Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[ph...]]

Thanks Mairin and Birdman, I really appreciate it. I will stay away from the Ambien... and the over-thinking. Best to you.

 

[[ja...]]

I wasn't going to post this morning about my daughter until I could find out how random she is taking Lorazapam. But last night was so discouraging to me to see her in the state of mind she was in. I have posted about this before and really would like some advice from my fellow buddies. Cedartree I have talked before with you about this, but my daughter was not ready to stop taking it. Now she is having more problems due to the drug.

 

First off my daughters name is Becky and she is getting married next May 2014. She works full time as a dental assistant and needs to keep her job. I believe over the past 2 to 3 years she has very randomly taken Lorazapam. But this past year I believe she has taken it more ofton, yet not at the same time everyday.

 

She has become increasingly more agitated and more anxiety, emotional and fearful. Worrying a lot. I have said things to her for a while now, but she cant talk about it. I think it scares her to confront this. Unfortunately she is going to have to now I believe.

 

Last night we went and picked out Tuxes and had dinner. After we went to her house and talked. I went home and soon after she called me in tears. She was in a full blown panic attack to the point of even throwing up. She said she is in a living hell. She took a Lorazapam and in about 45 minutes she calmed down some. She use to take Lorazapam and would calm down within 20 minutes.

 

My question is should she get on a steady dose and get stable then taper and how much? Or should she start cutting down smaller now from what she takes. I'm not sure a c/t would be good for many reasons, but what do you think about that given her usage?

 

I am so worried for her. She is 25 years old and a lovely woman, but this drug is ruining her life. She is very fragile. Please, Please, help me. As a mother I feel so torn apart. I feel like someone has just stuck a knife in my heart. I'm going to re post this on the Lorazapam blog and mine. I appreciate any and all thoughts on this.

 

Please anyone who understands taking Lorazapam not on a schedule and finding themselves with w/d sx, please advice. I need help knowing what the best approach for my daughter is.

 

Love Jackie

 

 

[[Ma...]]

Hi Jackie, replied to this on your blog

 

[[mo...]]

Hi All , The only vitamin / mineral supplement I take is a daily multi-vitamin. I have leg cramps during the day and restless Leg Syndrome in the evening. Bad involuntary muscle jerking. I got a OTC medication from my pharmacist called Leg Cramps  PM homeopathic by Hyland's . Works sort of ok before I go to bed  and seems to help me sleep. But my legs are cramping up pretty bad during the day . I have been reading that magnesium chelated folks have luck with . I have also read that folk say stay away from supplements to let your body heal naturally . I do walk and hike almost daily.  I do take  a PPI for GERD and Barrettes Esophagus  for years . Anybody have any suggestions ? Thanks MM

[[...]]

mg, ca and potassium have helped some people

I would try big doses of mg glycinate or theonate at bedtime

[[On...]]

Mountainman, someone on another thread had this problem and posted about it. Someone else suggested tonic water. He tried this and it stopped his problem. Because he had this problem everyday, he posted every day for a while about his progress. He said 1/4 cup a day solved his problem and he never had this happen anymore. If I can find or remember who that was on what thread, I'll get you a link to it.

 

Good luck.

 

By the way, tonic water is a very old fashioned remedy. It has quinine in it, I believe. It is very relaxing. My husband has used it at times and we had friends that taught us about it years ago.

 

Good luck.   

[[mo...]]

Thank you all . I really appreciate it . MM

[[mo...]]

I did my first cut 4 days ago  on 8/21. Had some moderate WD symptoms for three- four days not too bad . Stabilized after about 4 days . So I think my 10 day plan between each cut is reasonable .Been kinda apprehensive how my taper is going to go. I know everybody is different but can I can assume there will be a certain amount of WD when I make each cut ? MM 

[[aw...]]

Hello, Jackie Brown:

 

Unfortunately, I have a lot of experience with lorazepam. I'm really sorry to hear about your daughter, but I think maybe she's not as far down the bad road as you fear. It sounds like her use became daily only recently, though of course you don't know. Until she tells you.

 

In any case, I feel pretty sure that your daughter is not in a good place right now to begin a taper. Starting a taper with lots of symptoms but without a clear plan or solid support is how many people have failed tapers. Then the next taper is harder because of that failure.

 

IMO, Becky can get stability by dividing her daily dose (if she's taking it daily) into 3 equal portions and taking them 8 hours apart. It's very important dose regularly. This will stabilize the amount of lorazepam in her body in a few days and her symptoms should lessen. Meanwhile, the two of you can look for a "benzo-wise" doctor to help with what sounds like it may be a short, uncomplicated taper. I certainly hope so.

 

Aweigh

[[ja...]]

Thank you Aweigh, Ive got to get her on the same page. She might be to scared to do anything before her wedding may of 2014. I'm not sure if I can get her to start now. Ill see, thanks for your compassion.

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

[[aw...]]

You're welcome. May 2014 is 9 months away. Maybe she could be done with her tape by then.

 

aweigh

[[ce...]]

Thank you Aweigh, Ive got to get her on the same page. She might be to scared to do anything before her wedding may of 2014. I'm not sure if I can get her to start now. Ill see, thanks for your compassion.

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

I would say be firm and convince her.  Prove to her that she needs to taper in order to be healthy and to have a full life with her husband.  You sure do not want for her to get married and get pregnant and then have to cold turkey off benzo's.  Better to get it over and done with now before the wedding.  Otherwise, there will always be 100 reasons not to get free of this.  As long as you are bound to benzo's, you are not truly free and you will never be truly healthy.

[[mo...]]

I am taking my Ativan doses 4 times a day 10 day intervals . I can't believe how well I am doing on this plan. I will do my next cut in a few day down to 0.5  I have learned much on this site and I am thankful to everybody's help . My main challenge after this will be using my Gemini Scale to make cuts from .125 to .625 since I will not have the option of using a compound pharmacy . Listen to your body always stabilize before the next cut! I hope the lower doses go this smooth. I have found that my prescription for propranolol .5 mg's twice a day has helped my WD symptoms . I take this drug for Akathisia not for blood pressure. I may ask my Dr to increase that dose to four times a day. I did read in Dr Ashton information that this is one of the few drugs prescribed to help withdraw symptoms. 

[[mo...]]

I guess I am learning as I go . Learning  these about up and downs . I thought I was doing really good then I crashed. SX extreme anxiety. I know its going to be hard on me because of having PTSD and wd's at the same time. I am probably one of million veterans that are going through the same thing. I know that from a assortment AD's , Psyc meds and benzo's over the years from the VA has probably done some CNS damage. I feel lucky to have found this site. I have learned so much here.

[[Al...]]

Mountainman, don't think of it as damage,..more like artificially suppressed.

 

You will get through this and it will take time and courage. We already know you have courage so just take the time it needs to re-adjust your brain by slowly backing off these drugs.

 

How fast or slow we go is irrelevant as long as we know the path and take it.

 

The rewards will last a lifetime!

 

Hang in there.

 

 

[[mo...]]

Thank you All Tied Up, I really appreciate the words of encouragement . I tend to get negative at times . Keeping a good attitude is very important . You are right the is a light at the end of this tunnel . There are thousands of use veterans with long term on and off Benzo addiction through the VA . Have to keep it in perspective  on why we are in treatment at the VA in the first place .

[[aw...]]

Here's a link to my newly-revised, newly-posted wet/dry taper method:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.phptopic=89360.msg1152134#msg1152134

 

I dare to hope it's somewhat clearer than the first revision and that there is information of value to Ativan taperers in it. If this link is an off-topic, unallowed post, tell me and I'll delete it.

 

Aweigh

 

 

[[mo...]]

Aweigh , I have been using the dry cut method since I started tapering .  Lorazapam 0.05 mg each pill weighs approximately 0.068 on my gemini scale.  I have been using a pill cutter to get my 4 doses. My next cut will be 4 doses of .125  Pill cutter isn't that accurate and I but I understand using the same pill I will get the same amount of dose in a 24 hour period. I was planing to use my scale all the way to end of my taper. Using simple math dividing my my pill using my scale. What I am asking where is it going to be problematic ? I am using cedartree formula to taper. When I get to the .0625 and .0312  doses ? These doses can't be accurately weighed out on my scale by using a 0.05 mg pill ?  The Doc isn't giving me much help except to give me enough medication to complete my taper. No compounding pharmacy or liquid . I asking this because it seems your converting to liquid is a bit too much for me.

[[Ma...]]

HI Mountain Man,

 

Aweigh has some sort of lab and chemistry back round.  Most of us don't.

 

It really should not be up to us as patients to have to become lab practitioners to get off a drug.  That is not right or fair.

 

But, nothing about this is fair.    However there are people who are paid to do this kind of thing, compounding pharmacists, who can make preparations for you, such as liquids and compounding pills. 

 

The reasons for not using them, don't make a whole lot of sense.  There was someone on here,  BenzoDownLately, and he was pretty adamant about this, that there is no reason why compounded meds made by pharmacists should not be available to us.

 

Yes just keep using the scale.  Aweigh has the education and the experience to make his preparation.  The scale will be fine.  Do not worry about putting on a white lab coat and starting your own "Breaking Bad" show. 

 

Just go with the scale that is fine.

 

 

 

 

[[mo...]]

Thanks Mairin ,  I appreciate your informative input as always . It would be nice if our VA hospital would be a little more accommodating . But considering how may Veterans they are serving now is understandable . thanks again MM

[[aw...]]

Hello, MountainMan:

 

Thanks for the reply. I took a look at Cedar's "Possible Ativan taper" on her buddie blog ("You will heal too!"  ) and was very impressed. The numbers are carefully worked out to be as balanced as possible--this is what my dry cut taper should have looked like. I do think that 50% reductions every 2 weeks might be too harsh for me. Cedar's suggestions preceding the dose table are very good too, especialy her attitude that you can definitely taper from Ativan directly. I certainly hope to do that. I do see one problem in the weighing, which I'll get to in a bit.

 

I remember 0.5 mg (there is a typo in the first line of your post) Ativan tabs weighing about 45 mg, so I got out my trusty Gemini, calibrated it and checked the calibration with reference weights. Then I weighed 20 1/2 mg tabs and divided by 20. I got 44.5 mg. You might want to re-site your balance, replace the battery, calibrate it a couple of times and see if you get something around 50 mg. If you have a friend of a friend who has access to a fancy balance, just weigh 5 pieces of Al foil in the weight range you'll be using and you'll have a set of reference weights for free. Also, balances are much less accurate at the exreme ends of their weighing ranges, which is where we're weighing. Put a dime under or in the plastic pan and re-zero. Now you're weighing in the gram range, not the milligram range.

 

If we use 50 mg as the average weight of a 0.5 mg tablet, then the tabs are about 1% Ativan by weight. If you are weighing pill fragments directly, to get a 0.0625 mg dose (1/8 of a tab) you would need to weigh 6.25 mg. I think this is right near the lower limit of the balance--the weight that you can get the same result for every time. I have 2 and 5 mg Class A fractional weights; the 5mg will usually register as 4.4-5.5. Sometimes it won't "move the needle". The 2 mg weight does not register. This is typical with balances--you can read them more accurately than they can weigh. A clinical thermometer doesn't measure to +/- 0.2 deg, either

 

So, I don't think I could weigh 0.0312 mg doses (3.12 mg of tablet) of Ativan on my balance. I'd have to jump at .0625, which is maybe not so bad. I prefer a choice. Personally, I plan to taper well past that point, if I can. I don't blame you for not wanting to learn a whole new taper at the end of your taper  Dry cutting is simpler. I think I'd go by sx; if I got increasing sx I'd look at measurment as a possible source of error. If not, good for you.

 

It just occured to me that you could probably divide a weighed 0.0625 mg dose rather accurately by eye, putting two piles next to one another and making them equal. When I tried this and checked the results by weighing, I was usually <10% off.

 

I have added a paragraph to the method intro in response to your excellent questions.

 

Aweigh

 

 

 

[[Ma...]]

Mountain Man,

 

Cedar got off ativan using compounded pills.  I just got them in .0625 doses.  They are capsules filled with powder.  I have not used them yet, but will in the future.  I will let you know how that goes.

 

It probably is more accurate to get a pharmacist to compound those doses, because it is true that the pills don't have the drug evenly distributed throughout the pill.  HOWEVER, that being said, many people have gotten off ativan by cutting pills.

 

I know this is not fair, you should be able to get treatment from the VA, but, things being as they are, which is NOT FAIR, perhaps you can find a doc like I did, a shrink that does not take insurance, and just pay out of pocked for the rest of this journey.  It is a pretty significant thing to do, and trying to get the VA to accomodate you, well, I know what that would probably be like.

 

My shrink is very willing now to give me compounded pills or probably liquid if I want, because I have shown him I am serious about getting down.  And there is NO REASON for him not to allow me to get compounded meds.  What is the point of denying someone that if there are pharmacists out there that do this for a living?

 

Just something to consider. 

 

Perhaps you can search for P2's blog, she got off ativan by cutting pills, she was right where we are right now at this time last year.

 

Hugs.

 

 

[[An...]]

Hi Mairin,

I am sorry that you are going through some difficulty 

But look how far you have come, and how much you have accomplished ..!! Soon, you will be done, and that will be a blessing ..All this distress will be a distant memory.

Mairin, maybe it will be a good idea to not cut tomorrow ..Maybe wait a bit ..But you know best ..I wanted to thank you for your response,  I appreciated it, very much ..

When you feel up to it, please tell me what type of pill cutter you are using ..A beloved friend here just said she used the blue plastic pill cutter from the pharmacy ..I have that one too, but would like to know if there are other options.

Wishing you well ..Be safe ..

Love, Anu

[[An...]]

Hello everyone,

I made my first Ativan cut over 3 weeks ago, and have been holding, hoping to stabilize.

The problem is that I have been experiencing relentless naucea.

I have tried ginger tea, and it works for a bit, but then the naucea is back.

I wonder if anyone has gone through this, what is the cause of it, is it WD?  and what have you found to work for some relief ..

Thank you tor any help.

Wishing peacefulness to every one, Anu

[[On...]]

I asked this question on the main support board and I'll just copy and paste it here and hopefully someone can chime in?:

 

 

 

 

My dose as seen in my signature has my morning dose at .5mg+.25mg. And the remaining three doses of the day are .5mg

 

My question is can I switch my morning dose of .5mg+.25mg (the highest dose) to my night dose without hassle? ie Confusing my body/putting it through any undue stress?

 

I want the largest dose at night as it seems like it makes more sense. But somehow I've done it this way.

 

 

Thanks to all,

Oneday