Insomniac support group

[[me...]]

Hi Rick, welcome to the insomniac group! Sorry you have to be here...

 

So to clarify--you are currently tapering Valium and are down to 2 mg. at this point? How much longer do you expect to taper? Are you taking your dose at one time or split and when do you take the dosage? You might trying moving that time around and see if that helps. Are you taking any other meds at all? How is your sleep hygiene otherwise?

 

I have to say that there was a point at which 4-5 hours was totally bearable for me, as it was an improvement from where I had been. Do you think there is any way you can function on the amount of sleep you are getting?

[[mu...]]

Hey rick you definitely are not alone.  You have made some real progress and have cut a large amount to where you are now so it comes as no surprise that you are having sleep issues along with some other withdrawal side effects.

 

I had a lot of what you are describing and all I can say is time heals,  it is tough but really stay the course time will heal your brain and things will slowly improve.  I had many days of dizzy spells and blurred vision.

 

I know it if tuff just do your best 

[[Lo...]]

Hey guys!

Let me joint the insomniacs group, because recently I have been struggling more and more with my weird sleeping pattern. I often I myself a question - maybe I am so screwed up after takink 2 mg of lorazepam for about 6 years before bedtime, so right now when I am on 10 mg valium it does not make me sleepy at all. The problem is either I can't fall asleep until 2 3 AM or waking up after 4 5 hours of sleep. The next morning and the whole day I am not functional at all. I do not have any panic/ anxiety attacks or even depressive mood. I haven't left my apartment for 3 days for my usual 40 - 50 minute walking. I am too tired and dizzy to do that. Last night I took a half of 50 mg Trazodone pill, hoping to get some better sleep. No way, I woke up after less than 5 hours of sleep even more fatigued and dizzy than the day before.

Have I answered my own question : Well, I am so screwed up as a result of 2 mg of lorazepam...

When I had taken this pill I slept fine for 8 hours. Any suggestions what to do or say to my doctor when I go to see her next month?

 

Rick

Hi Rick, This insomnia sucks! In reading your post, I'm struck by the fact that the valium is a very different drug from the Lorazepam.

 

"Peak concentrations in plasma occur approximately 2 hours following administration. The peak plasma level of lorazepam from a 2 mg dose is approximately 20 ng/mL. The mean half-life of unconjugated lorazepam in human plasma is about 12 hours and for its major metabolite, lorazepam glucuronide, about 18 hours."

 

Contrast this to valium that doctors attempt to have a much more constant amount in the body. It has a long half-life.

 

With Lorazepam one would get a jolt of benzo at bedtime and higher amounts throughout the night with gradual fading of effects during the day. In this way Lorazepam is more like Zopiclone although Zop has a half-life of 6 hours.

 

How was your sleep when you first did the crossover? If OK then I suspect that you have tapered too quickly.

 

Your story confirms my decision to do a direct taper from Zopiclone.

[[Ri...]]

Hello guys!

First of all, let me thank you for addressing my sleeping problems.

Well, I guess, some of you may misunderstand what I meant. So let me say again, I did crossover from lorazepam to valium at the end of February.

I take Valium TWICE a day. My initial dose was 5 mg pill in the afternoon and 10 mg (the blue one) before bedtime.

 

Once again, so far I have tapered my afternoon dose down to 2 mg, but my bedtime has been 10 mg since February. So you know, I did NOT taper off my bedtime dose at all. I suspect that I should have started at 20 mg before bedtime, stabilized my weird sleeping pattern and then started tapering off.

 

The doctor I was referred to from ER put me initially on 10 mg pill. My lousy sleeping issues have not improved at all. So this doctor wants me to take Trazodone to solve my sleeping problems.

 

I believe I am too sensitive for this new drug, I feel a kind of tired and having "hangover" next morning. I take only a half of the 50 mg pill. So far no significant difference in my sleeping pattern...

I feel worse, not even being able to do my routine 40 - 50 minutes walks with my pedometer.

I do hope you will understand what I mean.

One more time no problems with tapering off my afternoon dose (2 mg at the moment) and staying on the same 10 mg pill before bedtime.

 

Rick

[[me...]]

Rick--lots of people do not do well with trazadone. I hated it, made me feel like a zombie. If it's going to work, it would work for you pretty much right away, so I would drop it.

 

I'm concerned that you aren't getting to sleep for so long--have you tried moving the dose time (for Valium) up to earlier in the evening?

 

Another thing to think about---if the taper from Valium becomes too difficult, would it be possible to cross back over to lorazepam and continue the taper with that? I'm assuming you never had any issues sleeping with that drug. A valium taper is not for everyone, many find it uncomfortable for one reason or another.

[[me...]]

Oh and another thing--I am DRUG FREE as of two days ago! 

 

My sleep was not doing well over the last 3 weeks or so. Most nights about 4 to 4.5 hours, and I was dragging myself through the day (funny how earlier in taperingl that wouldn't seem so bad). I was waking up at 3 AM and never getting back to sleep. I got really fed up and starting thinking--jumping now can't make my insomnia any worse! and possibly I might actually do better. But I thought it highly unlikely that the minuscule dose I was taking was doing much of anything. So what the heck...

 

But I was wrong! I slept 8.5 hours the first night, and 7.5 hours last night . Both nights were pretty much straight through and I was sleepy all night (plus still drowsy in the morning!). Tonight I'm feeling sleepy and read for bed already (8:30 PM). My sleep is light and "dreamy" but still restful. I've woken up in the morning with the all over sweaty feeling, but not hot, just like I've had before when I missed a dose. This still feels very much like withdrawal, so obviously even the tiny dose I was taking was still having quite an effect.

 

Hopefully no issues will come up over the next few days that will make me want to reinstate. I am really ready to be drug free after 35 years. 

 

 

[[al...]]

All right Meowie! Congratulations for finally being drug free! Enjoy your new found freedom.

[[wa...]]

Yes - Good work, Meowie.  You did it.  WBB

[[mu...]]

Congrats meowie!!! 

 

Rick.  Sleep issues are so tough.  Valium isn't a quick acting strong benzo compared to others.  It isn't the best for inducing sleep that's for sure.  I myself have been doing straight cutting off my original prescribed meds as I didn't want to get into cross over etc.

 

Something that does help for some people is remeron and seroquel which seems to help me stay asleep and it's not a benzo.  Not saying I want to take it forever but its been pretty darn effective and no weird side effects.  Took a few days yup a week to get use to it.  Was a lil groggy first thing in the am but now I wake up and feel good.  I'm working on getting med free but you have to do what feels best for you.  All of us are different and all of us have to choose which path makes most sense for us.  Some do the rapid taper,  some cold turkey and others like myself go slow and steady.

 

Good luck bud 

[[Li...]]

I am sorry if I did not get back to everyone regarding posts they made about me.  I think I answered a lot of things in other threads though.  I really wanted to congratulate meowie on her victory.  Keep strong, eat healthy, don't drink any alcohol and you will continue to heal.  You win.

[[Lo...]]

Oh and another thing--I am DRUG FREE as of two days ago! 

 

My sleep was not doing well over the last 3 weeks or so. Most nights about 4 to 4.5 hours, and I was dragging myself through the day (funny how earlier in taperingl that wouldn't seem so bad). I was waking up at 3 AM and never getting back to sleep. I got really fed up and starting thinking--jumping now can't make my insomnia any worse! and possibly I might actually do better. But I thought it highly unlikely that the minuscule dose I was taking was doing much of anything. So what the heck...

 

But I was wrong! I slept 8.5 hours the first night, and 7.5 hours last night . Both nights were pretty much straight through and I was sleepy all night (plus still drowsy in the morning!). ...

Hopefully no issues will come up over the next few days that will make me want to reinstate. I am really ready to be drug free after 35 years. 

Way to go, Meowie!!! Congrats!!! I'm just curious...It is not clear to me from your signature info what drug you were tapering at the end. Not Amitryptilene I'm assuming.

[[Ri...]]

Rick--lots of people do not do well with trazadone. I hated it, made me feel like a zombie. If it's going to work, it would work for you pretty much right away, so I would drop it.

 

I'm concerned that you aren't getting to sleep for so long--have you tried moving the dose time (for Valium) up to earlier in the evening?

 

Another thing to think about---if the taper from Valium becomes too difficult, would it be possible to cross back over to lorazepam and continue the taper with that? I'm assuming you never had any issues sleeping with that drug. A valium taper is not for everyone, many find it uncomfortable for one reason or another.

 

Hi meowie!

Thanks so much for your response. Last night I took a half of 50 mg Trazodone and 10 mg Valium, was unable to fall asleep for some time and woke up too early in the morning.

Not functional at all. Would you suggest stopping taking Trazadone or take the whole 50 mg pill?

Also, I am think about taking V earlier in the evening as you had suggested.

 

My next appointment with that doctor who has been prescribing me the meds is on July 6th. I have no access to any doctor.

I go to sleep at midnight, so what time would you recommend taking my 10 mg Valium?

 

Yes. I did not have any sleeping problems while on 2 mg lorazepam for about 5 years. The lorazepam stopped working last year in June when I had hit so called tolerance to the drug.

I am in Toronto, Ontario, no way to find any other doctor even if I wanted to crossover back to lorazepam. In the public healthcare system you have no choice, I wish I was in the U.S. I could find a doctor by myself, but this is off topic here...

 

Cheers,

 

Rick

 

[[me...]]

Thanks everyone! So glad you all here understand--I would go around telling everyone in the real world if I could! 

 

Yes, I tapered off the amitryptiline. A big deal for me, as I was on tricyclics continuously for 35 years. I didn't do so well last night (5.5 hours), because they were doing bombing practice at the base (ugh!!). Tonight should be better. I'm having weird hormonal-type symptoms such as hot flashes, feeling a bit light-headed, and tired, but nothing unbearable, and my stomach is solid as a rock at this point. But the interesting is that my head feels somehow more clear and sharp, and I've remembered things over the last two days that I had completely forgot about (work related that I shouldn't forget!).

 

Hi meowie!

Thanks so much for your response. Last night I took a half of 50 mg Trazodone and 10 mg Valium, was unable to fall asleep for some time and woke up too early in the morning.

Not functional at all. Would you suggest stopping taking Trazadone or take the whole 50 mg pill?

Also, I am think about taking V earlier in the evening as you had suggested.

Rick--you've only been on the trazadone a few days, right? I would drop it completely tonight, it obviously doesn't agree with you.

 

If you are taking the Valium at bedtime, but not getting to sleep until 3 AM, try moving your dosing time back 3-4 hours. I'd also take a good look at what you are doing in the evening and make sure it is not energizing. Get off the computer at least 2 hours before bedtime. No video gaming or other high dopamine activities in the evening, better yet, none at all. No alcohol or caffeine, even if you don't think it is affecting you (it is). No fun at all until you get some sleep!

 

Why the ER visit?

[[Lo...]]

Thanks everyone! So glad you all here understand--I would go around telling everyone in the real world if I could! 

 

Yes, I tapered off the amitryptiline. A big deal for me, as I was on tricyclics continuously for 35 years. I didn't do so well last night (5.5 hours), because they were doing bombing practice at the base (ugh!!). Tonight should be better. I'm having weird hormonal-type symptoms such as hot flashes, feeling a bit light-headed, and tired, but nothing unbearable, and my stomach is solid as a rock at this point. But the interesting is that my head feels somehow more clear and sharp, and I've remembered things over the last two days that I had completely forgot about (work related that I shouldn't forget!).

Meowie: I had no idea that tapering from Amitryptilene would be such a big deal. it also is widely prescribed. My sister is taking both low dose Ami and 1/2 Zop at night for sleep. However now is not the time to withdraw from either as her husband is very ill.

Congrats on getting off the drugs!  LL

[[Lo...]]

Sleep Hacking: I have a lot of respect for a few people on the internet who hack health. Here is a link to one of them with lots of things for us to try out. Some cost and many don't. I'm going to work on some of them including the HeartMath HRV trainer. I have done this before and think it does help. Many other links.

 

https://www.bulletproofexec.com/how-to-hack-your-sleep-the-art-and-science-of-sleeping/

 

Some of the supps Dave Asprey recommends are not for us while in withdrawal. LL

 

[[Ri...]]

If you are taking the Valium at bedtime, but not getting to sleep until 3 AM, try moving your dosing time back 3-4 hours. I'd also take a good look at what you are doing in the evening and make sure it is not energizing. Get off the computer at least 2 hours before bedtime. No video gaming or other high dopamine activities in the evening, better yet, none at all. No alcohol or caffeine, even if you don't think it is affecting you (it is). No fun at all until you get some sleep!

 

Why the ER visit?

 

Yes. I have been on Trazodone for only 4 days. I can definitively drop this one since it has no positive effect on me. Last night, again, unable to fall asleep until maybe I don't know 1:30 AM and waking up too early... I have been felling crappy, clumsy all day long.

 

Also, I do not drink coffee or anything which contains caffeine, no alcohol at all.

I don't play any video games and I use only my Kindle Fire Pro to surf the Internet.

I have to wait until July 6th to see a doctor who's been giving me V scripts.

 

Thanks meowie for your suggestions anyway .

 

Rick

[[me...]]

I HATE THE FOURTH OF JULY!!!

 

Last night was a disaster. A new neighbor had a party and had fireworks going off intermittently until the wee hours of the morning. Not the ordinary mix, this was all 100% the loudest ones that you can buy (m-60s?) And a bomb (1/4 stick?) thrown in around midnight for good measure. I was so tired last night I could hardly keep my eyes open, but even earplugs plus headphones wasn't cutting it with those loud ones. After a while my nervous system was completely shot, and once it quieted down I still was unable to get to sleep.

 

In absolute frustration I took a Valium. That mellowed me out a lot, but I got heart palpitations and still couldn't sleep at all. Then I took an Ambien at 3:30 AM. Killed my streak of no drugs since my cold turkey in March. Despite both drugs I only slept from 4 to 7 AM, and woke up with the usual Ambien jolt. I'm sure I would have had better sleep with nothing. Now I'm going to be dealing with Ambien rebound. My sleep had been at a pretty good, even state and now I've ruined it. 

 

I'm sick of this--dog is tired and scared, chickens are nervous, one of them usually gets so wigged out I have to put "no pick" on her for a month afterwards. Can't even bear to think of how it is for the wildlife. My head feels like it is stuffed with cotton and I'm supposed to go out to a party and act upbeat. Not even really sure what I am going to do tonight as it probably will be worse.

 

Thanks for putting up with my rant...

[[al...]]

Meowie,

Won't you perhaps consider getting rid of your pill stash? Keeping them just undermines your resolve. We all have to learn new coping skills anyway. There really is no point in keeping them if your plan is to stay off of them. There have been countless times I wished that I did not throw out my sizable pill collection. If I hadn't, I can't say that I would not have given in to them and perhaps ended up back where I started.

[[Lo...]]

Very good point, Aloha. I admit that I am thinking about whether or not I would give up mine once I am off Zopiclone.

You are right that we have to adapt. I have missed a whole night of sleep on various occasions when traveling to Europe overnight for example. I felt bad but I recovered. I think if we don't accept that we may not sleep at all then we are charged up trying to sleep. Probably best to get up and do something for awhile.

Its tough though. LL

[[al...]]

Very good point, Aloha. I admit that I am thinking about whether or not I would give up mine once I am off Zopiclone.

You are right that we have to adapt. I have missed a whole night of sleep on various occasions when traveling to Europe overnight for example. I felt bad but I recovered. I think if we don't accept that we may not sleep at all then we are charged up trying to sleep. Probably best to get up and do something for awhile.

Its tough though. LL

 

Loveslife,

One night of good sleep is just not worth the possible consequences of taking benzos or Z-drugs after having gone through a withdrawal.

[[ca...]]

Hi

I have recently started my tapper of Zoplicone. I Find that when i eat white bread before bedtime it really helps me sleep but I dont want to get into the habbit of eating bread every night before I go to sleep. I know banans and avocados are supposed to be good for sleep as well.  Any other foods that proved helpful for you?

Thanks

Carem

[[Co...]]

Didn't sleep again. Feel awful

[[Lo...]]

Hi Corsair12, I'm so sorry to hear that you didn't sleep again. Very frustrating and of course you feel awful.

 

You sure have been on a mess of drugs over the past few years. I wonder who has been prescribing these to you? I'm surprised that you came off Trazodone before some others as that is often used to help with sleep and the wd from Benzos.

 

I do see that you have been off Benzos for some time. However, you appear to have protracted withdrawal. I wonder how wise it was to start another taper while still tapering from the last one.

 

Its really rough on you. I think you may find more help on other threads dealing with effects of withdrawing from several drugs.

 

What is your sleep hygiene like? I had a poor sleep last night but can blame it on several things I did ie missed the sleep train, had too much caffeine etc.

 

I hope you find some competent medical help - a benzo-wise doctor would be good as you still probably are affected by that taper.  LL

[[Lo...]]

Hi

I have recently started my tapper of Zoplicone. I Find that when i eat white bread before bedtime it really helps me sleep but I dont want to get into the habbit of eating bread every night before I go to sleep. I know banans and avocados are supposed to be good for sleep as well.  Any other foods that proved helpful for you?

Thanks

Carem

Cookies!!! Bananas are great but, like you, I am trying to avoid eating in the evenings. However, we need a certain amount of carbs and carb loading does calm the nervous system. MOst nights I don't indulge but if my body feels hyper and/or anxious I figure it is the lesser of 2 evils to have some sugar. I have heard that a tbsp of honey before bed works well.

 

According to Health, Wild and Free:

 

“Taking a spoonful of raw honey before sleep supplies your liver with glycogen storage when supports your liver in detoxification, circulation, hormone regulation and other functions to restore your body during rest. Additionally raw honey also contributes to melatonin being released in the brain which is an important sleep hormone for high-quality sleep.”

http://www.davidwolfe.com/mix-these-2-before-bed-and-never-wake-up-tired-again/

 

I'll take that with a grain of salt! Google and see what you think.  LL

[[Co...]]

Hi Corsair12, I'm so sorry to hear that you didn't sleep again. Very frustrating and of course you feel awful.

 

You sure have been on a mess of drugs over the past few years. I wonder who has been prescribing these to you? I'm surprised that you came off Trazodone before some others as that is often used to help with sleep and the wd from Benzos.

 

I do see that you have been off Benzos for some time. However, you appear to have protracted withdrawal. I wonder how wise it was to start another taper while still tapering from the last one.

 

Its really rough on you. I think you may find more help on other threads dealing with effects of withdrawing from several drugs.

 

What is your sleep hygiene like? I had a poor sleep last night but can blame it on several things I did ie missed the sleep train, had too much caffeine etc.

 

I hope you find some competent medical help - a benzo-wise doctor would be good as you still probably are affected by that taper.  LL

 

Either my psychiatrist or my general practitioner. So only ever taken those pills as prescribed, unfortunately doctors are clueless and it robbed me of my teens and twenties.

I'm not sure anymore of what I'm doing. What is a good idea or not. I started the trazodone as a help med when I rapid tapered the flurazepam (stupid idea, but my gp thought it was a good one because non addictive) Well I had a very bad reaction to it and I started tapering after two months. So I was on it for 4 months in total. I've been tapering the seroquel ever since too (also a helper med) But I hate how it makes me feel. So it's hard to know what I should do taper /not taper/quickly taper.

There are so many opinions, we all just try things I guess.

I don't regret coming off the pills though. I hate taking them. I just thought I would take them for a few weeks, well stupid me I guess.