one and felt catatonic within an hour and I have tried progesterone cream but only ever taken it 3 days in a row as get too scared that its going to make things worse.

 

I just dont know what to do anymore? I cant keep going into these dark desperate holes every month that seem to be getting even worse the lower I go on the AD and I have to take more benzos just to survive it- its just a perpetual circle and although the windows are welcome I also dread them as I know the crash when my hormones fall is going to be 10x as bad.

 

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

[[Te...]]

Hi Everyone, I am new here. I got badly kindled from an antidepressant withdrawal reinstatement and since then have been in a very bad way and put on benzos to cope with the severe mental symptoms - I have been in acute for 3 years now and still not off last of the AD. What I have noticed is about 2 years ago I started to get what I thought were windows of healing in my second AD taper but they would only happen during the luteal phase of my cycle. (I am perimenopausal and high estrogen) it happened several months in a row and then I realised that they were not windows of healing but my own progesterone somehow alleviating my mental symptoms for a few days or a week but then I would crash into hell after my period and for the next 2 weeks. Some months perhaps when i dont ovulate, I dont get the progesterone window and its just hell all the way through.

 

My question is - if progesterone is cross tolerant to benzos - why is it I feel so much better when I have high progesterone? Or does the cross tolerance only refer to external progesterone? I feel like there must be a key somewhere here - if my own progesterone can make my symptoms so much better - but I tried progesterone tablets from the doc - took one and felt catatonic within an hour and I have tried progesterone cream but only ever taken it 3 days in a row as get too scared that its going to make things worse.

 

I just dont know what to do anymore? I cant keep going into these dark desperate holes every month that seem to be getting even worse the lower I go on the AD and I have to take more benzos just to survive it- its just a perpetual circle and although the windows are welcome I also dread them as I know the crash when my hormones fall is going to be 10x as bad.

 

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

 

This all makes sense to me -- you can't take progesterone from another source but your body's production of it does make you feel better. This is the case for me as well. I am horrendous at the time of PMS when progesterone drops.  My taper is drastically affected by my hormonal cycle. I have tried progesterone from a functional doctor who prescribed it through a compound pharmacy, swore it was naturally based -- and I still have a severe reaction to it, similar to you. Out bodies need to fix itself and depends on it's own inner workings. There is nothing you can externally contribute to its process in terms of medication or supplementation unfortunately.

[[Mi...]]

History

Due to burnout less than 2 years ago I have been placed on medication. Currently taking:

Mirtazapine 15mg

Imipramine 75mg

Diazepam 11.5mg (was reducing)

Temazepam 10mg

(Before burnout I never took any meds)

 

Been on pop (cerezette) for 10+ years

 

GP placed me on HRT - Evorel Sequi - based on slightly raised FSH level and to try to address low mood - but I had no other menopausal symptoms in April 2021.

 

This means I am taking 2 weeks estrogen and 2 weeks progesterone by patch.

 

I see and feel no difference in taking the patches but at the end of each cycle of progesterone I appear to be having increased anxiety and/or a dip in mood.

 

I have read that benzos and progesterone affect the same gaba receptors in your brain and that progesterone is cross tolerant with benzos.

 

I feel like I would like to stop the patches.

I believe however that stopping the patches completely could create an effect similar to a benzo withdrawal due to my other medications.

 

What would be the safest way to proceed?

 

Many thanks

[[he...]]

I was on the combined birth control pill and quit half a year ago to see if it could improve an ear problem (didnt really). In this pill free time I started klonopin given by ENT (also for said ear problem, also didnt help), then I quit cold turkey after 3 weeks on klonopin because I had not idea about tapering. Then lots of withdrawal and now 10 weeks off still significant insomnia and anxiety. In week 9 off I re-started the pill because my cycles were horrendous (one of the reasons I started before and on the pill cycles were calm). I also have a brca2 mutation and increased risk for ovarian cancer and the pill reduces the risk.

 

Now I am freaking out that the progesterone in the pill will slow down/stop healing my gaba receptors. But I kinda NEED to be on the pill for so many other health reasons. I have no idea where I can ask advise, my doctors have no idea and when I read science papers I just freak myself out. I kinda want to know I am going to be ok on the pill and will still heal.

[[12...]]

Hello, so im low in progesterone and im planning to start bio identical progesterone therapy, ill see how it will go, but my question is if i can drink alcohol while on progesterone? Does anyone know the mechanisms between these two? I wonder if ill get anxiety after alcohol consumption if i take progesterone? Are they cross tolerant?

[[ol...]]

I was going to write my success story soon. I’ve been off for 15 months now. I was fine. I got better and better every day I was off the poison. I had a hysterectomy and my Dr said try bio identical compounded cream. I took a total of 4 applications and was plunged into withdrawal hell. Since I stepped off I have had major surgery, major dental work, several rounds of antibiotics and I have been fine. Only 4 doses of progesterone did me in. This better resolve soon. I did a 5 year taper. I never thought I would feel that way again 

[[Mi...]]

I was going to write my success story soon. I’ve been off for 15 months now. I was fine. I got better and better every day I was off the poison. I had a hysterectomy and my Dr said try bio identical compounded cream. I took a total of 4 applications and was plunged into withdrawal hell. Since I stepped off I have had major surgery, major dental work, several rounds of antibiotics and I have been fine. Only 4 doses of progesterone did me in. This better resolve soon. I did a 5 year taper. I never thought I would feel that way again 

 

Just wanted to check in and see how yiu are doing?

[[Mi...]]

Anyone been on evorel sequi patches and came off while still on their benzo?

[[Mi...]]

Bump - any recent experiences out there please?