help with Xanax taper

[[Ho...]]

Wow OK, they made that chapter really complicated. It's all statistical and everything.

 

But essentially, any one table can be plus or minus 25% of the label claim!

 

But not too many of them, because there is an upper limit on the standard deviation of the number of tablets tested.

 

To get into some of the details if you want them, first you test 10 tablets, and if the standard deviation of the results is less than 6.25, the lot is OK. If the standard deviation is greater than 6.25, you test 20 more tablets. The standard deviation must be less than 6.25, and no individual value can be less than 25% of the label claim or greater than 25% of the label claim.

 

It's actually more complicated than that. You have to calculate the "acceptance value" which is |M-Xbar|+ks. Xbar is the average value in units of label claim, i.e. ideally 100%, or close to it. M is a certain value, depending on what Xbar is. M can be 100%, 98.5%, or 101.5%. k should be familiar to anyone who's studied statistics. It is 2.4 for 10 tablets tested, and 2.0 if 30 tablets are tested.

 

The plus or minus 25% requirement does not mean manufacturers can skimp on drug when they make tablets. The recipe for the tablets has to contain the amount of drug so that every tablet is 100% of label claim. For example, if each xanax tablet weighs 0.150 grams, and it contains 0.001 g drug, then the tablet is 0.67% drug. Each batch of tablets is 100 to 200 kilograms. Let's say they're making 200 kilograms, they need to add 1.33 kilograms of drug to all the other ingredients and mix well. Very well because that is a tiny tiny percentage of drug in each tablet.

 

So there you have it. Those are the requirements in the US, the EU (including UK), and Japan. Most other countries around the world tend to follow these requirements, especially if the requirements are harmonized in the 3 regions. And the "Content Uniformity" requirements are harmonized.

 

I hope I didn't bore you all. 

[[bu...]]

 

Actually, the US Pharmacopia allows +/- 15% tablet-to-tablet variation for both weight and content.  And as noted, there is even an exception procedure if a sample does not meet that standard.

 

But, the reality is that actual production does not vary nearly that much.  Most mfgr's manage to maintain a +/- 5% (10% total variance), or better.  And for dosing of whole taablets, that range really doesn't cause many problems.

 

However, if you are trying to scrape/cut just one area of a tablet, obviously you have no assurance what the content of the removed part is, or the content of the remainder.

 

But if you dissolve or crush a batch of tablets, then you will be averaging the weight and content, and your dosing from that will be more consistent.  And if you dissolve the tablet(s), then the distribution will be completely uniform, and there will be no dose-to-dose variation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformity_of_content

 

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

 

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

[[Ho...]]

 

Actually, the US Pharmacopia allows +/- 15% tablet-to-tablet variation for both weight and content.  And as noted, there is even an exception procedure if a sample does not meet that standard.

 

But, the reality is that actual production does not vary nearly that much.  Most mfgr's manage to maintain a +/- 5% (10% total variance), or better.  And for dosing of whole taablets, that range really doesn't cause many problems.

 

However, if you are trying to scrape/cut just one area of a tablet, obviously you have no assurance what the content of the removed part is, or the content of the remainder.

 

But if you dissolve or crush a batch of tablets, then you will be averaging the weight and content, and your dosing from that will be more consistent.  And if you dissolve the tablet(s), then the distribution will be completely uniform, and there will be no dose-to-dose variation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformity_of_content

 

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

 

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

 

The International Pharmacopoeia monographs do not comply with the current USP, Ph Eur, or JP. I don't know what the Indian Pharmacopoeia looks like now (what the Wikipedia article references), but usually India complies with the British Pharmacopeoia, which complies with the Ph Eur.

 

Those monographs are actually outdated. The USP used to have those requirements, but it's since been modified.

[[bu...]]

 

Actually, the US Pharmacopia allows +/- 15% tablet-to-tablet variation for both weight and content.  And as noted, there is even an exception procedure if a sample does not meet that standard.

 

But, the reality is that actual production does not vary nearly that much.  Most mfgr's manage to maintain a +/- 5% (10% total variance), or better.  And for dosing of whole taablets, that range really doesn't cause many problems.

 

However, if you are trying to scrape/cut just one area of a tablet, obviously you have no assurance what the content of the removed part is, or the content of the remainder.

 

But if you dissolve or crush a batch of tablets, then you will be averaging the weight and content, and your dosing from that will be more consistent.  And if you dissolve the tablet(s), then the distribution will be completely uniform, and there will be no dose-to-dose variation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformity_of_content

 

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

 

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

 

The International Pharmacopoeia monographs do not comply with the current USP, Ph Eur, or JP. I don't know what the Indian Pharmacopoeia looks like now (what the Wikipedia article references), but usually India complies with the British Pharmacopeoia, which complies with the Ph Eur.

 

Those monographs are actually outdated. The USP used to have those requirements, but it's since been modified.

 

Those standards were accurate in 2016.  Can you give me a link or a source for a newer standard?

[[Ho...]]

 

Actually, the US Pharmacopia allows +/- 15% tablet-to-tablet variation for both weight and content.  And as noted, there is even an exception procedure if a sample does not meet that standard.

 

But, the reality is that actual production does not vary nearly that much.  Most mfgr's manage to maintain a +/- 5% (10% total variance), or better.  And for dosing of whole taablets, that range really doesn't cause many problems.

 

However, if you are trying to scrape/cut just one area of a tablet, obviously you have no assurance what the content of the removed part is, or the content of the remainder.

 

But if you dissolve or crush a batch of tablets, then you will be averaging the weight and content, and your dosing from that will be more consistent.  And if you dissolve the tablet(s), then the distribution will be completely uniform, and there will be no dose-to-dose variation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformity_of_content

 

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

 

http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/docf/

 

The International Pharmacopoeia monographs do not comply with the current USP, Ph Eur, or JP. I don't know what the Indian Pharmacopoeia looks like now (what the Wikipedia article references), but usually India complies with the British Pharmacopeoia, which complies with the Ph Eur.

 

Those monographs are actually outdated. The USP used to have those requirements, but it's since been modified.

 

Those standards were accurate in 2016.  Can you give me a link or a source for a newer standard?

 

I am looking at the USP/NF, which is a paid subscription. But I found this link from 2004 which is more in line with what the chapter looks like. https://www.usp.org/sites/default/files/usp/document/harmonization/gen-method/q0304_pf_30_4_2004.pdf

[[bu...]]

That's the same standard that was in effect in 2016. 

 

I'm not trying to discredit    what you say is the current standard, I would just like have documentation if the current standard is different than the the info I have previously gathered.

[[la...]]

Thanks Waves. I read Ashton's addendum this morning and got some clarification on stabilizing. My whole trouble with this is not really knowing precisely what my average daily was prior to CT and I didn't want to updose if I could avoid it. I'm still not sure if I haven't, but I can at least think clearly enough now to tackle this. The brain fog was intense. Also, thank you for recommending electrolytes. I drank coconut water last evening and didn't awaken once. 

 

Hope...

 

What mg are you diluting?

 

If .25 would you mind sharing your recipe for dilution with me? Also, what your batch size is (7 days?), etc.

 

Congrats on being so close!

[[la...]]

Whew. Thank you, Builder. That's a relief.  If I wanted to make a two week solution using .25mg Alprazolam what will my alcohol and water ratios be?

 

Regarding the taper plan found at http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/titration/titrationForm.php

 

Can I get some feedback on which method has better results fixed reduction quantity vs. percentage?

 

Thank you.

 

If your current dose is 1.375mg/day (per your siggy)...

 

combine 15mg + 30ml vodka + 120ml water.  That will give approx a 10-12 day supply.

 

You can divide up the full days dose into periodic doses as you choose.

 

 

Hi Builder. Can we try this again with my .25mg daily dosage?

 

Thanks!

[[bu...]]

Whew. Thank you, Builder. That's a relief.  If I wanted to make a two week solution using .25mg Alprazolam what will my alcohol and water ratios be?

 

Regarding the taper plan found at http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/titration/titrationForm.php

 

Can I get some feedback on which method has better results fixed reduction quantity vs. percentage?

 

Thank you.

 

If your current dose is 1.375mg/day (per your siggy)...

 

combine 15mg + 30ml vodka + 120ml water.  That will give approx a 10-12 day supply.

 

You can divide up the full days dose into periodic doses as you choose.

 

 

Hi Builder. Can we try this again with my .25mg daily dosage?

 

Thanks!

 

Combine 2.5mg with 5ml vodka and add 20ml water.  This will give you approx a 10-12 day supply,  .1mg per ml. 

 

 

[[la...]]

Thank you! 

[[la...]]

Builder or Hope,

 

I used Ketel One to dissolve my pills but I am still seeing several small particles of the pill that aren't dissolving completely, not an even consistency.   

 

Any ideas or recommendations?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ho...]]

I just started using Ketel One too after I finished off the Grey Goose. It took 6 months to finish a bottle of vodka.

 

The solid pieces you see are most likely the inactive ingredients in the pill. My solution has particles too. I just shake it up before I pour out my dose, even though shaking is probably not necessary. It just puts my mind at ease.

 

Most of the pill's weight is taken up by inactive ingredients. The drug is actually less than 1% of the pill. For valium the percentage is higher, probably anywhere from 1% to 10%.

[[Ho...]]

Wow memories of testing tablets in the lab are coming back to me...  I didn't test benzo tablets, but other drugs.

 

We dissolved the pills in some pretty heaving duty solvents (acetonitrile, methanol) but there were always particulates floating around in the solution. The drug dissolved pretty well, and stayed dissolved after adding water to the solvents. I tested a variety of drugs myself. And even after I stopped working in the lab I reviewed a lot of test methods for other tablets with a whole variety of different drugs (opiates, acetaminophen, just to name a few) that were basically dissolved the same way.

 

These memories make me feel better about the solutions we're making up. That they're probably OK. I know builder is constantly hammering that idea on these boards. But you know, it's the nature of the Worry Beast that's inside of us all.

[[bu...]]

Builder or Hope,

 

I used Ketel One to dissolve my pills but I am still seeing several small particles of the pill that aren't dissolving completely, not an even consistency.   

 

Any ideas or recommendations?

 

Only a tiny percentage of your tablet is actually X; the rest is various inactive ingredients.  The benzo will absolutely dissolve, but some of the inactive ingredients will be insoluble.  Don't worry about them, they don't matter.

[[la...]]

Thank you Hope.

 

What I'm seeing after it sits is a separation with a white substance on the bottom and clear on top (if that makes sense). Is the white substance filler? I read somewhere on here that the drug is too small to see with the naked eye so I'm hoping by agitating it slightly I'm doing my part to mix it?

 

I'm not starting until Monday but I was so worried about messing up while I was mixing up my batch I gave myself a nice anxiety filled afternoon.

 

 

[[la...]]

Thanks Builder. I believe we posted at the same time. 

 

I won't concern myself with the thicker white layer on the bottom?

 

 

 

 

[Guest [NM...]]

Thank you Hope.

 

What I'm seeing after it sits is a separation with a white substance on the bottom and clear on top (if that makes sense). Is the white substance filler? I read somewhere on here that the drug is too small to see with the naked eye so I'm hoping by agitating it slightly I'm doing my part to mix it?

 

I'm not starting until Monday but I was so worried about messing up while I was mixing up my batch I gave myself a nice anxiety filled afternoon.

 

Yeah, it’s the filler and other insoluble parts of the tablet. I know it’s easy to say don’t worry because I look at the sediment every time I get a dose lol. I shake the jar before pulling out my dose because it makes my obsessive mind feel better. 😊

[[Ho...]]

Thank you Hope.

 

What I'm seeing after it sits is a separation with a white substance on the bottom and clear on top (if that makes sense). Is the white substance filler? I read somewhere on here that the drug is too small to see with the naked eye so I'm hoping by agitating it slightly I'm doing my part to mix it?

 

I'm not starting until Monday but I was so worried about messing up while I was mixing up my batch I gave myself a nice anxiety filled afternoon.

 

Yeah, it’s the filler and other insoluble parts of the tablet. I know it’s easy to say don’t worry because I look at the sediment every time I get a dose lol. I shake the jar before pulling out my dose because it makes my obsessive mind feel better. 😊

 

Exactly what NMsafe said. 

[[bu...]]

Thank you Hope.

 

What I'm seeing after it sits is a separation with a white substance on the bottom and clear on top (if that makes sense). Is the white substance filler? I read somewhere on here that the drug is too small to see with the naked eye so I'm hoping by agitating it slightly I'm doing my part to mix it?

 

I'm not starting until Monday but I was so worried about messing up while I was mixing up my batch I gave myself a nice anxiety filled afternoon.

 

For clarification, the "drug" has been transformed (dissolved) from a granular solid to a liquid.  The reason you can't see it, is because it no longer exists in its original state.

[[la...]]

I feel so much better.

 

Thank you all.

 

(I will also shake a little...same obsessive mind. )

[[bu...]]

I feel so much better.

 

Thank you all.

 

(I will also shake a little...same obsessive mind. )

 

Can't hurt!  (I always did.  )

[Guest [NM...]]

😬😬 Shake it, shake it!!! 😂

[[la...]]

Whew. Thank you, Builder. That's a relief.  If I wanted to make a two week solution using .25mg Alprazolam what will my alcohol and water ratios be?

 

Regarding the taper plan found at http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/titration/titrationForm.php

 

Can I get some feedback on which method has better results fixed reduction quantity vs. percentage?

 

Thank you.

 

If your current dose is 1.375mg/day (per your siggy)...

 

combine 15mg + 30ml vodka + 120ml water.  That will give approx a 10-12 day supply.

 

You can divide up the full days dose into periodic doses as you choose.

 

 

Hi Builder. Can we try this again with my .25mg daily dosage?

 

Thanks!

 

Combine 2.5mg with 5ml vodka and add 20ml water.  This will give you approx a 10-12 day supply,  .1mg per ml. 

 

 

Isn't Alprazolam 10x more potent than V?  Should I have diluted with more water? 

 

 

Which concentration?

For practical purposes, the solution concentration is suggested to be in function of 0.1 mg/ml for Diazepam. Should the benzo to taper be 10 times more powerful or superior then it is recommended to have a concentration of 0.01 mg/ml that is 10 times more diluted. While there is no difference between the two concentrations when the doses are large, the more diluted is the solution the higher is the accuracy when doses get very small to draw up towards the end.

Example:

1 mg of Diazepam --> 2 ml of alcohol to dilute + 8 ml of water will make a 10 ml final solution of 0.1 mg/ml concentration.

1 mg of Clonazepam--> 2 ml of alcohol to dilute + 98 ml of water will make a 100 ml solution of 0.01 mg/ml concentration.

[[bu...]]

There is no need to change the dilution ratio, you just take less.

 

For example, for .25mg xanax you would take 2.5ml, but for 25mg valium, you would take 250ml.  (But if someone were actualy on 25mg V, they would probably do a combo of tablets + liquid, and would not likely actually take the whole 25mg with liquid)

 

 

But the whole idea is the use multiples of 10 or 100, so there is no real math.  You could do 2.5mg + 5ml vodka + 245ml water which gives you 250ml, .01mg per ml

[[la...]]

Well, I just discovered I made a mistake when I made my first batch.

 

I am on day 7 of my DLMT and I looked at my solution and it looked too skimpy to last another 3-5 days. I do not have a graduated cylinder so I used my syringes to measure. Sure enough, I am 5ml short of, which tells me I likely under-measured the water.

 

I don't know what this means in terms of the doses potency and how to move forward. Please help.

 

Thanks.