Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[Se...]]

Don't be afraid.  It may really surprise you that you'll be o.k. once you fully adjust to the valium.  Please don't borrow tomorrow's worries or troubles today.  It is important to take it one step at a time and trust your doctor.  You will not die from this, it may be tough but you have support and you will get better, it just takes time.  Valium is a potent medicine, let your doctor work with you.  Trust them to help you - what have you got to lose.  Trying to do this yourself has only gotten you deeper and deeper into addiction and into this mess.  This is the point where you are for the first time taking a step to get your life back.  Take it one hour, one day at a time.

 

There is nowhere to go but up.  The most important decision I made was to start coming off this poison.  Find the stregth to fight for you.  I cannot stress the importance of honest here - secrets are the poison that got you here.  Find your inner voice and fight for your life back.

 

There is light at the end of this tunnel.  This is the most important thing I can tell you.  But you need to address the addiction and lying to yourself and to others that got you into this mess.  One baby step at a time.  There are lots of things that you can do to help yourself but honesty is key along with courage, and trust.

 

Stay strong.  Stay honest.  Communicate.  Fight for your life.

 

 

Ali

[[Tr...]]

Thank you. I hope it's ok to ask you more questions once I start the V.

[[Se...]]

Thank you. I hope it's ok to ask you more questions once I start the V.

 

Absolutely.  I didn't cross over but I'll do my best to help you find people here who can help.  There are so many here who care.  I'm glad you came on this site.  You need to help yourself but having reassurance is key.  You CAN do this.

 

:smitten:

 

Ali

[[Tr...]]

Thank you. I hope it's ok to ask you more questions once I start the V.

 

Absolutely.  I didn't cross over but I'll do my best to help you find people here who can help.  There are so many here who care.  I'm glad you came on this site.  You need to help yourself but having reassurance is key.  You CAN do this.

 

:smitten:

 

Ali

 

Thank you. Can you explain exactly what "cross over" entails and may I ask why you did not cross over?

[[Se...]]

Trudie,

 

OK, I'll try my best.  Maybe others can help here if I screw this up.

 

My doctors offered me a choice when I went for help, albeit at the tail end of my taper.  Their choices were:

 

1.  Continue the taper using a "direct" taper method where you do not cross over from the z-drug or short acting benzodiazepene to a long acting benzo like valium.  You stay on the drug (in my case the z-drug zopiclone) and do your taper by using smaller and smaller amounts of the drug that you are dependent on (i.e. zopiclone).  I tapered by "dry cutting" the pills into smaller and smaller pieces.  I would decrease (say from 15 mg to 11.25 mg) by snapping or cutting the pills.  Often I'd decrease and then hold at that new level for a month or more.  This is called a direct "taper".

 

2.  Cross over to a longer acting benzo before starting your taper.  They offered me this alternative, to cross over from zopiclone to a long acting benzo, in my case they offered me clonazapam which is what this particular Daytox group offers for cross over tapering.  I had no history of abusing the z drug so I decided to stay on the zopiclone and do a direct taper.

 

Many, many people "cross over" like you are going to do.  Dr. Ashton recommends valium as it is long acting which means that your blood levels can stay relatively constant during your taper and that you can hopefully do small cuts without feeling too ill.  Usually, but not always, they will do a "cross over" period where you start taking the valium in addition to the z drug in order to give your system time to build up constant blood levels of valium.  But you can do it by just crossing over with no overlap and many do.  I understand why your doctor is concerned about having you do a cross over and so has decided not to give you your drug of abuse, the z drug and instead put you on a fairly high dose of valium and taper you from there.

 

You sound like you are in good hands here and your job is to be honest and to meticulously follow the plan and to give your doctor honest feedback.  Keep a log of your symptoms and your sleep patterns each day but try to do your best to do what you can each day to stick to a routine and do what you can to get a bit of exercise and take care of yourself.

 

Don't worry, is the main thing.  Stay the course.  Communicate.  Throw away the remaining Sonata once you are on the valium and under no circumstances deviate from your doctor's instructions.  If you are having a hard time, let them know.  You can always slow down the taper if you hit rough waters.  You have to be honest here and tow the line.  Your life is on the line, addiction is a very serious, potentially life-threatening issue and you need expert advice given your history.

 

It will take a while for Valium to build up to a constant blood level but don't worry, it will start working right away.  Your doctor knows this and will work closely with you, I'm sure they are concerned about you given how much Sonata you've been using.

 

My heart goes out to you.  Good for you for getting help.  Now don't worry ahead of time, take things as they come.  Clear your schedule as much as you can to concentrate on getting well.  Minimize stress and go for regular counselling help, it is important.

 

:smitten:

 

SS

[[Tr...]]

Thank you so much. Can you try as best you can from your experience answer some other questions I have been concerned about?

 

1). My anxiety is coming from being extremely regimented and my routine of taking 400mg of Z a day. I psychologically don't know how to handle just having seven Pills for one day and how to spread them out. I don't know if you have any recommendations for this.

 

2). My panic also stems from the fact that 70 mg V is not the equivalent dose to the amount of Z I am taking. I am fearful of the withdrawal symptoms I'll be going through. I had somebody tell me that has been through this it will be painful. If I know ahead of time what to expect it helps me to mentally prepare. Any advice based on your experience what some of the symptoms might be?

 

3). I have been unable to eat due to the constant state of tolerance with the drawled because I am nauseous and sick all the time. Well I start to get my appetite back once I start taking the V?

 

4). I am trying to clear my schedule as much as possible. The doctor does not want me driving on V. Can you recommend what things I can pick up at the store if my appetite will come back or some things I should have on hand at home so I don't have to drive?

 

5). I sincerely appreciate your help with all of this. In your opinion, am I making the right decision to cheaper with a benzo versus going CT with non-controlled medications to deal with the symptoms? I keep getting different advice from different places that I could do this without a benzo taper.

 

I might think of more questions if that's OK. It's already been a long day and I'm exhausted. But I appreciate your help more than I can say.

[[Se...]]

Trudie,

 

Don't, please don't cold turkey off this amount of medication.  This would be the very WORST option.

 

Please bring up your concerns with your doctor.  You are frankly in uncharted waters here, none of us on these boards are in a position to give you medical advice based on your using unprecedented amounts of this medication.  You MUST have professional help.

 

If I were you, I would seriously think about asking this doctor, the one that is willing to carefully wean you using Valium, to put in place a back up plan that perhaps sees you going inpatient somewhere where you can be medically supervised while you make the cross over to valium and for the period after this transition to ensure you are medically safe and supported.

 

The is serious business.  You have abused this medication and are in a serious situation.  Please do not cold turkey at this level.  Work with your doctor, form a backup plan, seriously consider going in patient to start your taper.  You may indeed become very ill but cold turkey is the worst possible way to go.  Please, please get competent and caring help.

 

You need real care here.  I cannot be more clear.  You may be o.k. spacing out your doses but please, please put in place a back up plan in case you aren't and consider going inpatient, not to cold turkey but to get you stable through this initial taper.

 

Hopefully, once your blood levels of valium get stabilized, your inter-dose anxiety will go away and you'll start to feel better.  At a minimum, get some smoothie powder and ensure drinks (I use Vega smoothie powder) and if you are nauseated, make sure you are getting calories from liquids if you are having a hard time eating.

 

This is serious Trudie but I know you know this.  You really need expert help here.  Please please consider a back up plan to go inpatient if you have problems.  It is so important that you have this on standby in case you run into issues.

 

You need to be taking these questions and fears to this new doctor and maybe this post/email from me and have a serious talk about backup plans and how to give you the most support possible.

 

I am concerned about you too.  Please look into this.

 

 

Ali

[[Tr...]]

Thank you for your reply. I hear your concerns. I will not go cold turkey. I did ask the V doc all the questions I posted to you but he just said everything will be fine, which is why I posted them here to you. He gave me a med for nausea (that I have not taken) and that was it. I see him on Thursday. I don't have insurance so inpatient is not possible. I was upfront with the doc about this and he thinks the plan we have will work and be ok. I know I may have given off the impression of being dishonest but I have been completely honest with this doc. I have waited a month to start the V taper due to family emergencies and have had a bottle of V that I have not touched this whole time . I have checked in with the doc each week saying I can't start yet bc of the family issues but I will let you know once I do. I hope I'm making sense. It's been a long day and I'm exhausted. I know I need help and that's why I'm posting and doing all I can. Thank you for your replies. They mean so much to me and keep me going.

[[Se...]]

Thank you for your reply. I hear your concerns. I will not go cold turkey. I did ask the V doc all the questions I posted to you but he just said everything will be fine, which is why I posted them here to you. He gave me a med for nausea (that I have not taken) and that was it. I see him on Thursday. I don't have insurance so inpatient is not possible. I was upfront with the doc about this and he thinks the plan we have will work and be ok. I know I may have given off the impression of being dishonest but I have been completely honest with this doc. I have waited a month to start the V taper due to family emergencies and have had a bottle of V that I have not touched this whole time . I have checked in with the doc each week saying I can't start yet bc of the family issues but I will let you know once I do. I hope I'm making sense. It's been a long day and I'm exhausted. I know I need help and that's why I'm posting and doing all I can. Thank you for your replies. They mean so much to me and keep me going.

 

Trudie,

 

It will be o.k.  I'm sure that he will monitor you VERY closely.  The addictions specialists who helped me at the end of my taper didn't even do inpatient tapering or "detoxes" any more, the patients needed far more time to taper.  They do all of these on an outpatient basis.

 

I didn't mean to say you were being deceptive with this doctor, not at all.  I just meant that thinking of supplementing with the z drugs you have left without telling them was a very bad idea and was emblamatic of the type of thinking you have to let go of.

 

It is good that you have something for the nausea.  Once you start the taper, you have to force yourself to drink ensure or smoothies even if you can't do food, just get the calories in.  Ginger ale too if you aren't diabetic.

 

It is good that you waited until the stress is off to do this.  You probably need to be in really close communication with your doctor at the beginning.  And you have the boards.  There are some other non-benzo meds that others have used with some success but I'm sure he will help you there - I used some trazodone for sleep, others have used some remeron (which also stimulates appetite and at low doses can help wth sleep) and some people have had some success with gabapentin.  But for now, just try not to worry.  The doctor is trying to get you not to worry and just work with him to see how things go.  They will step in if you start having any real problems.

 

You are being very brave here.  I'm glad my words of encouragement have helped.  Stay strong and lean on others in your real life, you will need understanding and support.  Please don't worry but just take things step by step.  You might want to dose the valium in divided doses during the day if it helps you at first, you need to ask your doctor about that too.

 

I'll try to support and once you are on the valium, the valium support group can help you too and the taper boards.  There is lots of help here, the mods are very experienced.  I am so glad you found a good doctor who understands how to do this.

 

 

SS

[[Tr...]]

Thank you so much!

 

I told the doc I was thinking of cutting the 10s in half just to fool my brain into thinking I have more than just "7" to get me through the day and he was ok with that. He did say to take 2 when I go to sleep. Can you offer your opinion on how I should spread them out throughout the day? I work best on a schedule and it would ease my anxiety to have a schedule of when I can take the V. The doc just wrote : take 1 tablet 7 times a day"

[[Se...]]

Try spacing them out like he suggests initially.  Some people do a bigger dose at bedtime but trust me, once your blood levels get stable (it takes awhile) it shouldn't really matter too much but you might want to take 2 at bedtime if you find it helps with sleep and 5 spaced out the rest of the day.  You are just going to have to try it and see.  It won't be quite like the effect of the z drug but I think you were getting pretty tolerant to that - you may not be tolerant to the valium.  You aren't always cross-tolerant (showing the same tolerance build up) when you change over, you'll know after a few weeks I think.

 

There are no hard and fast rules here, you will have to play around within the daily dose he gives you.  I think you'll find it much better, you won't have the interdose withdrawal after your blood levels stabilize.

 

I'm very glad you reached out for help.  Well, off to bed!  I'm adding you to my prayers.

 

Bless you, Trudie.  You are doing the absolutely right thing here to get help.

 

SS

[[Tr...]]

Sweet Dreams and thank you so much!

[[Tr...]]

Try spacing them out like he suggests initially.  Some people do a bigger dose at bedtime but trust me, once your blood levels get stable (it takes awhile) it shouldn't really matter too much but you might want to take 2 at bedtime if you find it helps with sleep and 5 spaced out the rest of the day.  You are just going to have to try it and see.  It won't be quite like the effect of the z drug but I think you were getting pretty tolerant to that - you may not be tolerant to the valium.  You aren't always cross-tolerant (showing the same tolerance build up) when you change over, you'll know after a few weeks I think.

 

There are no hard and fast rules here, you will have to play around within the daily dose he gives you.  I think you'll find it much better, you won't have the interdose withdrawal after your blood levels stabilize.

 

I'm very glad you reached out for help.  Well, off to bed!  I'm adding you to my prayers.

 

Bless you, Trudie.  You are doing the absolutely right thing here to get help.

 

SS

 

Thank you again. I saw the doc today and expressed my concerns and he increased my V dose to 90mg per day which in and of itself decreases my anxiety around this. So we will see how it goes. I'm still nervous but he is a good doc and appreciate me coming in to talk with him face to face about my concerns.

[[Tr...]]

Also, I wasn't sure the outline for doing a proper signature?

[[Se...]]

They should have given you a link in your intro post on how to create a signature.  You just decide yourself what you'd like to put in there, most of us put the amount and type of benzo / z-drug we have been on and for how long and then track our taper i.e. date and new level and maybe how you are feeling a bit.  Have a look at some others for an idea - maybe have a look on the taper board for people who are tapering and see what theirs looks like.

 

Let me know if you have any problems.  You can also report a problem to helpdesk and ask them to resend you the info for your signature if you can't find it or go back to other people's intros and look to find one that does have the link.  You go to profile (above) and click on the right link, I can't remember which one but the instructions tell you.  Then you type in the field that pops up.

 

Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it.  I didn't create a signature for awhile but it helps others to help you so it is a good idea.

 

 

SS

[[Tr...]]

Thank you! I will work on that! Did you see my other reply?

[[Se...]]

Thank you! I will work on that! Did you see my other reply?

 

Sorry I missed this and yes, this is great news.  Look, he'll start to trust you as you earn it and communicate with him.  I'm sure he is very concerned and doesn't want to see you get really ill here.  The key thing is trust and working out solutions based on communicating how you feel at each step.  Go slowly.  Decrease slowly, as slowly as you can negotiate.  Negotiate a hold if the decrease really sets you back until it settles down.  But keep plugging away at it, you can usually cut 5 to 10% every 10 days to 2 weeks until you hit the smaller doses, then you might have to slow down.  It will take a few weeks I think for the valium to build up to constant levels in your blood stream so work closely with him then.  The valium taper support group can also help and there is a lot of help on the taper boards.

 

I have my fingers crossed.  Am very proud of you for getting help with this.  It has been a long road for me but now at 28 months off, I'm finally getting so much better and best of all, I'm getting my life back.  Others have healed more quickly, I was very ill but this is not always the case.  Think positively and I hope that things will go just fine.  Getting counselling is probably the very best thing, get some tools to deal with things in your life instead of turning to pills.  It has helped me tremendously to get some counselling help.

 

Going to go to sleep now, hope you have a good night.  Talk to you tomorrow.  Glad things are working out.

 

 

Ali

[[Tr...]]

Thank you so much! Sweet Dreams!

[[Ca...]]

Thank you so much. Can you try as best you can from your experience answer some other questions I have been concerned about?

 

1). My anxiety is coming from being extremely regimented and my routine of taking 400mg of Z a day. I psychologically don't know how to handle just having seven Pills for one day and how to spread them out. I don't know if you have any recommendations for this.

 

2). My panic also stems from the fact that 70 mg V is not the equivalent dose to the amount of Z I am taking. I am fearful of the withdrawal symptoms I'll be going through. I had somebody tell me that has been through this it will be painful. If I know ahead of time what to expect it helps me to mentally prepare. Any advice based on your experience what some of the symptoms might be?

 

3). I have been unable to eat due to the constant state of tolerance with the drawled because I am nauseous and sick all the time. Well I start to get my appetite back once I start taking the V?

 

4). I am trying to clear my schedule as much as possible. The doctor does not want me driving on V. Can you recommend what things I can pick up at the store if my appetite will come back or some things I should have on hand at home so I don't have to drive?

 

5). I sincerely appreciate your help with all of this. In your opinion, am I making the right decision to cheaper with a benzo versus going CT with non-controlled medications to deal with the symptoms? I keep getting different advice from different places that I could do this without a benzo taper.

 

I might think of more questions if that's OK. It's already been a long day and I'm exhausted. But I appreciate your help more than I can say.

 

I just looked up sonata. The recommended dose is 5 mg. And up to 20 mg. In some cases.

 

Did you type your amount correctly?  400mg? That is approximately 80 times the recommended dose.

 

[[Tr...]]

Yes carol , I typed my dose correctly . I started taking sonata 5 years ago for my chronic insomnia and started at 10mg per night. That did not work after a few months and my doc increased it to 15mg then 20mg. I became addicted to it and over the course of these past give years worked up to take 40 10 mg sonata a day , spread out throughout the day.

[[al...]]

Hi Trudiehaze,

 

Wow, I really feel for you. What a hard time you must have been going through with all of that medication going on. It is amazing that you are as together as you seem to be. What made you finally pull yourself together and commit to getting off of the Sonata? I am real glad that you did. It is probably going to be a bit of a battle, but do not ever think about giving up. You have a chance to get your life back and have a future. That chance may not wait forever so now is the time. It sounds like there are many people in this forum who will be rooting for. I am one.

 

I don't know how you managed to get your hands on so much Sonata to feed your habit, but I hope that the pathway you used dries up so others don't get into such a jam.

[[Tr...]]

Thank you. I have been in hell and feeling like I'm living in a constant nightmare ...I'm sick with the Z and sick without so that is what made me seek help. I go through inter dose / withdrawal throughout the day and have extreme panic attacks and anxiety, among other sx. I can't eat, nausea, gagging, body aches and pains, and the list goes on and on. I'm starting my cross over tonight and terrified bc I have very little Z left and my doc won't prescribe more Z. Can you take V with food. The only thing I am able to eat is yogurt before bed so wanted to know when I take the 20V at 11pm if I can eat some yogurt and then go to bed . Thank you for reaching out. I am alone in this except for my doc and this forum. I need your support!

[[...]]

Trudie, you taken 400mg of a Z drug? Daily??

[[al...]]

Trudie,

 

I'm glad that you found this forum. It has been really good for me. It is there for you 24/7 and is a good way to get things off of your chest, a source of information and even a good social outlet. Being able to communicate with others who can relate to your situation helps with your healing. Just know that most of us are not doctors or benzo/Z drug experts so we can only give advice based upon  personal experience. A good doctor is really needed to guide you through your journey. Too many mistakes can be made when dealing with the prescription amounts that you are taking. I got into a lot of trouble doing things on my own.

[[Tr...]]

Trudie,

 

I'm glad that you found this forum. It has been really good for me. It is there for you 24/7 and is a good way to get things off of your chest, a source of information and even a good social outlet. Being able to communicate with others who can relate to your situation helps with your healing. Just know that most of us are not doctors or benzo/Z drug experts so we can only give advice based upon  personal experience. A good doctor is really needed to guide you through your journey. Too many mistakes can be made when dealing with the prescription amounts that you are taking. I got into a lot of trouble doing things on my own.

 

Thank you. Can I ask how you got in trouble doing things on your own?