My psychiatrist thinks I should be on benzos for life

[[...]]

Where are the CONCRETE lab results showing that someone "NEEDS" a certain drug?  If someone has high cholesterol, you can see it on a test.  How are these fake dr's getting away with prescribing serious drugs to people to basically "see" what they do.

 

Especially with benzos when the label says "consult your dr. about taking it longer than a few weeks" something like that.

 

The WORST part of the whole thing is that the dr's won't admit that the drug caused HUGE changes in a lot of neurotransmitters that yield debilitating withdrawal symptoms.  How do you go from a totally normal high functioning person to losing your job and not being able to carry out normal tasks ONLY after long term use of the benzo!?!?  We didn't go to the dr complaining of severe fatigue, dizziness, stomach pain, tight throat, among many others. 

 

 

[[Ri...]]

The sad part of it is that you don't realize the whole thing is a scam until it has done its damage on you.

[[eg...]]

The whole cholesterol thing is a scam too. 

[[Gu...]]

The sad thing about the scam though River Wolf is that when the damage has been done some of us may indeed need to be on benzo's for life. My Dr said he has had many patients attempt to withdraw from benzo's and manage to stay off them for a year or more but not do well. They end up having to reinstate, feel better immediately then stay on benzo's for life.

 

He spoke of patients who never felt right or comfortable again even years after stopping benzo's even long after the physical wd had ended. They eventually reinstated and were able to resume their lives.

 

That may be what the psychiatrist meant by thinking the OP needs to be on benzo's for life.

 

In my case at the moment I'd be inclined to agree with him.

[[gu...]]

I will be blunt and say they don't know what they're talking about. Or if they do they're totally corrupted by the pharma system but I would prefer not to believe this.

 

If you're taking as your signature says 1.5mg diazepam which is not a 'therapeutic' dose anyway the drug is not really having the effect that is necessary to 'control' social anxiety or any anxiety. So, you keep tapering and you'll be just fine.

As for the Celexa you'll need to taper off it as well but it's not as hard as benzos it's probably causing you more harm than good, but the diazepam is what I think you should get off first and foremost.

 

I'm on 1.5 diazepam as well and never thought a dose this small would have any effect on my anxiety and would be rabid with anxiety, but I'm not, I'm suffering w/d symmptoms. Having said that it's still a dose I wouldn't stop suddenly but the opposite slowly tapering.

Good luck

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What most doctors fail to see is that people can change. The see a symptom and they interpret this as a part of ourselves and as something that has always been there and will never go away. That is so untrue. It's not because we are anxious today and have been for years that this will be the case for the remainder of our lives. It might be that we just don't have the right coping tools right now, and going through benzo withdrawal does not make it any easier. You have been on benzos for more than 20 years. What would you have learnt during all those years in terms of coping with your anxiety ? Not much I suspect, since you were taking pills to take care of the problem. And even if the pills weren't really working anymore because of tolerance, you were still taking them, and popping a pill can truly relieve your anxiety or at least take the edge off as it is comforting to know you took your pill so you'll be safe. This is also a behaviour that must be unlearnt.

 

You can't know for sure if the damage done to your CNS is large enough to require life-long benzo treatment. And I don't think that happens very often, since almost everyone eventually gets better as long as they stay off the benzos. Withdrawals that last indefinitely are extremely rare and acute withdrawal symptoms never last forever, as far as I know. The fact that some people need to reinstate does not mean there was no other option. We don't know anything about them and who says they tried all other options first ? Unless you're in your 80s and can't afford to waste a few years on withdrawal, I would suggest to at least try to come off the benzos once and for all.

[[Sm...]]

I agree with you. The addiction psychiatrist is a professor at Columbia medical school, which is ivy league. He told me with a smile on his face that "he's seen this before & that I won't succeed in getting off." I called another pdoc today who is also a professor at Columbia & he never even heard of Dr. Ashton & doesn't use valium. I've basically given up on psychiatry.

 

agreed. Psychiatry is a psuedo-science

 

They have a whole set of paradigms that are unfalsifiable. That there makes it not a science. "You are anxious on benzos? Oh that is your underlying condition and you need more benzos" etc: a set of beliefs that are self fulfilling and can't be refuted = pseudoscience. I was thinking today about how treating the cortisol specifically has helped and how many times in the past I've said to my pdoc that I'd wake with a racing heart. She'd say something like "oh you felt you had a racing heart?" or "you felt anxious?". I've felt anxious and I've had a racing heart/cortisol surges and they aren't the same thing. Anxiety for me has to include anxious thinking. The point is in her little paradigm there is no such thing as heart racing: It is all anxiety and you all need some more drugs to sort that out.

 

I'm cutting my pdoc loose soon. My GP is enough and has said she'll support me with tapering.

 

I'd be getting another doctor too if I were you.

 

The only other thing I guess I'd add after saying psychiatry is a pseudo-science is that I do still believe some psychiatric drugs have their place. I started on citalopram many years ago for depression and social anxiety and it did help to change my awol chemical brain to the point where I was fine and functional. I don't have a problem with using that for life in small amounts. I do think I have a brain that isn't quite chemically optimal left to its own devices and so much like a diabetic needs insulin I need a little less reuptake of serotonin. I'm ok with that. I'll always work toward having the lowest amount possible and I think there are many avenues that can/should be explored too/first that aren't but still.

[[Gu...]]

LC,

      There was an interesting case study that I read recently that I sadly can't locate at present. I'll paraphrase it because its pertinent in this case.

 

A 45 year old female had been on clonazapm for 15 years at a high, stable dose when she decided to wean herself off the drug. Her psychiatrist, who wrote the case study, supported her in this enterprise. She was quite functional and successful on benzo's but quickly fell apart after the taper was completed. She was determined to weather the storm and live a benzo free life but after 18 months off drugs she was still plagued by anhedonia, depression and 'wasn't able to think clearly', long after the physical wd had subsided. She had never suffered from these conditions before. The psychiatrist tried many AD's to alleviate her depression and dysphoria but nothing worked. She tried total abstinence from all psych drugs for a further year to try to acheive some kind of homeostatis but her depression and apathy did not improve and by now she was a shell of the woman she had been on clonazapam. She was fading fast and her life was 'not worth living'. Finally, in desperation, her Dr resinstated her benzo after nearly 3 years and her symptoms immediately cleared up and she was able to 'think clearly' again and resume her life back to her old happy self.

 

This is obviously not the outcome we want but at what point do we accept, as this woman had to, that we need to be on benzo's because we've damaged our CNS irrevocably?

[[pr...]]

Everybody has a story that doesn't prove anything. Here is mine. When I told shrink I was going off klonopin he said "If you were diabetic you would take insulin for life." I said that's not the same thing. He said why not? I said because there is a simple blood test for diabetes but no way to diagnose emotional problems except by guessing and trial and error. He got mad. I don't care because I never went back. My family doc gave me klonoin to taper, although he thought I should stay on it also.

 

Everybody does not have a permanent condition because some people say they get better. Just because one person could not get off does not prove anything at all. We don't know the whole story. What would you expect a shrink to say? He must justify himself.

 

I refuse to buy into the idea that my CNS has permanent damage.

[[Gu...]]

I hope your right but there have been instances where people have had to reinstate years later because they never 'felt right' off benzo's. They were fine once they reinstated.

 

There seems to be a point of no return which differs from person to person. I stopped benzo's in 2010 without a problem and felt fine but stupidly went back on. This time it really feels like I've permanently damaged my brain and CNS.

[[mo...]]

I am a US veteran being treated at a VA hospital .  I have been DX PTSD , GAD, major depression , cannabis dependency and benzo dependency . There are hundreds of thousands of veterans on benzo's . Sadly many have resigned that they will be for life because of long term dependency . I know for a fact that benzo's make me worse not better in the long term . I know that I suffered for a year with post-benzo withdraw. I never new that there was such a thing till I came to this site. I reinstated because they put me back on benzo's PRN for insomnia . I am doing a slow taper with support from other BB members . I take no other psy medication except Propranolol. I had my first day yesterday without any symptoms at all . I walk/hike 3-4 miles everyday " habitation it works ". God willing I will not be on of the hundreds of thousands of veterans on benzo's for life . MM

[[...]]

Like I said, we don't know the whole story of that 45-year old woman who went back on the benzos. Her main problems seemed to be depression and brain fog. Those are not exclusive to benzo withdrawal, and they certainly occur in persons who never touched a benzo. Most likely the withdrawal made them worse but that doesn't mean the woman is free of other problems. Why did she take the Klonopin in the first place ? I didn't read anything about her having long-term physical withdrawal symptoms (burning nerves, muscle pain), sensory disturbances and relentless insomnia, which benzo withdrawal is famous for and which never occur with such intensity in any known disorder. I still have all those symptoms two years after my last dose and still I refuse to believe I'm permanently damaged. No way! I don't care if it takes me another 10 years to be my old self again but I'm not giving in.

 

The fact that the woman was fully functional and clear-minded on a high dosage of Klonopin is a mystery in itself if you ask me. It makes me wonder what she defines as "functional" and how much more functional she could be without the Klonopin.  Anyway, even if it were true that this woman cannot live without benzos, that would not be the general rule, and psychiatrists should not say otherwise. The normal outcome after withdrawal is recovery. It might take a long time to get well, though.

 

Believing in your recovery and in your body's ability to repair itself can make a huge difference. I'm almost certain the person you are referring to didn't have that belief or she wouldn't have reinstated no matter what. And I'm sure her psychiatrist pushed her to go back on the benzos as well, just like he put her on many antidepressants, which wasn't the smartest thing to do either while she was still recovering. Who says those other drugs didn't make her condition worse ?

[[Ma...]]

Well, I don't know, I've always felt anxious with crowds but I'm older, it was before social anxiety existed. I was just painfully shy. I overcame it, had to, work stuff, and though I frankly hate it going in and sometimes chose not to deal with it at all, I would never use a drug to deal with it, though back in the day when it was still I problem, I would periodically have a drink before going to a party, not much harm in that. I loathe psychiatrists, never met one who wasn't screwed up beyond imagining. As for how you are during withdrawal, well, that's no indication at all as to how you'll feel once you're over it. Withdrawal is real, for sure and for certain, my withdrawal doc knows that and said three years ago that it took a minimum of two years for the brain to heal, now his feelings run more along the lines of 5 years, particularly with older candidates. Withdrawal is his specialty, not prescribing. If you're down so low, and 1.5 mgs of Valium is almost off, I'd just do it and take the time drug free, that means all prescription drugs, to see who you are now. After all, none of us is who we were 20 years ago. I'd certainly want to give myself the chance of a lifetime to find out. Actually, it was 20 years for me too, and that's exactly what I'm doing.

m

[[ne...]]

In my opinion, no one should be on benzos for life. I am not a doctor, not even close. But, from my own research, it seems that they do more harm that good for the brain when used long term. I have only been on them for 9 months and started my taper 2 months ago. It hasn't been easy but I know I will get through it eventually. I don't have social phobia but I do have GAD and I would much rather be on the Effexor (the other drug I am currently taking) for life than the benzo.

 

You are very close to the end. I say go for it. See how it works for you. Therapy can really help. Find things you enjoy and immerse yourself in them. If you have to reinstate, you have to reinstate BUT at least you are trying. I know that you will be successful eventually. Have patience with yourself and good luck. You also might try to find a more understanding pdoc.

[[...]]

The sad thing about the scam though River Wolf is that when the damage has been done some of us may indeed need to be on benzo's for life. My Dr said he has had many patients attempt to withdraw from benzo's and manage to stay off them for a year or more but not do well. They end up having to reinstate, feel better immediately then stay on benzo's for life.

 

He spoke of patients who never felt right or comfortable again even years after stopping benzo's even long after the physical wd had ended. They eventually reinstated and were able to resume their lives.

 

That may be what the psychiatrist meant by thinking the OP needs to be on benzo's for life.

 

In my case at the moment I'd be inclined to agree with him.

 

THIS is further solidifying the physical addiction and adaptation or brain changes that the drug made. UNLESS, the person was EXACTLY debilitated and non functional BEFORE taking benzos.  So the end result is the person needs the drug to function ONLY BECAUSE they started taking it everyday.  If they didn't take it everyday, they wouldn't need it to feel normal.  Nobody warned  any of us that the benzo could make changes so severe that they could last years.

 

I'm definitely curious about trying a few beers one day to see if suddenly I feel "normal" again because it happened while on benzos but when I was in tolerance.  I had a bad panic attack while driving on new year's eve.  I was really tired and felt crappy as usual, then I had a vodka and energy drink, within an hour I felt amazing.  I haven't felt that good in almost 2 years!  It shows the physical part where the body is depleted of a necessary chemical and when it gets more of it, it feels normal again

[[ig...]]

Hi,

if I had a shrink who was patronizing and sarcastic, I'd work to get away from him/her eventually.

You are doing a good job of tapering--we all applaud you.

Maybe the shrink needs to do his homework on these drugs.

Turn a deaf ear on him when he's critical. Use what you can, and discard the rest.

All my best,

Iggy  :thumbsup:

 

[[Fl...]]

Doctors want you to stay addicted, if you don't there isn't much for them to do. Don't listen to them and keep appointments to a bare minimum. Isn't it interesting that before benzos came out people dealt with their anxiety without having to resort to drugs but now that we have them they are a 'must'. Total bullshit.

 

I don't think doctors want you addicted to anything, but there is a system in place that works in their favor so they everyone just kind of goes with the flow. I doubt that any of them realized the way all of this works when they decided to go to med school, and by the time you have more than a decade of your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars committed there isn't a whole lot of benefit or incentive to question the status quo.

[[Fl...]]

This is obviously not the outcome we want but at what point do we accept, as this woman had to, that we need to be on benzo's because we've damaged our CNS irrevocably?

 

I know it's hard but you just have to trust the information that is out there that says that benzo wd can indeed last a long time, but in most cases the damage is reversible.

[[Fl...]]

Everybody does not have a permanent condition because some people say they get better. Just because one person could not get off does not prove anything at all.

 

And just because one person wasn't healed at 3 years off doesn't prove anything either. That's why I advocate for FULL disclosure when it comes to benzos. People need to know that this can last a very long time for some people, but most continue to see improvement as the months go by. That woman could have been a couple of months away from seeing huge improvements, but instead she's back on a medication and all of that healing time is down the drain.

 

 

[[Fl...]]

The fact that the woman was fully functional and clear-minded on a high dosage of Klonopin is a mystery in itself if you ask me. It makes me wonder what she defines as "functional" and how much more functional she could be without the Klonopin.

 

Benzos have a way of making you believe that everything is ok while they slowly suck the life force out of you. I thought I was fine when I was on the drug. Now I realize that was all a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

[[Fl...]]

Withdrawal is real, for sure and for certain, my withdrawal doc knows that and said three years ago that it took a minimum of two years for the brain to heal, now his feelings run more along the lines of 5 years, particularly with older candidates.

 

It sounds like you have an amazing doctor, and I fully agree.....benzo wd can take a long time for some people. I know how discouraging it can be to still be dealing with some nasty symptoms at a couple of years off but people need to understand that this is all part of the process for some people, and that there is still hope. 3-5 years probably isn't common but it definitely isn't out of the question for healing to take that long.

[[gu...]]

I'd rather be somewhat functional on my own than 'functional' on drugs. It's a time bomb, there will be a time when the effects of the drug will catch up and engulf one's system and eventually shut it down.

To think that someone would need to be on benzos for life is just a wrong concept.

[[pr...]]

my mother is tapering from valium. just made her switch from xanax. she told me that she is now going to 'said' doctor of who also was giving me the hydrocone vicodin syrup. i told her 'no, keep going to him because he will supply you with the valium you need to taper--because he's dumb'.  well, he is...so she is continuing with this doctor who just recently told her that she will never be able to get off past 2mg valium--'no one ever has' he said to her.

 

the doctor who helped me taper had never seen one of his patients totally get off their benzo's... i was the only one.

 

either they still kinda need you on the drug so you're more controllable or entirely misinformed? i know my mother will get off the valium after seeing all that i've been through. she's tapering slowly and rightly.

 

 

just show your doctor what is possible.

 

[[gu...]]

this doctor who just recently told her that she will never be able to get off past 2mg valium--'no one ever has' he said to her.

 

the doctor who helped me taper had never seen one of his patients totally get off their benzo's... i was the only one.

 

either they still kinda need you on the drug so you're more controllable or entirely misinformed? i know my mother will get off the valium after seeing all that i've been through. she's tapering slowly and rightly.

 

 

just show your doctor what is possible.

 

My GP told me I wouldn't be able to lower my cholesterol only through diet which I did. She then said after a blood test she'd never seen anyone lower their cholesterol like that. "Well done" She told me. That's it, she didn't take any notes or anything so I guess she didn't take anything on board after that to recommend other people.

Thankfully my new GP thinks not only it's possible to get off benzos but also desirable.

 

[[...]]

FloridaGuy is right... We do see a lot of people around the 18-24 month mark get more functional if they weren't before.  I don't think there are many at 24+ months that don't feel "ok".  The other problem with the drug system is that we see many members here try different drugs while in benzo withdrawal and they are still not functional.  I don't think I saw one post where someone found the magic cure drug that instantly made them feel "normal" and able to do things they couldn't months prior.