Switching to liquid doses.

[[Li...]]

Hello, micedana.  I’m delighted to learn you are feeling a little better!

[[mi...]]

Thanks Libertas!

Any ideas about  the ingredient carrageenan on the Ora Plus?

Because of the glutamate issue I'm thinking about changing The Ora plus for this seems to be more milder suspension vehicle version of Humco called Versa plus.

Any experience on the later?

Thanks

Mice

 

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-hispbhe0cn/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/18640/16007/9926-128__50403.1625191159.jpg?c=1

[[Li...]]

Hello, micedana.  I hope this finds you well. 

 

My apologies for the delay in responding to your question about carrageenan.  I have had limited time to search for credible sources on this subject. Below are two I’ve found.

 

After reading these peer-reviewed, scientific papers and learning that carrageenan has been widely used in the food and pharmaceutical industries, my opinion is that — barring a known intolerance/allergy — it is unlikely that ingesting a tiny amount of this substance would have an adverse physiological effect. 

 

Sources:

 

Pacheco-Quito EM, Ruiz-Caro R, Veiga MD. Carrageenan: Drug Delivery Systems and Other Biomedical Applications. Mar Drugs. 2020;18(11):583. Published 2020 Nov 23. doi:10.3390/md1811058. Accessed online: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7700686/

 

Carrageenan (CGs) are “Generally Recognized As Safe” (GRAS) by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) since 1973 (FDA SCOGS (Select Committee on GRAS Substances). Carrageenan (E-407) and semi-refined carrageenan (E407a) have been approved by the European Food Safety Authority as food additives. The toxicological aspects of CGs have been thoroughly evaluated and they have been established to have minimal or no adverse physiological effects.

 

Cohen SM, Ito N. A critical review of the toxicological effects of carrageenan and processed eucheuma seaweed on the gastrointestinal tract. Crit Rev Toxicol. 2002 Sep;32(5):413-44. doi: 10.1080/20024091064282. PMID: 12389870. Accessed online: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/20024091064282

 

Carrageenan is not degraded to any extent in the gastrointestinal tract and is not absorbed from it in species examined, such as rodents, dogs, and non-human primates. Systemically administered carrageenan has been reported to have a variety of effects, particularly on the immune system, but these are not pertinent to orally administered carrageenan. The substance poligeenan (formerly referred to as degraded carrageenan) is not a food additive. It exhibits toxicological properties at high doses that do not occur with the food additive carrageenan. In long term bioassays, carrageenan has not been found to be carcinogenic, and there is no credible evidence supporting a carcinogenic effect or a tumor-promoting effect on the colon in rodents. Also, like many dietary fibers, there is significant cecal enlargement in rodents when it is administered at high doses, but this does not appear to be associated with any toxicological consequences to the rodent. Many toxicological studies on carrageenan have involved administration at doses in excess of today's standards for dietary feeding levels in bioassays, and they are orders of magnitude in excess of those to which humans are exposed.

[[mi...]]

HI!

I've been holding for 38 days.

After three abrupt changes 25 days ago  I was able to return back to my original dose of 0.250 mg at night and 1ml in the morning.               

Taking the opportunity while holding last week and feeling somewhat stable I decided to split the night dose (0.250 mg) in 0.125 mg (1/4 of 0.5 pill) and 1.25 ml and keep the morning (1 ml) dose the same. This will help me taper the 2 doses evenly.

After a week I started to feel symptomatic. I have pulsatile tinnitus in my left ear and together with anxiety have ramped up in the last two days.

I wonder if this reaction is due to the fact that the 0.125 mg in pill form of the night dose varies in drug content because is not scored or the switching to liquid of the other 1/2 of the dose cough up on me after a week.

I'm taking the morning dose at 11 am and the night dose at 21:00.

May be I should shorten the gap between doses like 11/20:00 "OR" take the liquid night dose late in the afternoon and be in three doses.

So far I sleep well and I'm ok the first hours in the morning. It's between 12 pm and 4 pm that gets really rough.

I guess I probably need to hold a bit more and let the storm pass. It's only been one week since the liquid switching of the night dose.

Any comments or subjections will be very welcomed !

Mice

 

 

[[mi...]]

New report 

Although I was not feeling well I still decided to continue tapering changing from what I said in the above post. 

I was reducing at 5 % every 14 days since my last post.

I was reducing my 1.25 ml liquid dose at night and I am at 0.343 mg as of today.

2 Days ago I had to do another batch of 50 ml with Ora Plus.

Today it's been really tough in the afternoon and in the morning, that so far I hadn't had issues, it started to be uncomfortable.

I wonder what has precipitated the ramp up of symptoms...

The only things in my opinion that I would blame my actual situation would be:

      -The change of 1/2 of the night dose to liquid (13 days ago).                                                                                             

      -The fact I'm using 1/4 of a 0.5 pill (not scored on that size)

      -Can't blame the new batch although it's been only 2 days "BUT".

      -I had also some stressful moments this week nothing serious but stressful.

Any way, I would really like any encouragement or opinion of you good Samaritans above that greatly have helped me so far. I will hold again for a couple of days and see how I do. May be the new batch precipitated everything and I just have to let the storm pass.

Thanks,

Mice

[[Li...]]

Hello, micedana.  I’m sorry you had a rough afternoon and morning. As a veteran of the benzodiazepine tapering wars, I’m sure you know this could be due to all, some, or none of the factors you’ve identified.  Is this the first time you’ve made a batch of your clonazepam suspension using a quarter tablet? 

[[mi...]]

I think I didn't explain well myself. Sorry!

I did the new batch with the regular 0.5 mg pills: 10x 0.5mg x 50 ml Ora plus.

The 1/4 of the pill I'm referring to is the dose that I'm taking at night that I'm pulling from the 0.5 mg pills. As you know 0.5 pills are scored in half but not in 1/4's out of the 1/2's. so there are some imprecision there. I take it with the reduction liquid dose that is now 1.18 ml. I thought that that imprecision may cause some symptoms and they caught on me now 10 days later.

My dilemma is if I should switch all the way to liquid those eliminating 1/4's imprecise dose. Hopefully the reason of the symptoms is not the liquid.

Let me ask you:

-How many doses did you take daily when you tapered?

-At what dose did you switch to liquid ?

-How long did it take to do your taper?

Yes, I'm really frustrated this days and symptoms don't help.

This is the third time I had to go thru this but I still have doubts about the process. Every time is different. And I can't find people like you that offer such a thorough analysis of the situation.

Sorry to ask you obvious questions. Sometimes I need reassurance of what I'm doing.

Thanks for your help!

Mice