ASHTON TAPER / CUT & HOLD SUPPORT

[[ch...]]

Yeahhhh buddday!

[[mr...]]

Yeahhhh buddday!

Boy, I missed u and thought u were gone for good.

Thanks for coming back!

[[ch...]]

I'm doing too dang well to not give trying to help others another chance. There's a few of Y'all that I've really been hoping have been doing alright. I've learned even more since I was last here. I've used myself as a guinea pig of sorts in trying different cycles according my my wellness hold aspect and validated it. By validated I mean I proposed it, did it, and had it agreed upon by a psychiatrist. The end result was success. so far so good.

[[mr...]]

I'm doing too dang well to not give trying to help others another chance. There's a few of Y'all that I've really been hoping have been doing alright. I've learned even more since I was last here. I've used myself as a guinea pig of sorts in trying different cycles according my my wellness hold aspect and validated it. By validated I mean I proposed it, did it, and had it agreed upon by a psychiatrist. The end result was success. so far so good.

Please, update us on your thread.

[[ov...]]

Chenraf and Meo:  I read your taper plan, and you speak waaaay above me!  My brain is not grasping this at all!  I am having problems keeping liquids down, I hope this changes as my  taper progresses, or I may be in trouble. 

 

Thanks OC  :smitten:

[Guest [Mo...]]

Hello again...

So, now that there is a party going on here, I just dropped by to see how people are doing and to say I will be starting my taper this coming week. I posted last week that I would start, but something came up and I needed to wait.

So, I think a 0.5 mgr off my 15 Valium to start with.

Kind of scary, but well, there it goes!

Hope you're all doing okay...

Mom of one.

[[ch...]]

mom, at 15mg valium how are your symptoms? Do you feel as good as you did prior to all the switching?

[[ch...]]

and overcomer, if you have any questions..even on how we started, etc... just ask! We solve this massive clump of problems by solving on problem and figuring out one answer at a time.

[[mr...]]

Chenraf and Meo:  I read your taper plan, and you speak waaaay above me!  My brain is not grasping this at all!  I am having problems keeping liquids down, I hope this changes as my  taper progresses, or I may be in trouble. 

 

Thanks OC  :smitten:

Hi over,

This type of taper plan that chrenraf is referring to is the symptom based tapering method.

He has come up with tapering and hold times which approximately match his body's healing rate.

That is all I know about it.

[Guest [Mo...]]

mom, at 15mg valium how are your symptoms? Do you feel as good as you did prior to all the switching?

 

Hi,

I never felt good prior to switching. I started feeling good after switching. I've been on full Valium for about a month now and started to stabilize about 2-3 weeks ago.

Things are looking up. I've felt better than I have since September of last year.

Starting tapering again soon!

[[ov...]]

Meo and Chen:  I have not stabalized from the K w/d in Nov.  So have many s/xs right now during this taper off temazepam/V.  Am down to 14 mg V.  I was due to cut another .5 tonight but because of all the stress at work I am going to hold for another week, which will make it a 3 week hold.  How long is too long to hold?

xo OC  :smitten:

[[ch...]]

mom: looking good! I like it.

 

Overcomer.....there is a huge disparage between 2mg K/day in November and 14mg Valium. No dang wonder you haven't felt right. That was a massive reduction.

 

I would talk to your doctor........ 2mgK = 40MG Valium. If I were you (and I knew I had no other conditions, etc) I would request to increase my Valium up by a bit until I was stabilized...then I would start going down. Where that is? I'm not sure. 20,25,30? Perhaps your body needs to roll all the way up to 40 in the end. Who knows. you have terrible symptoms right now and pressing forward is only going to put you behind. It is best to stabilize....you were stabilized before on 2mg/day at some point... so if you have to start there at the equivalent of valium...then so be it.

 

Then you can start the Ashton direct taper. (holding 3 weeks is A ok and a good idea) if you need to change to form a direct taper to a micro taper when you get lower (probably around 5mg for you...some it is at 1-2mg but usually those on 40mg+ doses 5mg is the sticking point)..then do it.

 

That's my advice.

[[ov...]]

Chenraf:  I was actually in tolerance w/d on 2mg K for a while, just didn't know it, so s/xs got worse with each drop of 2.5 here and there, per pdocs advice.  the tolerance w/d caused the insomnia, henceforth the temazepam (restoril) 30mg which is equivelent to 15 mg of V.  I have been off K since 11/22/13, I have heard it is waaay too late to reinstate. There is no guarantee that I will stabalize and then I could be on 40 mg of V. 

 

You are right I am in terrible pain and w/d.  Nothing helps.  I am surprised I am even alive and functioning, poorly I admit.  Problem is there are no guarantees in this crazy benzo world.

 

xo OC  :smitten:

[[no...]]

Hi Mom,

.5 really seems like a sensible cut to me. Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Nosery

[Guest [Mo...]]

Hi Mom,

.5 really seems like a sensible cut to me. Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Nosery

 

Thanks Nosery. I will.

Hope you're doing well...thanks for all.

[[ch...]]

Overcomer, true. You may end up on a higher dose. The decision is yours of course. It all depends on what you can handle and if your body can adjust to what was done to it. I've found the faster we push our pace, the longer the road turns out to be. If I were you I def would not cut for a while and try to rest!

[[dr...]]

Overcomer, I have to agree with Chen.  You did a half cold turkey. No wonder you feel like hell. I wouldn't cut for a very long while if you don't decide to updose    IMO you are putting yourself through unneeded hell if you can get the higher dose prescribed.  Even starting at 30mg would be better than where you are at. 

[[ov...]]

Drew and Chenraf:  Just did a little rereading of some of the Ashton manual and Dr Ashton states that it usually doesn't work to reinstate.  Especially I have kindled thru the years.  If I knew I would stabalize I would updose.  At this time I don't know how my body is holding up to this, my mind sure isn't.  The depressions and pain is intolerable.  I have new pdoc, he suggested Remeron or Seroquel.  I have such a bad rash, how can he even suggest trying a new drug.  He fixated on my 15 lb weightloss.  Seriously of the gazillion s/xs I gave him he focuses on weight loss.  He brings up anorexia, REALLY?  My hubby tells pdoc I am eating more than I was before.    He would only give me 1 month of V wants me to come back because of weight loss!

 

I am beginning to really hate doctors!

xo OC  :smitten:

[[mr...]]

Drew and Chenraf:  Just did a little rereading of some of the Ashton manual and Dr Ashton states that it usually doesn't work to reinstate.  Especially I have kindled thru the years.  If I knew I would stabalize I would updose.  At this time I don't know how my body is holding up to this, my mind sure isn't.  The depressions and pain is intolerable.  I have new pdoc, he suggested Remeron or Seroquel.  I have such a bad rash, how can he even suggest trying a new drug.  He fixated on my 15 lb weightloss.  Seriously of the gazillion s/xs I gave him he focuses on weight loss.  He brings up anorexia, REALLY?  My hubby tells pdoc I am eating more than I was before.    He would only give me 1 month of V wants me to come back because of weight loss!

 

I am beginning to really hate doctors!

xo OC  :smitten:

Hi OC,

My mom was has kindling due to being 5 months benzo free and healing well, but she went back to lorazepam prn.

After 10 months of prn, she ct'd for 1 month and ended up causing a dysfunction in her respiratory center of the brain.

The moving to valium didn't completely resolve this problem, but it stopped most of the sx's.

Reinstating doesn't always resolve all sx's, but it does resolve most.

Antipsychotics can cause permenant, irreversible brain damage (ex dystonia, tardive dyskinesia) and not an option IMO.

 

[[ov...]]

Meo:  You are right antisyhcotics  (sp)  are definitely dangerous.  The pdoc was talking about quality of life. I looked  at him and said "Doesn't Seroquel cause Parkinson's disease" he looked back at me and said yes.  This pdoc  only believes in small doses of benzos, as if this makes benzos OK,  so I don't think updosing would work with him.  My retired pdoc said he would have to refer me out to ?? if I wanted to reinstate K with V.  And here I was in so much pain.  At this time, 1was 1  week post K w/d, would have been a good time to reinstate.  Don't know that it would work now even if I could get  a doc to go along with it.  I have been off K for 5 months.  Ashton Manual said it usually doesn't work.    I am truly in benzo hell.

xo OC  :smitten:

[Guest [in...]]

Drew and Chenraf:  Just did a little rereading of some of the Ashton manual and Dr Ashton states that it usually doesn't work to reinstate.  Especially I have kindled thru the years.  If I knew I would stabalize I would updose.  At this time I don't know how my body is holding up to this, my mind sure isn't.  The depressions and pain is intolerable.  I have new pdoc, he suggested Remeron or Seroquel.  I have such a bad rash, how can he even suggest trying a new drug.  He fixated on my 15 lb weightloss.  Seriously of the gazillion s/xs I gave him he focuses on weight loss.  He brings up anorexia, REALLY?  My hubby tells pdoc I am eating more than I was before.    He would only give me 1 month of V wants me to come back because of weight loss!

 

I am beginning to really hate doctors!

xo OC  :smitten:

 

Oc, Im going to use Remeron once I get to lower doses of valium if I need it. Theres a thread under "Other Medications" titled "Remeron helps Benzo Withdrawal" or something similar. Ive taken Remeron b4 and its an easy on for me to start and stop and I only need 3.75mg(I quarter a 15mg pill) or up to 7.5mg. Higher doses worsened my anxiety, and next day hangover. I believe it helps with deep sleep, and stomach issues and nausea as well. good luck to u

[[ov...]]

Ingrid:  I took Remeron for a week back about 8 years ago.  I remember I retained a lot of water and wanted to eat the refrigerator.  I don't remember the dosage.  Also don't remember if it made me sleep either.  I have noticed a lot of BBs list Remeron in their signature.  I know that once the taper gets lower the insomnia begins.  That is why I ended up on temazepam as I was in tolerance K, didn't taper correctly and definitely ended up with insomnia, maybe sleeping 2 -4 hours a night and trying to work at a job.    Do you have a difficult time tapering off of it.  I am so afraid of meds right now.  Plus antidepressants tend to make a person's mouth dry and I have a problem with my mouth, actually my whole body being dry, especially the lips.  I am not producing any saliva.  The benzos have screwed me up big time.  Does Remeron help with acid reflux?

xo OC  :smitten:

 

[Guest [in...]]

OC, Ive not heard about acid reflux and remeron. I wonder if a pharmacist could tell you? I do know it can be gr8 for cancer patients that have nausea from chemo and  no appetite. And it will settle your stomach if u have start up issues with an ssri, like Zoloft.  Yes,its known for weight gain in some people. But, the key is to take a very small amt. Yes, the higher doses may dry ur mouth out, I'd say, not sure tho. But one poster told me that she takes a 1/4 of the 15mg remeron, chews it, then lets it dissolve under tongue, puts her into a good sleep, I think she started doing that at 5mg valium during her taper. I would consider this a much safer med than Seroquel since it's not an antipsychotic. I had no trouble starting or stopping this med. I took 7.5mg for 2/12 yrs. And I'll be taking it for any stomach issues or insomnia with my taper. I wish you the best

[Guest [in...]]

*took for 2 1/2 yrs

[[Li...]]

Read just the first few pages, but I think I might do a modified Ashton, meaning some longer holds, some possibly smaller cuts towards the end (under .5 mg Klonopin = 10 mg diazepam), and no diazepam. I'm already down from 6 mg of Klonopin in January to 2.25 mg (been making ~10% cuts every 2-3 weeks after an initial 33% cut). Got hit really hard at 2.5 for a couple of reasons, but I think overall this pace suits me. Plus I'm in grad school and working full-time.  There's just too much to do.  I'm 33 and might want kids in the next couple of years and I simply cannot be on this garbage if I want to get pregnant. I wanted to do the slow taper (5%) but really, really, do not want to wrap 2 years more of my life up in just the taper, never mind any after-effects.

 

I am concerned about protracted withdrawal, especially given my dose and usage length (5 years, though not at 6 mgs). There does seem to be some right-or-wrong scaremongering regarding quick tapers leading to PW, but I think it's mostly fear driving this perspective. We just don't have any hard data.  But I'm not reckless - obviously, very quick tapers for someone like me are inadvisable.

 

The long and short of is everyone is different; listen to your body; consider your circumstances; do your homework (but don't obsess), and don't let fear be the basis of your decisions.