How to switch from double to single dose diazepam. Need help.

[[Do...]]

Hi,

I was already discussing this in another thread, but was someone else´s thread and i really need to figure out how to do this.

I am currently taking 1.85mg diazepeam twice a day, every 12 hours but my daytime dose is giving me a hard time with very low blood preasure, loightheadness, sedation, fatigue, etc

This is my explanation from the other thread:

"i start to feel better during evenings and feel much better, even symptom free at night before my pre-bed dose, that dose does not affect me much and i sleep quite well but around 2-3 hours before my daytime dose i feel quite bad (muscle twitches, headaches, etc) but after i take the dose i feel worse for a few hours, i get low blood presure and feel lightheadness, over sedated, fatigued, brain fog and sometines even some anxiety that start to fade in the evenings and disapear at night and so it goes every day."

So some BB like @[Ch...] and @[re...] wisely adviced to switch to single dose.

I think they are right but i cant seem to have enough mind clarity to think how to do it right.

I was thinking, maybe, taper daytime dose at double speed and increase the night dose instead, for example; instead of taper 0.01mg from daytime dose, go 0.02mg  and updose 0.01mg the night dose.

Another option is reinstate some of the dose i already tapered from the night dose and remove it from the daytime dose, for example; reinstate my 1.85mg dose at night to 2 or 2.5mg and remove the difference form the daytime dose and drop it 0.15mg or 0.65mg (wich i think would be to much).

And finally, what scares me the most, abruptly remove the daytime dose and add the to the night dose, wich would double it and doesnt make me feel to confident.

Anyhow i resumed today my taper after a hold and i am only tapering form the daytime dose but it will take months to remove it or at least remove most of it.

Help, advices and experiences will be highly appreciated.

Thanks

Edited April 22 by [Do...]

[[Ka...]]

Hello @[Do...] I can see the dilemma. I’m wondering if the day dose is affected by cortisol. 
No expert but was on a low dose diazepam.
First question is how long have you been on diazepam?

how long & what taper method are you following?

are you taking any other medication? 

Edited April 22 by [Ka...]

[[Do...]]

Just now, [[K...] said:

Hello @[Do...] I can see the dilemma. I’m wondering if the day dose is affected by cortisol. 
No expert but been was on a low dose diazepam.
First question is how long have you been on diazepam?

how long & what taper method are you following?

are you taking any other medication? 

Hi, thanks for the reply

I have been on diazepam since march 1st, switched from lorapezam that i took for nearly 3 months.

i started diazepam 5mg, 2.5mg twice a day when i got rid of the lorazepam and went cut and hold to 4mg, 2mg twice a day without any problems, i hit the wall after trying to go to 3.5mg so i reinstated 4mg and swithed to liquid diazepam wich i have been tapering since april 3rd, i was tapereing both doses alternatively, only one every day and the other dose the next day, i tapered 0.14mg from each dose, total of 0.28mg at a rate of 0.02mg a day.

I am not taking any other medications.

[[Ka...]]

Right. I should have said I hope you have a provider assisting you & monitoring your very low blood pressure. 

I would not be inclined to abruptly double the night dose. Rather I would personally aim for a slow taper across.
 

Your amounts you are considering seem reasonable. It’ll be trial & error. (I’ve done the lorazepam to diazepam thing). I’ve today watched a video with Angie Peacock & Mark Horowitz that has really influenced my thinking. It is essentially that it takes time for our meds changes to catch up with us. Small adjustments always work best & for your system to adapt to the switch to night dose only the approach is sensible to try small amounts. 
I’d go cautiously especially bearing in mind blood pressure, fatigue etc which I hope will improve for you. 

I hope this may be helpful & also hoping that you’ll get feedback from others. 
 

[[re...]]

I am just telling you MY situation here Dolvian cause I did just that!!!!!!!!!!

I just switched it ALL in one swoop and it looks like our methods and experiences were similar from the 5 mg starting dose. 

It was just tooooo much to take 5 mg all at once and made me a zombie so I would split in half just like you and take 2.5 mg around say 4:30 PM  then take the other 2.5 mg maybe somewhere between 9-12 at night. I just would eye it and do a mini cut off some of  I think my first dose. But then I just said "to heck with all this" and had my prescriber write me the 2 mg pills after only being on the 5mg and the inaccurate cutting for about two months  and went down to one 4mg (2x2mg tablets dissolved in water) dose at once  just like that cause i got frustrated of the way I was doing it. I went pretty heavy from here at .02 per day water micro taper for 18 days and got hit significantly, but then I held for awhile and started to incorporate small holds. I think you could just switch all at once.

IMO Valium is extremely forgiving in this regard. So many times I have dosed at different times and haven't been super strict about it. One time I even forgot to dose and about 12 hours later I took it and never had issues. The only thing I think is that can confuse your nervous system is missing a dose completely or up dosing,, or even a brand name change. Or of course a rapid reduction schedule.  But that is it. It sounds like you have the liquid Diazepam so this should even be EASIER to do this. 

That cut to 3.5 was a bit steep for you as those previous cuts caught up to ya and you got slammed and it is working on you and scaring you as that cut caused you some coded fear. Weather we wanna realize or not. The brain doesn't forget this chemical trauma we have been altered by.  It is a very sneaky drug this Valium and it catches up to you like a snake in the grass. But  now that you have switched to liquid Valium micro taper you will be fine I really believe if you just want to make the jump and combine both in one swoop.  The long life of Valium should make this change with your micro tapering a non event for you.

Edited April 22 by [re...]

[[Ch...]]

2 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

I think you could just switch all at once. IMO Valium is extremely forgiving in this regard.

@[Do...] I agree with this advice.

 

[[re...]]

I don't think you will get withdrawal per se. You may get drowsy and a big fog headed though when you wake up in the morning, but this can be remedied with coffee or just plain time as this switch takes effect. 

[[Do...]]

26 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

The only thing I think is that can confuse your nervous system is missing a dose completely or up dosing,

Thanks again for your reply.

My fear is if switching all at once would be like updosing. You nailed it, bad waves make us scared and fear to make a bad step.

 

 

[[Ch...]]

1 minute ago, [[D...] said:

My fear is if switching all at once would be like updosing.

You could just scoot your daytime dose closer and closer to your evening dose...until they merge This may help to alleviate the fear you're feeling.

[[re...]]

No problem. Glad I could help a bit. 

[[Do...]]

Just now, [[r...] said:

No problem. Glad I could help a bit. 

I really appreciate it. I think i am at a very delicate stage that will decide the success o failure of my taper have to be precise in my decisions at this low doses.

[[re...]]

Chester makes a REAL good point!!!!!!! Maybe start putting them closer and closer together by 1-2 hour increments daily until you have them together in one dose. I think this is a great plan. BUT..........I would just stop the micro cuts until you get them together. 

[[Ch...]]

Just now, [[D...] said:

I think i am at a very delicate stage that will decide the success o failure of my taper have to be precise in my decisions at this low doses.

Do you fear a danger of some sort, or the discomfort of it all?

Valium, with its long half-life, is pretty forgiving of imprecision.

Take a deep breath, friend. I know this is scary, but you're going to be fine. You're so close to getting off altogether!

[[Do...]]

Just now, [[C...] said:

Do you fear a danger of some sort, or the discomfort of it all?

Valium, with its long half-life, is pretty forgiving of imprecision.

Take a deep breath, friend. I know this is scary, but you're going to be fine. You're so close to getting off altogether!

I dont feel danger at this rate of tapering is more the fear of messing it up and failing. I didnt have to start my taper at high dose like many buddies and i just want this to go well and end asap.

[[Ch...]]

1 minute ago, [[D...] said:

the fear of messing it up and failing.

You seem to be tapering very responsibly. You aren't "messing up" anything.

I tapered 60mg of Valium. I think you're down to just under 4mg? At that point, I was tapering at a rate of .5mg every 14th day. You're going slower, which is fine. You can also speed up if you wish, without danger. You just have to gauge your own tolerance for the discomfort that may (or may not)  come. Either way, you aren't going to "mess up."  

[[re...]]

Yes THIS is very important Dolvian. Me and you are rare in that we were only on 5 lousy mg and the cuts were different for us than say a very high dose user that can usually cut like crazy in the beginning.

This is just a theory but small dose users for some reason seem extra sensitive and need to really go easy and the early start of the taper will help them in the end as the amount of drug occupying the brain is much less. So more of the brain has to get used during the taper and we don't have the luxury of the starting .5-1 mg cuts in the start of our tapers as the high dose users. 

[[Do...]]

Just now, [[C...] said:

You seem to be tapering very responsibly. You aren't "messing up" anything.

I tapered 60mg of Valium. I think you're down to just under 4mg? At that point, I was tapering at a rate of .5mg every 14th day. You're going slower, which is fine. You can also speed up if you wish, without danger. You just have to gauge your own tolerance for the discomfort that may (or may not)  come. Either way, you aren't going to "mess up."  

As i mentioned in the othe thread, i feel lucky  cause i seem to heal fast after short waves i get windows for many days (windows dont mean No Symptons but i can stand them) but i am not fully functional, i can shower, eat, make laundry and small things but, i am mostly housebound and cant drive or walk much due to my over sedation, low blood preasure, lightheadness, fatigue, brain fog etc.

[[re...]]

I think Dolvian is correct in his observation of being very careful in the early stages. This will help you in the end I believe. And we cannot discount his AD that Dolvian cold turkied and eventually healed from. .It is STILL a major factor and the brain now is like "oh boy here we go again" but this time a BENZO so whoa you gotta be careful to me and can never be too cautious and it may be a more sensitive taper due to the prior AD crap. 

[[Ch...]]

Just now, [[D...] said:

As i mentioned in the othe thread, i feel lucky  cause i seem to heal fast after short waves i get windows for many days (windows dont mean No Symptons but i can stand them) but i am not fully functional, i can shower, eat, make laundry and small things but, i am mostly housebound and cant drive or walk much due to my over sedation, low blood preasure, lightheadness, fatigue, brain fog etc.

I had all of that, too. Heck, I didn't drive for three years. After I was completely off, it took another 6-8 months before I would drive. But truly, it all steadily improves once you're off.

[[Do...]]

4 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

Yes THIS is very important Dolvian. Me and you are rare in that we were only on 5 lousy mg and the cuts were different for us than say a very high dose user that can usually cut like crazy in the beginning.

This is just a theory but small dose users for some reason seem extra sensitive and need to really go easy and the early start of the taper will help them in the end as the amount of drug occupying the brain is much less. So more of the brain has to get used during the taper and we don't have the luxury of the starting .5-1 mg cuts in the start of our tapers as the high dose users. 

This is so accurate bud, you just nailed you thoughts as if you reading my mind.

I think you really got my point.

[[re...]]

I so get where you are coming from Dolvian

I mean look at poor xray. He was it for only 3 months and just stopped and was like SLAMMED for years. I think even short term use should be tapered as much as you can take and as slow as you can take.  

BUT kind of with Chester as well and not TOO drawn out as this can turn psychological on you and now you have a whole other thing to deal with. 

[[Do...]]

3 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

I think Dolvian is correct in his observation of being very careful in the early stages. This will help you in the end I believe. And we cannot discount his AD that Dolvian cold turkied and eventually healed from. .It is STILL a major factor and the brain now is like "oh boy here we go again" but this time a BENZO so whoa you gotta be careful to me and can never be too cautious and it may be a more sensitive taper due to the prior AD crap. 

You nailed again bud.

But also after 8 months of a AD WD i had 3 months of daily huge panic atacks and giant anxiety that i could overcome with an intensive CBT, it was these 3 months that made me take lorazepam daily and end up here, so its been nearly 15 months of nightmare already and now this, got me at the weakest, and worst moment possible.

[[re...]]

I know it. All these drugs are so dangerous and doctors keep adding more and more crap instead of saying "you know there are scientific studies that show in 16 week trials..... EXERCISE is just as good as prozac for depression and anxiety" It blows my mind how no one in the...........ahem..........."professional space" will mention these things. But of course why would they when there is no coin in this approach. You mean something you can do for FREE!!!!!!!!! and it benefit. What a concept. 

[[Do...]]

5 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

BUT kind of with Chester as well and not TOO drawn out

I dont really understand the meaning of this. Sorry not an english speaker.

[[re...]]

Like not a super long of a taper like years. But a more slow yet steady one where you are making progress in getting OFF the drug. Cause ultimately that should be the goal.