Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[aw...]]

Hi, One day:

 

I would say you can make that change (moving 0.25 mg from AM to PM) without causing problems if you do it gradually. I would do it in 3 or 4 steps, with a couple of days between each step. All doses the same is said to be the ideal condition; ever tried melatonin for sleep?

 

Aweigh

[[On...]]

Hi aweigh, do you mean like moving the .25 up to the nest dose and so on until I reach night dose?

 

Thanks

Oneday

[[On...]]

No I haven't tried Melatonin. Is it safe?

 

 

Unfortunately I didn't wait a few days for my changing dose ends. I just went ahead and did it. Hopefully it won't effect anything

[[On...]]

Mountain Man,

 

Cedar got off ativan using compounded pills.  I just got them in .0625 doses.  They are capsules filled with powder.  I have not used them yet, but will in the future.  I will let you know how that goes.

 

It probably is more accurate to get a pharmacist to compound those doses, because it is true that the pills don't have the drug evenly distributed throughout the pill.  HOWEVER, that being said, many people have gotten off ativan by cutting pills.

 

I know this is not fair, you should be able to get treatment from the VA, but, things being as they are, which is NOT FAIR, perhaps you can find a doc like I did, a shrink that does not take insurance, and just pay out of pocked for the rest of this journey.  It is a pretty significant thing to do, and trying to get the VA to accomodate you, well, I know what that would probably be like.

 

My shrink is very willing now to give me compounded pills or probably liquid if I want, because I have shown him I am serious about getting down.  And there is NO REASON for him not to allow me to get compounded meds.  What is the point of denying someone that if there are pharmacists out there that do this for a living?

 

Just something to consider. 

 

Perhaps you can search for P2's blog, she got off ativan by cutting pills, she was right where we are right now at this time last year.

 

Hugs.

 

Can you tell me what your pharmacist used as filler in your capsules?  I got my compounded capsules before a long weekend, was very sick and in pain all weekend, and when the pharmacy reopened the next week, we discovered he filled them with pure lactose powder, to which I am allergic. He said they were probably 99% lactose and only 1% diazepam.

 

I'm just wondering what other options are available as fillers. I asked if the could just put the pure diazepam in and leave he filler out altogether and he said its not possible to get an accurate dose that way.

[[aw...]]

Oneday: Yes, it's the safest sleep aid I know of. OTC at your drugstore. It's a hormone produced by the body in response to the changes that accompany the end of the day and the beginning of sleep, mainly less light. The only potential problem is that it's not regulated in the US, being a "dietary supplement" so they can and do sell tablets with far too much melatonin, and many are incorrectly labeled, intstructing you to take at bedtime. I'll tell you exactly what my neurologist (a sleep specialist) told me: "Yes, it's safe and quite effective for some of my patients. Take 1-3 mg 2 hours before bedtime". He emphasized that the dose and timing were important. I don't take it at bedtime if I've forgotten. I tried 4 mg one time and felt sick the next day.

 

You did the change w/o ramping and didn't suffer too much, which says that it's not that critical. At least for you.  I doubt it will "affect anything".

 

Aweigh

[[On...]]

Okay thanks I'll give it a try.

 

I was going to try to do a daily taper where I would reduce .01 a day, but my scale isn't that accurate it seems. How should I proceed? I really am worried.

 

I had been reducing by .125 every two weeks but even that seemed to give me problems. sx like crying and feeling terrible. Well, I never feel perfect, in fact I feel quite shitty. I wonder if I should just continue my .125 reductions or go ahead and try to reduce daily by .01?

 

 

You see the powder doesn't seem to weigh accurately. I don't know what to do.

[[aw...]]

OneDay:

 

Why don't you read my taper? http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=89360.0 You wouldn't need to run the whole taper, just the part about putting Ativan into solution. It will be a hassle, but it will also work. I don't know of any way to measure 1 mg (the weight of tablet containing 0.01 mg Ativan) dry w/o a very expensive balance. Here's another link that might be helpful, from a little further down on this very page: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=44903.msg1152491#msg1152491

 

I hope this is useful. I do think smaller daily cuts produce way less symptoms than bigger weekly or biweekly ones; that's why I went to all the trouble of cooking up this wet/dry taper. And when it really matters the most is right at the end.

 

Aweigh

[[On...]]

This is all very complicated for me right now, but I will have my family look into it. Maybe they can help.

 

I had another question Aweigh, do you think cutting .125 is okay for now?  It's all I can manage. They aren't very accurate cuts either. If I had a high end scale that would be great. It's much more simple, and all I can really seem to do is simple now. Then again if I can learn the methods above I will try.

[[mo...]]

Thanks Mairin , I am going to look into getting a private Doctor to write me a compound for lorazapam . I think the many of us long term vets get institutionalized at the VA after awhile. VA has been doing really well with us . I think they tend to get overwhelmed there are so many of us vets now. When the Doctor started to talk about a 4 day detox at the hospital really scared me !

I am starting my cut down to .50 today .Four doses of .125  I am listening to my body about when to cut instead of days. The last time I waited 13 days instead of 10 because of anxiety issues . I starting to think that this can be done. Go slow 

[[aw...]]

Oneday:

I'm beginning to realize that no matter how much I try to simplify this method, it's going to be just too much for a lot of people whose cognitive abilities are compromised by wd. When I can, I'll try doing a "simplified version" without all the fascinating but extraneous info.

 

I think any cut that doesn't produce a lot of symptoms is the right cut. Don't try to do more "than I can manage". I know how hard it is to cut 1/2 mg A tabs; $50 will get you a Gemini jeweler's scale from Amazon that would make a 0.125 cut (12.5 mg of tablet) quite accurate and 0.0625 mg possible. It's also true that the human eye and brain are very good at estimating the relative size of piles of white powder. +/- 10% is probably good enough for splitting pills and that's about what you can get by "eyeballing" it. But you gotta have a little faith in yourself to do it! 

If you can manage to 'get liquid', your dry cutting problems are over. If you tell me specifically what's confusing you about the method, maybe I can expain it. That will also tell me where to make an edit when I try for a revision.

 

Aweigh

 

[[Em...]]

Hi all,

 

I started w/d in mid June 2013. I'd been on 1 - 1.5 mg of ativan a day for five years. Naively, I decided to start my taper by going to .5 mg a day. It was HELL for over a month but I rode it out because I didn't want to step back wards after investing all that suffering in my w/d time. Maybe a mistake? Here it is three months later and while things are much, much, better, I still have dizziness, brain zaps, and some anxiety. Not terrible, but I don't feel like I have stabilized to the point where I can make another (much smaller) cut. Yes, NOW I have read the Ashton Manual and yes NOW I have jumped to valium (2.5 mg/day) and yes I now realize I made a mistake when I started this process with a 50% cut. But I am wondering if anyone else who cavalierly went on a too fast 'taper' off ativan found it took a long time to stabilize. Thanks, and best wishes to you all, and may everyone have some good moments today in the global community of benzo w/d.

 

(BTW, I went to 2.5 mg not 5 mg of valium because that's the way US docs and pharmacists calculate the ativan to valium ratio -- half of what Dr Ashton says.)

 

Emily

[[Ma...]]

But I am wondering if anyone else who cavalierly went on a too fast 'taper' off ativan found it took a long time to stabilize. Thanks, and best wishes to you all, and may everyone have some good moments today in the global community of benzo w/d.

 

 

 

Emily

 

Well yes Emily.  I started with a large drop in dose.  It was truly incredible, how long it took to stabilize from that.  Yes, I would wait until you feel stable.  I know I surely was not stable after 3 or even 6 months after that.  But at 6 months I was better.

 

It is very unbelievable how long it takes to recover from a large drop in benzos.  If you went from 1.5 to .5, that is more than 50%, that is like 66%, no?

 

anyway, something that keeps coming to my mind is a video of Dr. Ashton saying, the point of this is a "slow steady decline in blood levels".  So that is what we are trying to do by tapering.

 

Hold until you feel reasonable.  I had to keep cutting even though I was not stable, and I did improve, but I was on a ridiculous high dose.  However, I stabelized, going slow, even while continuing to cut.

 

Just what happened to me.  It took about 9 months though, from the initial large drop, to feel like I had a foot back in the land of the living.

[[Em...]]

Thanks Mairin33. I am adjusting to my symptoms and will indeed just hold here for awhile. I am happy that I feel better than I did three weeks ago.

[[On...]]

hi aweigh, lately I have been use just a razor blade because it seems more accurate than my pill splitter and I can hold the pill together somewhat with my own fingers so that it doesn't split sideways as that has happened a few times with my splitter.

 

Sorry, my understanding of it is not very good no matter what you do I think but that's okay I'm trying to find other methods. I have been cutting .5 tabs into .125 and that's about as small as I can get them.

 

This Gemini scale, it is very accurate? I suppose it would be nice to have once I get lower. I will look into it. .625 would be nice.

 

 

Oh I had another question, would it be better if I dosed at 9am 3pm 9pm 3am? I hear this is ideal for Ativan tapering but am not sure. I already spaced my doses out a little further than I had them and this seemed to help greatly for some interdose wds I was having early morning.

 

 

I also have a bunch of failed pill splits. I don't suppose I could crush them and have accurate doses?

 

 

 

Thanks much for your help

Oneday

[[mo...]]

One Day , I feel it is an individual  preference but I seem to do well on a 7 am 12 pm 5 pm and 10 pm schedule  give or take a half of an hour. It might take time for your body to adjust to the dose. I also found that habitation daily exercise helps my WD and insomnia .  MM

[[On...]]

Thanks mountainman, I think my dose is something like that. right now I think my body has to adjust before I can make any more tweaks. I made two very close together and I'm not sure my body is ready yet.

 

 

On 2nd thought, I think I will try to make sense of the liquid titration taper, Aweigh. Because I need consistency. Can you show me the supplies on Amazon link you use?

 

Thanks, I will read through your liquid solution blog.

[[Ma...]]

Just chiming in.

 

Trying to bump this thread cuz i see a lot of new ativaners on the boards.

 

I am six days in to taking the new .0625 compounded pills.  Seem fine.  I made my first cut using them. 

 

Lots of difficult emotional stuff the first few days.  Usually starts for me on the 1st day and last about 4 days.  It is pretty consistant that I go through that after a cut.  Also, high heart rate has started, that is kind of new for me.

 

I am sure I had that during acute but I was so riddled with symptoms then it was hard to focus on just one symptom. lol omg  I am not in acute anymore, thank God.

 

But I am getting into the territory of getting below 1 mg, which was my lowest prescribed dose.  I was on at least 1 mg for many many years.  So these are uncharted waters for me.

[[mo...]]

Mairin , I have the same trouble when cutting. The  first few days lots of anxiety. I am dosing at about 7 am 12 pm 5 pm and 10 pm give or take an half an hour( Cedartree's Plan ). Seems to work alright except for morning anxiety. I do have insomnia problems . I can get to sleep easily but have trouble staying asleep.

[[jo...]]

So I've started taking .25 mg (1/4 pill) when I start feeling symptoms coming on, and another .25 mg at 9:00 PM.

 

It seems to be going okay so far.  What would you recommend for the next step?  I've been down to .5 mg/day since last Sunday (1 week ago today).

[[Ma...]]

Ok Josh could you add a little to your signature, so we can see your drug history?  That would help with advice.

 

How long you were on, how quickly you tapered.

 

I think you said you are still working?

 

Ok so you want to stay as functional as possible.  I've started using compounded pills that are in the dose of .0625.  It might be good if you can get those, because I would advise you to start taking this real slow now.  If you can't, you can conceivably cut that with the .5 pills, it will just be a little difficult.

 

I used to cut my pills every day, but now I just cut them up once a week, helps me keep my mind off it a little more.

 

If you could cut by .0625 every two weeks, that would be about 8 steps, or four months.  Does that sound reasonable to you?  I know it may not. 

 

The reason why I believe in tapering over a long period, is because I got hit really hard.  I really think the body needs time to adjust downwards.  And also in small increments.  If you did it that way, you could be off by December/January.  That is really not a long way off.  This is pretty serious stuff.

[[Bi...]]

[[mo...]]

Just Incredible , I went to my family GP to get help with a script for compounding doses. The first thing he told me was I would not get around having serious withdraws symptoms .I think what he was saying at some point I would have to CT. I showed him a possible Ativan taper plan from a well know  BB member. My doctor went for it wrote me a script to take to a compounding pharmacy . Do your research and go in prepared to talk to your Doctor . MM

 

 

.25          .125        .125      .25                   Total:  .75

.125        .125        .125      .25                   Total:  .625

.125        .125        .125      .125                 Total:  .50

.125        .0625      .125      .125                 Total:   .4375

.125        .0625      .0625    .125                 Total:   .375

.0625      .0625      .0625    .125                 Total:    .3125

.0625      .0625      .0625    .0625               Total:    .25

.0625      .0312      .0625    .0625               Total:    .2187

.0625      .0312      .0312    .0625               Total:    .1874

.0312      .0312      .0312    .0625               Total:     .1561

.0312      .0312      .0312     .0312              Total:     .1248

                .0312      .0312     .0312             Total:     .0936

                                .0312    .0312             Total:     .0625

                                             .0312             Total:     .0312

                                                                   Off!

 

[[ja...]]

Hi Mountainman, Congratulations thats wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!  I did the same thing as you when I c/o to Valium a friend on BB wrote me a taper plan, actually 2 plans just in case and we took the Ashton Manual in a day before. My Doc did it. I try to tell everyone to be prepared when going into the Doctor. Most of them don't want to think about a plan for you. I also have always figured how many pills I need too. My Doc just writes the script every 3 months.

 

So happy for you!!!!

Love Jackie

[[mo...]]

Thank you Jackie , You sure have much to be proud of . You have really come along way ! MM 

[[Ma...]]

That is great MM, that you got him to agree to the compounded pills.  It is expensive, but I just started using them, and gee whiz it takes a lot of the aggrevation out of cutting pills, messing with water titration and all of that.  Actually ins will pay half the cost of the pills for me, so better than nothing.

 

Sometimes docs say that, they give you worst case scenario, so that when it is not that bad, they can say, "Oh you did good" lol. 

 

Keep in mind, it really MAY NOT  be that bad, MM.  It will almost certainly be better than C/T.

 

Really, everybody is different.  No one goes through the exact same thing.  Perhaps this doc has never done a real slow and low taper with someone before, and has only seen the results of drastic reductions.

 

I am glad you got those compounded pills.  I don't know why that is so hard for people to get sometimes, there is no reason for that.  People are paid to do exactly that.  Silly to deny it to anyone who really needs it.

 

Hugs.