Micro tapering with Jewelers scales

[[et...]]

Hi Pete - I have 2 Gemini Pro 20 portable scales and they are both awesome

etown

[[pe...]]

what brand are they etown...

 

 

[[dp...]]

I use this scale: fwiw.... works great

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ESGK8WW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[[et...]]

Hi Pete - I have 2 Gemini Pro 20 portable scales and they are both awesome

etown

[[bu...]]

Hey there, this is an old topic but it was exactly I've been looking for.  I'm on 10mg of Valium and looking to do daily micro cuts.  Tried liquid tapering and couldn't tolerate it at all so I bought a Gemini scale.  Is there a verdict about the actual medication being evenly dispered throughout the pill?  I guess you just have to have faith with it.  Also to go at the pace I was planning I'd have to shave off .002g each day from my pills.  Is that really hard to do or is it pretty doable to cut that amount each day?  Thanks!

[[Cr...]]

Scales are great, but nowhere near as accurate as liquid tapers because, according to my pharmacist, the actual active ingredients are NOT evenly distributed across pills. When you crush them up and make a liquid solution, you guarantee equal distribution. 

[[et...]]

Hey there, this is an old topic but it was exactly I've been looking for.  I'm on 10mg of Valium and looking to do daily micro cuts.  Tried liquid tapering and couldn't tolerate it at all so I bought a Gemini scale.  Is there a verdict about the actual medication being evenly dispered throughout the pill?  I guess you just have to have faith with it.  Also to go at the pace I was planning I'd have to shave off .002g each day from my pills.  Is that really hard to do or is it pretty doable to cut that amount each day?  Thanks!

 

I did it while microtapering with ease. If you are tapering valium the difference in the pill does not matter because of long half life. I used the same pill as much as possible in concurrent days and shaved from different parts of the pill each day. I did a liquid MT also and I'm sorry I can't see drawing 2ml out of 100ml with a syringe any more accurate. Do I stir fast or slow, 3 times to the right and then 3 times to the left? Do I draw it out right away or wait for it to settle down.

All methods work equally as good as long as you are going down at a sensible rate.

etown

[[Cr...]]

You don't have to stir at all. Nor watch it settle. It's a solution, not a suspension. 

[[et...]]

You don't have to stir at all. Nor watch it settle. It's a solution, not a suspension. 

 

The original question was about the scale and it worked great for me.

 

good luck all

etown

[[Cr...]]

You don't have to stir at all. Nor watch it settle. It's a solution, not a suspension. 

 

The original question was about the scale and it worked great for me.

 

good luck all

etown

 

That's awesome! 

[[GA...]]

Hi Anu - I have no experience with Ativan. I don't think the scale method will work very good for Ativan because the pills are too small to get accurate reading unless your scale measures to 4 decimal points or micrograms. That's why I always suggest crossing over to Valium. I do know that .002mg/day of Valium is .02mg of Valium / day. I my opinion that is too fast for you. .001mg Ativan / day is .010mg Valium and is a good taper rate for you again IMO. Remind me why your Doctor won't switch you to Valium. I think it could make a big difference for you.

etown

sorry it took a while for me to answer I have had a bad bout of stomach flu today

 

I've ordered a Gemini 20 scale from Amazon, will get it this week. It is supposed to be a .001 scale, and I read that .001 gram is one milligram. But it was explained to me that a one milligram pill actually weighs much more than one milligram - there's a difference between the amount of miligrams of medication in the pill and the milligram weight of the pill, due to binders, fillers, etc. So that eased my mind.

 

Now referring to something you said. Suppose I'm cutting so far down that the fragment won't even weigh on the scale at .001. Wouldn't it be possible to start with some kind of tiny weight, maybe even a pill or fraction of a pill, note that weight, then add your tiny fraction to the scale. Simply note the difference between the original weight and the tiny fraction you're going to take. I hope I made that clear. I haven't even gotten the scale yet so I don't know how it will actually work, but if it does, that would be a way to find the weight of the tiniest pill fraction that wouldn't even register on the scale by itself. What do you think of that?

[[et...]]

Hi Anu - I have no experience with Ativan. I don't think the scale method will work very good for Ativan because the pills are too small to get accurate reading unless your scale measures to 4 decimal points or micrograms. That's why I always suggest crossing over to Valium. I do know that .002mg/day of Valium is .02mg of Valium / day. I my opinion that is too fast for you. .001mg Ativan / day is .010mg Valium and is a good taper rate for you again IMO. Remind me why your Doctor won't switch you to Valium. I think it could make a big difference for you.

etown

sorry it took a while for me to answer I have had a bad bout of stomach flu today

 

 

I've ordered a Gemini 20 scale from Amazon, will get it this week. It is supposed to be a .001 scale, and I read that .001 gram is one milligram. But it was explained to me that a one milligram pill actually weighs much more than one milligram - there's a difference between the amount of miligrams of medication in the pill and the milligram weight of the pill, due to binders, fillers, etc. So that eased my mind.

 

Now referring to something you said. Suppose I'm cutting so far down that the fragment won't even weigh on the scale at .001. Wouldn't it be possible to start with some kind of tiny weight, maybe even a pill or fraction of a pill, note that weight, then add your tiny fraction to the scale. Simply note the difference between the original weight and the tiny fraction you're going to take. I hope I made that clear. I haven't even gotten the scale yet so I don't know how it will actually work, but if it does, that would be a way to find the weight of the tiniest pill fraction that wouldn't even register on the scale by itself. What do you think of that?

 

With Valium it is never a problem. The Ativan can be tricky of course but shouldn't give you any issues until you get near the end. At that time you will be a pro with the scale and can experiment with ways to get tiny amounts measured. Below .001 or 1 mg by weight can't be done with accuracy.

etown

[[bu...]]

I've heard that the medication isn't always evenly distributed but it doesn't matter that much, especially with the long half life of Valium (as mentioned) and the fact that you're taking a tiny little bit off everyday.  Someone said "Accuracy isn't as important as consistency", so that works for me.  I'd love for liquid tapering to work but my body couldn't tolerate it at all.  Even if you make a solution with propylene glycol or alcohol you'll still have to mix and suspend that in water, and for some reason I just don't completely trust that to be evenly dispered.  But some people swear by LT.  If I can I make the scale work that's the method I'd like to stick with.  Thanks for the replies!

[[en...]]

Is it possible to do this with Klonopin? If so is there a link with instructions? I own the Gemini scale and was going to try larger cuts initially. But I'm terrified. I'm also new here and am having issues finding my way around.

[[et...]]

Is it possible to do this with Klonopin? If so is there a link with instructions? I own the Gemini scale and was going to try larger cuts initially. But I'm terrified. I'm also new here and am having issues finding my way around.

 

If you follow the instructions in the first post what is the weight of an average tablet?

etown

[[en...]]

I'm using 0.5 mg tablets in the day and a 2.0 mg at night. I currently take 3.25 mg total of Klonopin. I know, it's a lot.

I was going to try decreasing the morning dose by 0.25. My math is horrific but my husband tells me that's less than 10% total. I've also considered a 4-5% decrease instead.

 

I'm new here. The task seems insurmountable. But it has to be done. I believe I've developed tolerance. My pdoc says just to get rid of part of the meds. We differ in opinion. I have not made a cut yet. Trying to learn all I can. It looks to me like the microtaper is best for much lower doses.

 

Oh, in answer to your question, my average pill weighs .168 no matter what strength.

 

I haven't even figured out how to join groups here yet. I guess I'm overwhelmed.

[[et...]]

I'm using 0.5 mg tablets in the day and a 2.0 mg at night. I currently take 3.25 mg total of Klonopin. I know, it's a lot.

I was going to try decreasing the morning dose by 0.25. My math is horrific but my husband tells me that's less than 10% total. I've also considered a 4-5% decrease instead.

 

I'm new here. The task seems insurmountable. But it has to be done. I believe I've developed tolerance. My pdoc says just to get rid of part of the meds. We differ in opinion. I have not made a cut yet. Trying to learn all I can. It looks to me like the microtaper is best for much lower doses.

 

Oh, in answer to your question, my average pill weighs .168 no matter what strength.

 

 

 

 

I haven't even figured out how to join groups here yet. I guess I'm overwhelmed.

 

Take a deep breath. You can read some of my posts when I was daily tapering with the scale. Its easy you just take the weight of the pill .168 and divide by the number of days you want to taper to cut that amount. I was on K and crossed to Valium. If it was me I would cross over part of your dose Say 1 mg=20mg of Valium and just taper the Valium down each time. If you are in tolerance the Valium will really help the symptoms off the hop. Tapering while in tolerance can be uncomfortable especially from your dose all the way down.

etown

[[GA...]]

I'm using 0.5 mg tablets in the day and a 2.0 mg at night. I currently take 3.25 mg total of Klonopin. I know, it's a lot.

I was going to try decreasing the morning dose by 0.25. My math is horrific but my husband tells me that's less than 10% total. I've also considered a 4-5% decrease instead.

 

I'm new here. The task seems insurmountable. But it has to be done. I believe I've developed tolerance. My pdoc says just to get rid of part of the meds. We differ in opinion. I have not made a cut yet. Trying to learn all I can. It looks to me like the microtaper is best for much lower doses.

 

Oh, in answer to your question, my average pill weighs .168 no matter what strength.

 

I haven't even figured out how to join groups here yet. I guess I'm overwhelmed.

 

I went to see my doctor today. You know the rounds; I have to go in once a month to see him to get the benzo prescriptions.

 

I've mentioned tapering to him before, but he didn't seem too interested. Today I spoke to him in depth, he knows that benzos are addicting. He knows about BB and the Ashton Method. I asked him what he thought of the crossover to Valium.

 

He said that he doesn't like switching a patient to a different drug that is also additing. I started talking about half-lifes and about the desirability of going to a long-lasting substitute. That is when he seemed interested in what I had to say. We had a good 5-10 minutes talk about benzos and benzo withdrawal. He said that he probably would switch me to Valium if I thought it was necessary.

 

I have to wonder about doctors that want you to suddenly quit. Maybe they want to see if you have any problems withdrawing. And if you do, maybe they'll switch you to another drug. But it will usually be another addicting one.

 

I have made it my number one priority to get off of this stuff. I hope that you make it to where you can decide what to do and do it in a way that is best and easiest for you. There is a lot to read and discover here.

[[en...]]

Sounds like a very understanding doctor.

 

Mine typically is but when I spoke with him about the Ashton Manual and cross-tapering he told me to stay off the internet. Sigh. Said I was just creating more anxiety for myself. Perhaps, but I need to know what I'm getting into and the best approach.

 

I believe I'm showing signs of tolerance and need to come off. It's a long story. I don't think my doctor's taper schedule is going to be very comfortable. And, I have other health issues that I struggle with.

 

So much to try to figure out. Obviously I'll be under a doctor's care for medication checks. I am going to have to find my own path on the taper though...hopefully. Time will tell how it all works out.

 

 

[[et...]]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but as gaba said above Doctors write the prescriptions.....we run the taper. The other way around is what got us here and it doesn't work.

etown

[[en...]]

I might try to talk to my pdoc about that. He and I have known each other for years. I approached him about crossover and he seemed slightly put-off. Told me to stop reading the internet as it was scaring me. I guess it has but his approach of a partial taper at 1/8 of a pill every two weeks is terrifying to me.

 

Maybe I could get him to see the light and we could do this in stages.

 

He hasn't come out and said "tolerance" but did ask "wouldn't you want to stop taking medicine if it isn't helping you." Of course I do...seems all of it has to go but he wants to leave the 2 mg which he originally put me on. It all has be very confused and a little depressing.

 

I suppose if I can't crossover I'll have to try this microtapering in one form or another.

[[et...]]

I might try to talk to my pdoc about that. He and I have known each other for years. I approached him about crossover and he seemed slightly put-off. Told me to stop reading the internet as it was scaring me. I guess it has but his approach of a partial taper at 1/8 of a pill every two weeks is terrifying to me.

 

Maybe I could get him to see the light and we could do this in stages.

 

He hasn't come out and said "tolerance" but did ask "wouldn't you want to stop taking medicine if it isn't helping you." Of course I do...seems all of it has to go but he wants to leave the 2 mg which he originally put me on. It all has be very confused and a little depressed.

 

I suppose if I can't crossover I'll have to try this microtapering in one form or another.

 

If he won't support you and let you guide YOUR taper you may have to find someone who will. This is YOUR taper and you need to be in charge.

etown

[[en...]]

On that I agree. We've known him for over 20 years. I'll try to reason with him again at my next appointment and take it from there.

[[et...]]

On that I agree. We've known him for over 20 years. I'll try to reason with him again at my next appointment and take it from there.

 

They are your friend until YOU want something

etown

[[en...]]

Unfortunately that is so often the case. I've been a little (well okay) a lot disappointed by recent responses. Makes me wonder who I can trust. Also makes me leery of changing BUT if we have to interview possibilities we will.

 

I lost my sister to an overdose (per my introduction). Benzos were a huge factor. My anxiety went sky high and I did not want to increase my dose of this drug or stay on it when it wasn't effective but was encouraged to. I should have just said "no." I guess my thoughts were cloudy. I can't change it now.

 

Perhaps he'll be reasonable and consider a partial crossover. Our state has very strong laws about these drugs so I don't know if I can be prescribed two different benzos at the same time. All things to try to find out. I'm working on it. And thinking about making a cut to try to eliminate the .25 part of the morning dose in the meantime.

 

Thanks for your input. Sometimes I feel like my back is up against a wall. Hate that feeling.