PLEASE DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL WHEN YOU FEEL RECOVERED

[[Ho...]]

Hey Whoopsie,

 

Do you still think that alcohol caused your setback? Just curious since it's been awhile now.

 

I have always believed that it's not so much downregulated GABA receptors but more about upregulated glutamate receptors.

 

Perseverance is doing some investigation into this and I would really like to see what she comes up with.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=80425.msg1057224#msg1057224

[[Ji...]]

I would like to re-iterate the warning of this thread. I was stupid enough to go out and have a few drinks for my birthday on 27th of March. I really think this has revved up my symptoms for a long time afterwards.

 

 

[[ro...]]

I would like to re-iterate the warning of this thread. I was stupid enough to go out and have a few drinks for my birthday on 27th of March. I really think this has revved up my symptoms for a long time afterwards.

 

The word FEW, as in more than one, could possibly be an important factor which could worsen one's experience.

[[ro...]]

Hi BB's,

 

At 7 months off, I cannot have any hard liquor. I feel sick before the drink is done. However, I seem to be able to tolerate wheat beer or a light domestic, or any white wine. I was a red wine drinker before, but I can't tolerate it at all.

 

Everyone is different, clearly.

Sarah~

 

Looks like someone has done her research... j/k 

[[No...]]

If there's anyone on the planet who knows more about benzo withdrawal than Dr. Heather Ashton, I'll be all ears. Until then, I'm going to continue to follow her guidelines, and her professional opinion is that alcohol, in moderation, is fine for most people:

 

"...a glass or two of wine is perfectly permissible (and even said by some to be advisable for health). Although it is important not to substitute increasing doses of alcohol for decreasing doses of benzodiazepines, there is no need to deny oneself small pleasures. Moderation is the key: there is no call to be puritanical."

 

This seems to me to be very sensible advice, as is her advice about caffeine, food, supplements, and exercise, because, "One is, after all, striving to be normal and sociable, not fussy."

 

There are some "exquisitely sensitive individuals" who will have adverse reactions to caffeine, alcohol, MSG, donuts, whatever, and obviously, those people should adjust their lives accordingly. But in Ashton's experience, which is impressive, the majority of us don't need to worry about it.

 

In fact, I'd suggest that the stress of hand-wringing worry about all this may do more to hinder our progress than a glass of wine could ever come close to doing, but as with everything else, YMMV.

 

[[Ho...]]

If there's anyone on the planet who knows more about benzo withdrawal than Dr. Heather Ashton, I'll be all ears. Until then, I'm going to continue to follow her guidelines, and her professional opinion is that alcohol, in moderation, is fine for most people:

 

"...a glass or two of wine is perfectly permissible (and even said by some to be advisable for health). Although it is important not to substitute increasing doses of alcohol for decreasing doses of benzodiazepines, there is no need to deny oneself small pleasures. Moderation is the key: there is no call to be puritanical."

 

This seems to me to be very sensible advice, as is her advice about caffeine, food, supplements, and exercise, because, "One is, after all, striving to be normal and sociable, not fussy."

 

She also said the supplements are okay if you can tolerate them but in the update to the Ashton manual they are now completely against them. I didn't read if there was a new position on alcohol.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashsupp11.htm

[[Cl...]]

If there's anyone on the planet who knows more about benzo withdrawal than Dr. Heather Ashton, I'll be all ears. Until then, I'm going to continue to follow her guidelines, and her professional opinion is that alcohol, in moderation, is fine for most people:

 

"...a glass or two of wine is perfectly permissible (and even said by some to be advisable for health). Although it is important not to substitute increasing doses of alcohol for decreasing doses of benzodiazepines, there is no need to deny oneself small pleasures. Moderation is the key: there is no call to be puritanical."

 

This seems to me to be very sensible advice, as is her advice about caffeine, food, supplements, and exercise, because, "One is, after all, striving to be normal and sociable, not fussy."

 

She also said the supplements are okay if you can tolerate them but in the update to the Ashton manual they are now completely against them. I didn't read if there was a new position on alcohol.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashsupp11.htm

 

Taking a few supplements has almost completely destroyed my recovery. I tend to think one needs to be even more conservative than the manual indicates

[[No...]]

 

She also said the supplements are okay if you can tolerate them but in the update to the Ashton manual they are now completely against them. I didn't read if there was a new position on alcohol.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashsupp11.htm

 

Maybe there are different versions of the Manual? The one I'm referring to says:

 

"A normal healthy diet which includes generous amounts of fruit and vegetables and a source of protein and fats (from meat or vegetables), and not too much pure sugar or "junk foods", provides all the nutrients a person needs. There is no general need for dietary supplements or extra vitamins or minerals or for 'detoxifying' measures. All these can be harmful in excess."

 

My impression from the update isn't that she's contradicting herself, but rather, reinforcing and expounding on her position--and, it seems, trying to stave off what may be some unscrupulous companies "cashing in" on our situations through the sales of products with no proof of benefit and at least one instance of harm.

 

But I didn't read the whole thing, so maybe I'm missing something (probably am).

 

All that said, I'm taking magnesium, and I'm thoroughly convinced it's helping me ... which illustrates what my final take is on Ashton and, for that matter, this forum: There's not one answer for everybody. There are guidelines. There are some things we know almost certainly aren't a good idea (like cold turkey) and some things we can be fairly certain are excellent, if not obvious, ideas (eat healthy, stay active, be positive), but at the end of the day, there's no one-size-fits-all "cure" for benzo withdrawal. If there were, we wouldn't need a manual or a forum.

 

I think I already said this, but I'll repeat that I'm in no way suggesting that the OP shouldn't have warned others about her experience. It's one that many people have shared, and it certainly gave me pause. And I'm most definitely not encouraging anybody to drink alcohol or coffee or not take vitamins or anything of the sort.

 

My point is that, for some people (like me) who may be prone to hyper-vigilance, paying *too* much attention can do more harm than good.

 

For example, I broke out in several itchy hives after eating almonds a few weeks ago. My old, hyper-vigilant brain kicked in and told me, "Uh-oh! I'm allergic to almonds now! Benzo withdrawal!"

 

Then the (I hope) new and improved, less-vigilant me kicked in and said, "Maybe not." So, I ate almonds again the next day and didn't break out in hives. Which is good because 1) There are things about my pre-benzo self that I don't want back (e.g., anxiety); and 2) I love almonds. 

 

If I'd listened to the hyper-vigilance, I'd have stayed stressed-out about almonds for who knows how long ... and I'd probably have started stressing about other nuts ... making myself nuts ... all for nothing ... and the stress would have hindered my progress not only in withdrawal, but also in fostering some of the coping skills I've picked up in the past decade or so that have nothing to do with benzos and everything to do with why I took benzos in the first place.

 

I'm really not trying to be argumentative about anything. JMO. 

[[kl...]]

If there's anyone on the planet who knows more about benzo withdrawal than Dr. Heather Ashton, I'll be all ears. Until then, I'm going to continue to follow her guidelines, and her professional opinion is that alcohol, in moderation, is fine for most people:

 

"...a glass or two of wine is perfectly permissible (and even said by some to be advisable for health). Although it is important not to substitute increasing doses of alcohol for decreasing doses of benzodiazepines, there is no need to deny oneself small pleasures. Moderation is the key: there is no call to be puritanical."

 

This seems to me to be very sensible advice, as is her advice about caffeine, food, supplements, and exercise, because, "One is, after all, striving to be normal and sociable, not fussy."

 

She also said the supplements are okay if you can tolerate them but in the update to the Ashton manual they are now completely against them. I didn't read if there was a new position on alcohol.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashsupp11.htm

 

Taking a few supplements has almost completely destroyed my recovery. I tend to think one needs to be even more conservative than the manual indicates

 

What supplements did you take and what was the reaction?

[[wa...]]

Those of you responding to this post that are still on benzos need to reread the heading.

"Please don't drink alcohol when you feel recovered"

The OP was addressing alcohol use once you are benzo free, much different situation than those still taking benzos.

The danger of the use of alcohol use while on benzos can be found on your prescription label.

 

 

[[Ma...]]

I'm not going anywhere near alcohol.  Not going anywhere near supplements either.  Basically I figure that there is no such thing as a "good" pill or medication.  I got a massive embolism from the birth control pill, and am now dealing with w/d from the Valium I took for anxiety to handle that event.  No matter what it is (antibiotics, antidepressants, vitamins, whatever), I react really badly to it.  It will be a cold day in hell before I ever take anything that resembles a medication again, unless I'm dying of something curable. 

[Guest [to...]]

I'm not going anywhere near alcohol.  Not going anywhere near supplements either.  Basically I figure that there is no such thing as a "good" pill or medication.  I got a massive embolism from the birth control pill, and am now dealing with w/d from the Valium I took for anxiety to handle that event.  No matter what it is (antibiotics, antidepressants, vitamins, whatever), I react really badly to it.  It will be a cold day in hell before I ever take anything that resembles a medication again, unless I'm dying of something curable.

 

 

I second you on that  Malamutegirl..... 

[[Fl...]]

If there's anyone on the planet who knows more about benzo withdrawal than Dr. Heather Ashton, I'll be all ears. Until then, I'm going to continue to follow her guidelines, and her professional opinion is that alcohol, in moderation, is fine for most people:

 

"...a glass or two of wine is perfectly permissible (and even said by some to be advisable for health). Although it is important not to substitute increasing doses of alcohol for decreasing doses of benzodiazepines, there is no need to deny oneself small pleasures. Moderation is the key: there is no call to be puritanical."

 

This seems to me to be very sensible advice, as is her advice about caffeine, food, supplements, and exercise, because, "One is, after all, striving to be normal and sociable, not fussy."

 

There are some "exquisitely sensitive individuals" who will have adverse reactions to caffeine, alcohol, MSG, donuts, whatever, and obviously, those people should adjust their lives accordingly. But in Ashton's experience, which is impressive, the majority of us don't need to worry about it.

 

In fact, I'd suggest that the stress of hand-wringing worry about all this may do more to hinder our progress than a glass of wine could ever come close to doing, but as with everything else, YMMV.

 

I agree with this to an extent. I think that the effects of alcohol are generally overblown in the benzo community (just because it hits gaba receptors doesn't mean it will automatically cause problems).

 

On the other hand, I went from being able to tolerate alcohol with no problems whatsoever, to not even being able to tolerate drinking one beer. By 25 months off, a single alcoholic beverage started giving me a 2 day "hangover" type wave, probably due to sleep disturbances caused by the alcohol. And it wasn't like this happened once. I tried having 1-2 drinks a handful of times after the 2 year mark and each and every time I had the same reaction.

 

So do I think moderate alcohol will cause setbacks for the majority of people? No. But I do know from firsthand experience that  some people can't tolerate alcohol at certain times during wd.

 

At the end of the day though it all a guess. I'm guessing that even Ashton's stance on this is based mostly on anecdotal evidence.

[[kl...]]

If there's anyone on the planet who knows more about benzo withdrawal than Dr. Heather Ashton, I'll be all ears. Until then, I'm going to continue to follow her guidelines, and her professional opinion is that alcohol, in moderation, is fine for most people:

 

"...a glass or two of wine is perfectly permissible (and even said by some to be advisable for health). Although it is important not to substitute increasing doses of alcohol for decreasing doses of benzodiazepines, there is no need to deny oneself small pleasures. Moderation is the key: there is no call to be puritanical."

 

This seems to me to be very sensible advice, as is her advice about caffeine, food, supplements, and exercise, because, "One is, after all, striving to be normal and sociable, not fussy."

 

There are some "exquisitely sensitive individuals" who will have adverse reactions to caffeine, alcohol, MSG, donuts, whatever, and obviously, those people should adjust their lives accordingly. But in Ashton's experience, which is impressive, the majority of us don't need to worry about it.

 

In fact, I'd suggest that the stress of hand-wringing worry about all this may do more to hinder our progress than a glass of wine could ever come close to doing, but as with everything else, YMMV.

 

I agree with this to an extent. I think that the effects of alcohol are generally overblown in the benzo community (just because it hits gaba receptors doesn't mean it will automatically cause problems).

 

On the other hand, I went from being able to tolerate alcohol with no problems whatsoever, to not even being able to tolerate drinking one beer. By 25 months off, a single alcoholic beverage started giving me a 2 day "hangover" type wave, probably due to sleep disturbances caused by the alcohol. And it wasn't like this happened once. I tried having 1-2 drinks a handful of times after the 2 year mark and each and every time I had the same reaction.

 

So do I think moderate alcohol will cause setbacks for the majority of people? No. But I do know from firsthand experience that  some people can't tolerate alcohol at certain times during wd.

 

At the end of the day though it all a guess. I'm guessing that even Ashton's stance on this is based mostly on anecdotal evidence.

 

When do you think you will try to have a drink again, or have you quit forever?

[[Fl...]]

When do you think you will try to have a drink again, or have you quit forever?

 

Good question.

 

I'd like to think that one day I will be able to have a drink again, but I don't have any plans for that in the near future. At this point in time I just cannot afford to take any chances with my recovery. Even if there is only a 1% chance that alcohol might delay my healing for even a short time, it's not worth it.

 

 

[[Cl...]]

Klonodan

 

I have to take a few particular supplements because I have very severe adrenal fatigue but since benzo w/d I haven't been able to take any of them. I reacted badly to melatonin, too much vitamin c, lidocaine nasal spray, glutathione and I'm 2 weeks into schizophrenic episodes brought on by 1 pill of seriphos. Everyone is sensitive to different things

[[sa...]]

When do you think you will try to have a drink again, or have you quit forever?

 

Good question.

 

I'd like to think that one day I will be able to have a drink again, but I don't have any plans for that in the near future. At this point in time I just cannot afford to take any chances with my recovery. Even if there is only a 1% chance that alcohol might delay my healing for even a short time, it's not worth it.

 

 

 

Hey Florida Guy,

 

I don't think it delays healing, just agitates. Makes sense if it is uncomfortable and revs your system to not do it, though.  I had a reaction to vit c that was terrible. I caught a cold during my taper, and vit c in high quantities has always been my go to to get over it in a matter of days...not so this time.

 

As I think about this, I haven't had a cold in over a year...maybe I am not remembering correctly. Typically before this benzo mess, when I would be sleep deprived for whatever reason, I would eventually catch a cold a couple of times a year. My body just responds so differently to everything.

 

Time is what makes us better per the only concensus we can count on, and that is what other recovered BB's share with us.

 

 

[[Ho...]]

At the end of the day though it all a guess. I'm guessing that even Ashton's stance on this is based mostly on anecdotal evidence.

 

I tend to agree with this FG.

 

A PhD in pharmacology in Vancouver British Columbia who studies benzo withdrawal says that alcohol, amongst other things, needs to be avoided for 3-5 years AFTER the cessation of symptoms from the benzo wd.

[[Wh...]]

At the end of the day though it all a guess. I'm guessing that even Ashton's stance on this is based mostly on anecdotal evidence.

 

I tend to agree with this FG.

 

A PhD in pharmacology in Vancouver British Columbia who studies benzo withdrawal says that alcohol, amongst other things, needs to be avoided for 3-5 years AFTER the cessation of symptoms from the benzo wd.

 

Thanks Hockey Boy for that validation.  I was hopeful that people would listen to my experience but it looks like people are gonna do what people are gonna do.  I am 4 years off today.  This setback has lasted 10 months and still going.  I just want people to know that this can happen AFTER they are recovered and to be very cautious, as I was not, in that I didn't know.  Anyone who reads this thread will know and that's all I can do is warn.

 

Happy Anniversary to me. 

[[No...]]

I tend to agree with this FG.

 

A PhD in pharmacology in Vancouver British Columbia who studies benzo withdrawal says that alcohol, amongst other things, needs to be avoided for 3-5 years AFTER the cessation of symptoms from the benzo wd.

 

Wow. I wasn't aware that there had been studies conducted on this, specifically. Can you post the link to the study? (I know lots of them are behind a paywall, but we can at least usually see the abstracts.)

[[Sk...]]

I tend to agree with this FG.

 

A PhD in pharmacology in Vancouver British Columbia who studies benzo withdrawal says that alcohol, amongst other things, needs to be avoided for 3-5 years AFTER the cessation of symptoms from the benzo wd.

 

Wow. I wasn't aware that there had been studies conducted on this, specifically. Can you post the link to the study? (I know lots of them are behind a paywall, but we can at least usually see the abstracts.)

omg!  It really takes that long for the brain to get back to normal? 

 

-SZ-

[[Cl...]]

At the end of the day though it all a guess. I'm guessing that even Ashton's stance on this is based mostly on anecdotal evidence.

 

I tend to agree with this FG.

 

A PhD in pharmacology in Vancouver British Columbia who studies benzo withdrawal says that alcohol, amongst other things, needs to be avoided for 3-5 years AFTER the cessation of symptoms from the benzo wd.

 

Ive spoken about this a few times and everyone hear called me a quack.  For some people this probably is true, and I believe it goes for all chemical sensitivities. Just because one is asymptomatic doesn't mean they are fully healed. These drugs take far more from us than we realize

[[sa...]]

I tend to agree with this FG.

 

A PhD in pharmacology in Vancouver British Columbia who studies benzo withdrawal says that alcohol, amongst other things, needs to be avoided for 3-5 years AFTER the cessation of symptoms from the benzo wd.

 

Wow. I wasn't aware that there had been studies conducted on this, specifically. Can you post the link to the study? (I know lots of them are behind a paywall, but we can at least usually see the abstracts.)

omg!  It really takes that long for the brain to get back to normal? 

 

-SZ-

Sky,

 

Everyone is different. There are people that can just stop and have only a month or so of symptoms. It could take 3 years, but it could just take a year or less. I have not seen this report or investigation. Whoever posted it should cite their sources. If anything, I hear about people not having any problem...Hang in there.

 

Sarah~

[[Sk...]]

I tend to agree with this FG.

 

A PhD in pharmacology in Vancouver British Columbia who studies benzo withdrawal says that alcohol, amongst other things, needs to be avoided for 3-5 years AFTER the cessation of symptoms from the benzo wd.

 

Wow. I wasn't aware that there had been studies conducted on this, specifically. Can you post the link to the study? (I know lots of them are behind a paywall, but we can at least usually see the abstracts.)

omg!  It really takes that long for the brain to get back to normal? 

 

-SZ-

Sky,

 

Everyone is different. There are people that can just stop and have only a month or so of symptoms. It could take 3 years, but it could just take a year or less. I have not seen this report or investigation. Whoever posted it should cite their sources. If anything, I hear about people not having any problem...Hang in there.

 

Sarah~

Thanks Sarah.  I agree.  Where are the references to back up these claims? 

 

-SZ-

[[...]]

I have a feeling that Ashton did not thoroughly study the effects of foods and drinks including alcohol during recovery from benzos, probably because she didn't have the time or the means to do so. If she had studied diet in benzo withdrawal, she would have had to dedicate at least 100 pages to MSG and I can't even find one place where she mentions it. I can't even begin to describe how much pain that stuff gives me and how it throws me back into acute withrawal, whereas small amounts of sugar and caffeine hardly lead to anything anymore at this point in my recovery (they meant trouble in the beginning, though). And calling a glas or two of wine "perfectly permissible" is a rather risky statement, even if it is true that some people can drink alcohol with no ill effects.

 

Ashton is a very reliable source for the actual withdrawal using her well-tried Valium method but everything else that she writes I would take with a grain of salt. That includes her chapter on antidepressants, which should not even be in her manual if you ask me.