so kindled and sick failed detox failed reinstatement

[[JJ...]]

I'm so sorry for you and what you are going through.  Try to be strong. Is there any other mess (non benzos that may help? Maybe thc/cbd? ). I really hope u feel better

[[li...]]

'How do you taper if you are indeed in severe tolerance withdrawl. That seems impossible'

 

If it is just that ... Prof Ashton says that there is no way but out in the case of tolerance withdrawal. It's going to be there as long as you're taking the drug. 'just taper slowly'.

 

I'm not sure it's toleance W/D, I have no clue although I suspect something about the methadone ...

It's indeed a mess you're in.

 

Typically, the objective of a psych hospital is to get you stabilized and out as soon as possible ... which may not be the best course of action !

[[Ja...]]

I read about cogentin and high doses of Benadryl to help w Akathesia

I don't know how it interacts w other things

But Akathesia is clearly connected to the meds and once they are out of your system things can reset

I wish they could do a detox if u can't stabilize on the meds and then give you flumanezil or something (?) Torrington mentioned this.

 

[[Hi...]]

g im 29 years old and im in so sobmuch torment agony. I already wwent through all the phenobarbital long taper and it was hell i was off for six months and basically the akathisia got so bad that i diddnt knowwhat was happening cuz i thought ivwas getting better and then i endedup in hospital they put me back on ativan at 6mg im on 7.5 now and in a mixture of tolerancewithdrawaland benzos make me sick im basically in full-blown withdrawal on stable dose so idk how to taper i have waves thatare ccompletely psychotic im in extreme terror and torment my soul is tortured i feel insane dobyou ever feel that its not anxiety or panic attacks its ter and soul torment? My brainflips and tells me things like my pperception of reality change where my beliefs are not rational but they are to me. Mostly about my symptoms and whats happening in my body and with receptors and other health problems but its not just thoughts its whst is actually happening at the moment and it has to stop because the level of the agony is too much to bare at one time.

 

Anyways im in hospital till the figure out what to do with me they want me to transfer to psych slash detox facility but ive detoxed so many times thast im sovkindles my nervoussystem is just fried the neuropathyand burning and physical sickness and photophobia and hyperacusis are unbearable. I cant stop peeing i need off the meds. They are increasing my gabapentin but im scared that i wont becsble to heal while taking it. The methadone also.

 

My brain and body dont tolerate other meds or even foods now but what do i do do i go to a psych facility and trying to stabilize? You cant stabilize on meds when you in withdrawal though.... or paradoxical i dont think.

 

While here ibtried to cross to kpin and it was paradoxical bad

 

So they gave me 12mg of ativan! I couldn't refuse part of it only all of it so i had to take ot not have ant benzos for the day

 

So now im worried about rebound. I dont knowwhat to do to get throgh this theres really only a couple optiond detox or try to find psych meds that help stabilize me or make this more bearable  or taper slowly at home but im so sick i cant take care of myself or handle symptoms of a taper i know nobody can tell me how to fix tgis but whatvshould i do discuss with my doc in hospital right now in orser to come up with a plan to get off? It seems like the people withe deep neuropathy nerve damage r the ones that are protracted for years. Im back on the 7.5mg a day but that is massive tolerance wd im still overloaded from yesterday and sems like when the methadone wears off thats when my brain flips and my thinking and rationality change and akathisia get bad and i think im paradoxical now at least partly or the benzos are just aggravated my  broken nervous system underneath i never healed from before so its all underneath

 

Is there really no options for me? I know this is going to be extremely painful i just dont know if it better to detox again and start healing just cant handlethe symptoms of akathisiaanddysphoria or taper slowly which would take years and ill still be in torment hell akathisiaand terror the whole time i try to taper  or what drugs i can try to help and if i can and def will heal while taking gabapentin because of the nerve pain and trayma and it affects the hypothalamus and benzos withdrawal when kindeled is not just about gaba and glutamate receptors going back to normal.

[[sc...]]

Cogentin should help with the akathisia, I know a lot of people it helped

[[Ja...]]

Yes I would ask about the cogentin

I really personally don't think gabapentin is that bad

I haven't taken it in years but it's way better than benzo which are not working at this point.

When you were 6 mos off were u still on the methadone? Was it worse than it is now?

Did they put you on methadone for the Akathesia or bc of previous drug use?

I know the brain resets. You sound lucid and clear and smart

I have felt the terror and torment you are talking about and obsession about health bc every symptoms is driving you crazy and mindfucking you. My mentor in recovery has been thru benzo hell. He was in the ICU for 4 mos then tapered benzos then cold turkeyed pain pills. He's hard core. He keeps telling me stop feeding the fears. He says 50 percent is in the mind 50 percent in the body. But Akathesia is a particular thing, it runs in my family. My dad was non functional for a year getting off Valium and trying Prozac. My mentor said the benzo mess with your head.. Like totally fuck w your mind and torment you. He said opiod w/d is more physical while benzo is hell bc of the mental crap. I get it. It's horrifying. Remember it's not you. Remember when you were a little boy and happy (?) when you had moments of peace.. Keep replaying the peaceful thoughts over and over and replacing these scary ones. Use insight timer app. Meditate and listen to positive stuff 24/7 on your phone if u can. The docs will take care of you. Hang in there.

That is why you need someone- someone's hand, a voice, some reassurance that this will pass and you will be taken care of somehow some way.

I would say hell no to any more Benzos

What's the harm in trying Benedryl or cogentin? I have the burning right now I totally get it but not on your level. Idk what I would do its so freaking awful.

Don't give in to the negative voices that are scaring the crap out of you.

There was someone on here who detoxed and was psychotic for 45 days but pulled out of it.

Maybe there is a way to taper methadone or a way off that? Idk much about it. I think you need someone skilled and someone who thinks out of the box.

I wish they could consult w Torrington. He seems to know his stuff. Crazy about the story re: Kenn Starr

His work NAD works with opioids and alcohol the best. Makes no promises about benzos.

A couple of days ago u sounded like u felt better on gabapentin. Don't freak yourself out about taking that bc u need something to help you cope now. Just avoid more benzos in my opinion.

We are ALL rooting for you Chris.

Praying for a miracle. Maybe they have a reiki hands on healer in the hospital? Anyone that can provide comfort right now and a light at the end of this darkness you are enduring.

It is too much torment. You will get thru this. Many on these boards have. I read a success story recently that horrified and inspired me.

Sending healing

[[Hi...]]

Does lamictal help with anything? Its something i been looking into trying with doc. Ill ask about gogentin but this is a litthe more different thsn a movement disorder its the need to march and pace restlessness but also severe torment of the soul which is somehow related to the akathisia i might go up on the gaba while coming off benzos idk klonopin didnt work. Im scared....they want to ship me off tonpsych ward ive been im hospital for a week but they just babysitting me

[[Hi...]]

Thank you jackson ya gogentin is more for movement disorder from antipsychotics they want me to start zyprexa.... yikes. The docs here dont knowwhat they are doing im basically waiting to be sent to a psych ward where they will try to load me up on psych meds to stop my symptoms that they say isnt benzo withdrawal because im on benzos. I onlyhave two ooptions really ct or taper...

 

No i was not on methadone last time and the akathisia was not as bad it actually started getting really bad when i stsrted stopping pain pills after six months off i was experimenting with pain pills which helped my symptoms not taking a lot but then the akathisia hitv bad after i stopped so ya the methadone might be doing somethingvbut i cant get off the methadone till im somewhat stable methadone wdis like 3 months long and im already in soooo much pain but well see i know methadone does somi cuz i feel better for fewchours after i take it then brain flips on me and get deoressed been thinking about stopping methadone and switching to like morphine or something shorter acting and detoxing thst so wd only lasts a couple weeks not now though

[[Ja...]]

My doc mentioned lamictal bc it counters glutamate over excitability he said

It helps with obsessive looping in the brain I heard

For some it's a miracle

I know many ppl on it and it's good for underlying mood d/o

Zyprexa can calm stress responses down and they typically give it in hospital setting

That is stupid that they say this isn't benzo bc u are on benzos

I don't agree

A doc said that to me too about my burning but I think it's ignorance

Once u have kindled the nervous system is in shock and so u can still have sxs while on benzo. Is my understanding? Idk,

I'd try Benadryl before xyprexa or if u are ok as is just do nothing and let them babysit you which is better than being at home alone

This is terrible sorry u are going thru this

I would get off the hard core stuff if possible at some point

Did they mention ketamine for a reset of neurotransmitters? That is the other thing my doc told me. All scary I know. Again not giving medical advice. They need an addiction person there to guide you

Praying

[[li...]]

Highly speculative: methadone raises dopamine (initially), but between doses/tolerance/for whatever reason, it lowers dopamine and increases acetylcholine, which could cause akathisia.

Again, oversimplified and highly speculative.

 

Have you actually tried the Cogentin ?

[[Hi...]]

Whats up with glutamate from kindling? Can glutamate cause akathisia? about glutamate durring this whole thing and if glutamate will calm down durring tappering even if massively kindled.

also if on like methadone which suppresses glutamate will glutamate levels calm down after detox or durring tapering even if you are so kindled that holding symptoms are like ct symptoms

 

I know the gabapentin helps because of ampa suppression

 

Is the nerve pain from glutamate storms? Ive read that kindling can continue even after off benzos if glutamate toxicity is too severe its the same with seizure disorders seizures cause kindling creating more seizures so.. anyone please help me understand this

 

Cuz im debating taking glutamate supressors while detoxing or tapering but then if you stop thosecthey will be a rebound in glutamate. Will glutamate receptors eventually turn to normal? Even if you are severely kindled i see so many people with massive nerve pain and burning years years after this is from glutamate and glutamate toxicity kills nerve cells i know some people get better and it goes away but i really need help understand this is this why the gabapentin helps i hope it doesnt keep me from healing in that respect

 

 

[[Hi...]]

TYhey are discharging me from the hospital today i am going back to my apartment they could not do anything for me. Or send ne anywhere. Thatnk you liberty i agree the methadone hss somethingvto do thith the akathisia bucuz when i take it it does get better i haven't hsd it in a while im still suffering they coulf not find anyplace for me to go i know i need to taper off these drugs but i dont know how to get stsble

 

Some people cant benzos withdrawal symptoms are not from under gaba activity its from glutamate overactivity and so that explaind why more benzos dont help but i need to know if i can recover while takink glutamate supressants when you are severely kindled because kindling has to do with overactive glutamate so just like benzos receptors cant return to normal while taking gaba agonists doesnt that mean that glutamate receptors cant downregulate while taking antagonists? Can someone please answer that

[[Ja...]]

I think you need a doctor to answer those questions

And when I talked w the psychiatrist dr Mesteyar he said many didn't understand benzos or why some ppl react the way they do or how to heal. The NAD can strengthen the mitochondria and Kenn Starr uses it when ppl are still on medications or tapering just to get someone healthier. Mesteyar recommended several treatments like 3 or 4... Worth calling Kenn Starr he has an addiction program too.

Idk Chris

San Fernando valley community mental health has many intensive outpatient services.

They might have addiction services too.

Other rehabs but they cost money is Avalon where dr Torrington is affiliated with.

It would be great if someone could give u a scholarship to one of these places or if somehow you could get some $ to go.. If you are detoxed idk it sounds like you were in awful shape after that. Is the Akathesia bad now or improved? Can u lie down? If so then intensive outpatient would be a good place to start. Or u tell them u are harm to self and other and then they send u to psych hospital.

Wishing u the best

All the glutamate questions I can't answer .. I don't even know that doctors know

A neuropsychiatrist might be the person to contact. Maybe someone at UCLA or google neuro psychiatrists in the areA. Call you psych doc and tell him how desperate u are and u need to be kept in the hospital period. Good luck

[[De...]]

Hey bro , your options are If ur really having a pardoxical effect From benzos you should do something that i told you above

If changing the brand of the benzos didnt help, And if keep taking will just keep you in constantly tolerance withdrawal you should do something , Like , keep on a high dose of gabapetin , Maybe depakote

 

  i heard that lamictal its an anti-convulsant too , but i had i hard time getting off from it even being just a week or so on it .

 

Lyrica its known to kill the exess of glutamate or regulate the glutamate overactivity ( but its very expensive ) and you would have a way to get it 4 free , idk how because im not from your country , but by the law here , if the medicine is really for ur need , u get it for free by the law

 

Anyway , first you already taking congentin , biperiden , or something for  the akhatisia ? we are telling you to do that , and i ddint saw ur answer if u already trying it or no

 

second if ur havinf paradoxical effects from the benzos the only way its dropping them quicky as you can handle , and by doing that you would need support and be taking a high dose of an anticonvulsant for the risk of a seizure

 

And if its not from the benzo particullary , maybe the methadone is reving you up ? you need to decide to do something and do bro , we cant be giving you insights of what to do if ur not going to try or decide what you will do

 

I think you should stick in just one topic too , so it will be better for understand all thats happening and it will be easy for you to regroup all the information and insights people are giving to you

 

Im just talking all this for the best of you , you should decide whats the best way to go , let us know so we can have a insight of it will be a good decision ot the best decision to go , and do it .

 

wish you better dayz bro 

[[Hi...]]

Thank you im at psychiatrist now i dont think im completely paradoxical just to the klonopin but more ativan helped but the akathisia isnt all the time so everything i have is in waves but i cant figure out whst to do gogentin helps with akathisia from antipsychotics but it doesnt help for withdrawal and its not just physical akathisia like the movement disorder its inner torment and turmoil like i have to escape my body im at the psychiatrist right now but they arent helping me they think im just a drug addict and have mental problems