Please help - cannot stand being tired even for one day

[[St...]]

Does ambien not make you feel crazy? I can't take it. It sent me to the ER.

[[al...]]

So last night I took 4mg Valium at 1am, slept until 7:30am, and then took 10mg Ambien and slept until 9:30am, rested.  It was a dose reduction night for the Valium, so that is progress.  I'm not really proud of the 10mg Ambien however, but I had to feel rested today.

 

SleeplessInPNW,

I would think that one of your prime goals right now needs to be the dropping of the attitude that you MUST feel rested the next day. Progress is going to be hard or perhaps impossible until you learn to do that. Feeling rested and getting off of z-drugs and benzos don't intersect at any point. That is why people have such a hard time getting off of the pills.

[[Sl...]]

Aloha - I hear you.  I have several things working against me though:

 

1) I'm stuck in Michigan with my parents, 3000 miles from my home in Portland.

2) My daughter is in Portland.  She is 9 and she is my world.  We facetime every week and we both cry because we miss each other so bad.

3) My wife and I are on the verge of divorce.  I treated her badly over the years and she has had enough.  She is willing to try separation however, so if I can turn myself around (I'm not sure how I'll do that however) maybe our marriage can survive.

4) I have no real support here in Michigan.  My parents are nice but they are nothing like the emotional support I need.

5) I am extremely depressed because of all of this, so much so that I had to face the-demon-that-can't-be-named-here a couple weeks ago.  Thankfully, due to the thought of my daughter, I won that battle.

 

So all of that and more is making the endless tired days just too much for me right now.  I don't know what my plan is for the Ambien aside from cutting it down slowly as I taper the valium .5mg every three days. I've only been on the Valium for 16 days now, so I'm hoping that taper is not too fast.

 

[[Fa...]]

Go on Amazon and order "say goodnight to insomnia" by Dr. Gregg D. Jacobs.

It will give you some tools and also some reading material before you go to sleep.

[[St...]]

I'm still worried mine isn't all benzo. My brain hasn't shut off in 7 months without powerful meds. People take benzos for years and don't have this problem.

[[al...]]

Aloha - I hear you.  I have several things working against me though:

 

1) I'm stuck in Michigan with my parents, 3000 miles from my home in Portland.

2) My daughter is in Portland.  She is 9 and she is my world.  We facetime every week and we both cry because we miss each other so bad.

3) My wife and I are on the verge of divorce.  I treated her badly over the years and she has had enough.  She is willing to try separation however, so if I can turn myself around (I'm not sure how I'll do that however) maybe our marriage can survive.

4) I have no real support here in Michigan.  My parents are nice but they are nothing like the emotional support I need.

5) I am extremely depressed because of all of this, so much so that I had to face the-demon-that-can't-be-named-here a couple weeks ago.  Thankfully, due to the thought of my daughter, I won that battle.

 

So all of that and more is making the endless tired days just too much for me right now.  I don't know what my plan is for the Ambien aside from cutting it down slowly as I taper the valium .5mg every three days. I've only been on the Valium for 16 days now, so I'm hoping that taper is not too fast.

 

I feel for you very much. You are in a hard place right now, but it is a false hope to think that chasing sleep through drugs will make it any easier. At least you are heading in the right direction via dose reduction and not holding steady or increasing. Some people can take Ambien for a long time and reduce their way off of it without any issues (I have a good friend who did that). Others of us develop drug tolerance to Ambien and reach a point where it only gives us an hour or two of sleep so we increase the dose. I believe that once this happens, withdrawal problems (mainly insomnia) cannot be avoided regardless of the speed in which you back yourself off of the drug.

 

I lack the experience to suggest how best to taper from a short-term Valium use and a longer-term Ambien use. It is my personal opinion that an Ambien taper, once tolerance and inter-dose withdrawal symptoms have set in, is probably not manageable for most people, but if you stay on the Valium too long just to deal with the Ambien withdrawal symptoms, you might be setting yourself up for a rocky Valium withdrawal as well.

 

There are a lot of heavy things going on in your life right now, but believe it or not, your drug issues are by far the heaviest and demand immediate addressing because you have to save your life before you can rebuild it. The timing for you might be horrible, but your personal problems and drug problems are related so it is not surprising. Your hand has been dealt so you just have to play the cards that you have. I have a strong feeling that you will get through this whole mess in one piece, but it will take time and might get a little hard along the way. That cute daughter of yours can be your main motivation to keep going.

 

[[tr...]]

Try no sleep for 27 days with Dr's help with (I spent over $$$$$$$for medical tests like the show"house" to know. I have lost unintentionaly 40 lbs in 6months. I have tried 30 meds so insomnia. OTC, supplements. I have hard shit til.

 

[[St...]]

Try no sleep for 27 days with Dr's help with (I spent over $$$$$$$for medical tests like the show"house" to know. I have lost unintentionaly 40 lbs in 6months. I have tried 30 meds so insomnia. OTC, supplements. I have hard shit til.

 

What happened in Dec to suddenly make you stop sleeping?

[[Sl...]]

Update.  I took my 4mg Valium last night at 1:30am but barely slept because I kept having dreams about my soon to be ex wife of 25 years.  At 6:30am took 5mg Ambien which did nothing, so took another 10mg Ambien which put me down until 9:30am when I woke up unrested.  I've been fighting Valium withdrawals (due to 1mg per week taper) and Ambien withdrawals all day.  The drug cravings are insane due to my insatiable desire for sleep. 

 

I'm going to end up in a psych ward being pumped full of Ativan, I just know it.  Or Klonopin.  Then I'm really screwed.  I'm thinking the unthinkable.

 

[[Lu...]]

You have to stop dosing up on Ambien when you don’t get the sleep you want. It’s not grabbing you any restful sleep and you are potentially putting yourself further at risk. If you can’t do this on your own, you need to find a doctor who will work with you on tapering. Everyone here has been reminding you that this won’t be easy and you have to find it within yourself to abandon this chase for what you think your sleep should be. That you were dreaming means you were sleeping, and many on here would kill to even just experience that on a consistent basis. You are far stronger than you are giving yourself credit for.

[[al...]]

Update.  I took my 4mg Valium last night at 1:30am but barely slept because I kept having dreams about my soon to be ex wife of 25 years.  At 6:30am took 5mg Ambien which did nothing, so took another 10mg Ambien which put me down until 9:30am when I woke up unrested.  I've been fighting Valium withdrawals (due to 1mg per week taper) and Ambien withdrawals all day.  The drug cravings are insane due to my insatiable desire for sleep. 

 

I'm going to end up in a psych ward being pumped full of Ativan, I just know it.  Or Klonopin.  Then I'm really screwed.  I'm thinking the unthinkable.

 

When I was in your shoes and thinking the same thoughts I did a very rapid 10 day taper and just threw out all of my meds and then just hung on for the ride. It felt like crap, but so did taking the meds and at least I had the satisfaction of being in control. If you don't think that you can trust yourself to stick to a strict tapering schedule then just getting off is the next best thing because you can't stay on the drugs for much longer. Ignoring the problem by popping Ambien like candy to get a couple hours of sleep is a passive form of that action that is not to be named on this forum. Snap out of it now! We are here to support you. You are only as screwed as you allow yourself to continue to be.

[Guest [Le...]]

I’ve gotta join in – there’s no easy way off, and you could probably just drop the Valium before you’re so hooked that you require a taper. It’s not helping you at all, and can make it worse than you’d ever imagine. I know, I lived it.

 

Also, Valium can cause profound despair – I tried a crossover and plunged into an absolutely unimaginable hell.

 

Aloha’s right, IMO – there’s something to be said for biting the bullet. Take it from people who have survived this.

[[St...]]

Update.  I took my 4mg Valium last night at 1:30am but barely slept because I kept having dreams about my soon to be ex wife of 25 years.  At 6:30am took 5mg Ambien which did nothing, so took another 10mg Ambien which put me down until 9:30am when I woke up unrested.  I've been fighting Valium withdrawals (due to 1mg per week taper) and Ambien withdrawals all day.  The drug cravings are insane due to my insatiable desire for sleep. 

 

I'm going to end up in a psych ward being pumped full of Ativan, I just know it.  Or Klonopin.  Then I'm really screwed.  I'm thinking the unthinkable.

 

You're like me..I love my sleep..I used to fall asleep all the time. I fell asleep during labor. Lol I don't even know how I even got here. I'm so worried mine won't return to normal because I forgot what normal is.  I forgot what it felt like to get naturally sleepy. I'm hoping I'll recognize it when it happens again. It scares me when people say it's taking them years to get it back. All I know is, you will have to find a way to get on the right track. I cold turkeyed everything that I was on and it was the worst thing I had ever went through. I can't even explain how awful it was. You've messed up your gaba and you need to find a way to start heading in the right direction.  I feel like I am but I'm growing very impatient. I get all kinds of anxiefy and pain when I don't get sleep. If you keep down regulating your gaba, you are never going to get the sleep you want. Every time you put an ambien or Valium in your mouth, you are just telling your body not to produce its own. We've both damaged our brains pretty bad seeking sleep, but I wish I knew then what I know now. That my brain can do without sleep and I didn't need benzos or other drugs to do it for me. It would eventually return on its own. Now I get worried because I screwed it up myself with manmade drugs. Just don't screw it up even more and give it time to heal.

[[Sl...]]

Update.  Last night was lights out at 10:30pm I was so tired.  I think I got some light, restful sleep between 10:30pm and 1am.  I took my 4mg Valium dose at 1am, slept until 8am, still tired, then took 9mg Ambien (which I'm tapering now). 

 

Tonight I go down to 3.5mg Valium. 

[[Sl...]]

 

 

When I was in your shoes and thinking the same thoughts I did a very rapid 10 day taper and just threw out all of my meds and then just hung on for the ride. It felt like crap, but so did taking the meds and at least I had the satisfaction of being in control. If you don't think that you can trust yourself to stick to a strict tapering schedule then just getting off is the next best thing because you can't stay on the drugs for much longer. Ignoring the problem by popping Ambien like candy to get a couple hours of sleep is a passive form of that action that is not to be named on this forum. Snap out of it now! We are here to support you. You are only as screwed as you allow yourself to continue to be.

 

Aloha - how in the hell did you survive a year of bad sleep?  You mean like every single night?  I can barely do one night of bad sleep.  I get sleep psychosis where I wake up screaming and my parents have to rush me to the ER. 

[[Fa...]]

 

 

When I was in your shoes and thinking the same thoughts I did a very rapid 10 day taper and just threw out all of my meds and then just hung on for the ride. It felt like crap, but so did taking the meds and at least I had the satisfaction of being in control. If you don't think that you can trust yourself to stick to a strict tapering schedule then just getting off is the next best thing because you can't stay on the drugs for much longer. Ignoring the problem by popping Ambien like candy to get a couple hours of sleep is a passive form of that action that is not to be named on this forum. Snap out of it now! We are here to support you. You are only as screwed as you allow yourself to continue to be.

 

Aloha - how in the hell did you survive a year of bad sleep?  You mean like every single night?  I can barely do one night of bad sleep.  I get sleep psychosis where I wake up screaming and my parents have to rush me to the ER.

 

If you "wake up" screaming, what wakes you up? You were getting sleep. You were sleeping if you had to wake up. What I mean is, perhaps it isn't insomnia that's the problem. Perhaps it's anxiety or nightmares that are waking you up and you're going to need to figure out what's causing you to wake up screaming.

[[Sl...]]

If you "wake up" screaming, what wakes you up? You were getting sleep. You were sleeping if you had to wake up. What I mean is, perhaps it isn't insomnia that's the problem. Perhaps it's anxiety or nightmares that are waking you up and you're going to need to figure out what's causing you to wake up screaming.

 

What happens is that 5 minutes after I wake up I realize how little sleep I got, and that sends me over the edge into panic/anxiety/uncontrollable-crying/etc.  The thought of being up feeling like crap for 18-20hours is more than I can bear, day after day after day after day.  At the beginning of 2018 I made it around 60 days feeling like that before I cracked. and asked for more ambien.

[[NJ...]]

Update.  Last night was lights out at 10:30pm I was so tired.  I think I got some light, restful sleep between 10:30pm and 1am.  I took my 4mg Valium dose at 1am, slept until 8am, still tired, then took 9mg Ambien (which I'm tapering now). 

 

Tonight I go down to 3.5mg Valium.

 

I have been to a sleep specialist and one of the things they talk about, also in lots of books about sleep, is limiting the amount of sleep you get to improve sleep quality and quantity. You are really in bed a long time. I think you likely would do better if you spent less time sleeping/trying to sleep. I just took a new job where I get up 40 minutes earlier and my sleep has improved immensely. It is truly amazing. You are probably waking up tired because of the valium dose at 1 a.m. Can you move that to before bed? Same thing with ambien, I would not take that at 8 in the morning. You may not be tired from lack of sleep but from the timing of the medication. Even on a low dose of klonopin I cannot take in the morning due to fatigue.

 

I personally think you might do better trying to concentrate your sleep in a seven hour block rather than stretching it out.

[[al...]]

 

 

When I was in your shoes and thinking the same thoughts I did a very rapid 10 day taper and just threw out all of my meds and then just hung on for the ride. It felt like crap, but so did taking the meds and at least I had the satisfaction of being in control. If you don't think that you can trust yourself to stick to a strict tapering schedule then just getting off is the next best thing because you can't stay on the drugs for much longer. Ignoring the problem by popping Ambien like candy to get a couple hours of sleep is a passive form of that action that is not to be named on this forum. Snap out of it now! We are here to support you. You are only as screwed as you allow yourself to continue to be.

 

Aloha - how in the hell did you survive a year of bad sleep?  You mean like every single night?  I can barely do one night of bad sleep.  I get sleep psychosis where I wake up screaming and my parents have to rush me to the ER.

 

If you "wake up" screaming, what wakes you up? You were getting sleep. You were sleeping if you had to wake up. What I mean is, perhaps it isn't insomnia that's the problem. Perhaps it's anxiety or nightmares that are waking you up and you're going to need to figure out what's causing you to wake up screaming.

 

We can survive a lot of things that our minds at first tell us we can't. Simple as that.

 

It is not as impossible as it sounds because during that protracted insomnia phase you will be getting some nights of better sleep when your body absolutly needs it. When a certain level of fatigue sets in you will sleep and your batteries will recharge again. Also, during that time you will experience waves were more normal sleep briefly returns.

 

Your sleep anxiety is heightened by the effects of the Ambien right now. I remember having breakdowns when it wore off and I found myself wide awake in the dark. It wasn't so bad in day light. Just take my advice and bury your face in the pillow when you first realize that your have spooled out of control. If nothing else, do it to spare your parents. Once your get a good freak-out session in you will calm down a lot. A trip to the ER sounds very disruptive to all and probably a big waste of time and money.

 

You started your taper so you are on the right track. If you can't control your fear, then just live with it, but you have to keep going forward. Time will pass regardless of your state of mind and you will have gotten through your ordeal.

 

One more thought to express as it comes to my mind; I don't like advocating meds, but have you tried Seroquel? It helps many sleep in lower doses and is an anti-psychotic. There might be some underlying need for such a drug behind your nightime episodes that go beyond the anxiety that Ambien can cause. Got to consider covering all bases. 

 

[[al...]]

Update.  Last night was lights out at 10:30pm I was so tired.  I think I got some light, restful sleep between 10:30pm and 1am.  I took my 4mg Valium dose at 1am, slept until 8am, still tired, then took 9mg Ambien (which I'm tapering now). 

 

Tonight I go down to 3.5mg Valium.

 

I have been to a sleep specialist and one of the things they talk about, also in lots of books about sleep, is limiting the amount of sleep you get to improve sleep quality and quantity. You are really in bed a long time. I think you likely would do better if you spent less time sleeping/trying to sleep. I just took a new job where I get up 40 minutes earlier and my sleep has improved immensely. It is truly amazing. You are probably waking up tired because of the valium dose at 1 a.m. Can you move that to before bed? Same thing with ambien, I would not take that at 8 in the morning. You may not be tired from lack of sleep but from the timing of the medication. Even on a low dose of klonopin I cannot take in the morning due to fatigue.

 

I personally think you might do better trying to concentrate your sleep in a seven hour block rather than stretching it out.

 

That sleep hygiene stuff can be great for those with normal sleep problems, but I think that drug withdrawal steam-rolls right over it and renders it next to useless. It has been my experience that pulling yourself out of bed prematurely during withdrawal only serves to deny you of any badly needed light sleep that might set in even if you are not aware of it. When sleep begins to return to normal would be a better time to begin practicing those theories to avoid a return of any original sleep issues.

[[St...]]

Update.  Last night was lights out at 10:30pm I was so tired.  I think I got some light, restful sleep between 10:30pm and 1am.  I took my 4mg Valium dose at 1am, slept until 8am, still tired, then took 9mg Ambien (which I'm tapering now). 

 

Tonight I go down to 3.5mg Valium.

 

I have been to a sleep specialist and one of the things they talk about, also in lots of books about sleep, is limiting the amount of sleep you get to improve sleep quality and quantity. You are really in bed a long time. I think you likely would do better if you spent less time sleeping/trying to sleep. I just took a new job where I get up 40 minutes earlier and my sleep has improved immensely. It is truly amazing. You are probably waking up tired because of the valium dose at 1 a.m. Can you move that to before bed? Same thing with ambien, I would not take that at 8 in the morning. You may not be tired from lack of sleep but from the timing of the medication. Even on a low dose of klonopin I cannot take in the morning due to fatigue.

 

I personally think you might do better trying to concentrate your sleep in a seven hour block rather than stretching it out.

 

That sleep hygiene stuff can be great for those with normal sleep problems, but I think that drug withdrawal steam-rolls right over it and renders it next to useless. It has been my experience that pulling yourself out of bed prematurely during withdrawal only serves to deny you of any badly needed light sleep that might set in even if you are not aware of it. When sleep begins to return to normal would be a better time to begin practicing those theories to avoid a return of any original sleep issues.

 

I agree with you. If I don't lay there, I don't know when sleep might hit me. Like last night, I went to bed at 11, I don't even think I went to sleep until like 3:30.

[[Lu...]]

I was in sleep restriction all throughout my taper. From my own experience, it’s not really helpful for someone suffering the chemical and physical affects of withdrawal. I do firmly believe it would help someone further out who found themselves struggling still. It made no difference for me. 

 

I do agree that taking those pills at such odd times might not be the best method, and going to bed so late might be costing you in much needed rest as well. If it’s possible, maybe retire at an earlier hour? Or try altering your night routine into something that focuses less on the interruptions. You might be feeding the fixation on sleep when you dose around your wake ups. It forces you to center on what sleep you aren’t getting as opposed to the sleep you are. Have you tried covering your clock faces and keeping anything that tells time out reach/sight? I find I rest better when I’m not watching the time like a hawk.

[[Gr...]]

Sleepless... anxiety can be a bear, I've been living with it the last few years and it went sky high once I went into withdrawal and started tapering in October 2015. This is how I've coped with it...

 

Distraction is huge with this problem - do whatever you can to put your mind on something else and not on how your feeling or what could happen etc. Watch TV, read, play games - you know what works for you.

 

Remind yourself constantly that THIS IS ONLY TEMPORARY AND WILL PASS. It's imperative that you get off these meds and the only way out is through. These symptoms are awful, but they will go away - but not if you keep taking the meds.

 

The symptoms also come and go so I tell myself that no matter how awful I feel at the moment, I will feel better - and it could be at any moment with this crazy ride.

 

Read all the positive posts here at BB that you can - they are so encouraging and show us all that no matter how bad it gets we can and will make it through this.

 

Stay away from the negative/scary postings - we have to focus on the positive and keep our minds in a good place. Ruminating on the negative and reading about other's hopeless postings won't do that and just drag you down.

 

Best of luck to you.