Does EVERYBODY heal?? What is the deal with this statement from coaches, etc?

[[Ma...]]

@[wi...]

 

I changed my profile .

 

Its dangerous for the reason my body is so deformed now the pulling took bone and muscle structure out of place

Not sure if that can ever heal.

Not sure, or actually I am sure my dystonia will not heal.it’s so severe and the few people I relate to are still suffering years later

[[Re...]]

12 years to heal?  That’s not success at all!

 

Those are just exceptions, sometimes that just happens. Just look at Pamster's story for a little hope:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=17642.0

 

CT'ed. Healed after 14 months. She took large doses of Klonopin.

 

In withdrawal a lot of people tend to think the worst. Only natural when you're suffering like that, but I wouldn't look into those horror stories too much.

 

And me, I'm taking so long because I have a highly sensitive brain in combination with insane dosages. I also updosed way too many times in way too high dosages. I basically abused the drug.

 

I am not a negative Nelly, and I respect your healing journey and opinion and am glad you are functional and improving. However, I have a strong opinion on this at this point.

 

I have spoken with the few medical experts who know about protracted benzodiazepine injury to try to understand the healing trajectory. Here is what I have learned. It's not considered "withdrawal" past a certain point. It becomes a whole new neurological condition due to brain changes. Although the condition can improve, typically, over several years, there are some cases where severe symptoms have endured for over ten years. 18, 24, 36, 48 months plus. I see those numbers. Those are not horror stories -- they are reality. You can call them exceptions or whatever you want, but there are no guarantees about the amount of time it takes to potentially feel better. There just aren't. I think at this point that saying "everyone heals" is inaccurate. I am not saying I will not heal, others won't heal, or anything like that -- I do not know what will happen. And I am not trying to trigger another member. What I know is that everyone doesn't heal the same way. Some people have enduring leftover issues. So people have prolonged and enduring injuries, and the amount of the drug, length of time, and poly drugging doesn't predict how long it takes to make progress. I know many drug addicts who have improved much faster than I have in nine months. I know someone who was taking over 1500mg of Valium a day and other drugs, and she improved in three months. Went to Betty Ford, and they ripped her off as detoxes do, and she did not get akathisia, tinnitus, or the other horrendous symptoms I have experienced. Another guy who was on heroin and 120mg of Valium a day for years almost lost his leg and went through rehab eight times, and was better in one year. He had bad headaches, but after 4.5 months, he was sleeping again. He did not have issues taking Tylenol or other supplements. I know another guy who has tapered dozens of psych drugs in seven years and has not had akathisia or the severe symptoms I have had. And he CTd Klonopin twice. His girlfriend CTd a benzo and was on Seroquel for sleep and dropped the entire dose with no problem. When I share with people who have drug addiction what I am going through, they look at me like I have three heads. I was with someone yesterday who CTd opioids after 13 years of daily use and it did not take her more than a month or so to feel better. Part of the reason I am getting off BB is because I am too sick to hear about everyone's healing anymore. I have to focus on myself. I have become a severe case. I get messages from people who tell me they are more severe because I pace 12 hours and not 20 a day -- how messed up is that? Then they tell me if they can do it I can do it too. Is this the suffering Olympics? If so, I am not playing.

[[Sn...]]

12 years to heal?  That’s not success at all!

 

Those are just exceptions, sometimes that just happens. Just look at Pamster's story for a little hope:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=17642.0

 

CT'ed. Healed after 14 months. She took large doses of Klonopin.

 

In withdrawal a lot of people tend to think the worst. Only natural when you're suffering like that, but I wouldn't look into those horror stories too much.

 

And me, I'm taking so long because I have a highly sensitive brain in combination with insane dosages. I also updosed way too many times in way too high dosages. I basically abused the drug.

 

I am not a negative Nelly, and I respect your healing journey and opinion and am glad you are functional and improving. However, I have a strong opinion on this at this point.

 

I have spoken with the few medical experts who know about protracted benzodiazepine injury to try to understand the healing trajectory. Here is what I have learned. It's not considered "withdrawal" past a certain point. It becomes a whole new neurological condition due to brain changes. Although the condition can improve, typically, over several years, there are some cases where severe symptoms have endured for over ten years. 18, 24, 36, 48 months plus. I see those numbers. Those are not horror stories -- they are reality. You can call them exceptions or whatever you want, but there are no guarantees about the amount of time it takes to potentially feel better. There just aren't. I think at this point that saying "everyone heals" is inaccurate. I am not saying I will not heal, others won't heal, or anything like that -- I do not know what will happen. And I am not trying to trigger another member. What I know is that everyone doesn't heal the same way. Some people have enduring leftover issues. So people have prolonged and enduring injuries, and the amount of the drug, length of time, and poly drugging doesn't predict how long it takes to make progress. I know many drug addicts who have improved much faster than I have in nine months. I know someone who was taking over 1500mg of Valium a day and other drugs, and she improved in three months. Went to Betty Ford, and they ripped her off as detoxes do, and she did not get akathisia, tinnitus, or the other horrendous symptoms I have experienced. Another guy who was on heroin and 120mg of Valium a day for years almost lost his leg and went through rehab eight times, and was better in one year. He had bad headaches, but after 4.5 months, he was sleeping again. He did not have issues taking Tylenol or other supplements. I know another guy who has tapered dozens of psych drugs in seven years and has not had akathisia or the severe symptoms I have had. And he CTd Klonopin twice. His girlfriend CTd a benzo and was on Seroquel for sleep and dropped the entire dose with no problem. When I share with people who have drug addiction what I am going through, they look at me like I have three heads. I was with someone yesterday who CTd opioids after 13 years of daily use and it did not take her more than a month or so to feel better. Part of the reason I am getting off BB is because I am too sick to hear about everyone's healing anymore. I have to focus on myself. I have become a severe case. I get messages from people who tell me they are more severe because I pace 12 hours and not 20 a day -- how messed up is that? Then they tell me if they can do it I can do it too. Is this the suffering Olympics? If so, I am not playing.

 

You're not understanding something.

 

You did a medical detox.

 

A CT and a medical detox is something very different than a slow taper.

 

It took me 12 years to taper. You heal all the way down.

 

If I would have ct'ed in 2011 it would have taken me 12 years, and then you would have called me 'protracted'. But I did a slow taper and now I'm probably healed in about 6 months.

 

Do you see the difference? How many months off doesn't mean anything.

 

According to your experts I would have something weird in my brain and it wouldn't be withdrawal anymore in the first situation, and in the second situation not. I don't believe in that.

 

Agree with almost everything else.

 

I'm not functioning by the way, I'm just a body without a brain. Just doing sports, nothing else. Only thing my brain is good for is headaches and being empty  . And believe me I have suffered this last 22 years. Never been functional with almost every symptom possible.

 

I really hope you feel better soon Rebecca, I know this sucks. Stay strong.

 

 

[[ty...]]

This site has become increasingly negative over the last 8 or 9 months I have been here. I can’t deal with all the negativity. I have my own opinions on why but it wouldn’t be productive to say…..anyway, I wish everyone well. For the record, I do believe everyone heals. I have done extensive research and spoken to all the “experts/coaches”……..once your off all psych drugs and don’t take rescue doses, don’t drink alcohol, don’t do recreational drugs, eat healthy, you’ll recover…..…I do agree that it takes way too long. The next time I’ll be back is to write a success story. Idk when that will be but it will be.

[[le...]]

I think the reality is majority of people do heal, everyone is different. After 4 and half years from originally stopping with no windows, not overly confident I will recover, but stupidly took AD’s which did lot damage, withdrawal from them was much worse than zopiclone,  plus flu jab made mental symptoms lot worse. I agree blanket statement saying everybody recovers may not be totally accurate, but certainly from when I came on here majority of people have improved or recovered. I’m finding positivity hard, but agree if you can change your attitude helps you deal better with symptoms. I really do think the odd severe cases like me are in the minority, the majority do recover a lot quicker. Also you do not always get full history of what pre existing problems people on here had who take years to recover. I wish you well Rebecca, agree this is not a competition as to who has the worst symptoms, we all have varying degrees of struggling with this. Also shouldn’t be criticised if we appear negative, can be b***dy hard at times getting through thisx

[Guest [...]]

@winters sun

 

I changed my profile .

 

Its dangerous for the reason my body is so deformed now the pulling took bone and muscle structure out of place

Not sure if that can ever heal.

Not sure, or actually I am sure my dystonia will not heal.it’s so severe and the few people I relate to are still suffering years later

 

Hi Mascha

 

Thank you for filling out your history/signature… the insight into your background can not only help members provide feedback, but, can also potentially clarify content of certain posts.

 

I’m so very sorry to hear of the impact these medications have had on your system, and I wish you increased healing as time passes. 

 

Faith: thank you, for finding the words to express what I couldn’t. 

[[Ch...]]

Hm, well, I’m still recovering and my ability to do logic isn’t 100% of what it used to be, but I think “everybody heals” needs some parsing. The existing research (which of course could be improved and is structurally underfunded because big pharma and capitalism) supports it and anecdotally most folks who have been here for a long time agree. At the same time, there is a protracted board for folks who are still recovering after years and some success stories talk about lingering symptoms. Because research into benzo injuries is majorly underresourced, we don’t have great info for why this is the case. So, a fair statement would be “everybody improves. the overwhelming majority make a full recovery. it’s possible that many if not most of those who don’t see improvement have, knowingly or unknowingly, undermined the process or have another medical problem.”

 

The problem is that most folks in benzo recovery aren’t able to process logic in the same way. Myself included. So instead of being encouraged by these statements, many of us go directly into catastrophizing, certain that we’re the exceptions and will suffer forever. So what we have is a disconnect between the statement best supported by facts and reasons “everybody improves and the ovewhelming majority of people make a full recovery” which folks in recovery may see as a negative, and the need to reassure people that the logic behind the previous statement holds true for them, which becomes “everybody heals.” I’m not really sure how to communicate to folks the more nuanced statements without creating panic, but if someone is it may help the community a lot because I can’t be the first or even hundredth person to have come to bb uncertain how to make sense of “everybody heals” and the existence of a protracted board. Maybe I’ll figure it out when I’m fully recovered, which the overhwhelming mass of evidence seems to indicate I will. Even though my brain still doesn’t believe it, lol.

[[tr...]]

these statements are based on subjective data - aka : experience. Our own pain and suffering. There is not a lot of objective data done through scientific studies bc it would be a longtitudinal study given the length of time to heal. Plus there are far too many variables given ppl's mixed medical backgrounds, genetics etc. no-one benefits financially from proving benzos can cause catastrophic damage.

 

And to the member who stated coaches claim healing or else they wouldn't make money - please be quiet. there are many coaches and ppl trying to help others get through this who are not making a damn dime.

 

Healing be it 100% (or maybe lower) is still healing. Maybe it is best to word it "It gets a hell of a lot better", and after what we go through we'll take what we get.

 

Healing may take years and it is damn slow - but it is happening.

It takes time for any neurological healing to take place.

 

I'm 3+ years out and its soooo much better. In the heat of the battle is is impossible to see it or feel it..you'll just have to trust those who have gone before you. Progress no matter how slow is still progress.

 

hugs

Trina75

[[Sh...]]

Hm, well, I’m still recovering and my ability to do logic isn’t 100% of what it used to be, but I think “everybody heals” needs some parsing. The existing research (which of course could be improved and is structurally underfunded because big pharma and capitalism) supports it and anecdotally most folks who have been here for a long time agree. At the same time, there is a protracted board for folks who are still recovering after years and some success stories talk about lingering symptoms. Because research into benzo injuries is majorly underresourced, we don’t have great info for why this is the case. So, a fair statement would be “everybody improves. the overwhelming majority make a full recovery. it’s possible that many if not most of those who don’t see improvement have, knowingly or unknowingly, undermined the process or have another medical problem.”

 

The problem is that most folks in benzo recovery aren’t able to process logic in the same way. Myself included. So instead of being encouraged by these statements, many of us go directly into catastrophizing, certain that we’re the exceptions and will suffer forever. So what we have is a disconnect between the statement best supported by facts and reasons “everybody improves and the ovewhelming majority of people make a full recovery” which folks in recovery may see as a negative, and the need to reassure people that the logic behind the previous statement holds true for them, which becomes “everybody heals.” I’m not really sure how to communicate to folks the more nuanced statements without creating panic, but if someone is it may help the community a lot because I can’t be the first or even hundredth person to have come to bb uncertain how to make sense of “everybody heals” and the existence of a protracted board. Maybe I’ll figure it out when I’m fully recovered, which the overhwhelming mass of evidence seems to indicate I will. Even though my brain still doesn’t believe it, lol.

 

This is a great way of putting it.  I don't have much to add aside from mentioning that the brain is always seeking equilibrium, this we know.  Neuroplasticity is in play.  I think this is part of the reason they say "everyone heals".  The statement is oversimplified but it's the simplest and more reassuring way of putting it.  I'd put it as "you are getting better every day and that will continuously happen" rather than saying you are necessarily going to heal.  But given the fact that the regeneration is a continuous thing, its a reasonable conclusion.  I can only conclude that when you wake up tomorrow you'll be more healed than you were today, which is worth holding on to.