Are there any other Atheists here?

[[co...]]

Actually, Buddhism comes close, but then that religion doesn't really have a 'god'.

 

Sadly, I am precluded by becoming president for not been a US Citizen and been an atheist, the latter a disgrace.

But then, you need a government first, before you think about the next president.

 

coots

[[Mo...]]

Actually, Buddhism comes close, but then that religion doesn't really have a 'god'.

 

Sadly, I am precluded by becoming president for not been a US Citizen and been an atheist, the latter a disgrace.

But then, you need a government first, before you think about the next president.

 

coots

 

buddhism would appeal to me as well. i think it more like a wordly wisdom.....

like ''modus vivendi''.

[[pr...]]

...it feels like Im talking with Gene Robinson

 

I don't believe in Gene Robinson.

[[Be...]]

Actually, Buddhism comes close, but then that religion doesn't really have a 'god'.

 

Sadly, I am precluded by becoming president for not been a US Citizen and been an atheist, the latter a disgrace.

But then, you need a government first, before you think about the next president.

 

coots

 

No no no, you can run for President without being a US citizen, Obama changed the laws about that, and the President can also do things now without the governments approval too so, we don't really need the "government" per say.....I think you do have to be a Muslim by law now though, but since it's just the presidency you can always lie.

(soooooo sarcastic)

[[fr...]]

I believe there is a God but I don't understand Him/Her and don't agree with the way the world is 'run'. I simply can not worship let alone believe in God the way He is portrayed in the Bible. It makes zero sense to me that a so-called super loving, understanding God would send anyone to Hell for not being the 'right' religion or having the 'right' beliefs. God simply can not be exclusionary because God encompasses all things and all people. I am very tired of people who think they are 'saved' or better than someone else because of their beliefs. I looked into faith healing and found it to be a sham (I was hoping it was true), I also looked into accounts of Near Death Experiences of 'Heaven' and found that people of all faiths or no faith have them. I wish there was a God who loved me and supported me but my experience has been the opposite. I have seen that very religious people do not have any better earthly lives than the rest of us so I don't see the point in having a dogmatic faith. I have noted that faith and hope can help us get through all kinds of crap but I don't know what to have faith or hope in.

[[pr...]]

I believe there is a God but I don't understand Him/Her and don't agree with the way the world is 'run'. I simply can not worship let alone believe in God the way He is portrayed in the Bible. It makes zero sense to me that a so-called super loving, understanding God would send anyone to Hell for not being the 'right' religion or having the 'right' beliefs. God simply can not be exclusionary because God encompasses all things and all people. I am very tired of people who think they are 'saved' or better than someone else because of their beliefs. I looked into faith healing and found it to be a sham (I was hoping it was true), I also looked into accounts of Near Death Experiences of 'Heaven' and found that people of all faiths or no faith have them. I wish there was a God who loved me and supported me but my experience has been the opposite. I have seen that very religious people do not have any better earthly lives than the rest of us so I don't see the point in having a dogmatic faith. I have noted that faith and hope can help us get through all kinds of crap but I don't know what to have faith or hope in.

 

Theodicy is certainly a major problem for all god-centered religions. If god is benevolent then why did he create evil, pain, and suffering? The explanation that he had a purpose we cannot understand doesn't cut it with me.

 

It is possible that faith makes it easier for people to cope with life. Religion does seem to be a universal force throughout recorded history. It is also very possible that man created god (for this reason) rather than the other way around.

 

Like you, I believe the other guys faith stops where my nose starts. God save me from those who want to save me (Irony intentional).

 

Throughout history religion has done as least as much harm as good. I'm very tolerant of all religions as long as they stay out of my backyard and don't try to kill me in order to save me. Along with Sam Harris, I believe religious indoctrination of children borders on child abuse.

 

I wish I had the kind of faith that could comfort me. I don't deny anybody else that faith if it works for them. They are free to pity me as long as they don't try to save me.

 

Nobody ever considers the possibility that there is a god who is malevolent rather than benevolent. That is a possibility, but Occam's Razor suggests that the human condition is probably the result of random evolutionary processes.

[[Be...]]

I LOVE SAM HARRIS

[[pr...]]

I LOVE SAM HARRIS

 

I think Sam may be a closet Buddhist.

[[...]]

Buddhism isn't what westerners make of it. It's a very difficult lifestyle and in my opinion - like all other religions - against everything human. It's unnatural for people not to attach to other people and it's exactly this what buddhists have to do to receive enlightment. We don't really need religion to be peaceful. Every claim of a supernatural being eventually becomes a means of controlling the masses by clergy. The 'funny' thing is that out of the three main religions christianty is the only one that in it's purest form - following the teachings of Christ - is anti-church and anti-clergy, it is secular and about a personal relationship with God. That's my biggest problem with christianity like it is now, an institute that removed itself from the teachings of Christ.

 

Another funny thing is that atheists in general are closer to the teachings of Christ than christians. Christians who judge homosexuals and promiscious women should read the gospels and will learn that Jesus wouldn't do that. But strangely enough the latest attempts to hold a Gay Pride Parade in Europe (in Belgrade, Serbia) was met by strong opposition from the Orthodox Church. The patriarch told us that gays attack family life and christianity and someone like him - head of the church! - KNOWS it's not to be found in the gospels.

 

 

[[pa...]]

I BillyF and all bbs,

 

When I first saw your thread BillyF,, I thought, OMG, this thread might become a stomping ground with lots of arrogant replies, and thank goodness it hasn't.  As "PJ" said, he has stayed away from politics and religion, as we all know, ones can become too extreme in their replies with their stand on these issues, and this thread didn't become that way!!  What a relief.  The most important that this thread has shown, is no attack to each other, in one to another by what they felt or posted.

 

So I begin with my reply.  I was raised in the Catholic faith, that faith in my family for generations.  Having a huge extended family, and spending total time with them all, I was provided a wonderful opportunity from a second cousin who was eight years older then myself, I was only seven in age.  She was a science nut totally, like her uncle, who was a scientist and she had a telescope.  I remember viewing on a rare clear night in SF, the Moon and stars... I was aghast... and I was transformed...  I became a sky watcher without a telescope, though I was hooked. So my sky watching continued with amazement, as well as my learning of all.  My education in later years transformed this amazement tenfold, as well as the opportunity in viewing of it all beyond the backyard telescopes.  I had the opportunity to view with some of the most powerful ones on the west coast in California, and again, took me beyond amazement.

 

No, I'm not an Atheists....  Though, I don't believe in the doctrine or dogma of established religions..  I began questioning all of it at a young age a few years after my first venture of viewing through that telescope. Some many years after, I was given a gift of being introduced to "metaphysical literature" from a dear friend I was employed with, and another avenue was opened up to me.  Another dimension like the skies I connected with.  From that, I was guided to the "Course of Miracles".  If you haven't, try to view the dvd "The Story of A Course In Miracles".  You will understand how this came forth, two Atheists, highly respected psychologists, both professors at Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons.

 

I agree that Christianity, all religion's have created havoc on the human race, yes they have.  History has shown that, and is still showing that.  Have I questioned, if there was truly a "God", why would he/she allow the horror that has occurred through the generations.  Why would a "loving" Father allow that...  This would make anyone question if there is a "Supreme Being" a "God" as all religions have spoken about.. 

 

Though, I hold onto what I have viewed through that telescope at age seven and beyond.  The learning of it all through education and experience further then that backyard telescope.  The beauty, the perfection.... it taught me to think beyond the horizontal, more vertical... the total perfection of it all.

 

There is something way more then we can even fathom with our limited "ego" abilities, until we venture a bit out from that "ego" and began thinking vertically.  We have a beautiful created planet we live on, with wonder galore that abounds us.... All of us just get caught up on the whole horizontal plane and lose touch with it...  We have to learn to expand our minds beyond the it.

 

So.... I do believe from my first adventure at age seven, there is something so much more wonder beyond.... I don't know if it's called Heaven, sure hope it is.  I don't know if "God" exists, I sure hope he/she does... Though I do know deep within myself, having the opportunity in viewing what I have, beyond the "backyard telescope"..... It's perfect out there and truly amazing.  Something or someone has given us all a  gift beyond what we even know or understand.... and that is waiting for all of us to explore beyond being on this planet.  Personally... I look forward to first hand doing the exploring of the Universe and the wonder of it all when I step out of this body.... 

 

So...I'm a spiritual being having a human experience here, being in this body, and I believe all of us knew each other on the other side, where ever that is, and we cross each others paths here,  to once again meet up and help each other and be with each other.  That can be in many different ways.

 

Hugs to you all,

 

Pattylu 

 

Thank you for this Pattylu. I love your sense of wonder, how the Universe WOWs you!

It brings to mind something Father Thomas Berry wrote: "The Universe is a communion of subjects, not a collection of objects."

 

I've heard of A Course In Miracles, a friend of mine said it changed his life. I've seen it transform him from a lost and unhappy man to one who radiates that same sense of wonder I see in your writing!

 

I read Conversations With God by Neale Donald Walsch, that was a good one too.

 

Anyway many thanks for sharing.

 

Hugs,

Chinook 

 

Hi Chinook,

 

Just getting caught up with previous posts and replies.  Thank you for your reply.  Yes, the Universe does WOW me as you could see by what I wrote...  It truly is magnificent... and so very peaceful.. 

 

I loved what you quoted Father Thomas Berry says, "The Universe is a "communion of subjects, not a collection of objects".  He has a true insight and worded exactly... 

 

I'm so happy your friend found "The Course of Miracles", his life was transformed, and you have seen this first hand.  The "Course" is a beautiful venture that unfolds you to a different level.. with total peace within and a different perspective of life.

 

I also read "Conversations with God"....  wonderful!  Thank You again.

 

Pattylu

[[pa...]]

Hi pattylu,  That was beautiful  :smitten:

 

Thank you Birdman... :smitten:

[[pr...]]

No no no, you can run for President without being a US citizen, Obama changed the laws about that, and the President can also do things now without the governments approval too so, we don't really need the "government" per say

 

Now for the facts, if that is allowed.  The requirement for US citizenship is in the US Constitution. President Obama does not have the power to change the US Constitution. The procedure for doing so is long and involved. That is why the Constitution is rarely changed,

 

Why would you say something like this? 

 

[[Be...]]

seriously...

[[pr...]]

seriously...

 

OK, I'll guess. You wanted to slander the president because you disagree with him on political issues.

[[Be...]]

Actually I was being sarcastic about our whole system, not really the prez in particular..

[[Bi...]]

Mixing Science and God

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbTMT6SCn3Y

[[Be...]]

I'm more of an "I don't know for sure" gal.  I believe in a spiritual realm and higher power, but I don't believe it's a silver-haired old man in the sky.  I think of Jesus, Buddha and all the others as enlightened leaders rather than prophets or saviors.  I don't think consciousness stops at death or begins at birth but don't necessarily buy into heaven/hell/paradise/purgatory. 

 

Basically, I think organized religion is unnecessary.  We come into the world alone and will leave it alone.  I don't need a chorus of "amens" to affirm my beliefs.  (But respect others who do!)

[[un...]]

What I keep coming back to is Aquinas's question of "first cause," or, the cosmological argument. Simply put, if it all started with the "Big Bang," where did all the stuff come from that went Bang?

[[On...]]

What I keep coming back to is Aquinas's question of "first cause," or, the cosmological argument. Simply put, if it all started with the "Big Bang," where did all the stuff come from that went Bang?

 

 

I think its outside of our comprehension how that might work. Its too big a question

[[un...]]

Thank you, OneDay--my point exactly. In the strictest sense, I think we're all Agnostics.

[[ar...]]

The cosmological argument, ontological argument though valid, & the argument from design are all incoherent.

[[un...]]

OK, you explain it--where did the first "stuff" of the Universe come from?

[[un...]]

Granted, Aquinas is typically Jesuit . . .

[[ar...]]

As Hume noted even though causality applies to the known world it may not apply to the universe at large. I am not a Catholic though know that Aquinas arguments may be subtle. The argument also gets into an infinite regress of Gods .

 

Hume thought the" argument from design' was more convincing than the cosmological argument, but still only a remote possibility, as anthropocentric.

[[On...]]

OK, you explain it--where did the first "stuff" of the Universe come from?

 

 

 

Seems like a waste of time. Id rather be a part of the modern frontier of science and learn and grow and move forward as a species. I guess to contribue something new and game changing.

 

 

But I'm just a benzo sickened person, all I can do is sit here.