Micro tapering with Jewelers scales

[[bu...]]

This thread is great!  I'm glad it's around because a lot of people say micro tapering is the way to go but can't tolerate liquid dosing.  It is pretty cool that you get to keep the extra benzo that you're not using also.  You can use it for adding to the scale like mentioned, or I guess if you were having an emergency where your symptoms were out of control you could take just a pinch of the powder as a rescue dose.  I just never like that with liquid tapering that you literally throw what you don't use down the drain.

[[bu...]]

This thread is great!  I'm glad it's around because a lot of people say micro tapering is the way to go but can't tolerate liquid dosing.  It is pretty cool that you get to keep the extra benzo that you're not using also.  You can use it for adding to the scale like mentioned, or I guess if you were having an emergency where your symptoms were out of control you could take just a pinch of the powder as a rescue dose. I just never like that with liquid tapering that you literally throw what you don't use down the drain.

  Absolutely false.  There is no reason you should ever throw away any liquid benzo, unless your doing milk and the milk soured.

 

I did a liquid taper for 2 years, and never discarded a drop.  I did Rx liquid, but you could follow the exact same procedure with the vodka mix or  propylene glycol.  And as long as you take reasonable care planning and dosing a milk taper, you probably won't need to throw away in benzo milk.

[[bu...]]

Hmmm, from what I was told if you just put the benzo in water it would only be good for a day or two even if you refrigerated it.  It's a lot easier to store the powder from pills in my opinion anyway.  And unless you get a completely compounded formula from the pharmacy I still have a hard time believing that the PG or vodka can evenly disperse the medication in water. 

[[bu...]]

Hmmm, from what I was told if you just put the benzo in water it would only be good for a day or two even if you refrigerated it. 

 

Diazepam and plain water do NOT make a stable, uniformly distributed solution, but if dissolved in a solvent like alcohol or PG then diluted with water , it has a long stable shelf life  The vodka/water solution or the PG/water solution will keep for weeks, even at room temp.  It really should NOT be refrigerated.

 

  It's a lot easier to store the powder from pills in my opinion anyway.  And unless you get a completely compounded formula from the pharmacy I still have a hard time believing that the PG or vodka can evenly disperse the medication in water.

 

What do you think the Rx liquid diazepam formulations are?  The Diazepam Oral Solution is diazepam dissolved in PG, and diluted with water.  It has a 3 year shelf life from dated of manufacture.  The Diazepman Intensol is diazepam dissolved in a mixture of alcohol and glycol, and diluted with water.  It also has a 3 year shelf life if it remains sealed, and then has 90 day shelf life after its opened.  And the reason for the 90 day life after opening is beccause the alcohol evaporates, NOT because there is any change in the structure of the diazepam.  The actual drug diazepam is exceptionally stable and has an estimated effective life of 5-6 years.  Dissolving it does not change is chemical composition, it only changes it from a solid  to a liquid. 

 

 

I realize your a fan of cut&weigh tapering, and that's fine.  Everyone should follow whatever protocol they feel comfortable with.  But the different methods of liquid tapering also work very well, and many folks have had great success with liquid.  I'm only trying to correct some of the myths and misunderstandings so others are not frightened away.  If I did not contradict your post, I guarantee that in a few weeks or months someone will post "I can't use liquid because I read it only lasts a day", or "I can't do liquid because I read  it loses it's potency", or I can't do liquid because I read  I'll have to throw away part of my dose, and  I'll run out of med."

 

  Folks need to have accurate info to make the choices they think will work for them

[[bu...]]

I don't advocate any method over another.  Liquid tapering didn't work for me so I went with dry cutting and it's been working well.  I think everybody needs to try different things to see what works for them.  And if someone can explain to me how PG or vodka mixes evenly in water then I'm all ears. 

[[et...]]

I'm sorry Builder I  just don't really understand why you keep "selling" the liquid taper on a dry cut with jewelers scale thread. People will go to other threads to find out about the liquid taper. People here don't really need to read arguments either way because they have come here for 1 reason. To find out how to dry cut daily taper with jewelers scale.

As I said above, I have no doubt that the liquid taper works for many. I tried it and decided to stick to the scales. It worked for me and that's why I started this thread.

There's a great fight going on over on the V thread that has become a daily MT with liquid or stay away thread. Maybe you can go over there and referee the fight with all your liquid buddies.

etown

[[bu...]]

1) 

Everyone should follow whatever protocol they feel comfortable with.

 

2)

the different methods of liquid tapering also work very well,

 

3)

I'm only trying to correct some of the myths and misunderstandings so others are not frightened away.

 

 

 

 

 

[[CM...]]

Hello all - I am so happy with this method of tapering and have lots of time to dry run it I thought it was time I share it with everybody.

THIS IS ONLY THE METHOD I USE AND HAVE FOUND IT VERY GOOD FOR ME. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT AND MY WAY IS NOT NECESSARILY THE RIGHT WAY. I DO FEEL, HOWEVER, THAT IN CONSULTATION WITH BUDDIES USING SIMILAR METHODS IT WARRANTS A GOOD LOOK.

I use a Jewelers scale and 2mg Valium tablets.

 

I took the 2mg tablet of Valium and weighed a bunch to get an average weight per tablet. My 2mg tablet weighs .160 grams or .016mg. I then picked a taper rate I felt was a good conservative place to start.  The way I can to this is I felt if I dropped 2mg in 120 days that would be a good start and help me build some confidence. So, .160 grams divided by 120 days = .0013 grams per day. I then put all this into an excel spreadsheet and the daily taper numbers calculate themselves...easy peezy!. For example - Day 1,  .160-.0013=.1587 rounded up to .159, Day 2, .159-.0013=.1577 rounded to .158g and so on all the way down to 0 in 120 days =2mg. I went at this rate past my "lag time" (lag time is the time it takes for a bigger cut to hit you) which for me is between 3 and 4 weeks. (most people I have talked to are 0-2 weeks) Once I passed my "lag time" and still felt tolerable symptoms I knew I could speed up a bit so I went to .0015g, plugged the new number into my spreadsheet and poof everything is calculated for you. I went past my lag time again with tolerable symptoms so I recently increased to .0017g. When I get to a point where I get an upswing in symptoms that are not easily tolerated I may hold or decrease my rate a bit. This is called finding your "optimum daily taper rate". Please keep a close eye on your symptoms and adjust quickly as you move down to keep symptoms tolerable. The "optimum daily taper rate" may decrease as you go down. FOR ME all signs and my science say it will. For symptoms I use the 70/30 theory, 70 being good and 30 being tolerable. I have set up a chart of symptoms that I fill out at my worst time each day and my wife looks at it before we talk about it so she can get a handle on how things are in real time.

AGAIN THIS IS MY METHOD ONLY AND IS NOT GUARANTEED TO BE FOR EVERYBODY

etown

P.S. ALL QUESTIONS SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THIS THREAD AND NOT THE PM SYSTEM

 

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I have a question about this.

Are you using a new single pill every when you do this, or are you crushing a few pills at a time and using that powder to get your dose from every day?

[[et...]]

Hey your lucky day! I'm never on here any more. Just checked on a whim. Anyway, I used the whole 2mg pill up. 160mg was a whole pill so sometimes cut it in half and worked away at the 80mg.

 

etown

[[et...]]

And....I used a nail file to reduce the size of the tablet to what I needed.

 

etown

[[CM...]]

Hey your lucky day! I'm never on here any more. Just checked on a whim. Anyway, I used the whole 2mg pill up. 160mg was a whole pill so sometimes cut it in half and worked away at the 80mg.

 

etown

Thanks for responding.

Ok so if I’m coming off a 2mg pill - I would break that in half, weigh the half that I’m swallowing. Then subtract that from my daily dose that day and shave off what I need to shave off on the other half??

[[et...]]

You bet! Man I love smart people. I did daily tapering this way then switched back to cut and hold. It worked fine both ways

 

etown

[[CM...]]

- So u use a nail filer or a razor to scrape it down?

What if u scrape too much off? Do u scrap it into something so that you have the scrapings if you scraped too much?

And when u did cut and hold did u do like 5% every 14 days or so?

[[et...]]

Like I said above I used a nail file. I filed and weighed and filed and weighed until I had the right weight. Being a bit off in weight does not matter with cut and hold. My taper rate is summarized in my signature

etown