Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[We...]]

Hi Guys, I put together this list of stuff I purchased on amazon to use with my diluting and titrating. It may be helpful to people who are starting out and trying to figure out where to get some of this stuff. It is not the final word on the subject by any means. It's just what I have used myself. I spent a lot of time hunting on amazon in my early days of tapering, so perhaps someone will be spared some time and energy by having these links. Feel free to copy and paste it but, if you do, please include the notes, not just the links.

 

 

My Supplies for Dilution and Titration

 

 

1ml syringes marked at .02 intervals that come with caps. Easy to see the exact dose. Can be carried tip down in purse or pocket carefully if the plunger is not pulled back very far. Note: syringes will lose their markings and get harder to use as they get older. This is typical. Sometimes people think syringes have needles and look concerned when they see me with it. I say, "Don't worry, it has no needle; it's an oral syringe, like you would use to give medicine to a baby or a cat." Then they understand and look relieved.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Y6JK2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

30ml (very small) amber bottles with rubber seals so they don't leak. Good for carrying a small dose that is too big to fit in a syringe. Also less scary-looking than a syringe.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4ABY4E?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

10ml syringes that I find hard to use for measuring meds because of the design of the plunger. I use them for storing and carrying a small amount of water to use for rinsing the tiny bottles after dosing (and drinking the rinse water to be sure nothing is left behind). These also come with caps.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OABXLOM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

100ml amber glass jar for storing dilution. Holds 100ml but very close to top of jar. Not good for shaking. It will leak. Nice wide top makes it easy to draw out a dose with your syringe. Nice wide top allows bits of dust to fall in.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QNILTW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

50ml graduated cylinder. It's glass. I've knocked it over a few times but it hasn't broken. Some people buy 2 just in case. It seems to be very close to accurate. I use it to measure the water part of the dilution.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006UKIAJW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

100ml graduated cylinder by the same company. I haven't actually used this size, myself, but many people do.

http://www.amazon.com/213I12-Karter-Scientific-Graduated-Cylinder/dp/B006UKIASI/ref=pd_sim_328_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=09M84H793FJXQYDY00F7

 

 

Note: Sometimes a product on amazon gets changed by the manufacturer, so it's a good idea to read over the description and make sure it is still the same product. If amazon sends you a product that does not match their description, they will accept the return and pay for the shipping, too. I always make sure the product is sold by amazon or fulfilled by amazon rather than an outside vendor who is advertising on amazon. Because of this, I've never had trouble with an amazon return.

 

this is super helpful, Gardener. Thanks!

 

 

[[ga...]]

Needing math and chemistry gurus!

 

I have decided to attempt a slow, careful crossover from Xanax to Librium so I don't have to dose so often. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a complicated micro taper and the math is way over my head. Here's where I'll be tomorrow:

 

3AM  .18

7AM  .18

11AM .176

3PM  .18

7PM  .17

11PM .18

 

They were all .18 and I have been micro tapering them down one at a time to .17. You can see I am in an odd place.

 

According to Ashton .5X=25L.

 

My doctor just wrote a script for Librium and agreed I could try a gradual cross over and see him in a month.

I get dizzy trying to figure out how to do this. I think I should leave the weird doses the way they are and sub the Librium into the .18 doses, right?

 

I found this chart comparing onset and peak and half life.

http://www.vhpharmsci.com/vhformulary/tools/benzodiazepines-comparison.htm

 

Ashton starts with subbing Valium at bedtime. But Librium has a slower onset and a later peak than Valium or Xanax. Since this was prescribed for insomnia, a slower onset at bedtime would not be the best place to start, right? Maybe start with the 3PM dose and just have an unpleasant afternoon?

 

My doctor wrote the script to dose 3 times/day, so I will be dropping doses. I find that process confusing, too, especially since I am in weird place in my micro taper.

 

My daughter is with me this week and I want to start while she is here in case this goes badly. She can keep track of my doses and help me adjust if I'm not sleeping and can't figure out how to do it.

 

Finally, does anyone know if it's true that Librium is water soluble? And could I have the directions for making a dilution with a 25mg tablet?

 

Thank you!!

 

[[bu...]]

 

 

1ml syringes marked at .02 intervals that come with caps. Easy to see the exact dose. Can be carried tip down in purse or pocket carefully if the plunger is not pulled back very far. Note: syringes will lose their markings and get harder to use as they get older. This is typical. Sometimes people think syringes have needles and look concerned when they see me with it. I say, "Don't worry, it has no needle; it's an oral syringe, like you would use to give medicine to a baby or a cat." Then they understand and look relieved.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Y6JK2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

50ml graduated cylinder. It's glass. I've knocked it over a few times but it hasn't broken. Some people buy 2 just in case.

Note: Sometimes a product on amazon gets changed by the manufacturer, so it's a good idea to read over the description and make sure it is still the same product. If amazon sends you a product that does not match their description, they will accept the return and pay for the shipping, too. I always make sure the product is sold by amazon or fulfilled by amazon rather than an outside vendor who is advertising on amazon. Because of this, I've never had trouble with an amazon return.

 

 

1) A piece of clear tape ("scotch" tape) over the numbers will fix that.

 

2) Plastic ones are really unbreakable.

[[ga...]]

 

 

1ml syringes marked at .02 intervals that come with caps. Easy to see the exact dose. Can be carried tip down in purse or pocket carefully if the plunger is not pulled back very far. Note: syringes will lose their markings and get harder to use as they get older. This is typical. Sometimes people think syringes have needles and look concerned when they see me with it. I say, "Don't worry, it has no needle; it's an oral syringe, like you would use to give medicine to a baby or a cat." Then they understand and look relieved.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Y6JK2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

50ml graduated cylinder. It's glass. I've knocked it over a few times but it hasn't broken. Some people buy 2 just in case.

Note: Sometimes a product on amazon gets changed by the manufacturer, so it's a good idea to read over the description and make sure it is still the same product. If amazon sends you a product that does not match their description, they will accept the return and pay for the shipping, too. I always make sure the product is sold by amazon or fulfilled by amazon rather than an outside vendor who is advertising on amazon. Because of this, I've never had trouble with an amazon return.

 

 

1) A piece of clear tape ("scotch" tape) over the numbers will fix that.

 

2) Plastic ones are really unbreakable.

 

Good idea about the tape!

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

Needing math and chemistry gurus!

 

I have decided to attempt a slow, careful crossover from Xanax to Librium so I don't have to dose so often. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a complicated micro taper and the math is way over my head. Here's where I'll be tomorrow:

 

3AM  .18

7AM  .18

11AM .176

3PM  .18

7PM  .17

11PM .18

 

They were all .18 and I have been micro tapering them down one at a time to .17. You can see I am in an odd place.

 

According to Ashton .5X=25L.

 

My doctor just wrote a script for Librium and agreed I could try a gradual cross over and see him in a month.

I get dizzy trying to figure out how to do this. I think I should leave the weird doses the way they are and sub the Librium into the .18 doses, right?

 

I found this chart comparing onset and peak and half life.

http://www.vhpharmsci.com/vhformulary/tools/benzodiazepines-comparison.htm

 

Ashton starts with subbing Valium at bedtime. But Librium has a slower onset and a later peak than Valium or Xanax. Since this was prescribed for insomnia, a slower onset at bedtime would not be the best place to start, right? Maybe start with the 3PM dose and just have an unpleasant afternoon?

 

My doctor wrote the script to dose 3 times/day, so I will be dropping doses. I find that process confusing, too, especially since I am in weird place in my micro taper.

 

My daughter is with me this week and I want to start while she is here in case this goes badly. She can keep track of my doses and help me adjust if I'm not sleeping and can't figure out how to do it.

 

Finally, does anyone know if it's true that Librium is water soluble? And could I have the directions for making a dilution with a 25mg tablet?

 

Thank you!!

 

The Librium in water thing is a discrepancy that Anne and I have recently discussed.  People in the past have apparently used plain water to dissolve it, and Anne has a source that says water will hold up to 2mg/ml.  But the Jouyban data disagrees and puts Librium only slightly better at dissolving in water than other benzos.  The safe bet is to treat it like the other benzos and use the alcohol/water method.  That way you are covered.

 

Since you are going from liquid to liquid you are in a very flexible position and could cross a few percent at a time if you wanted.  This should make it a smoother cross.  Or you can do it the standard way in bigger chunks.  Going from liquid to liquid is a great situation to be in when crossing.

[[ga...]]

Needing math and chemistry gurus!

 

I have decided to attempt a slow, careful crossover from Xanax to Librium so I don't have to dose so often. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a complicated micro taper and the math is way over my head. Here's where I'll be tomorrow:

 

3AM  .18

7AM  .18

11AM .176

3PM  .18

7PM  .17

11PM .18

 

They were all .18 and I have been micro tapering them down one at a time to .17. You can see I am in an odd place.

 

According to Ashton .5X=25L.

 

My doctor just wrote a script for Librium and agreed I could try a gradual cross over and see him in a month.

I get dizzy trying to figure out how to do this. I think I should leave the weird doses the way they are and sub the Librium into the .18 doses, right?

 

I found this chart comparing onset and peak and half life.

http://www.vhpharmsci.com/vhformulary/tools/benzodiazepines-comparison.htm

 

Ashton starts with subbing Valium at bedtime. But Librium has a slower onset and a later peak than Valium or Xanax. Since this was prescribed for insomnia, a slower onset at bedtime would not be the best place to start, right? Maybe start with the 3PM dose and just have an unpleasant afternoon?

 

My doctor wrote the script to dose 3 times/day, so I will be dropping doses. I find that process confusing, too, especially since I am in weird place in my micro taper.

 

My daughter is with me this week and I want to start while she is here in case this goes badly. She can keep track of my doses and help me adjust if I'm not sleeping and can't figure out how to do it.

 

Finally, does anyone know if it's true that Librium is water soluble? And could I have the directions for making a dilution with a 25mg tablet?

 

Thank you!!

 

The Librium in water thing is a discrepancy that Anne and I have recently discussed.  People in the past have apparently used plain water to dissolve it, and Anne has a source that says water will hold up to 2mg/ml.  But the Jouyban data disagrees and puts Librium only slightly better at dissolving in water than other benzos.  The safe bet is to treat it like the other benzos and use the alcohol/water method.  That way you are covered.

 

Since you are going from liquid to liquid you are in a very flexible position and could cross a few percent at a time if you wanted.  This should make it a smoother cross.  Or you can do it the standard way in bigger chunks.  Going from liquid to liquid is a great situation to be in when crossing.

 

Thanks SG. I will go with the alcohol/water.

 

So would that be one 25mg tablet dissolved in 2ml of 80 proof vodka plus water to make 100ml? (Could I get away with 50ml so I don't have such a large dose to carry around with me?)

And if I wanted to substitute half of my 3PM dose, that would be .09mg Xanax (diluted, of course) plus how much of the new liquid Librium?

 

Thanks!

[[...]]

Needing math and chemistry gurus!

 

I have decided to attempt a slow, careful crossover from Xanax to Librium so I don't have to dose so often. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a complicated micro taper and the math is way over my head. Here's where I'll be tomorrow:

 

3AM  .18

7AM  .18

11AM .176

3PM  .18

7PM  .17

11PM .18

 

They were all .18 and I have been micro tapering them down one at a time to .17. You can see I am in an odd place.

 

According to Ashton .5X=25L.

 

My doctor just wrote a script for Librium and agreed I could try a gradual cross over and see him in a month.

I get dizzy trying to figure out how to do this. I think I should leave the weird doses the way they are and sub the Librium into the .18 doses, right?

 

I found this chart comparing onset and peak and half life.

http://www.vhpharmsci.com/vhformulary/tools/benzodiazepines-comparison.htm

 

Ashton starts with subbing Valium at bedtime. But Librium has a slower onset and a later peak than Valium or Xanax. Since this was prescribed for insomnia, a slower onset at bedtime would not be the best place to start, right? Maybe start with the 3PM dose and just have an unpleasant afternoon?

 

My doctor wrote the script to dose 3 times/day, so I will be dropping doses. I find that process confusing, too, especially since I am in weird place in my micro taper.

 

My daughter is with me this week and I want to start while she is here in case this goes badly. She can keep track of my doses and help me adjust if I'm not sleeping and can't figure out how to do it.

 

Finally, does anyone know if it's true that Librium is water soluble? And could I have the directions for making a dilution with a 25mg tablet?

 

Thank you!!

 

The Librium in water thing is a discrepancy that Anne and I have recently discussed.  People in the past have apparently used plain water to dissolve it, and Anne has a source that says water will hold up to 2mg/ml.  But the Jouyban data disagrees and puts Librium only slightly better at dissolving in water than other benzos.  The safe bet is to treat it like the other benzos and use the alcohol/water method.  That way you are covered.

 

Since you are going from liquid to liquid you are in a very flexible position and could cross a few percent at a time if you wanted.  This should make it a smoother cross.  Or you can do it the standard way in bigger chunks.  Going from liquid to liquid is a great situation to be in when crossing.

 

Thanks SG. I will go with the alcohol/water.

 

So would that be one 25mg tablet dissolved in 2ml of 80 proof vodka plus water to make 100ml? (Could I get away with 50ml so I don't have such a large dose to carry around with me?)

And if I wanted to substitute half of my 3PM dose, that would be .09mg Xanax (diluted, of course) plus how much of the new liquid Librium?

 

Thanks!

 

Librium looks like this...water dissolves .11mg/ml.  And 80 proof will dissolve 2.89mg/ml.  That means to dissolve 25mg in 80 proof you would need 9ml and to keep it dissolved in water you would need 228ml water (minus the 9ml alcohol).  This is going by the Jouyban data.  Hmmm...the problem is you are dissolving A LOT of Librium so you need a lot of liquid.  The other benzos come in much smaller sizes so only need to dissolve a little.  I did not expect this.  I've never worked with Librium before.  It will work, just requires a lot of liquid.  I'd probably switch to 150 proof alcohol and use 3ml.  150 proof gets you up around 25mg/ml so no problem there and much less alcohol.  Then to make sure there is enough water I might go to 300ml or higher (I don't like operating near the margins).

 

Concentration-wise you are fine.  You could do 25mg L in 250ml total liquid.

 

Does Librium come in a 5mg size?

[[ga...]]

Needing math and chemistry gurus!

 

I have decided to attempt a slow, careful crossover from Xanax to Librium so I don't have to dose so often. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a complicated micro taper and the math is way over my head. Here's where I'll be tomorrow:

 

3AM  .18

7AM  .18

11AM .176

3PM  .18

7PM  .17

11PM .18

 

They were all .18 and I have been micro tapering them down one at a time to .17. You can see I am in an odd place.

 

According to Ashton .5X=25L.

 

My doctor just wrote a script for Librium and agreed I could try a gradual cross over and see him in a month.

I get dizzy trying to figure out how to do this. I think I should leave the weird doses the way they are and sub the Librium into the .18 doses, right?

 

I found this chart comparing onset and peak and half life.

http://www.vhpharmsci.com/vhformulary/tools/benzodiazepines-comparison.htm

 

Ashton starts with subbing Valium at bedtime. But Librium has a slower onset and a later peak than Valium or Xanax. Since this was prescribed for insomnia, a slower onset at bedtime would not be the best place to start, right? Maybe start with the 3PM dose and just have an unpleasant afternoon?

 

My doctor wrote the script to dose 3 times/day, so I will be dropping doses. I find that process confusing, too, especially since I am in weird place in my micro taper.

 

My daughter is with me this week and I want to start while she is here in case this goes badly. She can keep track of my doses and help me adjust if I'm not sleeping and can't figure out how to do it.

 

Finally, does anyone know if it's true that Librium is water soluble? And could I have the directions for making a dilution with a 25mg tablet?

 

Thank you!!

 

The Librium in water thing is a discrepancy that Anne and I have recently discussed.  People in the past have apparently used plain water to dissolve it, and Anne has a source that says water will hold up to 2mg/ml.  But the Jouyban data disagrees and puts Librium only slightly better at dissolving in water than other benzos.  The safe bet is to treat it like the other benzos and use the alcohol/water method.  That way you are covered.

 

Since you are going from liquid to liquid you are in a very flexible position and could cross a few percent at a time if you wanted.  This should make it a smoother cross.  Or you can do it the standard way in bigger chunks.  Going from liquid to liquid is a great situation to be in when crossing.

 

Thanks SG. I will go with the alcohol/water.

 

So would that be one 25mg tablet dissolved in 2ml of 80 proof vodka plus water to make 100ml? (Could I get away with 50ml so I don't have such a large dose to carry around with me?)

And if I wanted to substitute half of my 3PM dose, that would be .09mg Xanax (diluted, of course) plus how much of the new liquid Librium?

 

Thanks!

 

Librium looks like this...water dissolves .11mg/ml.  And 80 proof will dissolve 2.89mg/ml.  That means to dissolve 25mg in 80 proof you would need 9ml and to keep it dissolved in water you would need 228ml water (minus the 9ml alcohol).  This is going by the Jouyban data.  Hmmm...the problem is you are dissolving A LOT of Librium so you need a lot of liquid.  The other benzos come in much smaller sizes so only need to dissolve a little.  I did not expect this.  I've never worked with Librium before.  It will work, just requires a lot of liquid.  I'd probably switch to 150 proof alcohol and use 3ml.  150 proof gets you up around 25mg/ml so no problem there and much less alcohol.  Then to make sure there is enough water I might go to 300ml or higher (I don't like operating near the margins).

 

Concentration-wise you are fine.  You could do 25mg L in 250ml total liquid.

 

Wow, I didn't know that either. And I know nothing about hard alcohol. What kind would be 150 proof?

 

Could you clarify, am I going for 25mg=250ml or 25mg=300ml?

 

Another thought, what about using propylene glycol?

 

Thanks!

[[an...]]

 

Hi Anne,

 

I'm interested, did you switch back to plain ol' water instead of alcohol? do you think the alcohol was causing you to have some extra symptoms?

 

I'm still waiting until my accpuncture treatments are finished before I start tapering again, and I'm not 100% sold on how I will do it. I'm trying to get as much info as possible.

 

Thanks so much,

Shan/wecan

 

Hi Shannon,

 

Yes, I did use alcohol for about a week. I had some intense symptoms for a couple of days. I had about 2 hours sleep on a Sunday evening, and then I experienced symptoms (high blood pressure spikes and shakiness) while we were at the store on Monday evening. It was awful.  I did go back to water after that happened.  I think I experienced symptoms because of lack of sleep.  I had worked that day, cleaned house when I got home, and then we went shopping. It was probably too much.  I also thought that because the alcohol dissolved the lorazepam, I might  have absorbed the drug much faster  meaning it would have worn off before I took another dose.  I do not think this was the case though. I was fine using the alcohol for several days before the attack.  Another thought was the possibility that the drug precipitated out of solution, but even if that happened, it shouldn't have caused a problem because I always shake up my mixture.

 

I tapered successfully using water in the past (in fact I was mainly symptom free during that taper), and it is working well for me now. I just have to make sure that I shake my mixture well, and quickly measure my dose.  I drink the dose, and then add some water to the container.  Swirl and drink the rinse water. I might try the alcohol again in a few months, but I see no need for me to dissolve the drug, because I have the water technique down.  It is easy for me to prepare my lorazepam/water mixture and I can't see the need to make yet another measurement.   

 

I am glad that you are looking into all of the options that are available.  The key is a slow taper.

 

Anne

[[...]]

Needing math and chemistry gurus!

 

I have decided to attempt a slow, careful crossover from Xanax to Librium so I don't have to dose so often. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a complicated micro taper and the math is way over my head. Here's where I'll be tomorrow:

 

3AM  .18

7AM  .18

11AM .176

3PM  .18

7PM  .17

11PM .18

 

They were all .18 and I have been micro tapering them down one at a time to .17. You can see I am in an odd place.

 

According to Ashton .5X=25L.

 

My doctor just wrote a script for Librium and agreed I could try a gradual cross over and see him in a month.

I get dizzy trying to figure out how to do this. I think I should leave the weird doses the way they are and sub the Librium into the .18 doses, right?

 

I found this chart comparing onset and peak and half life.

http://www.vhpharmsci.com/vhformulary/tools/benzodiazepines-comparison.htm

 

Ashton starts with subbing Valium at bedtime. But Librium has a slower onset and a later peak than Valium or Xanax. Since this was prescribed for insomnia, a slower onset at bedtime would not be the best place to start, right? Maybe start with the 3PM dose and just have an unpleasant afternoon?

 

My doctor wrote the script to dose 3 times/day, so I will be dropping doses. I find that process confusing, too, especially since I am in weird place in my micro taper.

 

My daughter is with me this week and I want to start while she is here in case this goes badly. She can keep track of my doses and help me adjust if I'm not sleeping and can't figure out how to do it.

 

Finally, does anyone know if it's true that Librium is water soluble? And could I have the directions for making a dilution with a 25mg tablet?

 

Thank you!!

 

The Librium in water thing is a discrepancy that Anne and I have recently discussed.  People in the past have apparently used plain water to dissolve it, and Anne has a source that says water will hold up to 2mg/ml.  But the Jouyban data disagrees and puts Librium only slightly better at dissolving in water than other benzos.  The safe bet is to treat it like the other benzos and use the alcohol/water method.  That way you are covered.

 

Since you are going from liquid to liquid you are in a very flexible position and could cross a few percent at a time if you wanted.  This should make it a smoother cross.  Or you can do it the standard way in bigger chunks.  Going from liquid to liquid is a great situation to be in when crossing.

 

Thanks SG. I will go with the alcohol/water.

 

So would that be one 25mg tablet dissolved in 2ml of 80 proof vodka plus water to make 100ml? (Could I get away with 50ml so I don't have such a large dose to carry around with me?)

And if I wanted to substitute half of my 3PM dose, that would be .09mg Xanax (diluted, of course) plus how much of the new liquid Librium?

 

Thanks!

 

Librium looks like this...water dissolves .11mg/ml.  And 80 proof will dissolve 2.89mg/ml.  That means to dissolve 25mg in 80 proof you would need 9ml and to keep it dissolved in water you would need 228ml water (minus the 9ml alcohol).  This is going by the Jouyban data.  Hmmm...the problem is you are dissolving A LOT of Librium so you need a lot of liquid.  The other benzos come in much smaller sizes so only need to dissolve a little.  I did not expect this.  I've never worked with Librium before.  It will work, just requires a lot of liquid.  I'd probably switch to 150 proof alcohol and use 3ml.  150 proof gets you up around 25mg/ml so no problem there and much less alcohol.  Then to make sure there is enough water I might go to 300ml or higher (I don't like operating near the margins).

 

Concentration-wise you are fine.  You could do 25mg L in 250ml total liquid.

 

Wow, I didn't know that either. And I know nothing about hard alcohol. What kind would be 150 proof?

 

Could you clarify, am I going for 25mg=250ml or 25mg=300ml?

 

I edited my last post just as you were posting to ask if L comes in 5mg pills.

 

There are various ones.  Everclear 151 is one.  There is also a 150 proof vodka out there.

 

If I were doing it I think I might go to 25mg=500ml.  You need almost 250ml just to cover 25mg with no margin for error.  I'd double it to 500ml.  It would be good if someone with Librium experience would chime in.

[[...]]

Wow, I didn't know that either. And I know nothing about hard alcohol. What kind would be 150 proof?

 

Could you clarify, am I going for 25mg=250ml or 25mg=300ml?

 

Another thought, what about using propylene glycol?

 

Thanks!

 

That's a good thought.  PG could be used to replace alcohol, but that would not be very useful.  But if you used it straight it might be possible.  You'd need at least 50ml to get the concentration down and that might be a lot to ingest every day, IDK.  And I don't have solubility data for L in PG.  It would need to be scoped.

[[Ul...]]

Well, pray for drugs! As a lot of you know, I've been feverishly trying to get scripts for my clonazepam so I can continue my MT. My newest primary doc won't write scripts for controlled substances, and I've tried everything known to man to find ANYONE in my insurance network who'd work with me. I went to see my D.O. today about my trashed thyroid (thanks, benzo) and she said she'd send a couple of referral forms to people she knows of in my network. They may not be taking new patients, but maybe they'll make an exception if I follow up and remind them what my doc did.

 

Fingers crossed!!!!

 

Geaux LSU.

 

Jeff

[[...]]

Here it says Librium comes in 5, 10, and 25mg capsules.  You'd be a lot better off with 5mg.  Or at least some 5mg.

 

http://www.rxlist.com/librium-drug.htm

[[an...]]

Wow, I didn't know that either. And I know nothing about hard alcohol. What kind would be 150 proof?

 

Could you clarify, am I going for 25mg=250ml or 25mg=300ml?

 

Another thought, what about using propylene glycol?

 

Thanks!

 

 

That's a good thought.  PG could be used to replace alcohol, but that would not be very useful.  But if you used it straight it might be possible.  You'd need at least 50ml to get the concentration down and that might be a lot to ingest every day, IDK.  And I don't have solubility data for L in PG.  It would need to be scoped.

 

SG,

 

I agree that might be too much PG.  Why not dissolve in 10 mL of alcohol and then Gardner could dilute to 100 or 200 mL?  I don't think that 10 mL of vodka would be too much. It is only 1/3 of an ounce. What do you think?

 

Gardner, will you be taking 25 mg each day?

[[...]]

Wow, I didn't know that either. And I know nothing about hard alcohol. What kind would be 150 proof?

 

Could you clarify, am I going for 25mg=250ml or 25mg=300ml?

 

Another thought, what about using propylene glycol?

 

Thanks!

 

 

That's a good thought.  PG could be used to replace alcohol, but that would not be very useful.  But if you used it straight it might be possible.  You'd need at least 50ml to get the concentration down and that might be a lot to ingest every day, IDK.  And I don't have solubility data for L in PG.  It would need to be scoped.

 

SG,

 

I agree that might be too much PG.  Why not dissolve in 10 mL of alcohol and then Gardner could dilute to 100 or 200 mL?  I don't think that 10 mL of vodka would be too much. It is only 1/3 of an ounce. What do you think?

 

Gardner, will you be taking 25 mg each day?

 

Really, I think if she can get 5mg capsules prescribed that would be best.  Liquify 5mg at a time and take the rest dry.  It will solve the problem.  She can then go to the standard few mls alcohol and 100ml water like everyone else has done.

[[an...]]

Wow, I didn't know that either. And I know nothing about hard alcohol. What kind would be 150 proof?

 

Could you clarify, am I going for 25mg=250ml or 25mg=300ml?

 

Another thought, what about using propylene glycol?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

That's a good thought.  PG could be used to replace alcohol, but that would not be very useful.  But if you used it straight it might be possible.  You'd need at least 50ml to get the concentration down and that might be a lot to ingest every day, IDK.  And I don't have solubility data for L in PG.  It would need to be scoped.

 

SG,

 

I agree that might be too much PG.  Why not dissolve in 10 mL of alcohol and then Gardner could dilute to 100 or 200 mL?  I don't think that 10 mL of vodka would be too much. It is only 1/3 of an ounce. What do you think?

 

Gardner, will you be taking 25 mg each day?

 

On second thought that may not work. I forgot that we are talking about 25 mg. I think there could be a possibility of the Librium coming out of solution with only 90 mL of water. 

 

Gardner, are these tablets or capsules?

[[an...]]

 

Really, I think if she can get 5mg capsules prescribed that would be best.  Liquify 5mg at a time and take the rest dry.  It will solve the problem.  She can then go to the standard few mls alcohol and 100ml water like everyone else has done.

 

Getting 5 mg capsules would be ideal. 

[[ga...]]

 

I edited my last post just as you were posting to ask if L comes in 5mg pills.

 

There are various ones.  Everclear 151 is one.  There is also a 150 proof vodka out there.

 

If I were doing it I think I might go to 25mg=500ml.  You need almost 250ml just to cover 25mg with no margin for error.  I'd double it to 500ml.  It would be good if someone with Librium experience would chime in.

 

Librium comes in 5mg, 10mg, 25mg, but my doctor wrote the script as 25mg up to 3x/day.

 

It takes a lot of L to sub for a very little X.

 

[[ga...]]

Well, pray for drugs! As a lot of you know, I've been feverishly trying to get scripts for my clonazepam so I can continue my MT. My newest primary doc won't write scripts for controlled substances, and I've tried everything known to man to find ANYONE in my insurance network who'd work with me. I went to see my D.O. today about my trashed thyroid (thanks, benzo) and she said she'd send a couple of referral forms to people she knows of in my network. They may not be taking new patients, but maybe they'll make an exception if I follow up and remind them what my doc did.

 

Fingers crossed!!!!

 

Geaux LSU.

 

Jeff

 

This looks like there's some hope here! Keep us posted!!

[[ga...]]

The pharmacy said they have Teva Librium which I believe is a capsule. The script hasn't come through yet.

I am going to sleep on this and try to figure it out tomorrow. I don't think my doctor will change the script.

Thanks for your help!

 

Oh, I just remembered he said he would write for smaller pills when I am down to smaller amounts of L per day.

 

[[an...]]

Well, pray for drugs! As a lot of you know, I've been feverishly trying to get scripts for my clonazepam so I can continue my MT. My newest primary doc won't write scripts for controlled substances, and I've tried everything known to man to find ANYONE in my insurance network who'd work with me. I went to see my D.O. today about my trashed thyroid (thanks, benzo) and she said she'd send a couple of referral forms to people she knows of in my network. They may not be taking new patients, but maybe they'll make an exception if I follow up and remind them what my doc did.

 

Fingers crossed!!!!

 

Geaux LSU.

 

Jeff

 

Jeff,

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed for you as well.  This will work out.

 

Anne

[[an...]]

The pharmacy said they have Teva Librium which I believe is a capsule. The script hasn't come through yet.

I am going to sleep on this and try to figure it out tomorrow. I don't think my doctor will change the script.

Thanks for your help!

 

Oh, I just remembered he said he would write for smaller pills when I am down to smaller amounts of L per day.

 

Gardner,

 

If your doctor will not change the prescription to the 5 mg capsules, don't worry, it will work out with the 25 mg capsules. As SG said you could put the 25 mg into 300 mL.  I assume once you cross over you will be taking three doses a day.  This would be only 100 mL per dose to start.  I have jars that will hold a little over 100 mL.  The lids seal well and there is no leakage.  I can carry three of them in my purse with no problem. They are a bit expensive though (about $11.00 each), but to me they are well worth the price because now I do not have liquid spilling out inside my purse. 

 

I think I am also going to get some sleep.

Have a good night.

Anne

[[We...]]

 

Hi Anne,

 

I'm interested, did you switch back to plain ol' water instead of alcohol? do you think the alcohol was causing you to have some extra symptoms?

 

I'm still waiting until my accpuncture treatments are finished before I start tapering again, and I'm not 100% sold on how I will do it. I'm trying to get as much info as possible.

 

Thanks so much,

Shan/wecan

 

Hi Shannon,

 

Yes, I did use alcohol for about a week. I had some intense symptoms for a couple of days. I had about 2 hours sleep on a Sunday evening, and then I experienced symptoms (high blood pressure spikes and shakiness) while we were at the store on Monday evening. It was awful.  I did go back to water after that happened.  I think I experienced symptoms because of lack of sleep.  I had worked that day, cleaned house when I got home, and then we went shopping. It was probably too much.  I also thought that because the alcohol dissolved the lorazepam, I might  have absorbed the drug much faster  meaning it would have worn off before I took another dose.  I do not think this was the case though. I was fine using the alcohol for several days before the attack.  Another thought was the possibility that the drug precipitated out of solution, but even if that happened, it shouldn't have caused a problem because I always shake up my mixture.

 

I tapered successfully using water in the past (in fact I was mainly symptom free during that taper), and it is working well for me now. I just have to make sure that I shake my mixture well, and quickly measure my dose.  I drink the dose, and then add some water to the container.  Swirl and drink the rinse water. I might try the alcohol again in a few months, but I see no need for me to dissolve the drug, because I have the water technique down.  It is easy for me to prepare my lorazepam/water mixture and I can't see the need to make yet another measurement.   

 

I am glad that you are looking into all of the options that are available.  The key is a slow taper.

 

Anne

 

Thanks, Anne, for the thorough reply. I'm glad the water is working for you. No need to use alcohol if you have something that is already working. I hope the rest of your taper is smooth and 'attack' free

 

Shan

[[do...]]

Well, pray for drugs! As a lot of you know, I've been feverishly trying to get scripts for my clonazepam so I can continue my MT. My newest primary doc won't write scripts for controlled substances, and I've tried everything known to man to find ANYONE in my insurance network who'd work with me. I went to see my D.O. today about my trashed thyroid (thanks, benzo) and she said she'd send a couple of referral forms to people she knows of in my network. They may not be taking new patients, but maybe they'll make an exception if I follow up and remind them what my doc did.

 

Fingers crossed!!!!

 

Geaux LSU.

 

Jeff

 

Hey Jeff,

 

Sending positive thoughts your way.

 

doodle dog

[[do...]]

Hi Guys, I put together this list of stuff I purchased on amazon to use with my diluting and titrating. It may be helpful to people who are starting out and trying to figure out where to get some of this stuff. It is not the final word on the subject by any means. It's just what I have used myself. I spent a lot of time hunting on amazon in my early days of tapering, so perhaps someone will be spared some time and energy by having these links. Feel free to copy and paste it but, if you do, please include the notes, not just the links.

 

 

My Supplies for Dilution and Titration

 

 

1ml syringes marked at .02 intervals that come with caps. Easy to see the exact dose. Can be carried tip down in purse or pocket carefully if the plunger is not pulled back very far. Note: syringes will lose their markings and get harder to use as they get older. This is typical. Sometimes people think syringes have needles and look concerned when they see me with it. I say, "Don't worry, it has no needle; it's an oral syringe, like you would use to give medicine to a baby or a cat." Then they understand and look relieved.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Y6JK2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

30ml (very small) amber bottles with rubber seals so they don't leak. Good for carrying a small dose that is too big to fit in a syringe. Also less scary-looking than a syringe.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4ABY4E?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

10ml syringes that I find hard to use for measuring meds because of the design of the plunger. I use them for storing and carrying a small amount of water to use for rinsing the tiny bottles after dosing (and drinking the rinse water to be sure nothing is left behind). These also come with caps.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OABXLOM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

100ml amber glass jar for storing dilution. Holds 100ml but very close to top of jar. Not good for shaking. It will leak. Nice wide top makes it easy to draw out a dose with your syringe. Nice wide top allows bits of dust to fall in.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QNILTW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

50ml graduated cylinder. It's glass. I've knocked it over a few times but it hasn't broken. Some people buy 2 just in case. It seems to be very close to accurate. I use it to measure the water part of the dilution.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006UKIAJW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

 

100ml graduated cylinder by the same company. I haven't actually used this size, myself, but many people do.

http://www.amazon.com/213I12-Karter-Scientific-Graduated-Cylinder/dp/B006UKIASI/ref=pd_sim_328_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=09M84H793FJXQYDY00F7

 

 

Note: Sometimes a product on amazon gets changed by the manufacturer, so it's a good idea to read over the description and make sure it is still the same product. If amazon sends you a product that does not match their description, they will accept the return and pay for the shipping, too. I always make sure the product is sold by amazon or fulfilled by amazon rather than an outside vendor who is advertising on amazon. Because of this, I've never had trouble with an amazon return.

 

Hey Gardener,

 

Wonderful info.  Thanks so much.

 

doodle dog