I am truly in Hell...please help

[[Mo...]]

Ok intend. TY. I had a couple hours of feeling normal yesterday with my afternoon dose of K and half a Benadryl. I would give my right arm to feel normal again. In hell all day today despite anything. I only took one. 25 X about four or five days ago. Didn't reinstate it. I added 5mg. Valium

to. 25 K for bedtime to equal the equivalent of a .5 K. I am not sure if putting V in my mix is a good idea invade it will give me paradoxical effects. I may have to stop and just go straight from K. I woke up more groggy from V today. Slept more. But I know its sedation wears off. I always took K with either X or with Serax for years. I just wish I could keep going on the 1.5 K or equivalent with the V involved and just keep making cuts without issues. I never had issues tapering before now. But that was several years ago when benzos were still effective for me and when I only took. 25 at a time because. 5 was too strong of K. Now I am suddenly in this world of Hell. I wish I had never been told about the three women on BB who took their lives. I feel that way too. No, I won't go back to the ER or call 911. So...I started my first cut with K today. I pray to feel normal again ASAP

[[Mo...]]

Also I made a cut of an unweighed, unknown amount. I had my husband shave some K's for me months ago up to the letter T in Teva

Was going to do it that way. When the scale arrives I will weigh it to see what the fut was that I made. I don't understand the need to weigh ten pills. My scale will go to. 001 accuracy so I only have to weigh one pill. Thanks for the math. All I want is to take away an eighth of a pill every week or two.

[[Kg...]]

Mozart: Given your current s/x IMHO I don't think it is such a great idea to cut an unknown amt of klonopin.  You should know what you are taking whether you just cut your pills using a pill cutter or by weighing your pills. You need to weigh 10 pills because your individual pills weigh different amts.  For example one of your Teva pills may weigh .169 another .175 and another .170 etc., it is important to get an average if you are going to taper using the gram scale.  You certainly can taper any way you wish I just found that being on a consistent dose when I was doing cut and hold helped me vs. just eyeballing the dose.  Only you can decide how you want to cut and what benzos to take to help you.  If you want to keep the Valium then do so - and just decide what you wish to do and how you wish to cut.  I do hope whatever you decide you feel better. 

[[Mo...]]

Kgirl10...PLEASE HELP. I just told Intend....I keep screaming literally from going crazy with anxiety and going out of my skin. Scale came today. Please tell me how you tapered. Please. I take. 5 K every 8 hours three times a day. Actually as of two nights ago I take a 5 Mg. Valium

With a .25 K to equal a full. 5 K as per stage 2 in Ashton c/o. I don't like V alone only mixed with K. I may be someone who has to be on these for life. I can't tolerate this Hell. Tell me exactly what you did please give me a sane plan. Please. I don't want to end up taking my life. I DON'T!!! I DON'T WANT THIS TO WIN. I keep trying things. I take 3 halves of Benadryl every several hours. They usually help. I take two low dose Propanolol. They don't do much. I take CALM powder, L-Theonine, L-Glutamine and GABA supplements. Nothing is working. I am bedridden. I get terror just from sound or talking or being talked to. I am going crazy. I can't upfose because K became ineffective after 38 years. I c/t Xanax on January 24. Prov said the K will cover it. I was used to taking both. I need your help...a sane taper. Not years please. Just several months...PLEASE.

[[El...]]

Also I made a cut of an unweighed, unknown amount. I had my husband shave some K's for me months ago up to the letter T in Teva

Was going to do it that way. When the scale arrives I will weigh it to see what the fut was that I made. I don't understand the need to weigh ten pills. My scale will go to. 001 accuracy so I only have to weigh one pill. Thanks for the math. All I want is to take away an eighth of a pill every week or two.

 

what brand and name is your scale mozart-

[[Mo...]]

It is made by Gemini from Amazon. Nice little scale

[[Kg...]]

Mozart the first thing I would do is call your doctor and them him/her that the klonopin is not covering your cold turkey of the Xanax.  I see that you did a cold turkey of Xanax which is not a good idea since if I am reading you correctly you were also taking klonopin at the time.  You want me to give you a taper that will work for you and not be slow but quick and will not give you s/x.  If I knew of one like that believe me I would be doing it right now. 

 

The first thing I think you must do for right now is to get stable.  You are in no position to cut anything given your current state.  You need to find a dose of whatever benzo you have that at least makes the s/x bearable for you.  I do not mean you won't have symptoms just that you won't feel as bad as you do.  What combination will do this for you I do not know.  Did the Xanax work for you and take your anxiety away- if yes you may want to go back to this benzo.  There are no easy answers to getting off of benzos especially for long term users - like you and I.

 

Once you feel somewhat stable you have your choice of how to taper. Everyone's body is different but in getting off benzos keep in mind that the turtle wins the race.  If you can go faster - great, if you can't don't worry about it.  This is a one day at a time deal.

 

I won't repeat what I have in my progress log- you can see what I did there - but I will say that my total cross over to valium made me a complete wreck, and then due to a mistake in dosing I ended up  - up dosing and then going back to klonopin.  I realized that valium was making me sick if I took more than a certain amt- but that was particular to me, most do fine on it.  I ended up taking my klonopin dose and adding in 2 mg of Valium as I told you. Then I used a cut a hold - first by eyeballing it and then using the scale.  Because I believe I was on the higher dose of Klonopin for not very long this was hard but it was bearable - that is I could do it but did not feel well.  As I started to get under the 1.0 of klonopin it became harder and harder until on my last cut it was unbearable and I went to a slow daily taper using the scale.  Will this take longer - yes, could I keep doing the cut and hold - for me no.  Others can.

 

So my advice is:

1. speak to your doctor about the cold turkey of xanax and/or get a doctor/ nurse practitioner who will help you do this taper and leave you in control of your cuts and how you wish to do it

2.  get some CBT therapy so you have skills to deal with the s/x

3.  start doing meditation now

4.  try doing some exercise even if it is walking one block and back or some light yoga

5.  get stable on a dose - or as stable as you can before you start any cuts at all - listen to your body. You may have to up on your dose to come down - there is no shame in this.  Please don't rush this. 

6.  once you get stable decide on what method you wish to use to taper - if it doesn't work you can always change it.  If it were me I would do either a liquid taper (you use liquid only on the dose you are cutting from) or a daily taper using the scale so that your body slowly adjusts to the cuts.  You can speed up later if it works for you.

7. If you feel like you are suicidal you need to be in a hospital and get help. 

 

I know you are desperate - we have all felt like this believe me and the day to day anxiety is horrible and to someone who hasn't had it indescribable.  You will be able to do this but what you need is a lot of patience, and  understand that it takes time.  Please read Parker what is happening to your body/brain so you will understand that your body/brain has to remake chemicals that it hasn't made for years.  This takes time.  Come here for support but please go on the Klonopin board so you can get help from lots of other people. 

 

I do think you need to try and get out of bed even if it is just moving to the couch.  Again if the klonopin is not working for you and the xanax plus klonopin made you feel better than this is what I would take to get stable - before you start cutting anything.  Right now I do not think cutting anything is a good idea since you are bedridden.

 

I hope this helped you.

[[el...]]

Hi Mozart

 

I agree completely with what Kgirl has said.  Her advice is coming from a place where she has experience.  You should get to a stable place with your meds before you can proceed.  Follow Kgirl's advice - it is your best option right now.

 

Ellen

[[In...]]

Mozart,

 

I'm going to reiterate what Kgirl and Ellen have said here also.

 

I see your main focus right now is to get some stability. I mentioned yesterday that perhaps your klonopin is ineffective because you've always taken two benzos, and your brain is used to this.

 

If it's xanax and klonopin, klonopin and valium, or whatever the combination is, try to get that figured out, and then take it.

 

As Kgirl says, you may need to speak with your doctor about getting the xanax or valium (although you may already have done so).

 

But please do not taper anything until you feel some stability.

 

And try to understand that tapering takes as long as as it takes. This means that only you know how well you can tolerate the withdrawl sx, and thus only you know when to make your next cut.

[[Mo...]]

Kgirl, I want to try to avoid xanax even though it would make me better with tge k. I don't want to go backwards.  I began cutting an 8th of a k yesterday. I did add in for my night dose a 5 mg. Valium (I don't like valium either but when i take it with the k it works better) along with .25 k to equal a .5 k for my night dose. I wish I could take the x because when I am screaming my lungs out, it would quell that. I gave in and took one last week. But I don't want to updose. I was doing all liquid titration just fine until someone told me pulling out 1 ml a day was too fast. I panicked and stopped and went back to dry pills, then bought the scale. I should have kept up the liquid altjough it was a pain...and how could I do that if I had to travel? So...even while in Hell I am making cuts and holding for a week, two weeks, however long with each cut. I will come off the valium pill last. I can't wait to get stable. That won't hapoen unlesx I bring back xanax or stay on benzos for life. How on earth would I taper from two kinds of benzos anyway?

[[In...]]

Mozart,

 

I'll give you my opinion once again. I don't think you need to go backwards by using xanax.

 

It sounds like you are already using valium in addition to the klonopin. So maybe that is the combination that will work for you right now.

 

And I also forgot to mention that when your doctor took you off the xanax abruptly, it was a tremendous shock to your CNS, and ever since you've been in considerable distress. And we've already discussed how taking someone of of a benzo (cold turkey) is a very bad idea. And the idea that the klonopin you were taking would "cover" for that missing Xanax is absolutely ludicrous in my opinion. I think you mentioned that the amount of Xanax was 2-4 times per day depending on how you felt. Well, that is enough of xanax to have a great impact on you when it's dropped abruptly.

 

So I think it's also worth mentioning that as Challis said back in this thread that perhaps your klonopin is not effective anymore is because you're in withdrawl from your Xanax. Perhaps you can try reinstating an amount of klonopin to see how that effects you. That way you won't go backward to taking Xanax, but you'll be on klonopin and valium. The reason that the Xanax helps you when your pain becomes intolerable is because it gets into the bloodstream extremely fast and gives you the relief your seeking. But klonopin can also do that. Well, another idea here to try to get you stable.

 

I don't know that the continued liquid tapering would have worked as the same circumstances were "in play" as are now. Getting that stability is the first job for you I think. As far as traveling with liquid titration, people do it all the time by preparing ahead. I did it when I went to an all day training. I just prepared my dose ahead, put it into one of those fabric lunch boxes with a frozen gel pack and some rinse water. And then I took the dose in the lavatory when it was time. Arrangements can always be made.

 

I think you will get stable. It may not require Xanax, but perhaps more klonopin. Give it some thought. No one has to stay on these benzos for life unless they have some medical condition that I'm not qualified to even know at this point.

 

And plenty of people are tapering from 2 benzos. They just taper one  first and then taper the other. The other option is to combine the 2 benzos into one using the equivalences. But often people find this does work as well for them. So they just do one first and then the other. Please visit the KK thread as there are several people doing exactly that.

[[Kg...]]

Mozart:  I think Intend has said it all.  I really don't have anything to add except that everyone has told you not to cut until you feel better and your continuing to cut is obviously  - from what you are telling us from your posts -  not working for you.  I don't know why you think it will.  If you want to get off very fast that is up to you and go ahead and keep cutting.  As I  told you and Intend told you and everyone else told you none of us would be cutting right now until we got stable.  On what drugs you will be stable I have no idea.  If you don't want to take Xanax so be it but then you need to wait for the valium to work and that takes time and for your body to adjust to this.  If the liquid taper worked for you then when you are ready to cut do that - and it is easy to travel with, you just have to prepare it ahead of time for the doses you will take while traveling.  Most hotels make accommodations for medicines that need to be refrigerated so just ask ahead if you need to.  I truly hope you will slow down, read  over this tread again and realize that sometimes the best way to get somewhere is the slow way - think of the turtle and the hare - the turtle won the race. 

[[Mo...]]

Wanting to and playing with c/o for a very long time. In tolerance Hell. Cutting 1/8 Klonopin now using a 5 mg. Valium at bedtime with a .25 K. Been on benzos 39 years. Wanting off but have tried V c/o a few times before. V made me agitated (like today) especially when it got to JUST 10 mg. V at bedtime without mixing it with the K at stage 2 so I always end up stopping the V and putting back the other half of the K. My dose is 1.5 K per day equivalent 3x day every 8 hours. Using halves of Benadryl and two 10 mg. Propranolol inbetween for help through w/d Hell. Benzos became ineffective at year 38, when I left the psych ward January 1 this year. They were effective all those years. I c/t Xanax a few weeks after January 1 after years of using K with it (or with Serax). I c/t oxycodone last August 14 2014 after 3 years of Rx use. In hell, going crazy, bedridden, never felt like this in my life and my life's been Hell for many years since age 11. PTSD, tragedy, depression, terror, unreality, detached, depersonalization, etc. To c/o or not....don't know. Hard coming off and stuck. No chance of stabilizing...won't happen. Have to cut or c/o while in big sx

So far planning to keep cutting while keeping the 5 mg. V until the end. K has turned on me and V always has. Wanted sedation, now it's waning.  No one's been on these pills as long as I have. So lonely and alone. Feel no chance of life getting better at all....ever.

 

[Guest [Mi...]]

Wanting to and playing with c/o for a very long time. In tolerance Hell. Cutting 1/8 Klonopin now using a 5 mg. Valium at bedtime with a .25 K. Been on benzos 39 years. Wanting off but have tried V c/o a few times before. V made me agitated (like today) especially when it got to JUST 10 mg. V at bedtime without mixing it with the K at stage 2 so I always end up stopping the V and putting back the other half of the K. My dose is 1.5 K per day equivalent 3x day every 8 hours. Using halves of Benadryl and two 10 mg. Propranolol inbetween for help through w/d Hell. Benzos became ineffective at year 38, when I left the psych ward January 1 this year. They were effective all those years. I c/t Xanax a few weeks after January 1 after years of using K with it (or with Serax). I c/t oxycodone last August 14 2014 after 3 years of Rx use. In hell, going crazy, bedridden, never felt like this in my life and my life's been Hell for many years since age 11. PTSD, tragedy, depression, terror, unreality, detached, depersonalization, etc. To c/o or not....don't know. Hard coming off and stuck. No chance of stabilizing...won't happen. Have to cut or c/o while in big sx

So far planning to keep cutting while keeping the 5 mg. V until the end. K has turned on me and V always has. Wanted sedation, now it's waning.  No one's been on these pills as long as I have. So lonely and alone. Feel no chance of life getting better at all....ever.

 

Mozart, I'm sorry you're struggling so much. I know this is hard.

 

We do have a few members with 40 years of benzo use and they've come off. But it's not easy. You're in good company here.

 

I was on them for 30 years starting from a young age, and I know you're struggling. But the fact that you keep tapering is inspiring.

 

You're going to get better. 

 

 

[[Mo...]]

Mindseeker

Thank you. I don't see getting better at all. I see no future and no life. Life is now a waiting room. Just don't know when or how yet. Very very hopeless.

[Guest [Mi...]]

Mindseeker

Thank you. I don't see getting better at all. I see no future and no life. Life is now a waiting room. Just don't know when or how yet. Very very hopeless.

 

Yes, I can relate to feeling like "life is now a waiting room". And unfortunately, it's a long wait.

 

But definitely worth it.

 

A lot of people don't see themselves getting better during their taper. But once you have a window, you'll see that you will.

[[Ch...]]

You can do this, I believe what you're feeling is the Xanax withdrawal still.  You can hold or move forward in your taper and get through this, it's not going to be easy but it can be done.  There's no rush to get through it, though.  I would reread Intend's advice to you…it's thorough and in my opinion, the way to go.

[[Mo...]]

Challis99

Nice to hear from you. I don't believe it is from Xanax w/d. I was still taking Xanax when I left the psych ward Dec 31st and snapped. Didn't stop Xanax until January 22nd. I see no hope at all.

[[El...]]

[[Kg...]]

Mozart sometimes your attitude impacts how you feel - I know you feel awful.  We have all been there but please don't give up hope try to be positive and have hope - we have all struggled here, had awful days, weeks, months but you just go on one day, one minute at a time and you know what -  you can do this and you will feel better.  It is your mind that you need to change - listen to some positive you tubes - I listened to Bliss's tapes and she tells it like it is.  Hopefully I can give you the links here.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g1MK9OhLkg,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuTKW5b18N8&list=PLJl_5O_41zZPyr0t9wFq4MjTlsL56XEk8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKqEzX1hr4k&list=PLJl_5O_41zZPyr0t9wFq4MjTlsL56XEk8&index=6

 

If the links don't work just google you tube Bliss Johns.  Please try these it helps me to feel that I am not alone and the meditation tape is a good easy start to learning how to breathe.