Suicidal Feelings - Not Handling Taper Well

[[or...]]

You all are great, thanks for the additional encouragment and cummulative wisdom of your experiences.  I would definitely not have made it this far in my taper if not for all of your continued support.

 

Getting ready to make my first cut again in the taper process, so I will do my best to arm myself with your survival suggestions and be ready for any chemical wierdness that may arise.

 

Also, I plan to incorporate the whey protein thing into my diet, I am hoping that will really help....

 

Thanks again, I'll keep in touch with you as I begin my dosage reduction again.....

[[ha...]]

Hi Orange8,

Good luck on this cut. I'm sure it will go well for you. Some may be harder, others not so much. The heavyness does lift. You gonna do great. I'm rooting for you Kel

[[su...]]

Orange,

 

I don't really watch TV but I love Sex and the City and it's a good distraction for some reason. Grocery shopping seems to work too. Hope you're doing ok.

[Guest [st...]]

Hi, Orange,

 

Wishing you the best.  Will keep an eye on you and offer support.

 

Patty  xo

[[sc...]]

You all are great, thanks for the additional encouragment and cummulative wisdom of your experiences.  I would definitely not have made it this far in my taper if not for all of your continued support.

 

Getting ready to make my first cut again in the taper process, so I will do my best to arm myself with your survival suggestions and be ready for any chemical wierdness that may arise.

 

Also, I plan to incorporate the whey protein thing into my diet, I am hoping that will really help....

 

Thanks again, I'll keep in touch with you as I begin my dosage reduction again.....

 

Hi Orange, you hang in there buddy. You are going to do just fine dude. When I first began my titration I found the anticipation of bad symptoms sometimes was worse than the actual symptoms...not all the time....but usually that was the case for me. I could totaly psych myself out thinking things would be horrible...the symptoms usually did not turn out that bad though.

 

You are going to do great. I can feel it!

[[su...]]

^Exactly. I've definitely noticed a huge improvement when I don't feed into the mindset. It disappears much quicker. That's a tough technique to learn and you are doing great so far!

[[or...]]

I think I am heading towards manic again, and this started happening before my 1st reduced dose of 68 ml last night. I have been on liquid titration program dosing at 69 ml (.345mg Klono) for roughly 2 weeks until last night.

 

I noticed last night prior to my 1st reduced dose at 68 ml Klono that I was super-energetic, feeling mild euphoria and having super sharp thoughts, roughly 11:30 PM ( I took my 1st nightly reduced dose of 68 ml at 1:00 AM).

 

As I was drifting off to sleep (which took awhile) various wierd images were flashing through my mind, along with wierd sounds and sensations.  Like my mind was on overdrive and couldn't slow down.

 

This morning, my mind was (and is ) racing; I feel like ants crawling over my body, super-sensitive to any physical stimuli (including a simple shower) and am finding that I am having a few involuntary movements, like an arm repeatingly swinging in a circle.  Also have to really control the urge to grab and squeeze things, clenching my jaw, as my body feels like a race car (go go go) and the urge to contract muscles is overwhelming.  Hard to sit still at all.  My GI tract is also cramping up a bit. 

 

As I have been at .345 mg for the last 5 weeks (the last 2 weeks at 69 ml / .345mg when titration program was started) I don't understand why my mind and body are acting like they are suddenly and completely starving of the Klononpin.  Please remember, these manic symptoms started before my first titration last night (4 - 5 hours prior to my 1:00 AM reduced dose) .  I am stumped.  I have no history of any type of Bipolar or manic-depressive type of disorder, so I don't know what's going on.

 

What's wrong with my brain?

[[Ki...]]

As I was drifting off to sleep (which took awhile) various wierd images were flashing through my mind, along with wierd sounds and sensations.  Like my mind was on overdrive and couldn't slow down.

 

This morning, my mind was (and is ) racing; I feel like ants crawling over my body, super-sensitive to any physical stimuli (including a simple shower) and am finding that I am having a few involuntary movements, like an arm repeatingly swinging in a circle.  Also have to really control the urge to grab and squeeze things, clenching my jaw, as my body feels like a race car (go go go) and the urge to contract muscles is overwhelming.  Hard to sit still at all.  My GI tract is also cramping up a bit. 

 

As I have been at .345 mg for the last 5 weeks (the last 2 weeks at 69 ml / .345mg when titration program was started) I don't understand why my mind and body are acting like they are suddenly and completely starving of the Klononpin.  Please remember, these manic symptoms started before my first titration last night (4 - 5 hours prior to my 1:00 AM reduced dose) .  I am stumped.  I have no history of any type of Bipolar or manic-depressive type of disorder, so I don't know what's going on.

 

What's wrong with my brain?

 

I had these same sensations when tapering.  I got those same strange images flashing through my mind and just as I would finally fall asleep, if I was lucky, another would ZOOOOOOM into my mind and jolt me awake. This continued over and over and over.  It was very unsettling. But it DOES go away. I had the weird sounds and sensations, too. I also felt like I was going to jump out of my skin. It isn't an easy feeling to describe.

 

Rest assured, this is all caused by w/d. It can be frightening, but it does go away. You will be fine. Relax and know that this is not "you", but is a w/d symptom. You will be fine, and it WILL go away.

 

[[Co...]]

Hi Orange,

 

How's your sleep been recently? Lack of sleep can make people feel manic sometimes. I don't think it is really like mania, but I certainly have felt like this after I've been seriously sleep deprived for some time.

 

To reassure you, as i understand it, bipolar disorder cycles over months or very many weeks at least. How you feel would not change from day-to-day or every few days.

[[ha...]]

Hi Orange,

I have to say I agree with Colin. I work with someone who is Bi-Polar. Many people in her family are also. Her cycles always start out slowly and build over time. Never sudden. It's gotten to where I can see the build up. It's little things until a major surge. It's never a daily thing or an instant thing. I would say you are having w/d. It will pass. try your best to try to calm yourself. Kel

[[or...]]

Again, thank you all over these last days for doing a little hand-holding with me.  The continual reassurances and encouragment from all of you makes all the difference.

 

Glad to know others have experienced the weird random imagery/sounds precluding sleep at night.  Like a mild acid trip!!

 

Better still was the assurance that I am in fact not bipolar.  That is a relief, as I sometimes definitely feel bipolar as I progress through my taper.  What a ride! Thank you.

 

Currently am starting my 3rd day at reduced dose of 68 ml.  I feel mildly euphoric and a little stimulated, so I will have to remember that my brain chemistry will be a little tweaked.  Guess I better get used to it for awhile.

 

Colin, I will be assessing how I react to a 1ml taper every 4 - 5 days as opposed to every two days per my original schedule; as I gauge my reactions over the coming week, I will know more about a better taper rate for me and can then come back to you and request a modified taper schedule?

 

Also, could someone instruct me on how to attach my entire taper history to my signature? 

 

Thanks again fellow benzo buddies....

[[Be...]]

To add tapering info to your signature box:

 

Click on 'Profile' in the green bar below the shoutbox. Then under 'modify profile' in the left hand column, click on 'forum profile information'. From that page, scroll down almost to the bottom and type in your info in the signature box. Make sure and click 'change profile' at the bottom. And that's it!

 

[[su...]]

I get that euphoric feeling too. I seem to crash a little afterwards. It's a lot better than it used to be while I taper. Just a w/d symptom. 

 

Hope you're doing ok, glad to see you posting.

[Guest [st...]]

Hi, Orange,

 

Withdrawing from benzos is a wild ride for sure.  Glad you are posting your concerns on the site.  Other members can then give you support and Lord only knows we all need that.  Yup, your symptoms are typical.  Most of us here have been there.  Hold on tight and keep up your determination and you will get through this nightmare.  Hugs to you.

 

Patty  xo

[[or...]]

Crap.  This is my third day at 66 ml, and I have returned to a state of mania and just around the corner from that dark overwhelming place where my dark thoughts are so energized that I go to the suicidal place inside myself. Scary.

 

To stablize, I have taken .125mg Klono tonight to calm down and regain control of my brain.  Much as I have tried to follow the advice of the Ashton manual as well as others within this site regarding no updosing, I have found that if I do not updose slightly when I hit these wierd periods, I put myself in danger, as my coping mechanisms for this mania is to go out and do really wild stuff and then to go into suicidal thoughts/feelings/ideation. 

 

Despite the ideas presented to me within this string regarding coping techniques during such overwhelming times, when I am in the brightness of mania or darkness of emotional overwhelm/suicide, I am like a deer frozen by headlighs; I am paralyzed, unable to act rationally or think clearly, and instead blindly react to the chemical whirlwind occurring in my brain.  Very very frustrating.  Again, prior to getting on the Klonopin, I have no history of any type of mania or bipolar disorder, just to be clear.

 

The liquid titatrion is not doing the job for me, and not sure why.  When I was dry-cutting and dropping dosages at greater amounts every 3 weeks than my current liquid titration schedule,  I had more insomnia and anxiety but never felt the emotional overwhelm/suicidal feelings that I have felt with the current liquid titration, even though the liquid titration is a much slower drop in dose.  It does not make sense.

 

The only conclusion I can reach is that my brain reacts better to bigger, sudden drops in dosage over 3 -4 weeks then very tiny drops in dosage but more frequently as is the case with the current liquid titration.  I know this goes against all reason, but I have no other explanation.

 

Colin and others, could I have some feedback?  The plan at this point is to go to the pharmacy tomorrow and pick up the next batch of compounded Klono capsules (.3125mg) and resume the compounding method, but I would sure like to hear from you guys and either validate my point of view or confirm that I am indeed insane. 

 

I am also concerned that if my recent mania is truly related to current drop in dosage (66ml / .330mg) and is not related to taper rate or delivery method, then I could really be walking into greater danger by suddenly dropping to .3125mg tomorrow night.

 

Thanks all

[[Th...]]

Hi orange8,

 

I would like to recommend that you hold your cutting again for a few days and see how you feel. When you start cutting again, you may want to try just 1/2 ml per day for a few weeks and see if that helps you at all before you decide to go back to dry cutting. I am sorry you are feeling this way. Do you have a doctor to talk to about your feelings? I hope it clears up for you so you can continue with your taper and maybe that would help your overall feelings once you are off the benzos.

 

 

T2

[[Be...]]

Crap.  This is my third day at 66 ml, and I have returned to a state of mania and just around the corner from that dark overwhelming place where my dark thoughts are so energized that I go to the suicidal place inside myself. Scary.

 

To stablize, I have taken .125mg Klono tonight to calm down and regain control of my brain.  Much as I have tried to follow the advice of the Ashton manual as well as others within this site regarding no updosing, I have found that if I do not updose slightly when I hit these wierd periods, I put myself in danger, as my coping mechanisms for this mania is to go out and do really wild stuff and then to go into suicidal thoughts/feelings/ideation. 

 

Despite the ideas presented to me within this string regarding coping techniques during such overwhelming times, when I am in the brightness of mania or darkness of emotional overwhelm/suicide, I am like a deer frozen by headlighs; I am paralyzed, unable to act rationally or think clearly, and instead blindly react to the chemical whirlwind occurring in my brain.  Very very frustrating.  Again, prior to getting on the Klonopin, I have no history of any type of mania or bipolar disorder, just to be clear.

 

The liquid titatrion is not doing the job for me, and not sure why.  When I was dry-cutting and dropping dosages at greater amounts every 3 weeks than my current liquid titration schedule,  I had more insomnia and anxiety but never felt the emotional overwhelm/suicidal feelings that I have felt with the current liquid titration, even though the liquid titration is a much slower drop in dose.  It does not make sense.

 

The only conclusion I can reach is that my brain reacts better to bigger, sudden drops in dosage over 3 -4 weeks then very tiny drops in dosage but more frequently as is the case with the current liquid titration.  I know this goes against all reason, but I have no other explanation.

 

Colin and others, could I have some feedback?  The plan at this point is to go to the pharmacy tomorrow and pick up the next batch of compounded Klono capsules (.3125mg) and resume the compounding method, but I would sure like to hear from you guys and either validate my point of view or confirm that I am indeed insane. 

 

I am also concerned that if my recent mania is truly related to current drop in dosage (66ml / .330mg) and is not related to taper rate or delivery method, then I could really be walking into greater danger by suddenly dropping to .3125mg tomorrow night.

 

Thanks all

orange8 

 

Double crap! I really don't know what to tell you.    I've never heard of the kind of stuff you are experiencing while doing titration.  It makes no sense to me.  My gut says if you have had a good luck with the larger cuts, try it that way once and see if you improve.  If somehow it gets worse, you can reinstate back to your previous dose.  It troubles me that you are still feeling manic.  I should go back and read the previous posts but I'll use a shortcut and just ask you: is the mania new with benzo withdrawal?

 

[[or...]]

Thank you both for your responses, to address your questions:

 

Theresa2, I do not really have a health care professional with which to discuss this topic; I have found that my PCP and even a pysch-related nurse practioner I have seen do not understand the taper methods discussed in this forum, and especially do not understand my acute sensitivity to very small changes in dosage.  Quite literally, they look as me like I am crazy.  I have found a list of doctors located across the country who specialize in benzo withdrawl (none in my state) so this might be an option I have to persue.

 

Beeper, your instinct is correct, the mania is a new phenomenon brought on by withdrawl from the Klono.  I have had no experiences with manic type of feelings prior to getting on the Klono.  I am stumped.  And I agree with you, my gut says go with the compounded capsule tomorrow night.

 

Further input is more than welcomed....

[[Th...]]

Thank you both for your responses, to address your questions:

 

Theresa2, I do not really have a health care professional with which to discuss this topic; I have found that my PCP and even a pysch-related nurse practioner I have seen do not understand the taper methods discussed in this forum, and especially do not understand my acute sensitivity to very small changes in dosage.  Quite literally, they look as me like I am crazy.  I have found a list of doctors located across the country who specialize in benzo withdrawl (none in my state) so this might be an option I have to persue.

 

Beeper, your instinct is correct, the mania is a new phenomenon brought on by withdrawl from the Klono.  I have had no experiences with manic type of feelings prior to getting on the Klono.  I am stumped.  And I agree with you, my gut says go with the compounded capsule tomorrow night.

 

Further input is more than welcomed....

 

Hi orange,

 

I, too, seem to be very sensitive to cutting. I had to slow my taper down to 1/4ml per day during a bout with low thyroid. After my thyroid stabilized, I continued cutting by only 1/4ml and experienced practically no w/d s/x. I have since increased back to 1/2ml per day and the only w/d s/x I have had is some bouts of fatigue. I have not read about anyone having this type of reaction to titration before. The only thing you can do is try different cutting options. Hang in there!

 

T2

[[or...]]

Feeling so down today; because of the slight updose I took last night (.125mg) in addition to my usual nightly dose (68ml or .34mg, I went back up in dosage 2 ml last night to try and stabilize)  I felt so drugged and awful this morning.  Everything is so black in my head.  Cannot think straight and very angry with myself for being weak and doing the updose last night, though it did stop that manic type of feeling that was pushing me over the edge which was the whole point of my updose.

 

I have tried so hard to do the right taper methods, and am feeling like I am not going to get out of this whole mess and be able to ever get free of the Klono.  I keep working so hard to taper precisely and slowly, only to keep falling down.  Nothing works for me.  It feels like right now that nothing is going to work. 

 

I'm angry with myself that I cannot be one of those people that can taper off my dosage level in several weeks (1've spoken to such people, they can cut by a quarter pill every 3-7 days with little side effect).  I wish I knew why my hard-wiring is so tweaked.

 

Got the compounded capsules this morning (.32mg) but who knows what is going to happen when I start dosing with them tonight.  It is so hit or miss that it can be spooky to just take a chance, and on top of that, even if the compounded capsules do work, there is plenty more insomnia and anxiety attacks to come.  Jesus, there is just no way out of this.....

 

 

[[ha...]]

Hi Orange,

I'm so sorry you are feeling so bad. Do you do any coping techs? Like meditation or visualization? Sometimes we can talk our selfs out of some of this, or atleast make it bearable. Our minds can do funny things, if we dwell on it too much we make it worse for ourselves. I know that deperate feeling you are talking about. The blackness that envelopes you. It did pass for me, but I really had to do alot of self talk. Almost like a crazy person, having both sides of a conversation. I looked like an idiot, but with time  I was able to calm myself. I don't know that I was manic, but I was extremely agitated. I'm praying for you. Kel

[[or...]]

Your kind words are appreciated, haljes, thank you.  I am less panicky and hopeless today although fairly sleep deprived from my first compounded dose at .32mg last night.

 

The self-talk option is a great suggestion, and may work well particularly for me.  I think a combination of that along with the suggestions of various forms of self-distraction found earlier in this string might be a combination that will get me through this.  I will certainly try it, thanks again.

[[Lo...]]

Hey orange8,

I am glad you are feeling less hopeless today. I read what you wrote yesterday and today. I know how hard this is. The worst thing we can do is to give up hope. Please don't. You will get thru this. Why is it taking longer for you, while other zip right through...I don't know, but just know that you might have to go slower or even go back up a bit like you did, but YOU are NOT a failure. You will be benzo free one day. As Petey says, get in touch with your inner snail. I like that! You can do this, so don't be so hard on yourself. You sound like you are your worst critic; I know, because I am mine! Just remember, it's not a race against anyone else. This is your journey and yes, sometimes it stinks, but you made the choice to be free from these benzos. You really are in control of this. Do the self talk, do something to keep busy, anything to take your mind off what you are feeling. I have been in the dark pit of depression and it can feel like that darkness will never pass....but it will. The light will break thru again. Did you notice that on both Sept 5th and Oct 5th you felt the same way??? It's a pattern, and the pattern changes. I am sure you had some good days in that one month period and they will come again. And one day soon, when you are benzo free and healed, you are going to look back at what you have been thru and be a stronger person for it. I believe in you, orange8!!

 

Lori

[[or...]]

Great words of encouragement, thank you Lori Lee.  And you are right, I did have similar feelings back in early September. It jars me to have someone else point that out, but in a good way. Sort of kicks my mind back into gear.

 

I think what worries me is that when I am actually in that space of overwhelm and darkness, my intellect shuts down and it is very hard for me to remember that I have gone through this before and that it will pass.  My cognitive function seems to go out the window.  Thats when the self-destructive stuff comes in.

 

I really like the inner snail part, lol, my inner snail is slow even by slow standards!  Great wisdom, thank you.

 

Do I need to leave this sub-board now that I am trying compounding method?  If this method does not work then I fully plan to return to titration (Theresa2 had some great additional suggestions that I will use if I need to go back to titration) but wanted to give this a week before determining if compounding is better for me....

[[Be...]]

Great words of encouragement, thank you Lori Lee.  And you are right, I did have similar feelings back in early September. It jars me to have someone else point that out, but in a good way. Sort of kicks my mind back into gear.

 

I think what worries me is that when I am actually in that space of overwhelm and darkness, my intellect shuts down and it is very hard for me to remember that I have gone through this before and that it will pass.  My cognitive function seems to go out the window.  Thats when the self-destructive stuff comes in.

You might want to start a Progress Log, orange. Post in it every day or so about what's going on, how you feel, thoughts, etc. and then you have something to look back on during those confusing days.  I remember feeling unable to decide anything, like the proverbial deer in headlights.  It helped to have a bit of a map from the past to get me through.

I really like the inner snail part, lol, my inner snail is slow even by slow standards!  Great wisdom, thank you.

 

Do I need to leave this sub-board now that I am trying compounding method?  If this method does not work then I fully plan to return to titration (Theresa2 had some great additional suggestions that I will use if I need to go back to titration) but wanted to give this a week before determining if compounding is better for me....

You can stay here, orange.  It's all on the Planning Your Taper board and you are still doing that.  The main reason people post here is to get a titration schedule but there's no reason you have to move.