Crossover from clonazepam to Valium not working, advice needed

[[Pa...]]

Thanks, I wondered about that big jump in dose.  I don't see a paradoxical reaction, I agree with you that it's probably not enough Clonazepam. 

 

I worry about the quick dissolve tablets simply because I don't know if she'll be able to feel a difference between them and her regular Clonazepam, some members are able to note a difference between manufacturers but I see Libertas has used them and I trust her judgement and experience.

 

I still vote for getting her crossed back over to Clonazepam sooner rather than later then hopefully you can get her stable so you can put this hospital nightmare behind you both. 

 

I have to tell you that I don't any taper experience, I quit cold turkey so whatever I'm suggesting to you is from what I've read on the forum.  It's scary to speak with you about this because she's so miserable and I don't want to be the reason why she feels worse.  It seems to me that you both intuitively know what to do and you're reaching out for confirmation, if this is the case then I agree with your direction. 

[[Ri...]]

Pamster,

You quit cold turkey?

How long were you on benzodiazepines?

Did you suffer Paws?

Should we consider a medically supervised detox?

[[Ri...]]

Libertas, thank you for your support and feedback. The quick dissolve tablets could be an option

[[Pa...]]

I was on Clonazepam for about 5 years and yes I quit cold turkey because I didn't realize it needed to be tapered.  It was very painful but I recovered fairly quickly, about 14 months so I feel very fortunate.  Of course I didn't feel fortunate at the time but after seeing what some others have gone through, I feel that way now.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about a medically supervised detox but I've seen thousands of member successfully taper off of these drugs, our success stories board tells the tale.  You can do this, your wife can free herself from this nightmare and in my opinion using our slow taper methods is the best way to accomplish this.  Many in the medical community haven't come fully on board with the need to individualize each taper, some still feel one size fits all and if it's one thing I've learned here, one size does not fit all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ri...]]

Hi Pamster,

Thank you so much for for your support and feedback.  I will keep you posted and look forward to communicating with you

Richard

[[Ri...]]

Hi Pamster,

I have another question. Since we eliminated the diazepam from her dosing 2 days ago and started on clonazepam only.

My wife started on a quick dissolve tablets, 0.125 mg one dose at 10 pm the other dose at 12:30 pm

She seems to be going  into severe withdrawal  at 7:30 pm approximately 7 hours after her 12:30 dose.

Should we increase both doses slightly, only increase the 12:30 dose, or try 3 equivalent doses every 8 hours.

The problem I've noticed in the past is that once your body gets used to a certain dosing time it can be painful to switch.

I look forward to hearing from you

Richard

[[Pa...]]

Hello Richard,

 

I'm gratified to see she's on Clonazepam only now, hopefully you can help her stabilize on one medication.  What is your intuition telling you, I get the sense you're in sync with her needs, dosing 3 times a day with Clonazepam is not uncommon, so please, if you see a need please listen to that need.  I'm sorry I can't offer you more than an affirmation of your intuitive sense of what needs to be done but you're on the front lines of her situation and you know better than anyone what will help her. 

 

This is a painful process and she's going to feel it no matter how carefully you manage her situation, the only way out is through, I'm sorry you both have to go through this but this is the only way we know for now.

 

Pamster

[[Li...]]

Hello RichardF.

 

I agree with Pamster.  For many of us, discontinuation is a painful process.  There are no magic bullets, quick fixes, or one-size-fits-all approaches.  So, might I suggest something for you to consider as you move forward?

 

As a scientist, you are well-versed in the principles of scientific experimentation.  One of the core principles is “Change only one independent variable at a time.”  If more than one independent variable is changed in an experiment, the scientist cannot attribute the changes or differences in the results to one cause.  It is only by changing one independent variable at a time that results can be directly attributed to that variable.

 

You and your wife wife have been conducting a series of “n of 1” benzodiazepine discontinuation experiments.  During those experiments, you have changed many variables (e.g. taper rate, benzodiazepine, drug formulation/format), sometimes contemporaneously.

 

At this point in time, there is no way to know what might be causing your wife’s 7:30 pm symptoms.  Although it could be interdose withdrawal, it also could be that the clonazepam has not reached steady state. The diazepam remaining in her system might also be a factor.

 

If I were in your wife’s shoes, I would give my body the time it needs to process all the changes that have been made and return to whatever level of homeostasis can be achieved.  If the symptoms at 7:30 pm are unbearable, I would weigh the pros/cons of adding a small dose.  I would not make additional changes—to my dosing schedule or anything else—at this time.

[[Ri...]]

Hello Libertas,

Thanks for the feedback.  I am in full agreement with your observations. When my wife becomes sick ,she wants me to look for immediate solutions,  she panics. I spoke with her last night; she is sticking with our current protocol. It is important to see whether she can stabilize before considering any changes. You and  Pamster have been very helpful and supportive. I will keep you posted as we proceed on this challenging journey.

Richard

[[Pa...]]

I'm in total agreement with you and Libertas on your plan for now, and please let your wife know from me that I'm so very sorry for her suffering, I understand what she's going through.  You're doing your best Richard, I'm sure its frustrating for you because you feel powerless to help her. 

[[Ri...]]

Hello Pamster,,

My wife was at a dose of 0.210 mg of clonazepam but having severe withdrawal,  we upped the dose to .0.25mg and her symptoms got worse. We are running out of options, any suggestions would be appreciated.

Richard

[[Pa...]]

Hello RichardF,

 

I'm distressed to hear she's suffering, can you update us on her taper rate and how long she's holding between reductions and how long she was at .210 before she went up to .25?

 

I've often read that up-dosing isn't helpful for many members, holding is the better approach but I can understand the need to make the pain go away, it's one of the reasons why I admire people who can taper, I don't think I would have been able to do it.

 

I'm afraid that no matter what suggestions we give you that she's going to hurt, the only way out of this mess is through.  No one has found a better way to do this, I'm so sorry. 

 

Please do what you can to encourage her to keep going, there is life after benzo's and it's wonderful.