Short Term User Support Group

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In the last 3 days I’ve had some good windows.  One the night before last for a few hours, then last night for a few hours and then almost all day today.  Not perfect windows but pretty good ones.  Enough that I enjoyed my day.

 

Hey fluffer so nice to see you - i know exactly what you mean!  My mornings are brutal too.  Are you enjoying the evening windows?  Finally, right!

 

Hey sunshine.  Hugs to you. 

 

Hey warrior.  How is your little goblin tonight?

[[Wa...]]

Good morning from the French province

Had a good evening and then slept for about 6 hours straight.

Let's see how the day goes

 

JBen: I'm glad we revived it as well! It makes me feel safe and supported by all of you. The goblin was something else. A little monster full of rage. Had to use aromatherapy to get her to calm down and she is still sleeping so yay (she can be a really early bird. Its 6h45am).

 

Fluffer: thats how it is for me as well! The evening windows are a blessing! Usually thats when I can eat like a glutton and crash like a drunk sailor ahaha. Cheers to a better day, darling.

 

Sunshine: I really should start exercising more regularly. I tend to be really lazy and am a master procrastinator. I feel like stretching is a task. Being in bed brings me a lot of relief - my bedroom is my safe haven. Its not very beautiful out today but I will find an easy stretching video and have at it for 10 minutes.

 

[[Su...]]

Do us short term users do a more "rapid" withdrawal than others?  I am at.125 for this week and was going to keep trying to cut by 10 percent per week but wondering now if I can do maybe 15 percent per week?  Also, how far do we go down to?  I am having issues with the scale I have.  I don't really understand it.  It said mg when I bought it but it is in grams?  Any help? Thanks!

[[Wa...]]

Do us short term users do a more "rapid" withdrawal than others?  I am at.125 for this week and was going to keep trying to cut by 10 percent per week but wondering now if I can do maybe 15 percent per week?  Also, how far do we go down to?  I am having issues with the scale I have.  I don't really understand it.  It said mg when I bought it but it is in grams?  Any help? Thanks!

 

Morning! I'm not very educated in that department as I only have my own experience to go on. I did not taper so I have no good advice for you.

For the scale, is there an information sheet that came with it? Usually there is a button you press on it that switches from grams to mg. If you need help to figure it out, send me a PM, we'll find out the answer.

 

Andie, xx

 

Edit: typo

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It is 630 in California this morning.  That morning surge is the worst.  I couldnt sleep and then it started early at 2am.  Once it starts there is no rest - only anxiety, air hunger and exhaustion.  I am a zombie. Keeping positive today will be hard.

 

I can still tell this feeling is slightly less intense than 2 months ago.  It is VERY slight but enough to notice.

[[Wa...]]

It is 630 in California this morning.  That morning surge is the worst.  I couldnt sleep and then it started early at 2am.  Once it starts there is no rest - only anxiety, air hunger and exhaustion.  I am a zombie. Keeping positive today will be hard.

 

I can still tell this feeling is slightly less intense than 2 months ago.  It is VERY slight but enough to notice.

 

I am sending healing vibes, a bunch of hugs and positive light! I know you will make it through. You got this. It's a great thing that you can notice the difference even if it's minimal. You're healing! <3 Hit me up with a PM if you need company in your misery

[[su...]]

Do us short term users do a more "rapid" withdrawal than others?  I am at.125 for this week and was going to keep trying to cut by 10 percent per week but wondering now if I can do maybe 15 percent per week?  Also, how far do we go down to?  I am having issues with the scale I have.  I don't really understand it.  It said mg when I bought it but it is in grams?  Any help? Thanks!

 

SummerFun,

 

Hello there.  So sorry you are another short term victim to this drug.  Your question about rapid withdrawal is a good one as I don't think there is a straight forward answer here.  I think some people are able to fast taper off with minimal discomfort; others, however, are not so lucky.  I was one of those who was rapid tapered (but I didn't know it at the time that it was rapid) and become very destabilized, then panicked again because the nightmare I was in got worse.  I found BBs and did my best to stabilize then continued to taper at a slower pace, but panic still drove my decisions and I again tapered too fast even at the low dose I had gotten to; I was not listening to my body.  The good news is I made it off the benzo and am in a much better place now.  I'm not healed yet as still having sxs and waves, and I DO think that when I had stabilized, if my taper had been much slower and guided by my body and how I reacted, I believe I would be in a much better place today.  I know I will get there though because the improvements are happening. 

 

While you might be able to do a 15% cut a week, that really is a lot.  You have to listen to your body.  I would start lower on my cuts, see how you are doing and gauge from there.  The idea is to be functioning, maybe not wholly comfortable, but at least functioning.  I ended up jumping off at .05 which seems to be a recommended dosage around here of where to jump from Ativan.  Some will walk it all the way down to .01 if doing a DLMT (using liquid titration).  Although I had help from some Buddies in how to transition to liquid ativan and had all the calculations, I was too scared to add another element of change to the mix by changing to liquid, so I dry cut my way down.  It was tedious and so very frustrating because those scales can only go so low with accuracy.  It can be done though and many past and current Buddies here have dry cut their way down.  I used the Gemini-20 portable milligram scale.  Once I got down to crumbs around .08 mg, it became so much harder, but I knew from other Buddies that there is going to be inaccuracy anyways in pill form because of the fillers in pills, so you do the best you can. 

 

If you are stabile on that dose, I would start very slow with my drops, wait a week and see how you do.  If you are fairly stable and able to handle things, then go ahead and try the next drop.  Your body will let you know if you cut too much.  I know the strong desire to stop taking the drug and to get it out of your system, but my advice is to not let panic drive you in cutting too fast.  It's really a decision to make of how much you can handle and bear.  Also, how many times a day are you dosing?  Is it .125 total for the day that you are at where you only take one dose or are you cutting that .125 to dose multiple times a day? 

 

Wishing you much luck as you get off, AND you will get there. 

 

 

[[Su...]]

Thank you!

 

I take the .125 once a day around 9am.  I do feel like by the time almost 9am rolls around, my body wants it. Or maybe I am just imagining it.  I am a nervous person to begin with.

 

As for stabilizing, besides thinking about this all the time my daily symptoms on my taper are:

no appetite - make myself eat

some days hardly any sleep at night

a bit if a faster heart rate - again, not sure if this is drug or my personality

a bit if tinnitus that I only "feel" when I am lying down to sleep

 

Other that that, I can go for walks, watch tv, talk on phone (when needed) and do day to day chores.

 

Yes, the pill thing is making me nuts with this dry taper. Currently, I have cut the pills into 4ths -- I take 1/4 each morning - so half of a half or I hope .125.  My next drop by 10 percent should be next week - that is where the scale will help.  I have one but it says grams - not mg.

[[su...]]

Good morning Warrior and JBen!  My yucky wave is still here this morning, but I did manage sleep last night (woohoo!).  I also began my cycle so have the hormonal element as added bonus.  UGH. 

 

So sorry for the early am wake-up, JBen.  I hate that so much.  Agreed that the intensity of things is down from even a few months ago, so we need to focus on those positives.  My air hunger and anxiety are very present this morning as well, along with that nasty back of head/neck tension band, but I am hoping it will be one of those days where it eases up as evening approaches.  May yours improve as well. 

 

Warrior, hurray for a 6 hour stretch (mine was about the same).  I think some body stretching sound lovely as I don't think I'm pushing any kind of activity above a saunter today--I will have to see how the day progresses. 

[[Su...]]

Hi,

 

When you say you have bad days -- from your signature line, what does that look like?  No sleep?  Anxious?  Fast heart rate?

 

Please let me know.  Thanks!

[[I ...]]

Short termer here. 4 weeks klonopin. 20 months out. Loving this thread guys.  The light is becoming so much brighter. Wishing you all healing.

[Guest [fl...]]

I want my life back 76, I am so sorry if I keep asking you the same question. I am 6.5months out and really suffering. Was there a time when things were at least tolerable for you? I know everyone is different, but just curious.

[[su...]]

Thank you!

 

I take the .125 once a day around 9am.  I do feel like by the time almost 9am rolls around, my body wants it. Or maybe I am just imagining it.  I am a nervous person to begin with.

 

As for stabilizing, besides thinking about this all the time my daily symptoms on my taper are:

no appetite - make myself eat

some days hardly any sleep at night

a bit if a faster heart rate - again, not sure if this is drug or my personality

a bit if tinnitus that I only "feel" when I am lying down to sleep

 

Other that that, I can go for walks, watch tv, talk on phone (when needed) and do day to day chores.

 

Yes, the pill thing is making me nuts with this dry taper. Currently, I have cut the pills into 4ths -- I take 1/4 each morning - so half of a half or I hope .125.  My next drop by 10 percent should be next week - that is where the scale will help.  I have one but it says grams - not mg.

 

Okay, you actually sound like you are in a decent place, SummerFun, especially if you are only dosing Ativan once a day (it has a very fast half-life so many of us were in positions of dosing twice or three times a day because of interdose withdrawal--I dosed 3 times a day).  Make sure you keep taking your dose at the same time each day too.  These symptoms are all part and parcel of the benzo withdrawal experience, even the constant obsessing over the symptoms.  I understand it's still not fun to be experiencing any symptoms at all, but if you can come to peace with them, just acknowledge that they are there and part of this process, you should do just fine continuing to taper off, hopefully with a much quicker recovery time. 

 

Yes, the accuracy of cutting is very difficult, especially with the 1 mg Ativan pills, but the scale will help.  You'll need a razor blade too if you don't already have one to help shave off things once you get lower.  The little crumbs are so very infuriating, but we do what we have to do to get off. 

 

 

[[su...]]

Short termer here. 4 weeks klonopin. 20 months out. Loving this thread guys.  The light is becoming so much brighter. Wishing you all healing.

 

  Thank you for joining in and giving us some light in the future of healing!

[[Su...]]

My scale says it is grams -- but the Gemini-20 portable milligram scale. is what I bought.  When I do the mode function, I don't see MG, can you help?

 

 

[Guest [fl...]]

It should say 0.0000 when you have grams. 1.0 is 1 gram (1000mg), 0.1 is 100mg, 0.01 is 10mg, 0.001 is 1mg

[[Su...]]

So, .1125 would be my next step next week -- what should that say on the scale we have?

[[su...]]

Hi,

 

When you say you have bad days -- from your signature line, what does that look like?  No sleep?  Anxious?  Fast heart rate?

 

Please let me know.  Thanks!

 

Not sure if this was directed to anyone in particular, but my bad days currently at nearly 8 months off can include different things, but it's the chemical anxiety and depression feeling for me along with heavy cog fog that are the worst (I describe this as my brain suddenly feels like it is slowing down in processing, like going from WiFi to dial-up--it sucks), but my cog fog now doesn't stay the entire day, it waxes and wanes.  Only when the heavy chemical anxiety/depression coincides with it do I consider it a "bad day."  So really, I've come a long ways.  Other things are more physical, like overall fatigue, muscle soreness/tightness, burning sensations in skin, internal tremor, tingling or paresthesia in hands and feet, headaches, etc... but these things don't get to me much anymore in the sense that I have accepted them when they are here and can handle them much better than the "mental" stuff.  Everything is also much less in severity when it does show up, like it's been toned down many notches.  I also am having many more windows with longer stretches where I feel nearly wholly me again without any symptoms (save a couple minor ones in background).  Everyone is a little different in their symptoms, but I can say that once my sleep started coming back, I began seeing more improvements overall in my baseline. 

 

As for your scale, that is the one I had.  It will not give you a mg in the mode function.  You will use in in gram function.  It's the decimal points that will be your guide for getting you where you need.  Here is a video to just orient yourself on how to use a scale including calibrating it.

It's not specific for Lorazepam/Ativan pills but it gives a pretty good feel for the process at least. 

 

If you haven't already, I would reach out to the planning a taper board as well if you are still struggling with the scale or even the tapering off Ativan support thread to see if anyone is currently dry cutting there as well.  I will need to go back to my notes to remember the formulations I used (it makes a difference what the weight of your pills are, too--not the dosage--so you'll want to take an average weight of them first).  I'll come back later with some more insight once I can find my notes. 

[[Su...]]

Hi,

 

So you at first jumped at .5mg of Ativan and then the second time you went all the way down to .05 before jumping, correct?  Did you step down 10 percent each week?

 

Thanks for the symptom info.  I do feel a bit nervous today but have this on my mind plus I am an overall nervous person.  lol.  Did just go for a walk, laundry, fed pets and took a car ride.  I think these are all good signs that my taper on .125 is going ok.  I will try to step down on Monday morning. 

 

Thanks for the info on the scale.  Any advise if I took the quarters I have (.125) weighed each quarter and then just took a shave off with a razor on each one, re-weighed to make sure all the same and did it that way? 

[[su...]]

Hi,

 

So you at first jumped at .5mg of Ativan and then the second time you went all the way down to .05 before jumping, correct?  Did you step down 10 percent each week?

 

Thanks for the symptom info.  I do feel a bit nervous today but have this on my mind plus I am an overall nervous person.  lol.  Did just go for a walk, laundry, fed pets and took a car ride.  I think these are all good signs that my taper on .125 is going ok.  I will try to step down on Monday morning. 

 

Thanks for the info on the scale.  Any advise if I took the quarters I have (.125) weighed each quarter and then just took a shave off with a razor on each one, re-weighed to make sure all the same and did it that way?

 

My first experience with Ativan was over 10 years ago and I took it for sleep and palpitations but only as needed, so over the course of maybe 2 years did I use a full prescription.  It truly was sporadic use and I had no issues.  It was when I was prescribed it this last summer that I began consecutive use and had a terrible time (began with Xanax but ended with Ativan).  It happened very quickly too.  I used consecutively for a few days but didn't see any help. Then I stopped.  Things began to feel worse then and my Dr said to start again that I wasn't getting therapeutic value from it and wanted to up my dose (I said no). When I stopped it again a few days later I ended in the ER.  They switched me to Ativan there and I was told to only take as needed again.  Which I did and ended highly destabilized as the interdose withdrawal became worse.  I finally stabilized with equal dosing on the Ativan but after a week I began the Dr's taper which was WAY to fast.  Didn't know it and was doing okay until it all caught up with me the following week.  That's when the poop really hit the fan and I was again very destabilized.  I was down to taking .25 2xs a day at that point and was too scared to updose, so I I stayed at that dosage but spread it out to 3xs a day again.  Got a little more stable (really I wasn't) then began tapering again at what I thought was a slower pace (it wasn't).  One more time I ended up destabilized (the akathisia was horrible) and took another 2 weeks to stabilize before walking down the rest of the way.  I didn't step down 10% a week until after that final destabilization (I knew I couldn't survive any more of that so I took the holding very seriously at that point and slowed it down).  So really I was dropping around 25% every three days at beginning (VERY BAD).  It wasn't the best at the end but I was somewhat functioning again. 

 

Yes, I would say you are doing very well all things considered (again this is not to diminish how awful I know you feel, but believe me when I say it can be much worse). 

 

I don't see why you couldn't do the just the shaving off method as I believe I knew another Ativan Buddie when I was tapering who did just that (she didn't use a scale at all, just eyeballed it the whole way down).  The idea is consistency and slowly going down.  The more accurate you are, I would imagine the best results, but if you are managing things okay and can function (even if with anxiety and uncomfortable symptoms), then that works too. 

[[Su...]]

Thanks for the info.  Seems like you and I are a lot of alike with our stories -- both did too quick of a taper and ended up really with a lot of akathisia. I was shaking so bad the first time I did the rapid taper (wasn't thinking, just wanted it out!).  I had such bad anxiety and trouble - I had to go back on and taper.  And that is where I am today.  Sunday will be one week of being on .125.  I am almost scared to go lower!  I will do the 10 percent or as close to it as possible.  If I don't get any scale help -- I will do the 1/4's shaved down and weighed and keep track that week and shave a bit off each week step down.  Not sure when I will or can jump but will take it slow.  Hate having this poison in me but no other way.

 

What dose did you finally jump at? Did you do the 10 percent cuts each week for several weeks? When you did your final tapering, what does did you start at? I am wondering if mine at .125 is too low but I seem to function, besides the sleep issue, ok during the day.  Not happy by any means but can do things and not shake or have depression or anything like that.

[[Wa...]]

I was in a positive state of mind when I woke up. Then it all came crashing down.

 

I'm angry, sad, depressed, anxious, crying (bawling my eyes out like one of those reality TV women) and wondering when this is going to end. Emotionally, I can't function properly or make a logic based decision either. I feel like a terrible mother, wife, woman and human. Heck, I'm gonna add Alien in there cause I AM OUT OF THIS WORLD LADIES AND GENTS  :idiot:   So many feelings and thoughts. I can almost feel the blood pacing in my veins cause the oxygen in my body can't keep up with me.

 

I need this to be over. For my sake, my daughters sake and everyone else around me as well. I'm a wreck. Someone save me. 

 

Andie, xx

[[I ...]]

I want my life back 76, I am so sorry if I keep asking you the same question. I am 6.5months out and really suffering. Was there a time when things were at least tolerable for you? I know everyone is different, but just curious.

At 20 months everything is tolerable now. I am able to do everything I did before this mess. I started noticing at about 15 months but symptoms were still pretty bad at times. You'll get there fluff.

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Hey Andie.  This situation we are is really, really terrible.  I am struggling with you today.  Like really struggling.

 

The withdrawals are telling you lies.  It is evil that way.  Dont let it get the best of you.  I know this really sucks - can I use that word.  You are an amazing human, woman, wife and mother.  I’ve seen proof in the way you write your posts!

 

I am using distraction today even tho it is really hard.  I am suffering miserably today but I am making some bread and attending some meetings.  I am planning a pie later today if things go from really bad to super bad.  It makes all these crazy symptoms fall just a little into the background.  I am a zombie but I am making myself do it.

 

This will be over eventually.  We will celebrate!!

[[Wa...]]

Thank you JBen. I really do appreciate your kind words. I'm trying to distract myself but all I really want to do is sleep. ;p Counting the minutes for nap time!

 

I hope you feel better soon. We got this.

 

Andie, xx