Klonopin Taper Going Awry

[[de...]]

Well Pamster, your story is encouraging for many of us here. It was very difficult for you to get off the benzos, and your story about keeping increasing the dose is something a lot of us here can relate to either actually doing or wanting to do.

 

I am kind of conflicted still, about whether to stick with .50 mg., split the dose into .25 2x/day, add an extra .25, etc. I know that the indecision is bad for the brain, as I've been experimenting with small dose changes over the past week. I'm just trying to avoid getting so bad that I start hearing/seeing weird things (not something that ever happened to me before benzo withdrawal). Also I want to minimize tactile sensitivity to the point that I can maybe at least not feel intense burning/agitated skin when bathing or putting on clothes. And I want to not feel constant terror.

 

Baylissa Fredericks (who I talked to on the phone the other day; her consults are 50% right now by the way) said that even the most severe symptoms eventually stabilize on a set dose, or at least that's been her experience working with lots and lots of people.

 

I miss my old self terribly  .

[[Pa...]]

I've heard some can stabilize on the reduced dose during the tapering process, that's what it's all about I guess, but I've also heard that some can't find relief, it's different for everyone.  Experimentation is good, that's why we try to avoid hard fast rules about tapering, it's all about the individual. 

 

I hated the terror, the fear of things I'd never worried about, ever, this process takes over our brain and turns us into someone we don't know or recognize, I know you miss you but amazingly enough, you will be you again, it's like magic and it's wonderful when it happens.

 

I didn't have the burning skin but it sounds awful, I was cold.  I think it's wonderful Baylissa is reducing her fee at this time when she's needed the most. 

[[de...]]

Well, after weeks of posting about ongoing problems with Kpin .5, my problems continue to get worse. I need solid advice on how to try a switchover to Valium, if that is even an option or is advisable at this point. I don't know whether to post here or in the Valium crossover thread.

 

Since my last thread: Basically, for almost a week, I started taking my .5mg K in two doses, one .25mg at 9am and one .25mg at 5pm. The reason was significant interdose withdrawal when I took the .5mg once per day; toward the end of that dose schedule, after only a few hours of the dose, I started getting akathisia, DP/DR, weird visual distortions, etc. For 4 days at the split .25mg/.25mg dose, I felt a little better because I got rid of interdose withdrawals. Now though, I don't have the interdose sudden dropoff of levels but the DP/DR and hallucinations are worse. For the past 2 nights, I tried adding an extra .25mg (making it .25/.25/.25mg). But this did not help at all with the symptoms and in fact made me feel more agitated/depressed on top of it all. So reinstating to a higher dose isn't going to be an option. My brain is done with K!

 

I've tried "waiting it out" at .5mg; I've tried partial reinstatement to old dose; I've tried splitting the dose into two daily doses. No option has worked. So.... I need a new option. Please realize that my symptoms are very very intense and are not a matter of me just not wanting to accept discomfort. There are levels of discomfort, and psychosis is not really a road I'd rather stay on if I don't have to. Therefore, symptoms associated with crossing to a different benzo such as valium no longer seems completely offputting -- I mean, I guess I feel I've reached a point of no return with Kpin.

 

I need a knowledgeable person to really advise whether 1.) This is is even possible during an intensity of symptoms such as mine and 2.) If so, due to benzo brain, I need very basic, step-by-step, concrete advice. I have a prescriber who might be willing to have a conversation about crossover; I need to know *exactly* what to say and how to ask what for her to write up.

 

Ugh please help -- Last night I started hearing whispers in my ears and feeling "bugs" on my skin. This is withdrawal, not due to a condition I had pre- medications.

[[de...]]

I want to add to my last post, after feedback I got in the valium crossover group that a taper may not be wise right now. Are there any people who switch to valium and hold for a while, with the long-term intent of tapering? I cannot just stop the K, but neither tapering or staying on it seem viable either.

[[He...]]

Hi delsol

 

It’s not possible to give exact correct advice here.  We’re all so different in our withdrawal experience.  There are possibilities.  You get to make the decision about the best way for you.  You’re in charge of your own plan.  Is your prescriber on board?  What’s her advice.

 

It looks like you were on a very high dose, tried to stop suddenly, got back on and then jumped around dosing.  Your cuts were very large and close together.  Now that’s done.  You know none of that works.

 

It’s best to be very honest with your prescriber.  Tell her your experience.  Ask for help.  Explain your fears.  As for crossover to Valium, I have no idea.  I’ve not done that.  It works for some, not others.

 

K is a strong benzo.  It takes time to feel changes for better or worse.  Once you get one steady daily dose for awhile, you may consider a slow taper of very small amounts.  Get a compound made by the pharmacy and then you don’t have to cut pills.  Cutting pills doesn’t work well.  I’m not sure if you’ve already tried this.  This is just one option.

 

Whatever the reason, you’re in withdrawal.  You’re only way out is through. 

 

Accept this.  Try not to fight it.  It’s very hard, I know.  Meanwhile, what do you do to try to feel better?  That does not involve benzos...some of the solution is in acceptance and in alternate ways to improve your situation.  Look at information about the parasympathetic nervous system.  In benzo use, we put that to sleep.  It stops working.  You need to do lots of things to activate that.  This is not about reaching for a pill.  When you activate that system, you activate the part of your nervous system that calms you.  It’s like a muscle that has atrophied.  Work with it every day.  It’s not perfect.  But it won’t hurt you, and likely will bring some relief. 

 

In time you will heal. 

 

 

 

 

[[de...]]

My prescriber in my last appointment told me she'd "let me drive the bus" meaning however slow I wanted to come down, she'd support me. Her only other recommendation was reinstatement of gabapentin, which I'm not really willing to do. I threw that rx. out and don't ever want to feel it in my body again. One thing she does not seem willing to do is increase my dose. Maybe that is a blessing in disguise, but at the same time I am trying to understand all possible options.

 

I realize reaching for a benzo is not going to fix everything. And I'm familiar with the need for calming the system. Weird psychotic reactions feel like they add a whole new flavor to this ride though. Things like meditation and calming music actually seem to make these symptoms worse sometimes. The main help is talking/chatting/texting/message boards because the more quiet my mind gets, the more the psychotic symptoms seem to come to the forefront. But I agree in principle that my system is trying to heal, and that calming it is important. I am trying to follow Baylissa Fredericks' advice, which is to even view hallucinatory symptoms as normal aspects of a system trying to heal itself.

 

The cut that happened back in January was not my current prescriber's doing; it happened in a hospital. My current prescriber is new because I lost/changed insurances.

 

I've learned my lesson about playing around with slight dosage changes; however, stabilizing on a regular dose of Kpin, esp. anything higher than what I've got right now, does not seem to be an option. I think I've developed paradoxical reactions to this drug.

 

 

[[Te...]]

Delsol, what you're going through sounds like hell and I've been there many times.  I've had just about all of the symptoms you are currently experiencing.  I have been on K for 24 years and have a lot of experience with it.  The first 19 years I was on it, I didn't even know it was causing all the craziness.  I thought it was just me.  I used to run out of my prescription (tolerance w/d) at the end of every month with no K for the last 2-3 days of the month.  I became very good at "spacing" out my dosages when the dreaded end of the month was near. Here's what worked for me and I have no idea why.  It's just what I discovered through trial and error.

 

I took 2/3 of my dosage (whatever amount that was at the time) 3 hours before bed.  I took the other 1/3 of my dosage 1 hour before bed.  For whatever this top heavy approach helped level me out.  For me I had a better chance of getting through the day than I did getting through the night.  Since the morning dose doesn't seem to be doing much anyway it could help.

 

The next thing that worked for me was identifying 2 or 3 things I could do when the shit was hitting the fan.  For me it was a hot bath.  When I didn't know what to do with myself I always took a hot bath.  This helped me even if it was only 5% better.  Sometimes it didn't help at all but it gave me the motions to go through which was a slight distraction.  I sometimes took 4 or 5 baths in a day.  I like to feel that I was sweating some of the toxins out of my body.

 

One other thing that worked for me was to eat a lot of carbs. For me it was cereal or toast.  The more I could eat the better.  I would force myself to eat 2-3 bowls of cereal.  I have no idea why this worked for me and I realize it can be very hard to eat when experiencing these symptoms.  But for whatever reason it worked, and still works to this day.  And by worked, I mean slightly.  It would help by 5-10%.

 

I realize that my suggestions don't make a lot of sense and sound extremely unscientific. It really has helped me and I wanted to share with you in case it can help you too. 5-10% better goes a long way when you feel the way I did.  Good luck!!

 

 

 

 

[[de...]]

Hi and thanks. I think it's good for me to think of a few things that might make me 5-10% better. I totally agree with your comment about carbs. I am literally amazed at how a heavy carb meal can reduce my anxiety; I'd even say sometimes by 50% -- if only the effects could last.

 

Right now I find baths overstimulating to my whole nervous system; my skin is so sensitive that it hurts to have water run over me in a shower or to rub soap over my skin. I do it anyway, just because I don't like feeling grungy, but I really have to gear up for it.

 

Walking typically helps, but again right now, with recent intensification of symptoms, my fear/terror level has escalated, and I fear stepping outside. All of this makes me so sad, because I love nature. I do force myself outside to feed the birds at the feeder, so I can watch them through the window, and that helps a little. Oat straw or tulsi tea sometimes gives me a brief 5-10% benefit. Spending time with my wife, just holding hands or talking, is probably my biggest sense of calm. Also I occasionally get relief from CBD oil, for about an hour at a stretch, but it loses its effectiveness when I use it every day.

 

24 years on K is a long stretch. I have only been on a "daily" dose for 3 months; prior to that was occasional/PRN usage. I am scared by the cognitive dullness I already feel and so wish I could just CT. But that would be bad. Thanks for the feedback.