Are there any other Atheists here?

[[Mo...]]

[[Ch...]]

I'm not an atheist here, so I feel a little guilty responding, but thought maybe others would want to ponder these thoughts.  I'm a Christian but have struggled with my faith -- have always been one of those "doubting Thomas'" who desires a bit of evidence along the way.  I think it's important to know why we believe what we believe and the responses to this thread certainly show how analytical and intelligent we are as well as our desire to know what's truth. I've often wondered, how do I know that the Bible is the truth -- why not the Qur'an or why not the teachings of Buddhism?  I think the single most credible proof that the Bible is really God's Word to mankind is prophecy.  27% (8,352 versus) of the entire Bible contains prophetic material, some of which has already come true and some which remains to be fulfilled.  No other faith, no other religion can claim the fulfillment of prophecy as evidence of its deity.  To me that is undeniable.

 

For anyone interested, there is a book, "The Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel.  Strobel was a journalist working for the Chicago Tribune who questioned his beliefs (a former atheist) when his wife committed her life to Jesus Christ.  It is his personal investigation of the evidence for Jesus and how that evidence lead him to the Lord.

 

There are other reasons (although more subtle) as to why I believe Jesus is Lord. The Bible remains to be the most read book in the World even though there have been many throughout the centuries that have tried to destroy it.  Also, it seems to me that there is more animosity towards Christianity today than any other religion. Why is it today that Hollywood (and not just Hollywood) can poke fun at Christianity and the Bible and take Jesus' name in vain -- if one would behave that way towards any other Faith, it would not be acceptable. Persecution is talked about in the Bible (i.e. Matthew 5:10)and I believe that this attitude towards Christ is a part of the persecution that the Bible talks of.

 

Hope I did not offend anyone here... not at all my intention.  I just found this thread interesting and wanted to share my thoughts 

 

 

 

 

[[Bi...]]

Most atheists are actually more christian than christians. It's not a paradox, being christian means that you're not trying to judge others and a lot of christians have problems with this. The Old Testament doesn't have anything to do with Jesus Christ, so why people (atheists and christians alike) keep saying that christianity has got anything to do with hating gay people or stoning people to death is beyond me.

 

As for me, I'm not really christian, I just identify with it. Sometimes culture and religion go hand in hand.

 

You're completely right! The OT was written before Christ, therefore the only way to rid sin was to put people to death, such as gays, liars, adulterers, sorcerers, etc. It speaks of all this in Leviticus. I may be atheist, but I have read the bible, and understand what it's saying.

 

I really don't think the laws in the OT was of god, but if they were... they were very brutal and inhumane laws, which I don't want to believe in an asshole god that wants to see people stoned.

 

The Mideast still stones people. Kill them without any remorse, so they can enter a heaven with how many virgins? LOL!

 

Religion is cruelty, inhumanity, deception and illusions.

 

Why I don't buy it.

[[Wi...]]

I think that the statement "I think the single most credible proof that the Bible is really God's Word to mankind is prophecy.  27% (8,352 versus) of the entire Bible contains prophetic material, some of which has already come true and some which remains to be fulfilled.  No other faith, no other religion can claim the fulfillment of prophecy as evidence of its deity.  To me that is undeniable." as an offer of credible proof is highly subjective, un-provable making it an unscientific conclusion.

 

Also, for information purposes, the term, taking the name in vain actually means something different than people assume.  It actually does not refer to cussing but instead means not to use the "lords name" for personal benefit (in other words, vanity).  So all of those so called "religious people" that profit from their religion are in fact using the "lord's" name in vain.

 

And as far as people behaving towards other religions better than Christianity, you only have to look a little into history to see the atrocities on pretty much every other religion.  I would suggest that "being poked fun of" pales in comparison to the atrocities against most other religions including the holocaust, atrocities against Buddhists in Tibet, the Crusades, the Inquisition etc. 

 

It's hard to have empathy for the "victimization of Christianity" considering that in this country they are by far the majority, hold more than sufficient political power and to my knowledge the worst atrocity against them at this time is the fabled "war on Christmas".

 

If you find comfort in your belief, then that should be sufficient.

 

WWWI

[[Da...]]

I think 'god' is like infinity, best left alone.

[[Di...]]

I think the single most credible proof that the Bible is really God's Word to mankind is prophecy.  27% (8,352 versus) of the entire Bible contains prophetic material, some of which has already come true and some which remains to be fulfilled.  No other faith, no other religion can claim the fulfillment of prophecy as evidence of its deity.  To me that is undeniable.

 

To me, saying that the bible contains prophetic material is a little like saying Nostradamus is a proven prophesier. The prophesies of both are only found by “retrofitting”, which means that an event is only seen in hindsight as matching something that has been previously predicted, and usually a great deal of word games and assumptions have to be made to find an event to match to these supposed prophesies.

 

Also, it seems to me that there is more animosity towards Christianity today than any other religion.

 

You aren't really serious about that claim are you - especially after 9/11 and various other terrorist plots and attacks?

 

Some of the worst violence in history has been carried out in the name religion, christianity included. This is why I will have nothing to do with any kind of religion, because I believe that I am better able to live life as a good person without the dogma that is attached to it.

 

[[Bi...]]

I think 'god' is like infinity, best left alone.

 

Why leave him alone, if he exists?

 

Some of us don't believe everything we hear or read. Asking a person to believe in something with all this power is allot to ask, especially when he don't do anything to help. Starvation, disease, murders, etc...

 

I don't think questioning is a bad idea. You must be a very gullible person.

[[Bi...]]

I think the single most credible proof that the Bible is really God's Word to mankind is prophecy.  27% (8,352 versus) of the entire Bible contains prophetic material, some of which has already come true and some which remains to be fulfilled.  No other faith, no other religion can claim the fulfillment of prophecy as evidence of its deity.  To me that is undeniable.

 

To me, saying that the bible contains prophetic material is a little like saying Nostradamus is a proven prophesier. The prophesies of both are only found by “retrofitting”, which means that an event is only seen in hindsight as matching something that has been previously predicted, and usually a great deal of word games and assumptions have to be made to find an event to match to these supposed prophesies.

 

Also, it seems to me that there is more animosity towards Christianity today than any other religion.

 

You aren't really serious about that claim are you - especially after 9/11 and various other terrorist plots and attacks?

 

Some of the worst violence in history has been carried out in the name religion, christianity included. This is why I will have nothing to do with any kind of religion, because I believe that I am better able to live life as a good person without the dogma that is attached to it.

 

To me, saying that the bible contains prophetic material is a little like saying Nostradamus is a proven prophesier. The prophesies of both are only found by “retrofitting”, which means that an event is only seen in hindsight as matching something that has been previously predicted, and usually a great deal of word games and assumptions have to be made to find an event to match to these supposed prophesies.

 

This is very true. Prediction is nothing more than perceptions of time, and making things coordinate with whatever riddle.

[[Ch...]]

I think 'god' is like infinity, best left alone.

 

Why leave him alone, if he exists?

 

Some of us don't believe everything we hear or read. Asking a person to believe in something with all this power is allot to ask, especially when he don't do anything to help. Starvation, disease, murders, etc...

 

I don't think questioning is a bad idea. You must be a very gullible person.

 

Hey Billy,

 

The greatest gift God gave us is freedom of choice. It's man, not God, who chooses to do those things.

 

All that aside ... have you read any of Richard Dawkins' books?  I started reading 'The God Delusion' during my last year on benzos and struggled with it because it seemed kind of deep to me, lol. So I put it aside and picked it up again when I was tapering but put it down because even though he gives a compelling argument in favour of atheism, I both want and need to believe in God if that makes any sense.

 

I think you might really enjoy his books though.

 

Hope you're keeping well and out of mischief?

Chinook

 

 

 

 

[[co...]]

101% atheist, much more common here in the UK, ironically with a state church. Though there are now far more atheists in the US than is recognised, and they are slowly coming out of the closet, which is good to see.

 

I prayed and prayed like crazy during my darkest days to a god that was never there.

 

Take heed of Matthew 6, and keep your religion private.

 

I respect religious folks, but not religion.

[[Te...]]

I've been an atheist since I was 12 

 

Something good happens? God did it. Something bad happens? Pray to God and he'll fix it. SMH

 

Really though I have no issue with believers, just don't shove it in my face. People should be able to believe whatever they like as long as it's not negatively effecting others.

 

 

[[Co...]]

^ That's pretty well said, Terraform19.  I agree 100%.  There was one believer who responded "you guys are crazy" -- I think we should respect the beliefs of others and move along without saying such things.

[[pa...]]

I BillyF and all bbs,

 

When I first saw your thread BillyF,, I thought, OMG, this thread might become a stomping ground with lots of arrogant replies, and thank goodness it hasn't.  As "PJ" said, he has stayed away from politics and religion, as we all know, ones can become too extreme in their replies with their stand on these issues, and this thread didn't become that way!!  What a relief.  The most important that this thread has shown, is no attack to each other, in one to another by what they felt or posted.

 

So I begin with my reply.  I was raised in the Catholic faith, that faith in my family for generations.  Having a huge extended family, and spending total time with them all, I was provided a wonderful opportunity from a second cousin who was eight years older then myself, I was only seven in age.  She was a science nut totally, like her uncle, who was a scientist and she had a telescope.  I remember viewing on a rare clear night in SF, the Moon and stars... I was aghast... and I was transformed...  I became a sky watcher without a telescope, though I was hooked. So my sky watching continued with amazement, as well as my learning of all.  My education in later years transformed this amazement tenfold, as well as the opportunity in viewing of it all beyond the backyard telescopes.  I had the opportunity to view with some of the most powerful ones on the west coast in California, and again, took me beyond amazement.

 

No, I'm not an Atheists....  Though, I don't believe in the doctrine or dogma of established religions..  I began questioning all of it at a young age a few years after my first venture of viewing through that telescope. Some many years after, I was given a gift of being introduced to "metaphysical literature" from a dear friend I was employed with, and another avenue was opened up to me.  Another dimension like the skies I connected with.  From that, I was guided to the "Course of Miracles".  If you haven't, try to view the dvd "The Story of A Course In Miracles".  You will understand how this came forth, two Atheists, highly respected psychologists, both professors at Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons.

 

I agree that Christianity, all religion's have created havoc on the human race, yes they have.  History has shown that, and is still showing that.  Have I questioned, if there was truly a "God", why would he/she allow the horror that has occurred through the generations.  Why would a "loving" Father allow that...  This would make anyone question if there is a "Supreme Being" a "God" as all religions have spoken about.. 

 

Though, I hold onto what I have viewed through that telescope at age seven and beyond.  The learning of it all through education and experience further then that backyard telescope.  The beauty, the perfection.... it taught me to think beyond the horizontal, more vertical... the total perfection of it all.

 

There is something way more then we can even fathom with our limited "ego" abilities, until we venture a bit out from that "ego" and began thinking vertically.  We have a beautiful created planet we live on, with wonder galore that abounds us.... All of us just get caught up on the whole horizontal plane and lose touch with it...  We have to learn to expand our minds beyond the it.

 

So.... I do believe from my first adventure at age seven, there is something so much more wonder beyond.... I don't know if it's called Heaven, sure hope it is.  I don't know if "God" exists, I sure hope he/she does... Though I do know deep within myself, having the opportunity in viewing what I have, beyond the "backyard telescope"..... It's perfect out there and truly amazing.  Something or someone has given us all a  gift beyond what we even know or understand.... and that is waiting for all of us to explore beyond being on this planet.  Personally... I look forward to first hand doing the exploring of the Universe and the wonder of it all when I step out of this body.... 

 

So...I'm a spiritual being having a human experience here, being in this body, and I believe all of us knew each other on the other side, where ever that is, and we cross each others paths here,  to once again meet up and help each other and be with each other.  That can be in many different ways.

 

Hugs to you all,

 

Pattylu   

[[Bi...]]

Hi pattylu,  That was beautiful  :smitten:

[[On...]]

I just think I'm a human being bound by an inherently flawed way.

 

Societies are created and change, and philosophies and ways to explain life and the world are created. Those also change over time. And some cease and are no longer 'in use' (Except for perhaps small modern day cults?)

 

I think it is the mind and our emotions attached to ideologies that create realities. We can make beautiful views to suit us and make life worth living, or we can rot in skewed views born of pain and fear that hurt us.  I won't discount the validity of either reality because they are both real views, but one is ideal and I don't have to say why. "We are meant for homeostasis."

 

I one day plan to see a beautiful world-view of my own.

 

I think in the end it is the nature of humanity that leads to ruin. Greed, lust for power, racism, prejudice seems an inevitability to our kind. Something about not being able to view or understand one another as the same creature. Dividing one another into categories. And there is no one to blame. Just circumstance.. no matter how much I may want someone to take responsibility for their actions.

 

I think most problems in the world are borne of hurt which leads to fear and hate and grows from there. If anyone can remember Yodas quote well then you know what I'm trying to get at I think.

Put ignorance and complacency in there somewhere. Can't think.

 

It may just be our role. Life feeds on life. This seems to be a universal truth. We may just be here to eat the planet, or it will do away with us or we will do away with ourselves, or bacteria will or a combination. All life competes for dominion over eden.

 

 

What am I doing here? I guess I'm just riding this runaway train out til the end trying to find the beautiful part of living. Because there is beauty here I've seen it and I really want to make it there.

 

 

 

I hope I'm making sense, and I hope nobody thinks any less of me after typing my thoughts here on the world.

 

See, there was a point in my life I had a mind. And here it is semi-back, but for a limited time I suspect.

I look forward to getting all my faculties back one day.

 

This is a very good post! Thank you for this.

 

Thanks Billy

[[On...]]

I just think I'm a human being bound by an inherently flawed way.

 

Societies are created and change, and philosophies and ways to explain life and the world are created. Those also change over time. And some cease and are no longer 'in use' (Except for perhaps small modern day cults?)

 

I think it is the mind and our emotions attached to ideologies that create realities. We can make beautiful views to suit us and make life worth living, or we can rot in skewed views born of pain and fear that hurt us.  I won't discount the validity of either reality because they are both real views, but one is ideal and I don't have to say why. "We are meant for homeostasis."

 

I one day plan to see a beautiful world-view of my own.

 

I think in the end it is the nature of humanity that leads to ruin. Greed, lust for power, racism, prejudice seems an inevitability to our kind. Something about not being able to view or understand one another as the same creature. Dividing one another into categories. And there is no one to blame. Just circumstance.. no matter how much I may want someone to take responsibility for their actions.

 

I think most problems in the world are borne of hurt which leads to fear and hate and grows from there. If anyone can remember Yodas quote well then you know what I'm trying to get at I think.

Put ignorance and complacency in there somewhere. Can't think.

 

It may just be our role. Life feeds on life. This seems to be a universal truth. We may just be here to eat the planet, or it will do away with us or we will do away with ourselves, or bacteria will or a combination. All life competes for dominion over eden.

 

 

What am I doing here? I guess I'm just riding this runaway train out til the end trying to find the beautiful part of living. Because there is beauty here I've seen it and I really want to make it there.

 

 

 

I hope I'm making sense, and I hope nobody thinks any less of me after typing my thoughts here on the world.

 

See, there was a point in my life I had a mind. And here it is semi-back, but for a limited time I suspect.

I look forward to getting all my faculties back one day.

 

Perfect  :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

 

 

Thank you bird, glad you liked it wish I had more to say but my mind is kind of blah today

[[Re...]]

I'm just curious. I'm not on here too much, but I'm on... I wonder if there's any other atheists?

 

Hopefully, I'm not the only one.

 

I refuse to read a book that promotes slaughter, rape, abuse, stoning people, whipping and nonsensical suffering when I do suffer with my GI problems. It just adds fire to fire.

 

I don't believe in deities... buddha, allah, thor, zeus, or any other "sky daddy".

 

Sometimes it's good to know if any others are out there like you.

 

HI Billy

Another Billy here,How u doing.I'm an atheist too.I'm also completely anti-religion.I despise it(no offense meant to any believers here though).I think religion causes most wars and is the biggest divider mankind has,trumping even race and nationalism by a very long way...

                                                                                                    Anyway all that's a discussion for another forum Im sure.The only faith I follow at the moment is the same one most people on this site follow...Faith in myself to get through this wicked withdrawal and not to take benzos ever again.That faith's got me through 6 months of pain without any help from a sugar-daddy in the clouds so i'll keep going that way because it works for me thanks......So Keep the Faith(your own I mean) and good luck....RorB. 

[[On...]]

Let's not make this a thread that will cause division among us. We're all in this battle against benzos together. Maybe there is a time and a place for debate, but I don't think its here.

[[Bi...]]

Let's not make this a thread that will cause division among us. We're all in this battle against benzos together. Maybe there is a time and a place for debate, but I don't think its here.

 

I have a big problem with nervous energy and distraction helps.  Anything that keeps your mind off cuts is useful.  That's why Colin set this area aside for  'OFF TOPIC' and this is off topic for sure.  'OFF TOPIC' can be an edgy topic zone not for the meek and very challenging at times.  That's helpful and therapeutic for me as I  try and compose my thoughts with all this cog fog in my brain. 

 

In a way I really wish I could believe, in would make life so much easier and less scary.

[[On...]]

I can understand that

[[Ch...]]

I BillyF and all bbs,

 

When I first saw your thread BillyF,, I thought, OMG, this thread might become a stomping ground with lots of arrogant replies, and thank goodness it hasn't.  As "PJ" said, he has stayed away from politics and religion, as we all know, ones can become too extreme in their replies with their stand on these issues, and this thread didn't become that way!!  What a relief.  The most important that this thread has shown, is no attack to each other, in one to another by what they felt or posted.

 

So I begin with my reply.  I was raised in the Catholic faith, that faith in my family for generations.  Having a huge extended family, and spending total time with them all, I was provided a wonderful opportunity from a second cousin who was eight years older then myself, I was only seven in age.  She was a science nut totally, like her uncle, who was a scientist and she had a telescope.  I remember viewing on a rare clear night in SF, the Moon and stars... I was aghast... and I was transformed...  I became a sky watcher without a telescope, though I was hooked. So my sky watching continued with amazement, as well as my learning of all.  My education in later years transformed this amazement tenfold, as well as the opportunity in viewing of it all beyond the backyard telescopes.  I had the opportunity to view with some of the most powerful ones on the west coast in California, and again, took me beyond amazement.

 

No, I'm not an Atheists....  Though, I don't believe in the doctrine or dogma of established religions..  I began questioning all of it at a young age a few years after my first venture of viewing through that telescope. Some many years after, I was given a gift of being introduced to "metaphysical literature" from a dear friend I was employed with, and another avenue was opened up to me.  Another dimension like the skies I connected with.  From that, I was guided to the "Course of Miracles".  If you haven't, try to view the dvd "The Story of A Course In Miracles".  You will understand how this came forth, two Atheists, highly respected psychologists, both professors at Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons.

 

I agree that Christianity, all religion's have created havoc on the human race, yes they have.  History has shown that, and is still showing that.  Have I questioned, if there was truly a "God", why would he/she allow the horror that has occurred through the generations.  Why would a "loving" Father allow that...  This would make anyone question if there is a "Supreme Being" a "God" as all religions have spoken about.. 

 

Though, I hold onto what I have viewed through that telescope at age seven and beyond.  The learning of it all through education and experience further then that backyard telescope.  The beauty, the perfection.... it taught me to think beyond the horizontal, more vertical... the total perfection of it all.

 

There is something way more then we can even fathom with our limited "ego" abilities, until we venture a bit out from that "ego" and began thinking vertically.  We have a beautiful created planet we live on, with wonder galore that abounds us.... All of us just get caught up on the whole horizontal plane and lose touch with it...  We have to learn to expand our minds beyond the it.

 

So.... I do believe from my first adventure at age seven, there is something so much more wonder beyond.... I don't know if it's called Heaven, sure hope it is.  I don't know if "God" exists, I sure hope he/she does... Though I do know deep within myself, having the opportunity in viewing what I have, beyond the "backyard telescope"..... It's perfect out there and truly amazing.  Something or someone has given us all a  gift beyond what we even know or understand.... and that is waiting for all of us to explore beyond being on this planet.  Personally... I look forward to first hand doing the exploring of the Universe and the wonder of it all when I step out of this body.... 

 

So...I'm a spiritual being having a human experience here, being in this body, and I believe all of us knew each other on the other side, where ever that is, and we cross each others paths here,  to once again meet up and help each other and be with each other.  That can be in many different ways.

 

Hugs to you all,

 

Pattylu 

 

Thank you for this Pattylu. I love your sense of wonder, how the Universe WOWs you!

It brings to mind something Father Thomas Berry wrote: "The Universe is a communion of subjects, not a collection of objects."

 

I've heard of A Course In Miracles, a friend of mine said it changed his life. I've seen it transform him from a lost and unhappy man to one who radiates that same sense of wonder I see in your writing!

 

I read Conversations With God by Neale Donald Walsch, that was a good one too.

 

Anyway many thanks for sharing.

 

Hugs,

Chinook 

 

[Guest [Ob...]]

So I guess that old saying is wrong...the one that says that "there are no atheists in the foxholes." Then again, this isn't exactly a foxhole with bullets flying and mortars exploding all around, so maybe the old saying possibly still may be true. Who knows?

[Guest [Ob...]]

You're in good company - Dr. Stephen Hawking is of the same beliefs.

[[Be...]]

I just got to the point where I decided it was ok to just say "I don't know".....because I don't. I was bottle-fed christianity, and its very hard to get out from under all that condemnation. (I'm gay)

I left christianity, because it doesn't have a place for gays (I wont argue this point with anyone, because Ive read the bible several times myself, and if its true, Im smart enough to know that I probably wont get away with twisting it around to accomodate me and my lifestyle... it says Im going to hell.) also, I had a lot of doubts period.  I believe humanity can work just fine alone, that's why we have laws and such.  I also believe that man created all the religions and such because man is scared to die, or suffer at all for that matter, and needs to know he can pray to a god that will make everything alright, one way or another, and give him ever lasting life...............

personally, its ok with me if death is the very end of my existence and I turn to dirt (actually I would prefer a organic burial so I can do just that) How would I know any different, Im dead!  I look at the "theres never a athiest in a foxhole" like this, when the chips are down and your butt is going down, most anyone would pull at straws and say "HELP GOD! IF YOURE THERE!"....that doesn't make religion true, it just means a desperate person is willing to try anything............

If Gods real, I wish he would make himself real to me, and give me the truth himself, because the way I know people, I surely cannot trust them, especially about which life saving fairy tale is true.

Mark Twain quotes "faith is believing in something you know just ain't so"......

I wish it was true, that you could pray for things and really get what you want, or have everlasting life, BUT I JUST DONT KNOW, and Ive become OK with that.

When I hear myself talk about gods and all this, I start to think its all ridiculous...I HAVE JUST NEVER SEEN A GOD!

(I guess somebody has to be Judas huh?)

I try not to discuss it and certainly dont aruge with anyone about what they believe, I know they need it to be OK...........I just don't, I guess it would be nice to die, but have eternal life somewhere, but Id be ok with just being dead and turning to dirt.

Just think, if we were all taught that this was normal, we wouldnt fear it, or have a problem with it at all, and I can't help but wonder if my life would had been different without religion.  Instead of living 50 years in depression, fear, rejection, etc..........because I knew/was taught I was a hopeless case that would burn in hell for eternity,,,,,,,,,,,what child wouldn't say "OK I BELIEVE!"....

Im thinking I would had instead lived my life to the fullest each day instead of living in fear of god that wants to kill me and burn me for eternity.

Im actually a bit resentful at my family for brainwashing me like they did, I know they were just trying to help their child, but it made for a miserable life, thus far....

Hopefully things are going to get  better now that I decided to think for myself.

[[Re...]]

So I guess that old saying is wrong...the one that says that "there are no atheists in the foxholes." Then again, this isn't exactly a foxhole with bullets flying and mortars exploding all around, so maybe the old saying possibly still may be true. Who knows?

 

Well that saying's meant for people just like us who are in our own hell, not only for soldiers who are literally in foxholes.I don't agree with it at all though because from personal experience I have been through the worst withdrawal imaginable over the last 6 months and although I thought about spirituality etc, not once did I actually have the slightest thought towards asking some God for help...

So i think that if I can go through the worst hell of my life and not even be tempted to believe in, or pray to a God (Christian or otherwise) then I know for a 100 percent fact that I never will.Only believing in a God,Jesus etc. because you are in serious trouble seems really hypocritical to me anyway.