How come GABA does not return to homeostasis even with slow taper?

[[li...]]

Perseverance and anyone else who may have answers,

 

Do you have any information about the timeframe required for upregulation/downregulation of the 'benzodiazepine receptor' (central type and peripheral) during a taper/after stopping the drug ?

 

The same for the various glutamate receptors, cAMP, neuroactive steroids and whatever else I may have left out

 

Of course it's individual to a large degree, but since you've been posting all this stuff I wonder if you have any sources or knowledge.

 

Isn't there one particular chemical substance that makes people feel 'sleepy' ? if so, do you know anything about that ? I virtually never feel 'sleepy', regardless of whether I sleep or not.

 

Answers appreciated

[[li...]]

Hi bart,

 

You would be shocked at how simple it is to WAKE UP billions of sleeping receptors?

 

First question: WHAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A TRANQUILLIZER??

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

 

Question #2: Do people on diet pills EVER complain of ANXIETY?  Why not? This is very odd in itself yes? So how can people get hooked on an ANXIETY CAUSING MEDICATION Think about it very carefully now?? 

 

sub-performance of the dopamine, norepinephrine, and glutamate processes in the brain responsible for self-regulation functions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

 

 

So about a month after jumping and your still NOT feeling right this is what you may wish to explore this with your Dr. in small doses.

 

Low dose - Anti-tranquillizer therapy

 

Birdman, do you have any scientific sources that support your suggestion of Ritalin for 'benzo withdrawal' ?

[[ih...]]

Liberty, unfortunately, there have yet to be any studies done on the length of time it takes neuroreceptors to upregulate. This is partly because such studies would need to be done in the context of the whole human brain as there are multi factors that effect receptor changes.

 

Likewise, while melatonin signals certain changes in the brain to increase sleepiness, it will not be sufficient if the hypothalamus is not responding correctly & the hypothalamus is commonly dysregulated after long term benzo use.

 

There is a lot that is unknown about sleep, even the precise mechanism of how anaesthesia works on the brain is not yet known, we can only see that it does produce unconsciosness.

[[Bi...]]

Hi liberty,

 

I have finally hired a top addictionologist Dr. to help me.  It is nice to sit with a Dr. for an hour that chats with me and is not trying to rush me out of the office.  This Dr. is so cool.  He was telling me stories of all the drug addicts that he has treated.  One thing he noticed is that people coming down from benzo's that were also COKE users seldom had trouble with benzo withdrawal or benzo PAWS. They would just go to coke and basically bypass withdrawal.  Then they ended up on coke since they would have to stay on it for months (BAD).  But he learned how this mechanism works in the brain.  Since "R" is basically legal coke it can be used in a controlled way to effect the same results.  That's what I was told. I will report back in 30 days and tell you how I feel on the "K" treatment - He said it should cut any benzo PAWS syndrome time down by 80% or more in my case.

 

Bird

[[Bi...]]

I almost forgot. 

 

He said going from Benzo's to Coke worked to reset the brain (but created a horrible Coke addiction) but if you when from Coke to benzo's this was VERY BAD since you have then created the opposite chemical conditions and set the brain up for a SUPER CRASH. He called this Stevie Nicks syndrome.

 

I am very intimidated and a bit scared as I am going to be on all the drugs that scare the $hit out of me.

It should be a hell of a ride but after 6 months of tapering in tolerance w/d I am ready for anything, it can't get any worse (I hope)

 

Bird

[[...]]

This is all very interesting. I'm glad you're going to keep us informed. It's just not for me.

#1

[[Pe...]]

Perseverance and anyone else who may have answers,

 

Do you have any information about the timeframe required for upregulation/downregulation of the 'benzodiazepine receptor' (central type and peripheral) during a taper/after stopping the drug ?

 

The same for the various glutamate receptors, cAMP, neuroactive steroids and whatever else I may have left out

 

Of course it's individual to a large degree, but since you've been posting all this stuff I wonder if you have any sources or knowledge.

 

Isn't there one particular chemical substance that makes people feel 'sleepy' ? if so, do you know anything about that ? I virtually never feel 'sleepy', regardless of whether I sleep or not.

 

Answers appreciated

 

Hey Liberty,

 

ihope gave you a great answer regarding your question on up-regulation.

 

She is spot on regarding the hypothalamus too.  There are so many things in play that work against sleep in BW- the nervous system is left in a hyperexcitable state with the calming abilites compromised, the Suprachiamatic Nucleus of the Hypothalamus can be out of phase from benzo usage- which controls our circadian rhythm, there can be an increase in cortisol levels after benzo cessation and they can become erratic during inter-dose WD, and other hormone levels can be off from prolonged HPA Axis supression.  No wonder we have so much trouble sleeping for such a long time.

 

However your body is working at reversing all of these things as you recover.  Getting all of these things back on line all at the same time takes a very long while.  I had horrible insomnia in the beginning- I literally could not sleep for even one minute for six days straight- then only one hour a night for over a month.  That morphed into 3 hours a night, then 5 hours, then a whopping 7 whole hours a night.

 

There are some things you can do to help yourself out.  Practicing strict sleep hygiene helped me tremendously.  I did things like- keeping regular sleep and wakes times, making the room i slept in cold and very dark, I dimmed the lights in my house and my TV backlight 2 hours before bedtime to help promote Melatonin production, I used Low Blue light glasses on the occassions when I had to turn up the lights, I ate a snack each evening that contained a protien and a carbohydrate, I did not take phone calls after 7 PM, I watched feel good shows in the evening and avoided show that promoted stress, I used self hypnosis relaxation CDs while lying in bed to help relax all of my muscle groups...

 

If you do your homework you can find many good sleep hygiene suggestions and taylor a plan that will work for you.  Even though it is important to keep in mind that these changes will still take some time to turn around.

 

Avoiding caffiene can help too.  I switched from chocolate to carob and drastically cut down my coffee intake to 1/2 cup a day.  Some people have eliminated it all together.

 

I hope some of these suggestions help.

[[li...]]

Liberty, unfortunately, there have yet to be any studies done on the length of time it takes neuroreceptors to upregulate. This is partly because such studies would need to be done in the context of the whole human brain as there are multi factors that effect receptor changes.

 

Likewise, while melatonin signals certain changes in the brain to increase sleepiness, it will not be sufficient if the hypothalamus is not responding correctly & the hypothalamus is commonly dysregulated after long term benzo use.

 

There is a lot that is unknown about sleep, even the precise mechanism of how anaesthesia works on the brain is not yet known, we can only see that it does produce unconsciosness.

 

It has been ages since I've had the regular connect between sleepiness and sleep.

That's from my pre-clonazepam use. Doesn't sound good.

In the past infrequent use of malatonin often helped. these days, while it may do something it won't put me to sleep.

 

If only ...

[[...]]

Brdman - Very interesting insight from you dr. please share your progress as well as any helpful hints you may learn along the way.  I would imagine the coke would reduce benzo withdrawal because it really stimulates the dopamine pathways so you should feel pretty good overall if you took a substance that increased dopamine production.

 

The strange thing is that I haven't seen anyone get any relief using any nutritional supplements or herbs that stimulate dopamine or seratonin.  Could be that the doseage isn't high enough and/or doesn't cross blood/brain barrier.

[[Ma...]]

Zoner,

 

I saw the graph you posted about dependence and harm.  I really don't agree with that graph.  He puts cocaine right up there.  Cocaine is not that physically addicting and easy to get off.  Benzos are much harder to get off.  There is no prolonged withdrawal sydrome for people getting off cocaine. 

[[ih...]]

There is a fair bit of evidence that if you use cocaine for long enough you will completely destroy your dopamine receptors & may need to be on ADs for the rest of your life just to feel joy.  Also the disinhibiting effects of cocaine tend to result in a huge amount of collateral damage such as financial ruin, sexual indiscrimination & inability to hold a job.

[[Bi...]]

Hi,

I agree coke is NASTY stuff and the addiction is very serious.  The addictionologist is a guy that observes thousands of drugs addicts and mainly observes patterns.  He does not have a big university and 10,000 mice and rats to study.  I am told that if small amounts of certain drugs are used for short terms it the correct sequence it can tweak the brain back into sink.  He called it "doorways and keys"  I do not understand it yet but I am learning as I go. If it works I will report back.  It may be an option for some people having a hard time with lengthy healing.

 

Peace and love

 

Bird

[[zo...]]

He said going from Benzo's to Coke worked to reset the brain (but created a horrible Coke addiction) but if you when from Coke to benzo's this was VERY BAD since you have then created the opposite chemical conditions and set the brain up for a SUPER CRASH. He called this Stevie Nicks syndrome.

 

Hi Bird. As I recall Stevie Nicks was deliberately put on benzos by her doc to help with her cocaine withdrawal. I guess you've seen the video clips where she describes her experiences. http://www.benzodocs.com/benzo_videos.php So should she be suing her doc?

 

It would be interesting to see some info which described the particularly severe problem your doc describes of of going from cocaine to benzos but I couldn't find any research articles about this.

 

-Zoner

 

 

[[Bi...]]

Hi zoner,

I talked to my Dr, about the lack of information on this topic.  He did not say much just grinned.  Looking around his million dollar office I did not have to ask any more questions. I am a business woman and know about how arcane know-how is used to make wealth also.  I am sure this Dr. would rather make $850.00 per hour than to write a book on the topic.  Sad but true and like many things it's probably harder to do than it seems. Time will tell.

 

Bird

[[zo...]]

Hi zoner,

I talked to my Dr, about the lack of information on this topic.  He did not say much just grinned.  Looking around his million dollar office I did not have to ask any more questions. I am a business woman and know about how arcane know-how is used to make wealth also.  I am sure this Dr. would rather make $850.00 per hour than to write a book on the topic.  Sad but true and like many things it's probably harder to do than it seems. Time will tell.

 

Hi Birdy. I guess Stevie Nicks could afford a top addiction doc who would have known if cocaine followed by benzos was particularly toxic. The connection between the two drugs and the sequence your doc mentions doesn't seem to be very well known.

 

-Zoner

[[...]]

There is a fair bit of evidence that if you use cocaine for long enough you will completely destroy your dopamine receptors & may need to be on ADs for the rest of your life just to feel joy.  Also the disinhibiting effects of cocaine tend to result in a huge amount of collateral damage such as financial ruin, sexual indiscrimination & inability to hold a job.

 

I read that Benzos also affect Dopamine, Seratonin, and others along with GABA so that always makes us wonder what kind of damage could have been done to those receptors too.  Of course we witness basically EVERYONE healing back to 100% even if it takes 2+ years so it would mean that the effects of long term benzo use are reversible.  I know it's hard to believe that all of the symptoms will go away when you're in the midst of it.

[[Bi...]]

Hi inw,

 

I have often wondered if we really heal or do our brains just eventually call the new condition normal and basically we just get used to feeling this new way?  I guess you could call that healing too.  I do wonder how it really works?  I remember being 6 weeks on a boat in the Caribbean and when we landed I got LAND SICK.  I could not stand that the world was so still and missed the rocking sensation of the boat. I was really ill and staggering about! Then after 2 days on land I got used to it again. I do really wonder if it works out that way in our brains perception of WHAT IS NORMAL and WHAT IS ABNORMAL?  How we feel is really 100% perception.  I still cling on to the hope that if I can still say that I do not feel right that my brain still knows what that must feel like since it knows something is still wrong.

 

Things that make you go hmmmmmm?

[[...]]

Birdman,

 

I can definitely see the part where you need to "adjust" to surroundings, but as many of us have experienced, we KNOW there is something really "OFF" in our perception, mood, feelings, physical stature, etc... basically everything. 

 

You can have the best diet and try all kinds of supplements but it sucks to say that TIME is the only thing that is really making a difference.  I think other drugs that counteract the withdrawal or aid in the regulation of Dopamine, Serotonin, GABA, etc. are the only thing that can make you feel "normal" and possibly aid/speed up healing.

[[Ma...]]

Just want to say that Stevie Nicks was already off cocaine when she was put on benzos.  She had been off a while.  Benzos were not used to get her off cocaine. She had been off.  Then she went to a psychiatrist! and he decided she needed benzos.  Erroneously.

[[Bi...]]

Yes,  time, time, time.  I hate the thought of wishing my days away until then.

[[Ma...]]

Well how are you doing Birdman since jumping?

[[Ri...]]

Yes,  time, time, time.  I hate the thought of wishing my days away until then.

 

 

Until then, I'll just continue my memoirs on Fear and Loathing of Better Living Through Chemistry.

[[...]]

Birdman:

 

How are you feeling? Keep us posted.

 

Bart

[[Bi...]]

Hi bart,

 

I am in AUDIO HELL!

I jumped a little early so I am having a bad time with tinnitus.  The odd part is it's all audio disturbances.  The tinnitus is through the roof!!!  If I put on a set of headphones and play loud music  then I feel just fine minus some head pressure sensations.  Then if I take them off I start feeling bad in 30 minutes or so.  I wonder how long this stage will last?  If it is like a cut it should clear in two weeks for the final time, I can only hope. Any advice from my fellow benzo buddies is invited and would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Bird

[[zo...]]

I am in AUDIO HELL!

I jumped a little early so I am having a bad time with tinnitus.  The odd part is it's all audio disturbances.  The tinnitus is through the roof!!!  If I put on a set of headphones and play loud music  then I feel just fine minus some head pressure sensations.  Then if I take them off I start feeling bad in 30 minutes or so.  I wonder how long this stage will last?  If it is like a cut it should clear in two weeks for the final time, I can only hope. Any advice from my fellow benzo buddies is invited and would be appreciated.

 

Hi Birdy. You've probably read what Ashton mentions about tinnitus  http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha03.htm#30 and

http://www.benzo.org.uk/pha-1.htm but have you seen this article http://www.benzo.org.uk/busto.htm

 

Aspirin is well-known for causing tinnitus so that may be an additional factor for you.  http://vestcollective.ca/aspirin-tinnitus.php

 

-Zoner