Need help with titration Please

[[sk...]]

 

Hello,

 

I am in PWS, having been through c/t and then reinstating my clonazapam and am down to 1mg. I take 1/3 3 times a day but know I am not able to cut into exact thirds. I've been on this almost a week now and s/x getting worse.

 

Could someone please tell me how to do an titration with the water? I'm not sure it will help with the w/d s/x coming back as I'm starting to fear they will get as bad as they were although trying very hard not to think that way. I had the worst s/x in the book and then some, hence the fears.

 

If someone could help me with this I'd be so grateful as I'm having a hard time even understanding things and of course this too is getting worse. (I've read Ashton many times and still don't understand difference between the tolerance w/d and protracted, just know it's AWFUL)

 

thank you all for your continued help.

[[Th...]]

 

Hello,

 

I am in PWS, having been through c/t and then reinstating my clonazapam and am down to 1mg. I take 1/3 3 times a day but know I am not able to cut into exact thirds. I've been on this almost a week now and s/x getting worse.

 

Could someone please tell me how to do an titration with the water? I'm not sure it will help with the w/d s/x coming back as I'm starting to fear they will get as bad as they were although trying very hard not to think that way. I had the worst s/x in the book and then some, hence the fears.

 

If someone could help me with this I'd be so grateful as I'm having a hard time even understanding things and of course this too is getting worse. (I've read Ashton many times and still don't understand difference between the tolerance w/d and protracted, just know it's AWFUL)

 

thank you all for your continued help.

 

Hi skooter,

 

Here is what information Colin needs from you to set up a titration schedule.... http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=11093.msg150014#msg150014

 

Do you have a 100ml cylinder and 10ml syringe yet? It usually takes Colin a day or two notice to get the schedule ready.

 

The titration works by crushing your dose, mixing with milk and removing a small amount everyday.

 

Hope this helps!

 

T2

[[...]]

AFter you get your supplies and schedule and you have any more  questions.  Just ask away.  I titrated and it really is easy

[[sk...]]

Hi T2 and Cal,

 

 

thanks for reply. Hubby just brought home the syringe, but forgot the cylinder thing said he'll go back out. He said the druggist said I shouldn't be doing this without doctor haha if they only knew and don't we know it. Duhhh.

 

I am sure he can get a measuring cup of some kind here in Canada as we are in metric. I'll show him Colins post.

 

I do have questions though if thats ok? I'm wondering if others were in w/d mode bad when they started their titrations? Because it's getting bad to the point where I was when c/t and the fear is running at me from behind because of what I've been through. Is it as bad as a rapid taper or already bad w/d? Or do you think it will help. I feel stupid asking these ? because I know everyone is different.

 

I only have 2mg colanaz and have been cutting then in half for the 1mg for last week. And cutting the 1mg into threes and taking one of the thirds, 3 times a day to equal 1mg a day. I just keep hearing the words once you've c/t you can't go back and have easier time with w/d and wonder if this true.

[[an...]]

The goal of titration is to gradually decrease the amount of meds you take each day. 

 

You grind the tablet and mix it well into a fixed amount of liquid such as milk.  You then can divide the doses for the day.  Each day you might throw away a small amount measured off with the syringe.  The schedule Colin prepares will tell you how much of the liquid to drink each day. 

 

I haven't looked at the videos Colin has mentioned but you should. 

 

As far as symptoms during the titration, I expect they would vary from person to person.  I am sorry that I can't provide any insight based on personal experience. 

 

Once you have everything ready, make a request for titration schedule.  There is some information you need to include in this request so make sure you check to see what it is. 

 

 

[[Th...]]

Hi skooter,

 

I just don't know if this will help you feel better or not. I don't recall reading about anyone doing it this way before. Colin should be checking in sometime this weekend. Maybe he can help you with your questions.

 

T2

[[Pa...]]

Hi skooter,

 

I remember saying one time that you can never go home to benzo's they won't take you back.  They can never again make you feel good because you know what they are now.  Since your CT last October and again in January your body has been in a crazy uncontrollable tailspin.  You've set in motion the ravaging withdrawal symptoms that will continue until you've taken your last pill and until your body can heal, however long it takes.

 

I don't know anything about titration, but I think it's supposed to provide a smoother taper, a controlled taper.  I don't know if that's possible for you since you've put your body through such extremes by CTing and updosing. 

 

I know you're in pain and I know you're scared, all of us here know what you're feeling.  I can't imagine having to do what you're doing over and over again, it's no wonder you're so scared.  But, Skooter you can do this and you can make this the last time.  It's not going to be easy, titration won't be the answer you're looking for.  It's simply another method to withdraw from the benzo's.  It's still going to hurt.

 

I'm so sorry, I know you're in pain, but these symptoms won't kill you.  They can kill your spirit if you let them, but you're too strong for that.  You have a wonderful husband, great kids and a beautiful grandchild to keep you here and strong.

 

I hope you find peace.

 

Pam

 

 

 

[[sk...]]

Thanks again T2,

 

You know Pam, I always hear you iin my head as sI continue to do this. I'm in tears rightnow reading you again. I always make things worse no matter what I try and do. Guess I'm in pit y party mode think it's to do with what I know is to come again and don't know if I can do it which was why i reinstated to try and do it right or somethin g right for once.

 

I just don't know if I can make it through it all again ebcause of the severe PWS. even the pain is getting worsee and I didn't have pain while my body was vibrating with the needles and numbness in y face and body etc.

 

I'm sorry, i can't see what i'm typin for tears. Hugehugs Pam thank you for stifking by me.

[[Co...]]

Hi Skooter,

 

Do you still need help with this and for me to draw up a schedule? If you can supply the information I will draw up a schedule within a day or two.

 

Thanks.

[[sk...]]

Thanks for the offer for titration all,

 

I'll give it a few more days to see how my taper here goes. I'm almost done with it so doubt the titration would help. Again though what do I know anymore at this point

 

If it gets to bad I'll go for titration if that's ok

 

Thanks again

[[sk...]]

.Hi again,

 

I was wondering if Colin had read what Pam and TS have posted to me about not thinking that titration would help me and if he's ever helped anyone that's done anything near what I've done with coming off of so many meds and then doing a c/t for 5 weeks, then reinstating to do a rapid taper as I've been doing off of clonazapam. I read what TS and Pam have said and figured I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't so figured I had no choice. Hence where I am at now.

 

Reason being is when I was trying the taper on to high of a dose I was getting extreme panic and depression which I never had while in c/t. I think it was due to what I was going through with the physical part. I would cut when they would both start again and I'd be find mentally. Now "trying  to cut the small .5mg of clonazapam into 3 was getting to be to much and have been taking less but I know they are all wrong amts. because of the difficulty in cuttin such a small piece. Do you or anyone think that the titration may help me more at all?? Has anyone ever done this that you know of and had an easier time?

 

Sorry I'm so indecisive here but now that my s/x are getting worse both mentally and physically again I'm just fearful of getting to where I was c/t and feeling as though I might not be able to go through with continuing to suffer.

 

Thanks again, and this is the second attempt at trying to explain so  hoping it gets through

[[Lo...]]

Hey skooter,

Only God knows if things will get easier for you if you switch to titration. None of us can know for sure what the future holds for any of us. I know that you are scared of going thru s/x again, but there is no way out of it. Your body has to heal and the healing can be painful. To keep the symptoms tolerable is the goal and desire of all of us. In my opinion, I think that titration might help you out mentally in your taper. You know how a cold turkey feels and don't want to go there again. You have uped and down a bit on your tablets, so why not try titration. A fresh and new experience in your benzo journey might be a good thing. I think you should start your titration as soon as possible and keep moving forward. Anyone who I have read about that switched to titration said it was much more tolerable. I'll support you in whatever you want to do, I just want you to beat this.

 

Lori

[[Co...]]

HI Skooter,

 

I'm about to log off - I'll reply more fully tomorrow (I don't have time to review all of this thread now).

 

Take care,

 

Colin.

[[sk...]]

Thank you Colin and Lori,

 

I hate to be that pain in the butt and yes I've got the benzo fears now that I know what I've felt.

 

I think you're right Lori and again thanks. I am still trying to get the container and will have hubby and daughter out looking for it tomorrow (thursday).

 

I have one more question if ok. I know I've gone on and on with my s/x and my anguish and it's the only way I've felt able to deal with as I'm alone and nobody understands here. I am just wondering if you've heard anyone ever talk about the feeling of being crushed from the front of chest and going right around to the entire back and spine, where it feels as though the all of the bones in the torso are sticking out in every direction. I understand how everyone is different and haven't seen anything like this yet in the forums and this is why I ask. This is the biggest factor next to the other obvious ones I've so often whined about in posts. I truly was never a whiner as bad as this when I used to go and help at boards to do with pain, and years ago with depression and feel like a child which is so not like me and very embarassing.

 

Thanks again, you are all such a huge help to so many and I only hope that one day I to can be of help to others in some way.

[[Co...]]

Hi Skooter,

 

I've reviewed this thread (I did skim though, so let me know if I have misunderstood your situation).

 

Since you are down to a single 1mg tablet of Klonopin per day, you might use titration without a full-blown schedule. Simply make up 100ml of liquid using a single 1mg pill, and reduce your dose by 1-2ml per day. So, day 1, you would take 98-99ml, and on day 2, you would 1-2ml less. Reduce your three daily doses in stepwise fashion, so that they remain roughly equal in size as you taper.

 

When down to about 50ml (0.5mg), I'd probably reduce by just 1ml per day, or even 1ml every other day if you are struggling.

 

I usually draw up plans for those taking several tablets per day. A schedule is great for motivation, but can be straitjacket if adhered to even when it turns out to be too fast or slow (we normally offer to draw up a new schedule with an emended taper rate in such situations).

 

In all probability, you will have completed your taper in 3-4 months (this would be a pretty gentle taper from 1mg Klonopin per day).

 

Let me know if you need any more help.

 

 

Edit: typos.

[[sk...]]

Thanks again Lori,

 

And thank you Colin. This will be my next step asap. I'll draw up a type of schedule for myself so I don't lose track of the mls I'll be dropping.

 

Thanks for your input and suggestions. Sorry I'm not at the norm for where I'm at. I just want all of this to be a success for me and get back to being human.

[[Co...]]

Good luck.

[[sk...]]

Sorry another question,

 

I have been taking this dose divided into 3. So 3 times a day with the cutting.

 

when I take out 1ml do I do it for just one dose a day, or all 3? I've been taking at noon, 5pm and 10pm. I think this may be part of my problem also in that I never took this stuff during the day, only at night for 20 plus yrs. Very rarely would I take any during the day unless had to go on a trip etc.

 

I'm guessing I just do it during one of my doses, once a day?

[[Co...]]

Hi Skooter, I just mean 1ml from your total daily dose. Just try to keep the three doses as even as possible, reducing the doses in stepwise fashion.

[[an...]]

Get out a container you can use each day (thin, clear would be best that holds over 4 oz or 120 ml).  You need to be able to mix up the solution and also be able to get a syringe into the solution to take out some. 

 

Get out a measuring cup and measure a fixed amount of water in it (100 ml or close) and pour it into the container.  Mark the side of the container with a piece of tape - this will be the amount of liquid you use each day.

 

Mix the smashed/ground pill into the liquid well.  Get out the syringe and measure out 1 ml the first day and dump it into the sink.  Divide the liquid into 3 parts as best you can for your doses (3 clear small identical glasses, cups or pill bottles would work if available).

 

Day 2 take out 2 ml etc. 

 

Let me know if you have more questions. 

[[sk...]]

Thank you Annie!!!

 

I have all I need now and am starting in the morning. 

 

Keeping my fingers x'd here all will get better. Thanks again all.

[[sk...]]

Hello again,

 

I just reread all of my/our posts and noticed that Colin thought I was taking the whole 1mg of the K. I am only taking half of that which is .5 (been reading others schedules etc. and the math is so beyond my comprehension, sorry). So today was day two and I took out 2ml. I'm already experiencing my s/x coming back with a vengance and worried if 1ml a day is to much?

 

I've now got the fear in the back of mind, trying hard to not think about it, but when the s/x are creeping in each day it's kind of hard. I know this isn't supposed to be easy especially in my case of all I've done now and is the reason I'm asking. Am I the only one that's ever reinstated after doing a c/t to have such difficulties?

 

Thanks again for the info and understanding

[[an...]]

you put that usual amount in the liquid didn't you?  not twice it?

 

assuming you did, then dropping the 1 ml today is just cutting the daily dose today by 1 % of what is was yesterday - assuming you used 100 ml of liquid

 

as further days go on that drop will start to increase but not a whole lot for many days

 

I will check in again before I go to bed if you have more questions

[[sk...]]

Hi Annie,

 

yes I'm just putting in the .5mg in the 100ml of water. I took out 1ml yesterday and 1ml today. Am I suppose to do 2ml today and 3ml tomorrow and so on and so on? I am wondering is this to fast, sorry I'm confused with such a simple thing. My w/d is getting worse again and I suppose that ol fear thing is rearing it's head with the mental s/x coming back too.

 

Thanks again Annie

[[an...]]

It was another ml (or 2) each day is what I understood for the first half. 

 

If you think this is too fast then take out and dump just a half of a ml more each day. 

 

As far as symptoms go, I would expect they would be some.  Others might be able to comment more on that aspect as my task here is the mathematical aspects of all of this.  Why don't you post that on one of your other threads. 

 

The goal is to get you off and this is cutting the doses each day by taking where you are and drawing a straight line down to zero is 100 days (1 ml/day - 100 ml total).  It is pretty slow but might be faster than you can handle right now.