Desperate, please help. Insomnia - updose?

[[Za...]]

I have horrible insomnia that has been going on for months, even pre benzo.

It is becoming a crisis.. my brain doesn’t work. I have nights with 3 hours, 2 hours.. sometimes 5. I have trazodone, it stops working, anxiety is through the roof.

My doctor wants to put me on Ambien or updose Klonopin. I am scared to add Ambien or to raise Klonopin and add it to trazodone.

I can also try to raise trazodone - again! (Happened last week).

What should I do? Please help.

[[je...]]

Hi Zazie

 

Insomnia is a very common problem here. I've had insomnia now for over 2 years since I started my taper. A good night will be 3 hours uninterrupted sleep. A bad night will be 2-3 hours broken sleep.

 

Unfortunately it's just something we have to learn to accept. There's no short cuts out of it. I personally don't believe in taking drugs for sleep. I feel it's just a vicious cycle. But we all need to do what we need to in order to get through this so I understand if someone needs to try pills to get some relief. I have also tried the odd OTC when I was desperate without any luck.

 

Please do  not use Ambien. It's a Z-drug but very similar to benzo's and it works the same as benzo's. You'll just be substituting your benzo with another.

 

Raising Klonopin is not going to solve the problem. When you start tapering and reduce it, you'll have the same problem again. I'm not familiar with Trazodone but I know some members use it.

 

Unfortunately this journey is brutal and sometimes we just have to buckle down and go through it.

 

You can read this thread, it has helped many people  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=235100.0

 

I hope it gives some insight and support.

[[ia...]]

I have horrible insomnia that has been going on for months, even pre benzo.

It is becoming a crisis.. my brain doesn’t work. I have nights with 3 hours, 2 hours.. sometimes 5. I have trazodone, it stops working, anxiety is through the roof.

My doctor wants to put me on Ambien or updose Klonopin. I am scared to add Ambien or to raise Klonopin and add it to trazodone.

I can also try to raise trazodone - again! (Happened last week).

What should I do? Please help.

 

Hi Z,

I know how awful this insomnia is. I'm so sorry for your suffering. Sleep is so important, and it has gone out the door for most of us as a result of the benzos.

 

My thoughts are based upon my personal experience and it’s to remember everyone’s experience varies.  It appears from your signature you’ve been on Benzos since March, correct? Given that you have been on .25 (and now tapering) for less than six months, I *think* your sleep will likely return in the next 90 days. (Again, this is based on my personal experience). In no way, shape or form am I minimizing your experience or symptoms. No matter the time/dose… there are immense challenges.

 

Prior to benzos, how much did you sleep on a good night? Were there things that helped you pre-benzos, besides medication? I have to agree with our Admin who is very well versed on the topic of sleep: I would really encourage you to try everything you can, besides medication, first, before up dosing or implementing a sleep aid. I want to explain why – from the most empathetic/respectful place:

 

For most of us when we started a Benzo, we were in an awful place and just needed ‘relief’. Fast forward to several months after we started taking a benzo, looking back, most of us, if given the option, knowing what we know now, we would likely turn down that benzo, if offered again. My deepest concern with up-dosing or implementing a sleep aid, is that in six months, you could be in a more compromising place than you are now. I know there isn’t an easy answer/solution for the suffering you’re experiencing.

 

I'm sure you're already doing all of the following, but just in case, let's talk about the 'low hanging fruit' regarding sleep. These are things that when executed consistently – have helped me get 5-7 hours during my taper (before implementing these, I was getting about 2-3 hours):

 

-Are you getting outside and going for walks? (I don't know how - but getting up with the sun and getting out early for walks has helped my sleep cycle TREMENDOUSLY throughout this process).

 

-Cutting sugar/coffee out of the diet. This was a big one for me. Again, helped tremendously.

 

-Melatonin. I use 5-10 mg an hour before bed. I use a sublingual under the tongue. At the same time I take

 

-Magnesium Oxide. I buy the ‘Horbaach’ brand off Amazon and THIS has been a life saver.

 

Many people argue that ‘no amount of sleep hygiene’ can influence sleep during WD. I respectfully disagree as I’ve seen a lot of success with all of the above – consistently during my WD.  Let us know how we can support you. Hang in there!

 

[[Za...]]

Thank you very much, Jelly and Audi.

I know sleep aids are bad. But I started trazodone (for sleep) before benzo and now I can’t stop, it is an antidepressant and it needs to be tapered. But I need to taper klonopin. I think they somehow interfere.

I had to stop tapering Klonopin because all the changes in other medication (lexapro stop, moving with trazodone dose)… I should stabilize. But I don’t stabilize, it is getting worse. I’ve been holding klonopin dose for 5 weeks now.

I would like to continue. But I am not stable. And I think that as I messed with trazodone dose (on doctors advice, going up and down) it gives me some withdrawal.

What should I do?

Thank you!

[[ia...]]

Thank you very much, Jelly and Audi.

I know sleep aids are bad. But I started trazodone (for sleep) before benzo and now I can’t stop, it is an antidepressant and it needs to be tapered. But I need to taper klonopin. I think they somehow interfere.

I had to stop tapering Klonopin because all the changes in other medication (lexapro stop, moving with trazodone dose)… I should stabilize. But I don’t stabilize, it is getting worse. I’ve been holding klonopin dose for 5 weeks now.

I would like to continue. But I am not stable. And I think that as I messed with trazodone dose (on doctors advice, going up and down) it gives me some withdrawal.

What should I do?

Thank you!

 

I empathize so deeply with your situation. You're trying to stabilize as best you can - you need sleep, but it sounds like the Trazodone is interfering? I have a couple follow up questions for you and forgive me if I'm asking a question you've already touched on (it's been a long day!):

 

1. When you say the Trazodone is interfering; is the concern that the Tarazadone is interfering with your benzo doze or benzo WD progress? Tell me a little more about this.

2. When you TAKE the Trazadone, are you getting ANY relief, or none?

3. Have you ever tried reducing the Trazadone? If yes, what happened?

4. When was the last time you raised your Trazadone and what transpired? Any symptoms – increased sleep or decreased?

Let’s start with these questions. Jelly Baby and or others may chime in more with your responses. I know you’re suffering. Hang in there – hold onto hope and know that YOUR BODY WILL HEAL. It will take time. But you will return to homeostasis. More to follow.

 

[[Za...]]

Thank you, Audi,

 

I think both. Trazodone shouldn’t be used with klonopin. It emphasizes the effect of both, makes you confused, unable to think. And as time passes and I still use both, I can see that this worsens. I have constant brain fog, don’t feel emotions, I am like a robot, I feel empty, can’t think. I can’t even meditate, relax - I can’t connect to myself. Horrible feeling. I was given trazodone by my doctor even before benzo for sleep. It puts me to sleep but only for 4 hours.

I quit lexapro 2 weeks ago and my doctor told me to up the trazodone dose. I went from 62 to 75 mg. Sleep was sometimes better, sometimes not but the brain fog was even worse. So I returned to 62.

I know it is bad to move around with the doses.

All the moderators here said I should hold the doses and stabilize. I do that. But it is not improving, I am afraid it is getting worse. I don’t know if I should continue holding or cut.. I’ve been 5 weeks on the same dose of klonopin and I am afraid of tolerance. On the other hand, I am not stable. How to recognize when to cut? It feels like poison, trazodone. But it also needs to be tapered.. I don’t know what to do.

[[ia...]]

Hi Zazie,

 

How did you sleep last night?

 

I know you're looking for some direction and solution - and I wish I had a concrete solution for you. I sense that given how sleep deprived and awful you’re feeling, you might be frightened that in changing things up, you might do the ‘wrong thing’ and in doing so, you could exacerbate your symptoms. Does this resonate with you? If so, I’ve been there before. Sometimes on my taper, It’s like I cannot tell which way is up from down.

 

In summary I agree with Jelly: Avoid additional sleep aids at all costs.

If you're confident the Trazadone is causing more issues that help– If it were me, I might try to taper from that medication  (Slowly/safely). I was prescribed Diazepam for sleep (completely different drug than Trazadone); but my point in sharing this with you is that, I too, was tapering from not one, but TWO medications. It's complicated and challenging. I recently jumped from Diazepam and I'm continuing with my Alprazolam taper. There were months in which I tapered both and reduced BOTH at the same time (not recommended), and other times where I held my Alprazolam while tapering on Diazepam. It was hard... there were MANY sleepless nights in the first couple months.

 

I'm wondering - IF maybe tapering off the Trazadone first (slowly/safely) while holding at your K dose might be a good option? (Again, I’m not a dr. Please don't take this as medical advice) - just offering another train of thought?

 

Last questions: Are you getting ALL the low hanging fruit around your sleep schedule/routine? What I mean by this is, have you exhausted EVERY part of a potential sleep hygiene/schedule? Examples include: Completely omitting caffeine/sugar, not using devices an hour before bed, trying to stick to a schedule, taking supplements (magnesium/melatonin etc). In my experience, these small efforts really add up, sometimes into a 5-hour night of sleep (There are people who will disagree with me – but in my experience, these small ‘routines’ over time – are very effective.). In my experience, introducing these routines, took about 2-3 weeks to see results, but eventually worked! IF you wanted to taper from the Traz, do you think your physician would support you? Also, if you held at your K dose, would your Physician support this and a longer taper?

 

I want to reiterate that my suggestion is not medical advice, I’m just sharing options/ideas – and perhaps it will resonate with you. Thinking of you... keep putting one foot in front of the other.

 

[Guest [...]]

Hi Zazie

 

Only you can know if the combination of trazodone and klonopin dosed together is having an adverse affect on you, but this is also a process that often has us jumping at shadows, blaming one thing, second guessing another, until it completely does our head in. I think you are best place to make a decision on what you should do, as you are the one who has to go through it. I think IATOAG is right… you don’t want to make a decision because you are in fear of making the wrong choice and suffering greatly as a result of that decision. It’s perfectly normal to be very indecisive in BW because it has you wired to the negative. But you must make your choice… and for what it’s worth, I think IATOAG offers up a sensible option in tapering the trazodone first, if you truly do feel these two medications (dosed together) are causing you significant issues.

 

WS