Depressed, Bored, Tired from Taper

[[Kh...]]

Just need to vent... Thanks for listening.   The Valium and this taper process is exhausting me - and its only been 2-3 months.  Lots of respect for folks that have been going thru this a lot longer.     I am tired, have no motivation, sleep a lot and lay around all day.  Watch way too much TV and depressing news.  Back aches from too much time in bed.  Tinnitus ringing non stop.  Aural fullness.  Getting edgy with my loving and supportive wife ugh. Same as many of you, I know and can appreciate.   Need to get out of the house!!  I know this is on me to do, just have low energy.  Valiums effects different than Xanax it seems.  

Even at 3 mg it seems like a lot of drug at the moment and the small cut and holds seem arduous and it just doesn't seem like progress.   I understand its a journey and mine is shorter than most, but it still sucks.  I am down from around 20mg (1mg Xanax)  - not really sure it was all a blur for a while.   

All that said --- Taper going well.  Down to 3.33mg Valium.  Can see the end near - maybe 30-45 days out if I stay to the schedule.  I am looking to get to 1mg and jump from there.  Love to speed up but I keep hearing slow and steady wins.  Sure hope it goes to plan as I feel crappy.

Kit  

Edited December 19, 2023 by [Kh...]

[[Th...]]

This is a good place to vent.  Your taper seems very fast if you're down from 20mg of Valium (which is 2mg Xanax equivalent) in 3 months?  I did not taper, so I don't have any experience there, but I do know the Ashton manual recommends a much slower taper.  Valium has a very long half life.  Xanax a very short half life so even though they do the same thing when it comes to GABA receptors, the effects of Valium last a lot longer.

[[Kh...]]

48 minutes ago, [[T...] said:

This is a good place to vent.  Your taper seems very fast if you're down from 20mg of Valium (which is 2mg Xanax equivalent) in 3 months?  I did not taper, so I don't have any experience there, but I do know the Ashton manual recommends a much slower taper.  Valium has a very long half life.  Xanax a very short half life so even though they do the same thing when it comes to GABA receptors, the effects of Valium last a lot longer.

Yea sometimes a good vent is in order.  It also helps us to convince ourselves we need to try a little harder to cope with it all.  Thanks for input 🙏.  My history shows my progress.  Don’t think I was as high as 20mg V to start.  Anyway,  I crossed over pretty easily from Xanax been tapering from around 10-15 mg Valium since early October. (My understanding is 1 mg Xanax is 20mg Valium.  I was on a bit less than 1 mg X.    Was going for a 16 week taper - seemed doable even per Ashton…think I’m on track, should not be too quick.  Ashton says I can go down in 1 mg increments from here but I think I’ll go a little slower. Gonna stretch out the last 3 mg over 30-40 days.  Wish me luck.  😊

https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

Edited December 19, 2023 by [Kh...]

[[To...]]

Super tired no energy as well. Try to do some exercise/walking here and there but seems to aggravate the cns. Even driving. Starting to get anxious to even leave the house am at 37.5 mg Valium. Not much hope that I’ll make it to be honest. This coming from a 36 yo male super fit active no feeling like a complete and utter vegetable. 

[[An...]]

Hang in there Kit. I agree with the slow and steady btw. I also hope to finish up in the first quarter of 2024.

Fingers crossed for both of us. 🤞

[[An...]]

28 minutes ago, [[T...] said:

Super tired no energy as well. Try to do some exercise/walking here and there but seems to aggravate the cns. Even driving. Starting to get anxious to even leave the house am at 37.5 mg Valium. Not much hope that I’ll make it to be honest. This coming from a 36 yo male super fit active no feeling like a complete and utter vegetable. 

You will make it Tony with the help of your online benzobuddies. We are all in this together. Did you crossover to valium from another benzo? I will admit. The benzo w/d process is demoralizing. It is like you are in a life-and-death struggle with this powerful invisible enemy who beats the hell out of you daily but has not killed you yet.

[[To...]]

46 minutes ago, [[A...] said:

Did you crossover to valium from another benzo?

I did was on multiple mg of Ativan and klonopin at one point around this time last year daily. Was on about 2mg klonopin with the occasional 1mg Ativan experiencing what I believe what was interdose withdrawal before crossing over. Most around me think that I am just provoking myself thinking about the job loss and eventual loss of a long term relationship that got me on the meds in the first place. Can’t manage the depression and withdrawal at the same time. Don’t know which is which really. And can’t help myself but to just be half dead the whole day watching my body and mind deteriorate. 

its hard for me to decipher from most of these threads. What percentage of people are actually able to do anything remotely close to the day to day i.e. take care of themselves and their home, work, socialize etc under their circumstances - which for the most part sound horrible?

Is there a percentage of folk who just stop and are ok and never make it to benzo buddies ?

Edited December 20, 2023 by [To...]

[[Kh...]]

1 hour ago, [[A...] said:

You will make it Tony with the help of your online benzobuddies. We are all in this together. Did you crossover to valium from another benzo? I will admit. The benzo w/d process is demoralizing. It is like you are in a life-and-death struggle with this powerful invisible enemy who beats the hell out of you daily but has not killed you yet.

It is killing me...feel like giving up a lot.  Don't understand why so many things have gone haywire in my body all at once.  Tried to play golf today - neck was so stiff it was a painful day.  Dont know if I am harming myself by pushing physical exercise or what?  Sick of just sitting around watching TV.  My only saving grace is a loving wife.  LIke Tony I was a fit guy just 6 months ago, now all of a sudden I seem useless.  I am 59 but was plenty active, now just tight aching muscles.  Wonder if it eventually goes away?  Seems like I am on such a small dose it should (and really started from a pretty low dose) how can it have such a damaging affect.  Dont get it ugh.

[[Kh...]]

1 minute ago, [[K...] said:

It is killing me...feel like giving up a lot.  Don't understand why so many things have gone haywire in my body all at once.  Tried to play golf today - neck was so stiff it was a painful day.  Dont know if I am harming myself by pushing physical exercise or what?  Sick of just sitting around watching TV.  My only saving grace is a loving wife.  LIke Tony I was a fit guy just 6 months ago, now all of a sudden I seem useless.  I am 59 but was plenty active, now just tight aching muscles.  Wonder if it eventually goes away?  Seems like I am on such a small dose it should (and really started from a pretty low dose) how can it have such a damaging affect.  Dont get it ugh.

Oh and I worked an entire career to save money and now that I am retired not able to enjoy it...What a shit show.

[[Kh...]]

4 hours ago, [[A...] said:

Hang in there Kit. I agree with the slow and steady btw. I also hope to finish up in the first quarter of 2024.

Fingers crossed for both of us. 🤞

Thanks friend.  Rooting for both of us.  Are u cutting at 10% ish even at lower levels?  Ashton implies 1mg cuts at these lower levels can be done...I am not sure ?

[[Th...]]

It does get better.  It just takes time (more time than we'd like) for it to turn a corner.  However, it is a very non-linear process, very up and down that seems like 1 step forward then 3 steps back most of the time.  I thought I'd never heal either, but I did.  IMO, there's no such thing as a "small dose" of a Benzo as they all down regulate GABA receptors that are located throughout your body with the most being in the brain and GI tract.  Damaged or destroyed GABA receptors take time to heal and cause ALL of your symptoms.  There is no way to speed up the healing process.  Time is the healer.  Your body knows exactly how to fix the TEMPORARY damage.  GABA receptors need lots of time to heal and/or regrow.  Hang in there.  Each passing day brings you one day closer to being healed.

[[An...]]

8 hours ago, [[K...] said:

Oh and I worked an entire career to save money and now that I am retired not able to enjoy it...What a shit show.

I know exactly how you feel and share the same sentiment my friend. The golden years are anything but golden for some of us. Hopefully, we can both get off this crap one day and fully recover so we can start to enjoy life w/o the stress of having to work anymore.

[[Ed...]]

Hey, @[Kh...] and @[To...],

Can I copy from you guys' posts for my "status update" in my profile? You two have already written such perfect descriptions of how I feel most of the day, every day now, that I wouldn't have to exhaust myself any more badly by actually having to think and type for myself.

14 hours ago, [[A...] said:

It is like you are in a life-and-death struggle with this powerful invisible enemy who beats the hell out of you daily but has not killed you yet.

Now that's one hilariously apt metaphor (or is it simile?),@[An...]!!! I'm laughing somewhere in my mind, but I'm too wiped out to move my mouth or diaphragm that much.

Thanks @[Th...], for holding up the torch of hope for us, for proving this can be overcome. I'm so far from where you are in this fight that you're like a mythological hero.

Okay, I've been up for 8 hours today - way too long - see you tomorrow....

[[Kh...]]

5 hours ago, [[E...] said:

Hey, @[Kh...] and @[To...],

Can I copy from you guys' posts for my "status update" in my profile? You two have already written such perfect descriptions of how I feel most of the day, every day now, that I wouldn't have to exhaust myself any more badly by actually having to think and type for myself.

Now that's one hilariously apt metaphor (or is it simile?),@[An...]!!! I'm laughing somewhere in my mind, but I'm too wiped out to move my mouth or diaphragm that much.

Thanks @[Th...], for holding up the torch of hope for us, for proving this can be overcome. I'm so far from where you are in this fight that you're like a mythological hero.

Okay, I've been up for 8 hours today - way too long - see you tomorrow....

Of course use whatever verbiage makes sense for yo.  Hoping for speedy recovery for us all.  🙏

Edited December 21, 2023 by [Kh...]

[[Ed...]]

Of course I was kidding - but just wanted to let you both know that I deeply empathize with you in every misery you mention. Thank you for venting so openly here - misery loves company (that understands and shares) - it's reassuring for us all to be reminded and stay conscious of the fact that we're not alone in suffering through this s***. That's what makes BB a wonderful place to come to...and "dump" what you're suffering. A better saying, I guess, is "a grief shared is half a grief" - I felt that reading your posts. And I too hope and pray for rapid healing for us all. 🙏

 

[[An...]]

1 hour ago, [[E...] said:

Of course I was kidding - but just wanted to let you both know that I deeply empathize with you in every misery you mention. Thank you for venting so openly here - misery loves company (that understands and shares) - it's reassuring for us all to be reminded and stay conscious of the fact that we're not alone in suffering through this s***. That's what makes BB a wonderful place to come to...and "dump" what you're suffering. A better saying, I guess, is "a grief shared is half a grief" - I felt that reading your posts. And I too hope and pray for rapid healing for us all. 🙏

Ditto!  👍

[[Kh...]]

🙏👌👍

[[Kh...]]

oops meant to quote

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by [Kh...]

[[Kh...]]

18 hours ago, [[T...] said:

It does get better.  It just takes time (more time than we'd like) for it to turn a corner.  However, it is a very non-linear process, very up and down that seems like 1 step forward then 3 steps back most of the time.  I thought I'd never heal either, but I did.  IMO, there's no such thing as a "small dose" of a Benzo as they all down regulate GABA receptors that are located throughout your body with the most being in the brain and GI tract.  Damaged or destroyed GABA receptors take time to heal and cause ALL of your symptoms.  There is no way to speed up the healing process.  Time is the healer.  Your body knows exactly how to fix the TEMPORARY damage.  GABA receptors need lots of time to heal and/or regrow.  Hang in there.  Each passing day brings you one day closer to being healed.

 

Understand - but if it is just time that is the healer wouldn't it make sense to jump off at the earliest opportunity?  Or do you and others still advocate 10% reductions to the end?  10% cuts when at 3mg just seems to extend the taper sooooo long.  

Prof Ashton indicated a 1 mg reduction every 1-2 weeks at these levels.  I am confused 

 

 

[[Th...]]

The theory of a slow taper is that it might be possible to avoid an intense withdrawal with lots of symptoms and insomnia.  However, in my experience, I have not seen that happen on a regular basis?  I remember one person (Chessplayer) that is no longer on this forum, he did a slow (over one year taper) and had very little to no symptoms and no insomnia. 

It's up to you to decide what is best for you.  I did a CT at the recommendation of my doctor.  It wasn't easy, but IMO, it put me on the road to recovery sooner.  I have no way of knowing how a slow taper would have affected my withdrawal? The main concern for a CT is the risk of a seizure.  If you're down to 3mg of Valium, then jumping is a personal choice that you have to make or decide to continue with your taper.  I never tapered so I don't have any experience that I can share with you.   Good luck. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by [Th...]

[[An...]]

@[Kh...]

Here is what happened to me when I jumped from 2.5 mgs of Valium during my last detox attempt. Immediately after I stopped, I felt crummy but my SXs were not intolerable. Then on day 14 of no valium, all hell broke loose. Things just kept getting worse and worse after that which was what eventually led me to reinstate. Things are a lot better this time. I am tapering in .5 mg increments at 3-4 week intervals and I am feeling much better, plus I am still able to sleep and exercise and I haven't lost my appetite like I did from the 2.5 mg jump. I am currently at 1.5 mgs. In approx. one month, I will make another .5 mg cut. I will jump from approx. .5 mgs this time and hopefully have a successful long-term recovery outcome. I surmise I did not get hammered right away from my 2.5 mg jump bc of valium's long half-life. Good luck with whatever you decide. Hopefully, these anecdotal stories will help you with your decision-making.

Edited December 21, 2023 by [An...]
addition

[[Kh...]]

7 minutes ago, [[A...] said:

@[Kh...]

Here is what happened to me when I jumped from 2.5 mgs of Valium during my last detox attempt. Immediately after I stopped, I felt crummy but my SXs were not intolerable. Then on day 14 of no valium, all hell broke loose. Things just kept getting worse and worse after that which was what eventually led me to reinstate. Things are a lot better this time. I am tapering in .5 mg increments at 3-4 week intervals and I am feeling much better, plus I am still able to sleep and exercise and I haven't lost my appetite like I did from the 2.5 mg jump. I am currently at 1.5 mgs. In approx. one month, I will make another .5 mg cut. I will jump from approx. .5 mgs this time and hopefully have a successful long-term recovery outcome. I surmise I did not get hammered right away from my 2.5 mg jump bc of valium's long half-life. Good luck with whatever you decide. Hopefully, these anecdotal stories will help you with your decision-making.

Right on!  Great info thanks.   My plan was to go at 1 mg.  Could get down to .5  and jump. —  no reason not to.  I am in Asia and plan to go back to CA early Feb was hoping to be complete, but if I have a little more to go, it would be ok to finish in CA.  still a decision to make,  But I have been cutting around 10 day intervals- amount depending on how I am feeling.  And the pill increments to be honest.    But as each cut occurs and I don’t experience any issues after week or so it seems like I can cut again.  But I hear you on the slow and cautious approach.  Taking the 3 mg or so at night isn’t a big deal, helps with sleep.  And cutting nighttime dose  is so easy.  Only concern at the moment is a stiff neck had it over 6 weeks now.  Seeing PT tomorrow.   Appreciate the input.  🙏

[[Kh...]]

35 minutes ago, [[T...] said:

The theory of a slow taper is that it might be possible to avoid an intense withdrawal with lots of symptoms and insomnia.  However, in my experience, I have not seen that happen on a regular basis?  I remember one person (Chessplayer) that is no longer on this forum, he did a slow (over one year taper) and had very little to no symptoms and no insomnia. 

It's up to you to decide what is best for you.  I did a CT at the recommendation of my doctor.  It wasn't easy, but IMO, it put me on the road to recovery sooner.  I have no way of knowing how a slow taper would have affected my withdrawal? The main concern for a CT is the risk of a seizure.  If you're down to 3mg of Valium, then jumping is a personal choice that you have to make or decide to continue with your taper.  I never tapered so I don't have any experience that I can share with you.   Good luck. 

Thank you for your help - much appreciated.

[[To...]]

On 20/12/2023 at 07:10, [[T...] said:

It does get better.  It just takes time (more time than we'd like) for it to turn a corner.  However, it is a very non-linear process, very up and down that seems like 1 step forward then 3 steps back most of the time.  I thought I'd never heal either, but I did.  IMO, there's no such thing as a "small dose" of a Benzo as they all down regulate GABA receptors that are located throughout your body with the most being in the brain and GI tract.  Damaged or destroyed GABA receptors take time to heal and cause ALL of your symptoms.  There is no way to speed up the healing process.  Time is the healer.  Your body knows exactly how to fix the TEMPORARY damage.  GABA receptors need lots of time to heal and/or regrow.  Hang in there.  Each passing day brings you one day closer to being healed.

Therefore more damage is being done during the tapering process ?

[[wi...]]

Muscles are still very stiff and sore after 8mos off Valium.

It comes and goes but mostly comes.

No umph or stamina. 
 

Baths, PT and massage only help temporarily.

Cannot tolerate OTC pain relievers or supplements.

Acupuncture is helpful, especially if you’re in Asia I would jump on the opportunity.

i felt better after a few months off, but started getting slammed hard about 5 1/2 months in.

any one here get that vibration or current throughout their body?