Daily Reduction Charts, Liquid Valium Mixes, and Discussion Thread

[[La...]]

Tina,

 

I first put a few drops of water on my valium pill, it dissolves quicker that way. I had an incident last year with a new batch of pills where the new pill did not dissolve as well in the milk. Since then I first use a little water and then pour on the milk.

 

This way I can use my dose within a couple of hours.

 

Hope this helps

Love

LaSueca

[[he...]]

Hi.  I'm re-posting this here, hoping for help.  thanks!

 

Hi folks,

 

Needing help getting off the last 1mg. Went down to 1mg tto quickly, got slammed and had to go up to 1.16. mg holding here right now. The last couple of nights were rough. I was traveling and I think something was off in the dose. I feel like every drop makes a difference now. I tried diluting in the past and ended up with a very heavy dose the second night as if the water had evaporated. Haven't done it since. I really need help. I've come so far I've got to keep going and get off. My doctor actually said that if I got it to 1mg and I had to stay there for the rest of my life that would be okay.  No way!  Any advice for the final stretch? 

 

Thanks for any input!

[[Di...]]

I've just replied to your other post.

[[Di...]]

bump

[Guest [Da...]]

I have read posts of people being stuck at a certain dosage level while holding for a period of time...say 3-6 weeks, and their w/d s/xs do not ease. I find this baffling because when I do a hold, my w/d s/xs do ease, and I am ready to reduce again.

 

I would appreciate any thoughts, tips re: how to get over this hurdle (strategy), why this may happen, etc. Please quote this post each time so that the replies remain combined.

 

Danni

[[zi...]]

Hi my names Zipper....

 

I need some help am feeling really ill at the minute.....not been on here for a while...in fact not since December 2012.....can't even remember how to change my signature line  ........ was on Ativan and did a crossover to Valium August 2011.........when I last posted I was on 10mg of Valium am, 7mg noon, and 7mg at night........am currently on 7mg as of 8th March 2012...4mg am, 2mg noon, and 1mg evening.......have really hit a brick wall am using Ashton method with help from my Doctor am worried that I have tapered to quick ........my family and wife don't believe the hell I am going through to get of these horrendous drugs...I have a young 6 year old daughter who loves me unconditionally and keeps telling me she is praying for her Daddy to get better...my wife is a teacher and works long hours and is struggling to hold it all together herself...she takes my daughter to swimming and gym club etc as I am so poorly at minute....when I have episodes when I am out and about just short trips in the car etc I have anxiety/panic attacks real bad.....but in a strange way with all symptoms of panic attack..but without the racing heart.....wondered if anyone else had experienced this......anyhow to try and get to the point am currently on 7mg as I said and have read about titration method and am really desperate for some help on how to do this......as I want to slow down my taper and have hit a brick wall with dry taper.....don't mind admitting am terrified at minute and am so desperate to get of these hideous drugs and get my life back.....

 

BTW have no brothers or sisters and no real support from anyone so hoping this site can help me for not losing my sanity completely...think my wife only way of coping with things is to ignore what is going on and just get on with things....she is even going away to see her Mum and Dad in Ireland at easter and leaving me on my own for 4 days....she says has to keep getting on with her life.......anyhow hope someone can help

 

Zipper

[Guest [Da...]]

Hi Zipper:

 

I am so sorry you are not feeling well. I responded to you on the Diazepam thread.

 

Danni

[[Br...]]

am currently on 7mg as of 8th March 2012...4mg am, 2mg noon, and 1mg evening.......have really hit a brick wall am using Ashton method with help from my Doctor am worried that I have tapered to quick

 

Nice to hear from you Zipper. I hope things improve for you.  I found I had to take 3 equal doses of diazepam.  I couldn't manage with the different strength doses you take. 

 

I used to have bad interdose withdrawal on a previous benzo sleeping tablet, so I guess I'm now extra careful to keep doses equal. I used to try and skew my doses so that I took more at night to help me sleep but I definitely felt better after I evened my doses out - even at night.  Maybe you skew yours the other way around to avoid daytime anxiety.

 

I wish you well.  Am sorry you do not have more sympathetic and understanding support.  It can make a big difference when you're not feeling well

[[Ho...]]

Hi everyone,

I am still liqui titrating V and am down to .39 mg and reducing .01 mg every other day. Just wondering at what dose it would be safe to stop the V.

Looking forward to Your opinions

 

Thanks

 

H

[[li...]]

Hey there Holger-

 

I just stopped taking Valium 5 days ago. This final drop (.50) was SURPRISINGLY EASY!

 

I was anticipating a much worse time. So far, I can honestly say that I have not felt this good in 1 ½ years.

 

I believe that Valium looses it’s therapeutic value @ around  ½ (.50) mg.

 

I had been reducing @ .03 daily since 5/2012. Prior to that I had a “accidental” cold turkey, (12/6/2011 - 1/15/2012) re-instated to 15 mg, then tried “cut & hold” (2/2012 - 4/2012 (s/x’s were unbearable)). I reached “tolerance”  PRIOR to withdrawal. Valium had become “TOXIC”  to my system.  I am VERY sensitive, (have had 30+ side effects prior to & through out taper).

 

I based my decision to jump on 3 things. My heart rate, the fact that Valium had become TOXIC to my system & the extensive cognitive behavioral therapy  I have received. I also felt that current s/x’s were so debilitating that I had nothing to loose by “JUMPING”(I was prepared to re-instated if necessary.) I have only had a few hours of INTENSE s/x’s. Other wise s/x’s are very TOLERABLE & minimal. Turns out, jumping was VERY EASY. I could not have "jumped" before reaching .50mgs (Valium). (heart rate - felt like heart was going to explode).

 

This has been my experience thus far.

 

Holger, we are all unique, I would based my decision on HOW YOU FEEL physically & psychologically.

 

IMHO: IT IS SAFE TO JUMP AT .50MGS of Valium.

 

GO FOR IT!

 

Cheers,

Joe

 

 

 

[[Di...]]

Oh Wow - I'm so excited for you Holger!!  Almost time to jump!! Let us know how you get on.

[[li...]]

I have read posts of people being stuck at a certain dosage level while holding for a period of time...say 3-6 weeks, and their w/d s/xs do not ease. I find this baffling because when I do a hold, my w/d s/xs do ease, and I am ready to reduce again.

 

I would appreciate any thoughts, tips re: how to get over this hurdle (strategy), why this may happen, etc. Please quote this post each time so that the replies remain combined.

 

Danni

 

Why hello there Danni!

 

Some how I missed this. I will share my thoughts on this question.

 

I am one of those people where "holding" for more than a couple days gives me NO relief. I constantly read stories here at BB where folks get "stuck" @  a certain level. I can relate to this. I believe you will find this most common amongst those of us who have either: Reached "tolerance", cold turkey or where Valium has become "toxic" to our bodies. No matter what we do, there is NO RELIEF!

 

The best advise I can give to anyone who this pertains to is to just KEEP PLODDING ALONG  @ a rate of reduction that is most comfortable for you. HOLD for a couple days when necessary. SWITCH IT UP when you hit a wall. (LISTEN TO YOUR BODY).Then resume taper.

 

I have tried every method of tapering. (Dry cut & hold, traditional titration, micro titration, & daily reductions.) I found that once I hit 3 mgs, things took a turn for the worst. Doing daily reductions, s/x's were becoming UNBEARABLE. The only thing I could think of was to SWITCH IT UP & try reverting back to cut & hold from daily reductions.(at beginning of my taper this technique was unbearable).

This change turned out to be the answer for me to be able to continue on with my taper. I chose to go at the same rate (.03 per day) .03mg x 7days = .21mg per week. I did this for a month, ran into another rough patch & switched AGAIN. I just switched between Daily reductions & cut & hold for the last 3 mgs of my taper.

 

The DIFFERENCE between the two techniques for me were:

 

Daily reductions: The psychological s/x's were INTENSE. The physical s/x's were TOLERABLE.

Cut & Hold: The physical s/x's were INTENSE, The psychological s/x's were TOLERABLE.

 

I hope this helps you to understand a bit more about toxicity, benzo's & how to get OFF of benzo's if this applies to you. I am sure there are others here that can give you a more "scientific" aspect of what EXACTLY TOXICITY is. NOT my forte.

 

Cheers,

Joe

 

 

[Guest [Da...]]

I have read posts of people being stuck at a certain dosage level while holding for a period of time...say 3-6 weeks, and their w/d s/xs do not ease. I find this baffling because when I do a hold, my w/d s/xs do ease, and I am ready to reduce again.

 

I would appreciate any thoughts, tips re: how to get over this hurdle (strategy), why this may happen, etc. Please quote this post each time so that the replies remain combined.

 

Danni

 

Why hello there Danni!

 

Some how I missed this. I will share my thoughts on this question.

 

I am one of those people where "holding" for more than a couple days gives me NO relief. I constantly read stories here at BB where folks get "stuck" @  a certain level. I can relate to this. I believe you will find this most common amongst those of us who have either: Reached "tolerance", cold turkey or where Valium has become "toxic" to our bodies. No matter what we do, there is NO RELIEF!

 

The best advise I can give to anyone who this pertains to is to just KEEP PLODDING ALONG  @ a rate of reduction that is most comfortable for you. HOLD for a couple days when necessary. SWITCH IT UP when you hit a wall. (LISTEN TO YOUR BODY).Then resume taper.

 

I have tried every method of tapering. (Dry cut & hold, traditional titration, micro titration, & daily reductions.) I found that once I hit 3 mgs, things took a turn for the worst. Doing daily reductions, s/x's were becoming UNBEARABLE. The only thing I could think of was to SWITCH IT UP & try reverting back to cut & hold from daily reductions.(at beginning of my taper this technique was unbearable).

This change turned out to be the answer for me to be able to continue on with my taper. I chose to go at the same rate (.03 per day) .03mg x 7days = .21mg per week. I did this for a month, ran into another rough patch & switched AGAIN. I just switched between Daily reductions & cut & hold for the last 3 mgs of my taper.

 

The DIFFERENCE between the two techniques for me were:

 

Daily reductions: The psychological s/x's were INTENSE. The physical s/x's were TOLERABLE.

Cut & Hold: The physical s/x's were INTENSE, The psychological s/x's were TOLERABLE.

 

I hope this helps you to understand a bit more about toxicity, benzo's & how to get OFF of benzo's if this applies to you. I am sure there are others here that can give you a more "scientific" aspect of what EXACTLY TOXICITY is. NOT my forte.

 

Cheers,

Joe

 

Thank you so much Joe for your perspective. I see that there can be many factors at play here.

 

Congratulations on your jump! That is so awesome! Wishing you healing and wellness my friend.

 

Danni

[Guest [Da...]]

Hi everyone,

I am still liqui titrating V and am down to .39 mg and reducing .01 mg every other day. Just wondering at what dose it would be safe to stop the V.

Looking forward to Your opinions

 

Thanks

 

H

 

Hi Holger:

 

Jump when you feel ready. I really do believe one needs to be psychologically prepared. Let us know when this happens. Best wishes.

 

Danni

[Guest [Da...]]

Bumping this thread.

[[he...]]

Currently at .92 mg V.. I am totally exhausted all the time. Help!

[[li...]]

Hi HH-

 

Hey, congrats on getting under 1mg!

 

Wish there was something I could suggest for fatigue. I have been plagued with fatigue ever since I jumped a month ago. I just keep on exercising & rest when needed. It will go away eventually.

 

Is fatigue the only s/x you are dealing with now?

I have the "jerking" organ thing you have spoken about going on also. This s/x didn't start till 3-4 months ago. 

 

Did this s/x go away?

 

Hang in there HH.

 

 

 

[[he...]]

Hi Liljoe,

 

Thanks for your message.  I am resting a lot but for the moment have been too wiped out to exercise:..which I have always loved   I am not having the intense spasms but that is probably because I am going so slowly. I do get these little twitches when thr V wears off after about five hrs sleep and I am trying to go back to sleep. I am afraid to say that the spasms are gone because I've learned to never say gone with this stuff. 

 

Congrats to you for being off!! Are you better? Seems relatively fast given my rate. If I ever write a book I will call it The Endless Taper...just keeps going..over two years already!!! I so much want to be done!!!

 

Sending you all best wishes..

 

HH

[[li...]]

Hey HH-

 

You will be able to exercise again. At the rate you are going you will be off in a little over 3 months. That is not to long. Be strong, you are almost there!

 

I am SO much better than when tapering! Thanks for asking. Just a few minor s/x's. They seem to increase if I push myself to hard. I have been trying to make up for the lost time from tapering for 1 1/2 years. Have to slow it down & find a pace that works for me! Can be difficult, as there is way to much that has to be done around my place!

 

You & Perseus both go very slow. Hey, whatever works for you. Makes quality of life Sooo much better when one can taper slowly & have minimal s/x's. Good for you my dear!

 

Be well!

 

lj

[[he...]]

Thank you 

[[Di...]]

I have read some speculation over a period of time that when a titration solution is made using valium and water or milk it may lose its potency over a period of time.

 

I think I have just proven to myself that this is true. At the moment, with the level that my dose is at, my 100ml solution is lasting in excess of 5 days. When I began to have insomnia problems I wondered if it could be because of loss of potency. So after making up a fresh batch the insomnia problem improved.

 

This may not be the case for everyone, and it could just be a co-incidence, but if you start to experience problems try making a fresh batch to see if that resolves things. I would suggest only keeping a valium and liquid solution for no more than about 3-4 days. You could either throw away any remaining solution, or try making up a smaller proportioned batch (eg 0.5ml liquid valium with 50ml water), which is what I'm doing at the moment.

[[Br...]]

I have read some speculation over a period of time that when a titration solution is made using valium and water or milk it may lose its potency over a period of time.

 

I think I have just proven to myself that this is true. At the moment, with the level that my dose is at, my 100ml solution is lasting in excess of 5 days. When I began to have insomnia problems I wondered if it could be because of loss of potency. So after making up a fresh batch the insomnia problem improved.

 

This may not be the case for everyone, and it could just be a co-incidence, but if you start to experience problems try making a fresh batch to see if that resolves things. I would suggest only keeping a valium and liquid solution for no more than about 3-4 days. You could either throw away any remaining solution, or try making up a smaller proportioned batch (eg 0.5ml liquid valium with 50ml water), which is what I'm doing at the moment.

 

Hello DP.  I too wonder if dilute solutions lose potency.  I don't reliably have the mental focus and attention needed to correctly make up daily batches, so I use liquid valium to make up about 6 days worth at a time.  I use a 1:20 solution and store it at room temperature.  I figured that the liquid valium's preservatives would prevent the solution going moldy or smelly as might happen in the case of milk-based titration solutions.

 

However the dilute solution would intuitively seem to be more prone to degradation.  I think someone once posted that ultraviolet light might degrade the valium but, even then, the difference would be small.  There are hints of info about this on some web pages but nothing conclusive.

 

http://www.pharminfotech.co.nz/manual/Formulation/mixtures/diazepam.html

http://www.drugs.com/pro/valium.html

 

I tried to observe how I felt when I switched to a new batch but I'm cutting in weekly steps so my cuts complicated any observations and I couldn't reach a conclusion.

[[Di...]]

Hi Braban

 

I guess I still have a little bit of doubt over whether there is a potency issue or not, although all the signs are pointing to it.

 

I'm not taking the risk though. I'm making up a smaller proportioned batch every 2 days now until I get down to 2mg.

[[...]]

Moving this post from the Valium thread to this thread.

 

 

Hi, everyone,

 

I was hoping you guys could help me out a little, please? I've been Rx'd liquid diazepam (5mg:5ml) because I've been having a really, really horrible time with dry cutting.  :sick: Once I hit 20mg it has been gruesome for me. I'm down to 16mgs now but at a standstill and so my pdoc and I decided it was finally time for me to try the liquid.

 

I've read the thread on chart calculations, equipment needed, etc., (brilliant thread!), but I'm still a little confused about a few things. Can someone please help me? 

 

 

1. Did you try the liquid out for a while first to see if you could tolerate it? If so, for how long?

Yes, 6 weeks- gave me a gut ache...

 

2. Do you need to be stabilized before you start taking it?

No, just switched over. Many buddies do hold for a couple weeks

3. Do you need to be stabilized before you start cutting again?

Preferably

 

4. I only want to cut 0.5mg about every two weeks. Should I dilute it in 100ml water to make it easier to do it that way?

You could.. but why tamper with a pharmaceutical mix unnecessarily?  Use a combo of tablets & liquid. Very accurate & easy.

Here is another way to consider:

Use 5:5 pharmaceutical undiluted. To lose .50 in 14 days you can taper .04mg/ml a day. This will equal 4 lines (per day) on a 100 increment syringe using a 5:5ml  (1:1) solution.

 

Here is an example of 1 simple/easy way:

Currently @ 16mg a day, losing approx. .50  every 14 days, 2x a day dosing @ .04 daily reduction will look like this:

 

                        Am                                                        Pm

 

Day 1          8mg tabs                                            8mg tabs     

      2          6mg tabs+1.98ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.98ml liquid

      3          6mg tabs+1.96ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.96ml liquid

      4          6mg tabs+1.94ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.94ml liquid

      5          6mg tabs+1.92ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.92ml liquid

      6          6mg tabs+1.90ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.90ml liquid

      7          6mg tabs+1.88ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.88ml liquid

      8          6mg tabs+1.86ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.86ml liquid

      9          6mg tabs+1.84ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.84ml liquid

      10        6mg tabs+1.82ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.82ml liquid

      11        6mg tabs+1.80ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.80ml liquid

      12        6mg tabs+1.78ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.78ml liquid

      13        6mg tabs+1.76ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.76ml liquid

      14        6mg tabs+1.74ml liquid                      6mg tabs+1.74ml liquid

                                                          15.48 mgs

                                          .52 Reduction in 14 days

 

 

 

5. Any other words of advice off the top of your heads?

KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!  Many long term users find that symptoms present regardless of any reasonable taper amount or rate  (5-10% 10-14 days). So just try to be consistent & get off of poison at a reasonable rate that is comfortable for you.

 

That's all I can think of at the moment but I'm sure I'll have more questions soon enough. Thanks so much ahead of time for any help that you guys can give me. 

 

Good luck & smoooth tapering to you Koko!  Ask lots of questions...

koko

 

 

This is my plan. ANY input would be terrific and very much appreciated.

 

Here is my daily schedule:

 

6am - 7mgs  ( 1 x 5mg + 1 x 2mg tablets )

5pm - 9mgs  ( 1 x 5mg + 2 x 2mg tablets )

 

I am not stabilized even though I have been holding 17 days. Last cut of 1mg (17mg down to 16mg) I was NOT stabilized after holding at 17mgs for 25 days. In other words, I cannot seem to stabilize anymore for some reason. I have not been able to stabilize since I went below 20mgs. I think it may be partially (not completely) due to changing my dosing schedule. I used to dose 4x per day. When I got down low enough I was dosing 3x per day. I decided that rather than stay at 3x per day, I would start dosing 2x per day. So, maybe that has added to whatever made my body / head decide to stop stabilizing below 20mgs. It could also be due to just plain being on this drug for so long (over 30 years).

 

So that is why I'm going to start the liquid while I'm still up pretty high at 16mgs. I need to feel better. I can't tell you all how sick and tired and weary I am from feeling like crap ALL the time. And my head, oh geez, I can never ever think straight anymore. It's horrible as I'm sure most of you know from your own experiences. 

 

Whine, whine, whine...... 

 

So here's what I want to do now. Hopefully I'll get some feedback on whether or not this makes sense to anybody else but me:

 

For the next 7 days:

 

6am - 7mgs  ( 1 x 5mg + 1 x 2mg )

5pm - 9mgs  ( 4 x 2mgs + 1ml liquid V, 5mg/5ml solution)

 

This will be a trial to see how my GI tract, etc., tolerates the liquid. Plus it will give me another 7 days to (hopefully, but not pinning any hopes on it!) stabilize.

 

After that I would like to drop ~0.5mgs in 14 days from my 5pm dose by taking daily cuts from the 1mg of liquid V like this:

 

6am - 7mgs  ( 1 x 5mg + 1 x 2mg )  <--- this will stay the same for now

 

 

5pm:

 

Day 1 = 8.96 mgs ( 4 x 2mgs tablets + 0.96mgs liquid )  <---- drop of .04mgs

Day 2 = 8.92 mgs ( 4 x 2mgs tablets + 0.92mgs liquid )  <---- drop of .04mgs

etcetera, etcetera, until Day 14.

 

 

Is my mind working okay? Have I figured this out right?

 

If so, how in the world am I going to be able to get that accurate with a little 1ml/cc syringe?

 

Also, do I have to shake liquid V before using it? Or do I draw it directly out of the RX bottle?

 

Is there anything I'm missing here?

 

 

My head hurts from trying to focus enough to figure this out. Hopefully I've come across clearly to you all but I really honestly cannot tell if I have or not. Sorry if anything I've written is unclear.

 

liljoe, if you make it to this thread, I want to thank you so very much for giving me the example above. How in the world would we ever manage to do all of this stuff if we didn't have each other on this forum? That is a definite head-scratcher for sure!

 

 

 

koko

 

[[...]]

Bump

 

Anybody?